# Champion 100520 Inverter - Tri Fuel Kit Guidance or Shop



## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

So this weekend I finally managed to do my interlock and outside outlet box. My panel was full, I had to move and consolidate few breakers around, install a main braker and drill some holes. Good end result and no fire in the house 

Next is puting the tri-fuel MSK3101 - MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL kit on this baby. Few questions:

1. This is brand new generator and I don't plan puting gas in it, just keep on NG only. Is that ok? I don't wanna deal with the storage issues with gas and all that. I have an NG line drop by the outlet box.
2. Anyone have any videos or personal experience with installing the MSK3101 kit on these Champion 100520 ? Does this kit actually works with NG? Please share
3. I am in Houston, TX. I was wondering what kind of shops or people may be able to do this tri-fule job for me and test it to make sure all works? I won't mind paying the right skill set.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Nice job. Do you have 2 whole home surge protectors installed? The breaker that feeds the surge protector should be located as close to the main breaker as possible. In your case the top 2 spaces on the left.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

NG rocks on gen sets.
make sure to over size the pipe runs for future expansion.
i like 1 inch ID up to the gen then reduce down to 3/4 full flow ball valves.
make sure to use ngk iridium spark plug gaped at .022 or 22 thou.
and do not pinch the hoses...
i like the nash fuels load blocks better...
easy add on!
pm if you need more tips!


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Nice job. Do you have 2 whole home surge protectors installed? The breaker that feeds the surge protector should be located as close to the main breaker as possible. In your case the top 2 spaces on the left.


THANK you and THANK you Sir. The built in surge protector is really a POS so I disconected it and replaced with the Siemens one. I know it looks funny and confusing


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

iowagold said:


> NG rocks on gen sets.
> make sure to over size the pipe runs for future expansion.
> i like 1 inch ID up to the gen then reduce down to 3/4 full flow ball valves.
> make sure to use ngk iridium spark plug gaped at .022 or 22 thou.
> ...


I wish I knew about the nash fules brand, Is not talked much? Should I return the Motor Snorkel one and go with the nash-fule?









Tri-Fuel Propane Natural Gas Generator Champion 100520 420cc 8750-Watt


***IMPORTANT*** MAY COME WITH DIFFERENT BRAND REGULATOR DEPENDING ON STOCK FOR LOW PRESSURE KITS 9-13"wc SUPPLY PRESSURE IS REQUIRED, IF YOUR SUPPLY PRESSURE IS LOWER PLEASE LET US KNOW SO WE CAN SHIP WITH A REGULATOR COMPATABLE WITH THE LOWER PRESSURE***IMPORTANT***APPLICATION: TRI-FUEL...



nash-fuel.myshopify.com


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

The snorkel is a great component. It places The fuel source right at the Venturi of the carburetor. A basic adapter like Nash fuels, although good is less ideal. The load block on the other hand, iowagold does prefer Nashes.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> THANK you and THANK you Sir. The built in surge protector is really a POS so I disconected it and replaced with the Siemens one. I know it looks funny and confusing


I see, What was the issue with your Eaton surge protector? It does fit quite nicely in the panel. I have the newer Eaton chsptultra with the blue outline.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> I see, What was the issue with your Eaton surge protector? It does fit quite nicely in the panel. I have the newer Eaton chsptultra with the blue outline.


The Eaton never worked properly. I got so many home electronics friend arround the house, was not eeven funny. My HVAC board fried 2 times, my dishwwasher board, my dryer board as well, even my cooktop board. Only the boards will fry, nothing else. I think it was a combination of bad electrical distribution system in my new neigborohood and the EATON surgeprotector. I tried a claim with EATON but they make it so hard that I gived up. I just disconected the builtin Eaton and plug in the Siemens. With Siemens never had any electronics issue for the past 3 years. All my computer and AV stuff goes through UPS's but the house stuff needs protection s well.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

never have had issues with the better new version of the eaton surge protection if they are installed right.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

iowagold said:


> never have had issues with the better new version of the eaton surge protection if they are installed right.


Mine came with the house when built 12 years ago and I assume it was installed right. It looked like it was wired correct.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ahh
on the eaton surge
the new 2021 versions work well.
they use a 50 amp breaker now.

and all of the whole house surge protection units need to be checked and replaced after a BIG hit.
I keep spares on hand as we get hit hard here in Iowa with lightning.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> The Eaton never worked properly. I got so many home electronics friend arround the house, was not eeven funny. My HVAC board fried 2 times, my dishwwasher board, my dryer board as well, even my cooktop board. Only the boards will fry, nothing else. I think it was a combination of bad electrical distribution system in my new neigborohood and the EATON surgeprotector. I tried a claim with EATON but they make it so hard that I gived up. I just disconected the builtin Eaton and plug in the Siemens. With Siemens never had any electronics issue for the past 3 years. All my computer and AV stuff goes through UPS's but the house stuff needs protection s well.


I see, the updated Eaton has worked out well for me so far. Siemens big 140kva unit is the largest residential protector available from what I’ve seen. Pricy but good Stuff.


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## NJGiants (12 mo ago)

JohnWhicker said:


> So this weekend I finally managed to do my interlock and outside outlet box. My panel was full, I had to move and consolidate few breakers around, install a main braker and drill some holes. Good end result and no fire in the house
> 
> Next is puting the tri-fuel MSK3101 - MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL kit on this baby. Few questions:
> 
> ...


First Post! Long time reader.

I purchased the exact Champion Generator 100520 and then installed the Motor Snorkel MSK3101 with the intent to never run it on gasoline and just run it using natural gas. I actually had the Firman 7500W Tri-Fuel generator from Costco sitting in my garage in the box, but because it took 2 months to line up the electrician and plumber I then decided after reading a lot of posts in this forum to return the Firman and that I should really go with an inverter type generator. Due to cost and size, I chose the Champion open frame Inverter 100520. If you read the Motor Snorkel instructions, they want you to run the generator with gasoline for at least 5 hours to seat the rings before running it on NG. I confirmed this when I spoke to them. I ran 2 tanks of non-ethanol gas through the generator changing the oil after the first hour and again after the second tank of gas, switching to synthetic oil. I really love the generator, not too loud, started on the first try using gasoline and the conversion to use natural gas was really easy with the motor snorkel. Followed the instructions and got the generator to start on natural gas on the first try and then put a load of about 4000 watts on it and dialed in the NG adjustment. It was really very easy because the generator is so open.

I decided that I did not want to drill holes in the frame, so I mounted the regulator on a strip of wood and used hose clamps to attach it to the frame. I had an electrician install a 50 Amp line to my panel with an interlock because the generator has to be about 70 feet from my panel box. I had a 1-inch gas line run to my deck where my gas grill is hooked up and put in two quick disconnects, 1 for the grill and 1 for the generator. I then run a 3/4-inch line to the generator. The 3/4-inch line is really big, but the generator really runs great on NG and I wanted to make sure I was getting enough gas to the generator. It takes a bit to purge the 3/4-inch line, but it starts right up once you get gas to the generator. The motor snorkel works! I can run everything in my house with the exception of my 2 central A/C units. I have a mini-split in the basement and it runs that along with the rest of the house without any surging. All my appliances are NG with gas boiler for heat, so my electrical demands are not high so even with the decreased output running on NG the generator has run my house without any problems on 2 4-hour test runs. 

I have attached a few pictures of the Motor Snorkel attached and running. I did convert the Generator to Floating Neutral which was very easy and I have since added a tachometer and hour meter. Running on NG the sweet spot is around 3450 rpm on my tach under load. I also have a trickle charge to the battery while it sits in my garage to keep the battery healthy. ￼


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

@ NJGiants

Man THANKS so much to write such a helpful and elaborate post Sir. Really really helpful. I just recived the Motor Snorkel MSK3101 just today and ready to install it. I will adventure myself as I think I know my way around tools  Any tips? things to look for.
I am glad you give me the heads up on running the generator for 5 hours on non-ethanol, perfect tip that I wouldn't know if you didn't tell us  I will do that as well.
I already did the interllock myself and a 50 Am breaker as well so I am good there.
As for NG line mine is a 1/2" and about 20 foot run so it may not work  I will need to pull a 1" from the gas metter which is very close with my generator location, about 6 FT distance.

Please help me a bit with the convertion of the Generator to Floating Neutral? What is that and do I need to do it as well? I have no backround or understanding on thiss matter.

Other than that thanks again partner and good luck with the cold uo north


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> @ NJGiants
> 
> Man THANKS so much to write such a helpful and elaborate post Sir. Really really helpful. I just recived the Motor Snorkel MSK3101 just today and ready to install it. I will adventure myself as I think I know my way around tools  Any tips? things to look for.
> I am glad you give me the heads up on running the generator for 5 hours on non-ethanol, perfect tip that I wouldn't know if you didn't tell us  I will do that as well.
> ...


1/2 hose limits you to about 6ft on NG. 20ft of 3/4“ hose will be sufficient. Definitely unbond the neutral for use feeding your homes panel.

The neutral bond is a connection from ground to neutral. If feeding an electric panel in your home there should be only one bond and that’s in your main panel or service entrance.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> 1/2 hose limits you to about 6ft on NG. 20ft of 3/4“ hose will be sufficient. Definitely unbond the neutral for use feeding your homes panel.
> 
> The neutral bond is a connection from ground to neutral. If feeding an electric panel in your home there should be only one bond and that’s in your main panel or service entrance.


Copy that Sir. I will look for instructions for this Champion and I think I will be good  Thanks much

Yeah I need to get me a plumber and run a new NG line. When I built the house I told them the line is for a generator but they run just a 1/2" through the wall and I didn't catch it. And I had to pay extra for that run  Building a house is an adventure with so many moving parts and contractors cutting corners and ready to run to the next job


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

JohnWhicker said:


> I wish I knew about the nash fules brand, Is not talked much? Should I return the Motor Snorkel one and go with the nash-fule?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Of all the companies I have contacted. U.S Carbs is the most helpful and responsive. They claim no loss of power when using alternative fuels to gasoline. I think the claim is based upon how they inject the fuel into the carb. Nash fuels products look more bullet proof. Rubber and plastic vs metal, I'm guessing the metal wins. Nash has an extensive parts catalog. However, it took Nash fuels a few weeks to respond to my request for parts to try. Motorsnorkel/U.S carbs was same day every time. One of my friends has a dual fuel generator that seems to reduce power on propane. I'm not seeing that at all with my kit. It's roaring on propane with the Motorsnorkel. Without testing the power output, I have no way to test their claim.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Even with the best snorkel design, propane will still cause engines to droop relatively more than gasoline under load simply because it has less energy density. Propane also has a higher octane, so even if you richen up the mixture, it won't burn fast enough to be of use to the engine. In fact that's bad, as excess fuel will continue to burn as it leaves the exhaust port, overheating the exhaust valve and causing the exhaust pipes to glow cherry-red. It is then, in the interest of prolonging engine life, that propane is mixed on the lean side. But even that has its downside when overdone, as it will lead to excess engine droop at the higher end of demand.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

OrlyP said:


> Even with the best snorkel design, propane will still cause engines to droop relatively more than gasoline under load simply because it has less energy density. Propane also has a higher octane, so even if you richen up the mixture, it won't burn fast enough to be of use to the engine. In fact that's bad, as excess fuel will continue to burn as it leaves the exhaust port, overheating the exhaust valve and causing the exhaust pipes to glow cherry-red. It is then, in the interest of prolonging engine life, that propane is mixed on the lean side. But even that has its downside when overdone, as it will lead to excess engine droop at the higher end of demand.


 I know! But that's not what I am seeing. Heavy load, 4 ton AC, pool pump, fridge, freezer, 8 antenna high-power wifi router, computer, house lights, and various other always on devices, and NO drop of frequency or reduced speed of engine vs gasoline. My friend has a dual fuel generator and when he switches to propane, it starts struggling. I guess at max load is where I would see my generator struggle. But for my household, the demand I am putting on the generator is the max load and it's blazin on propane. I didn't believe that would be the case at all. But... FAQs - Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Bulldogger said:


> I know! But that's not what I am seeing. Heavy load, 4 ton AC, pool pump, fridge, freezer, 8 antenna high-power wifi router, computer, house lights, and various other always on devices, and NO drop of frequency or reduced speed of engine vs gasoline. My friend has a dual fuel generator and when he switches to propane, it starts struggling. I guess at max load is where I would see my generator struggle. But for my household, the demand I am putting on the generator is the max load and it's blazin on propane. I didn't believe that would be the case at all. But... FAQs - Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion


My guess is that his DF setup wasn't properly dialed in. I had to really play around with the load block on my LP conversion so the generator doesn't struggle on heavy loads. I wanted it to be as lean as possible while supporting the heaviest load I throw at it. I can richen it up and never have to worry about the droop, but that's going to drastically reduce the service life of the engine.

Anyway, just saying that you can't cheat physics. All else being equal, propane will always perform a little worse than gasoline. It's just a question of how much worse... 5%? 15%? 30%? Maybe the generator is underrated and can actually load more than the published ratings?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

One issue is factory built dual fuel generators don’t have any fuel adjustment. One size does not fit all.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

OrlyP said:


> My guess is that his DF setup wasn't properly dialed in. I had to really play around with the load block on my LP conversion so the generator doesn't struggle on heavy loads. I wanted it to be as lean as possible while supporting the heaviest load I throw at it. I can richen it up and never have to worry about the droop, but that's going to drastically reduce the service life of the engine.
> 
> Anyway, just saying that you can't cheat physics. All else being equal, propane will always perform a little worse than gasoline. It's just a question of how much worse... 5%? 15%? 30%? Maybe the generator is underrated and can actually load more than the published ratings?


 His generator is a factory job. Generator is rated for 18,000 watts running and I only am running 12,500. But when my older 4-ton central air fires up, it's got to be significant starting watts and total watts.


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## NJGiants (12 mo ago)

JohnWhicker said:


> @ NJGiants
> 
> Man THANKS so much to write such a helpful and elaborate post Sir. Really really helpful. I just recived the Motor Snorkel MSK3101 just today and ready to install it. I will adventure myself as I think I know my way around tools  Any tips? things to look for.
> I am glad you give me the heads up on running the generator for 5 hours on non-ethanol, perfect tip that I wouldn't know if you didn't tell us  I will do that as well.
> ...



Glad I could help. Tips? I research stuff to death.

I think I looked at every YouTube video I could find to see what was done to install the Motor Snorkel. USCarburetion has a YouTube channel that has a bunch of videos. There is one from about 8 years ago showing the install of the Motor Snorkel. It's still relevant and worth watching. There are a lot of videos with Dr. Hew and I watched some of them because he talks about adjusting the NG flow to properly dial in the flow of the gas. I found them interesting and help make the installation easy. The actual install is really simple just follow the instructions. The removal of the air filter and installation of the snorkel takes less than 10 minutes, just remove the Champion gasket and insert the Snorkel, it takes the place of the gasket. I spent most of my time trying to get the regulator mounted with hose clamps and hide them because I didn't drill the frame. 

On the US Carburetion web site there is a page that you can figure out the length and size of pipe to deliver the amount of gas needed for the generator. My generator project started because I purchased a new grill last spring to replace an old Weber and then wasn't happy with the new grill. I determined the Weber only need 39K BTU's and the new Napoleon grill needed 89K BTU's and my pipe was only capable of delivering about 55K BTU's. I got the generator because I already was going to have to upgrade my gas line, so I went to a 1- inch pipe. The gas line cost as much as the grill. I figured I needed around 120,000 BTU's for the generator and my plumber determined that the new line can deliver at least 165,000 BTU's. 

Changing the generator to Floating Neutral was simple. I followed the Champion YouTube video for the 100519 model. Champion Help Center: Converting Your Generator to Floating Neutral (100519) - YouTube It's easy, just follow the directions in the video. Since your panel is grounded, you'll ground the generator through the panel. I always hook up the generator to the exterior outlet before starting it, so the generator is always grounded while it's operating.

I also learned a ton of information from this Forum. I can't tell you how many posts I have read here, likely thousands. There are a lot of smart people offering information here that are much smarter than I am and to them I say Thank you.

Good luck and it's really not brain surgery. Post pictures of your running generator.


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## Lumberjack (8 mo ago)

I watched a YouTube video of a Rigid 7000 generator conversion where he compares both gas and NG running his dryer which is almost maxing out the generator. Watch at about 13:00 for gas test and 15:00 for NG test where the generator still handles the dryer despite having reduced performance using NG. He felt the wattage was smoother on the MB75 and the engine was running better (not surging) on NG as he was able to dial in the air/fuel mixture.

How To Convert Your Generator to Natural Gas or Propane


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Lumberjack said:


> I watched a YouTube video of a Rigid 7000 generator conversion where he compares both gas and NG running his dryer which is almost maxing out the generator. Watch at about 13:00 for gas test and 15:00 for NG test where the generator still handles the dryer despite having reduced performance using NG. He felt the wattage was smoother on the MB75 and the engine was running better (not surging) on NG as he was able to dial in the air/fuel mixture.
> 
> How To Convert Your Generator to Natural Gas or Propane


I know it's not a scientific test but I think the video didn't account for at least a few things.... two major ones that I can come up with:

First, I'll start with the NG run. Although he was able to run the dryer, it did so at the expense of the frequency going way down to 56Hz. I'd be comfortable to about 59 or 58.5Hz, but 56Hz is too low and objectively, a fail.

Secondly, there's definitely something wrong with the carb on his gen when running on gas. That would account for the surging at high loads. Also, the light flickering means that the frequency is probably going way down to the low to mid-50Hz, so also a fail.

So my takeaway here is that, his generator is not quite tuned-up to run on gasoline well to make a proper comparison with running on NG. You can't cheat physics... NG has less energy density than gasoline. With everything setup correctly, gasoline would beat both NG and propane. But that's about the only advantage of gasoline when you factor in storage, economy, safety and in certain situations, availability.


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