# Parallel Problem / Inverter Generators



## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Guys, I have a Honda EU2200i and a Westinghouse iGen 2500 paralled with a Firman 1201. I am using a L5-30P to L14-30R adapter (2ft. cord) connected to a Reliance PB30. I've used this cord connection with a Generac iQ3500...no issues. All connections were made before starting the generators but I am not getting any power at the 10 circuit manual transfer switch. The 30 amp toggle on the Firman 1201 is in the "on position". The kit is a month old and this is the first time I have attempted to use it. I'm sure Firman will say they have not tested the 1201 with other manufacturers units but I've seen it parallel a EU2200i and iGen 2500 on YouTube. I haven't contacted Firman yet. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Tom


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## ronskal (Feb 18, 2021)

Since your parallel cables are not color coded- polarity reversed on these? 
I was able to parallel a 2000/1600W Yamaha with a 2200/1800W Pulsar (Westinghouse copy) and it worked. 
The slightly larger Pulsar needed to be started first or the Yamaha faulted.
Do you have Green lights on both?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

ronskal said:


> Since your parallel cables are not color coded- polarity reversed on these?
> I was able to parallel a 2000/1600W Yamaha with a 2200/1800W Pulsar (Westinghouse copy) and it worked.
> The slightly larger Pulsar needed to be started first or the Yamaha faulted.
> Do you have Green lights on both?


👍


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> 👍


I started the larger generator first then the Honda. No green lights on either. I'll reverse the cables tomorrow, Thanks for your reply.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

I was going to suggest the same thing. Reverse the parallel cables on one of the inverters and see if that solves the problem.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Thanks for your reply. I trust this is a connection issue and not a defective Firman unit. My gen sets are in our shed 50 feet from the house. Sleet here now so I'll work on it tomorrow. Regards, Tom


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

bad idea on the mix and match on inverter gen mfg's


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check to see if the gens are working as solo first.
that is a good place to start


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Each generator works flawlessly. Proven parallel connections with different manufacturer connections using the Firman 1201. I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks, Tom


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Deffinitly for the Honda, and possibly for the Westinghouse… Hot is on the right, neutral on the left.

You can confirm the connections by using a multimeter to check continuity through the parallel kit. I’m surprised both leads are black. Be sure to find the appropriate hot lead and label it on both sets of wires.

It’s not ideal to parallel different manufactures generators but its definitely feasible, just proceed with caution.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

I've paired a Champion inverter with a Wen of identical wattage with no issues. The caveat is pairing two inverters that have vastly different wattage outputs. As far as I know, inverter signals are not proprietary. The signals will sync up with each other regardless of branding.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

I reversed the parallel plugs on both generators and after starting, the green lights appear. The 30 amp toggle on the Firman 1201 is "on" but the manual transfer switch is not receiving electricity. I believe the Firman may be defective. Note the video from this link.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

You want to reverse the plugs on only one inverter, not both. If it's a polarity issue, it doesn't change anything if you reverse the plugs on both inverters.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Thank you. I'll try that in a few days. Surgery in the morning to blast a large kidney stone!😫


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

TomC said:


> Thank you. I'll try that in a few days. Surgery in the morning to blast a large kidney stone!😫


Been there. The procedure is not bad, but the days after are not fun when the stones turn into the rolling stones.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

I've had prostate removal (cancer) last February, 35 radiation treatments to kill cancer that spread to adjacent tissue, hernia repair in June 2021 and now my third kidney stone. Let the good times roll!


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Kidney stone extraction went well! Now back to my parallel problem. I reversed the plugs on the Honda and still not receiving power in my manual transfer switch. Since I am not using Firman inverter generators I don't expect any assistance from them. UGH!


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Glad to hear your procedure went well. 

The wiring connection box has no electronics in it. It's just wiring and a couple of outlets with fuses. I've heard of Firman kits being wired wrong from the factory. That could be causing the issues. I'd contact Firman and see if they will help you check, if for no other purpose than to rule it out as an issue.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Thanks....I will try that.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

TomC said:


> I believe the Firman may be defective.


You should be able to trace out the wiring using an ohmmeter with the Firman totally disconnected from the generators. Turn the breakers on and see if the plugs seem to be properly wired (I assume you can't open the Firman without voiding the warranty).

There is nothing magical inside the Firman unit. It is just plugs, wires, and breakers. The magical load sharing is done by the generators.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

I am waiting for a call from a Firman technician. The customer service rep was in over his head. We shall see. You are correct, the wiring diagram is pretty straight forward. Thanks


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

TomC said:


> I am waiting for a call from a Firman technician. The customer service rep was in over his head. We shall see. You are correct, the wiring diagram is pretty straight forward. Thanks


I have a Champion version of a parallel kit. I needed to open it up so I could replace one set of wires with ones compatible with my Wen inverter. It was pretty easy. The modified kit works fine.

Firman tech support is actually pretty good. They should be able to help you figure it out. Let them know you know some of the Firman boxes had issues with incorrect wiring and you're concerned you may have one.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Firman 1201 schematic...









I believe the LEDs are not shown correctly. One of them should be wired to the 14-50R, not both wired to the L5-30R


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

An interesting thing about the Firman 1201 wiring is that if the 50 amp breaker is not on, there will not be any power from the 30 amp receptacle either.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

If the schematics are incorrect, that could explain how the wiring could have been done wrong from the factory. From what I have read, once wired correctly, the kit works fine.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

I believe Tom needs to do another test with both breakers on since he is using the 30 amp receptacle.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

GenKnot said:


> An interesting thing about the Firman 1201 wiring is that if the 50 amp breaker is not on, there will not be any power from the 30 amp receptacle either.
> [/QUOTE
> I can see your finding. I'll turn the 50 and 30 amp circuits on tomorrow and see if that corrects the problem. Thanks


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## 3Dave (12 mo ago)

The crazy thing is the owners manual doesn't say anything about both breakers needing to be on to use the 30A outlet. They left you to figure that out on your own. It makes sense though. If they separated the two breakers you could possibly draw up to 80A if using both connectors. They drew the line at 50A. It's 50A combined.

The LEDs are convenience lamps for when working in the dark. Breakers can be off and the LEDs will still be on.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

3Dave said:


> The LEDs are convenience lamps for when working in the dark. Breakers can be off and the LEDs will still be on.


Yeah, that would make sense for how it's wired. I would have thought the LEDs would be used for indicating the receptacle had power as a safety issue.


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## 3Dave (12 mo ago)

I thought the same until I read the manual. Then it made sense.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

3Dave said:


> I thought the same until I read the manual. Then it made sense.


Maybe I need to download the manual. 😊

I noticed on their website that this unit only has a 120-day warranty. I guess they don't have a lot of faith in their product!


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## 3Dave (12 mo ago)

I'm not knocking it, it gets good reviews.

The 50A RV crowd sure likes them. A 50A RV can draw 50A per leg, A total of 100A (12KW). This thing can only provide 6KW before it trips the 50A breaker. One leg can pull 40A as long as the other is less than 10A. Only a few RV users that I have found have suffered from this.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Oh I'm sure that it is a good product, it just seems like they should give it a longer warranty like maybe one year.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i would be moving the 30 amp supply to the 30 amp breaker to ahead of the 50 amp connection...
but that is me!
lol!

and i would to have had 2 smaller breakers on the gen inlet para lines to match the gens.
just that extra bit of protection.

what is up on the 2 leds on the same leg feed?
or are they trying to show fault on breaker trip?


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## 3Dave (12 mo ago)

Think of the 2 LEDs as flashlights. Connect either gen and the lights come on regardless of either breaker position so you can see the panel in the dark.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Gotcha....This morning I will try operating the Firman with the 50 and 30 amp switch "on".


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

iowagold said:


> i would be moving the 30 amp supply to the 30 amp breaker to ahead of the 50 amp connection...
> but that is me!
> lol!
> 
> ...


I agree with that. The breaker and LED arrangements would not be what I would want.

I downloaded the manual, and it does not (just as 3Dave mentioned) indicate that the 50A breaker must be on in order to use the 30A outlet. They are probably getting a lot of customer calls because of that. The manual also does not indicate the purpose of the LEDs.

I would move the 30A breaker and also wire the LEDs across the plugs to indicate that they are powered. Yes, I understand what 3Dave is saying about limiting the unit to 50A, but Tom's gens cannot output that amount of power anyway. And, I don't buy the "convenience" of having the LEDs wired as they are since (to me anyway) it is misleading. I would want them to actually be telling me something useful and not just be nightlights.

Also, there should not be an issue with polarity when connecting to the gens. There is not such a thing as "neutral" or "hot" in a floating generator...it is just two wires that carry load current. To get a real neutral and hot, the gen would have to have a bonded neutral-ground which would establish a reference point for describing one wire as neutral and the other as hot. So, the video in post #12 is correct...it just doesn't matter how you connect the two plugs into a "floating neutral" gen.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

Parallel Problem Solved! Both the 50 amp and 30 amp toggles have to be in the "on" position for this kit. I ran all 10 circuits through the Reliance Manual Transfer Switch. Everything is working correctly. Thank you for all suggestions, recommendations and comments. Regards, Tom


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Good deal Tom! 

This is how I would rewire that thing if it were mine...


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Great update!

You would think the manual would mention that. Or that the tech would have known to try that before anything else.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

A Westinghouse, a Honda, and a firman walk into a bar.… Glad you got it figured out it.


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## 3Dave (12 mo ago)

I don't understand why you guys have such a desire to rewire this thing. It's fine (and safe) the way it is. Now Tom knows to flip both breakers up and leave them there.

I found the "Convenient Light" comment on Firman's website. An image of what they do below.


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

GenKnot said:


> Good deal Tom!
> 
> This is how I would rewire that thing if it were mine...
> View attachment 11079


Good idea for me after the warranty expires!


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## TomC (Apr 16, 2021)

3Dave said:


> I don't understand why you guys have such a desire to rewire this thing. It's fine (and safe) the way it is. Now Tom knows to flip both breakers up and leave them there.
> 
> I found the "Convenient Light" comment on Firman's website. An image of what they do below.
> 
> View attachment 11081


Yep!


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