# O'Keefe Generator From the 1940s



## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

I have three generators and live in the mountains. My daughter just bought a cabin nearby built in 1940. Evidently, the generator which came with it is also from the 1940s. The plate says O'Keefe, Los Angeles, with some number like 4004. It is diesel. I googled this and the closest thing is O'Keefe and Merritt, a defunct company. Evidently, service was done on it in 2007. It is huge, has a radiator, canister type oil filter. It is now a backup to a solar system. If I can't get it started it will be replaced by a Duromax dual fuel generator and run on propane. Does anybody know anything about O'Keefe and Merritt?


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## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)

This one ? Smokstac forums have some threads on these.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Mt.Power said:


> It is now a backup to a solar system. If I can't get it started it will be replaced by a Duromax dual fuel generator and run on propane.


Even if it doesn't start/run I would offer the suggestion to dig in to it and work on it to at least further diagnose issues. You may find it is easy to work on (the older stuff is more simply made by a long shot - so quite possible to be an easy repair, if any). However, old stuff can be a nightmare to find parts for, should you need parts, also. 

Outside of that - I would question what your definition is of "backup to a solar system". What kind of backup? Like if it is cloudy for 4 days and your batteries run out half way through the third day? Or if the solar system goes down completely in the winter time and you need to run the gen for a 2 month period before the weather improves enough to rebuild the solar system? 

In the former scenario - a bit of booster power to bridge periods of poor solar - the Duromax would probably get you by. 

In the latter scenario - prime power for a few months due to a down solar system and poor conditions to repair - the Duromax is the WRONG UNIT! If you were to try and go that way I would stack up about 3-4 of them, plus parts. Use 1 and keep up the maintenance religiously. When it goes down get out the 2nd. If you can get parts and fix the 1st one - put it back in service. Or, pull parts from one of the other units you have. Always have a new unit on stand-by (tested, of course, and proven by you - not fresh out of the box - just a new one you KNOW runs and doesn't get used).

Any 3600rpm air cooled engine generator is not a good choice for long-term power. There are tricks to get them to last longer, but the better idea is to start with a unit designed for the application. That is sort of like the difference between a car engine and a lawn mower engine. Yeah, you "could" put an air cooled lawn mower engine in a small car. Not that it would move very fast, but would you want to take that car across the country - could you trust that engine to hold up and get you there? There is a reason a car engine has a radiator (liquid cooled) and has pressurized oil. 

None of the small portable generators are going to be set up for long-term power. 

The kicker is - even the vast majority of the built-in home standby units aren't set up for long-term power. 

For example - the same engine and alternator that is on my 15kw unit is in a Winco PSS12H2W/F. Yes, they market it as both standby and prime. However, that is marketing jargon intended to make it appeal to buyers. It uses a 3600 RPM air cooled engine. No matter how shiny you polish the turd, no 3600 RPM air cooled engine is a "prime use" engine. 

What you need is an 1800 RPM liquid cooled engine with pressurized oil. If the engine has a radiator I would imagine it has pressurized oil also (spin on oil filter). I can't think of any liquid cooled engine that doesn't have pressurized oil. 

On the new market for 1800RPM liquid cooled engine home backup power the Cummins RS25 is about the starting point. You can run them on propane. 

Good luck and it sounds like you are in an awesome area in the mountains.


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

Hey, FlyFisher, thanks. Yes, my daughter's generator is very similar to the one in the video. The sheet metal cover is gone. It is liquid cooled but the oil filter is a WIX 51006 which looks like the type of filter you put inside the canister. It is not a spin-on filter. The information about proper rpm is very useful, thanks. This is both a backup in the sense of cloudy days and deep winter use. She just got the property and the solar and generator are not hooked up to the house for some reason. This is a fixer-upper. Since I have your input, we are going to concentrate more on starting the O'Keefe generator and having an electrical guy do a junction box, hooking both up. I am 74, the house was built in 1940 so this generator may be older than I am.

What do you think about oil requirements? In 1940 all they had was 30 weight so my guess is going with that. What about these auto oils, high mileage oils, for old engines that swell the seals? Do you think that is a good idea? I put 30 wt. Rotella T (not synthetic) in the Duromax.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

FWIW here on the farm, we use 30wt. Rotella in the old tractors, A Farmall M we sold a while back was built in 1942.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Mt.Power said:


> What do you think about oil requirements?


It all depends on the temperature range you'll be running it at. For most people a 10W30 Synthetic fills the bill.


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

exmar said:


> FWIW here on the farm, we use 30wt. Rotella in the old tractors, A Farmall M we sold a while back was built in 1942.





exmar said:


> FWIW here on the farm, we use 30wt. Rotella in the old tractors, A Farmall M we sold a while back was built in 1942.


Exmar/Tabora: That is my point about old engines. They were made for 30wt. Is there a downside to multi-vis oil in these old engines? I would certainly use 10w-30 in a modern engine.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

There's an urban legend that "You never put detergent oil in an engine that was designed and run all it's life on non-detergent." I don't know enough to comment on that, nor do I know which the Rotella we run in the old machines is. I'm just offering that as what we do.

I'm in my 70's and remember when 70-80,000 miles on a vehicle was time for an engine rebuild. Now, 80,000 is just getting broken in. Better metallurgy, better lubrication, but that's the way it is. Also, the corner gas station rebuilt engines back then. 

Personally, I wouldn't waste any time or money on something from that era, no parts available, can't begin to imagine what kind of power that would produce in terms of sine wave, THD, etc. If your hobby is tinkering with old diesels and technology of 80 years ago, great. If you want something reliable and compatible with today's technology go with the Duromax. 

I mentioned the Farmall M. Tractors of that era didn't have dipsticks for checking oil, but two petcocks, one above the other on the oil pan. The upper indicated the oil was filled properly, the lower was used to drain an inch or two of the oil off to get rid of the floating residue when running "distillate" (kerosene) rather than gas. OIl was then refilled to top petcock. I mention this as we got off topic onto oil and some of you may not have seen that technology.


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

Yes, the detergent/non-detergent was a thing for air cooled VWs. Someone has been filling the crankcase with detergent oil as there are virtually no sources for non-detergent oil. The real reason for my interest/concern for this engine is it weighs 700 pounds and simply disposing of it is not an option. We will use it if it can be started and produces electricity. It is only a backup anyway.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Non detergent oil is available. Old diesels last a long time, have a neighbor who has a D7 cable cat from the 40's which runs great. Pony motor is much more trouble than the diesel. The concern would be the generator head and the lack of any automatic regulation. Know what you mean about large stationary art objects.



https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=non%20deergent%20motor%20oil


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Mt.Power said:


> That is my point about old engines. They were made for 30wt. Is there a downside to multi-vis oil in these old engines? I would certainly use 10w-30 in a modern engine.


Once upon a time, I only ran 30wt non-detergent oil in my 1922 Model T Ford. Nowadays, what is recommended is multi-viscosity oil of 10W30 or 10W40 and API rating no higher than SF... Specifically any 4 stroke Motorcycle Oil, dino or synthetic. This is because the oil is shared by the engine and the transmission, like many motorcycles. I've been using 10W40 SF rated Mobil One Motorcycle Oil.


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

Does anyone want to venture a guess as to the oil capacity of this O'Keefe generator from the 1940s? I plan to try to start it tomorrow. Of course after that I will be thinking about changing the oil and filter since who knows when it was done last?


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Read the dipstick before draining and adjust with whatever Oil you have handy, if need be. Then drain and measure the drained Oil and replace with the correct amount and of course a new filter. Run the engine for a minute or two with the fresh oil and shut it down. Check dipstick after a couple of minutes and adjust if required. I’d not run the engine before changing out the OLD oil if at all possible. Really interested in hearing how you make out with this old relic. Please keep us posted. Dutchy


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

Dutchy491 said:


> Read the dipstick before draining and adjust with whatever Oil you have handy, if need be. Then drain and measure the drained Oil and replace with the correct amount and of course a new filter. Run the engine for a minute or two with the fresh oil and shut it down. Check dipstick after a couple of minutes and adjust if required. I’d not run the engine before changing out the OLD oil if at all possible. Really interested in hearing how you make out with this old relic. Please keep us posted. Dutchy


Well that seems easy enough, Dutchy491, thanks for the help.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Yep I think so. Just my concern running the engine with the old Oil still in it. If you’ve ever watched a car show where it hasn’t run for years? The first thing is they drain the Oil, for a few days if possible, and then fill with new Oil. Why? If the engine takes a lot of cranking to fire up at least the fresh Oil will pump easily to lube the engine during the firing attempts. It will hopefully minimize the time that it’s spinning dry, especially the farthest parts of the engine. What’s the fuel look/smell like? Can you drain the fuel and change the fuel filter prior too? All the best and waiting to hear the outcome. Dutchy


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

Yes, the fuel situation is bad too. The fuel tank is dusty and not used now. A hose goes to a plastic container of diesel with a somewhat open connection. That diesel may be bad now. We plan to take a gallon on fresh diesel up and switch the hose into that. When my daughter bought the house it was represented to us that the generator ran, just not hooked up to the electrical system. Neither is the solar. Evidently a junction box is needed but we want to see the generator run as our first job there.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check every connection on both...
do not go live with the power from both till you check it with a low cost space heater...
there could be a reason it is not connected!

but then again it might be ok...
just be a doubting thomas and check it out real real close be for connection to any good equipment.

good time for a super clean on the electric box as well as the gen set.
diesel works well for the gen set engine cleaner with nylon brushes..
as long as you let it set for a few days till run to let it evaporate a bit.

i would blow it out with an long air wand first with box fans behind you and a mask on for dust control.
if it has set for years...

before connection of batteries etc.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

One other issue might be that this 1940s unit is a 6 volt system, unless it’s been upgraded to 12 volt. Be sure to use the correct battery... Dutchy


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

It has a battery on it. In fact, it looks like it might work. Just glancing at it, it looked 12 volt to me after having a 6 volt VW for awhile but I will certainly verify that before hooking up a jumper cable from my truck in case the battery is mostly dead. Thanks.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check the water and trickle charge that battery first.
it maybe ok


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## Mt.Power (Aug 11, 2021)

We closed escrow today (two houses in this little mountain community) and this generator is actually my daughter's generator. Bad news, the previous owners TOOK THE BATTERY out of the generator. Very disappointing. I dumped a half gallon of fresh diesel into the fuel tank, hooked up jumper cables to my truck but not enough juice going through to start it. We are getting a diesel battery tomorrow.

But there are issues. I cannot find the dipstick or the oil filler cap. Not only that, I can't find the radiator cap. In the video of a similar generator it is in the front on top, where it should be---but not on mine. Also, the one in that video has a choke. No choke readily visible on mine. There is a sheet metal covering over the engine which has been screwed down with machine screws. ??????
Maybe the radiator cap is underneath? There is an ignition key and two buttons. Is one for glow plugs? Someone mentioned that. I have no idea what the other would be for.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the other button maybe start


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## backwoodsman (Aug 29, 2016)

Mt.Power said:


> What do you think about oil requirements?


I may have missed it, but didn't see where anyone mentioned: You need to use a *diesel oil*. 15w-40 is more or less the standard, and will work fine anywhere a straight 30 weight would've been used. In cold weather a 10w-30 would be better.



Mt.Power said:


> I cannot find the dipstick or the oil filler cap. Not only that, I can't find the radiator cap.


I would suggest not trying to start it, or even turning it over, until you can verify that it has sufficient oil and coolant. If you do, and either is too low, you could cause some very expensive damage. And try to get fuel into the injection pump first too; it operates at very high pressure and depends on the fuel for lubrication.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea....
prime the injection pump with an electric lift pump..


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Agree with Backwoodsman, particularly about the injector pump. If you run a diesel dry, you have to disassemble the fuel system to get fuel up to it. PITA!!! It could be a good thing that the previous owner took the battery, that would indicate that it was still viable and had been used to start the unit recently. Probably too late, but I think I'd invest in heavier jumper cables rather than a "diesel battery." Jumper cables are always useful, returning a battery can be problematic. How big is the diesel anyway?

Let us know how it all works out.


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