# Champion Inverter Generator 100520 with tri fuel kit and 1/2" NG Line



## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

I plan to get the Champion 100520 with this NG tri fuel kit - MSK3101 – MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL.
I have a 1/2" NG line for my BBQ grill like 4 Ft away from the gas meter. I was wondering if the 1/2" like will give me enough NG to feed into this Champion inverter. Any idea if this will work?

Champion Inverter Generator: 8750-Watt Open Frame Inverter - Champion Power Equipment

US Carburetion Tri Fuel kit: MSK3101 - MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL (Natural Gas, Propane, and Gasoline) Conversion Kit - Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I have never encountered a BBQ grill gas feed that would be adequate for a generator that large. Not saying it can’t happen but it’s highly unlikely.
Most gas grill feeds are sized for the 30,000 to 50,000 range. You would need a feed sized to provide enough volume of gas to support 130,000 reliably. 

Rule of thumb is 10,000btu for every horsepower. 420cc engine is ~13-15hp.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> I have never encountered a BBQ grill gas feed that would be adequate for a generator that large. Not saying it can’t happen but it’s highly unlikely.
> Most gas grill feeds are sized for the 30,000 to 50,000 range. You would need a feed sized to provide enough volume of gas to support 130,000 reliably.
> 
> Rule of thumb is 10,000btu for every horsepower. 420cc engine is ~13-15hp.


Thanks much. This is the gas meter I have and the gas line for the BBQ grill.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I like to run 1" up to the gen then reduce for the valve and valve.
and i am at less than 15 feet from the meter.
depending on how long the run is 3/4 would be the smallest.
and every 90 deg fitting is a minus off as well.

so how far away from where you wont to run the gen set to the meter?
there is a plug port on the 90 deg going in to the building.
if it was close to the gen area and it was 3/4 i would build a line from there!


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

iowagold said:


> I like to run 1" up to the gen then reduce for the valve and valve.
> and i am at less than 15 feet from the meter.
> depending on how long the run is 3/4 would be the smallest.
> and every 90 deg fitting is a minus off as well.
> ...


Thank you Sir. I am 5-7 FT away from the meter. The 1/2" bbq line is at the 6 FT mark from the main meter. If the 1/2 line won't work I am sure I can hire a plumber to connect me into the 90 deg going in to the building. I sure hope the 1/2" line in the wall is good enough


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Whichever line you tap into, get a 3/4" hose for the generator connection. I tried my Honda 7000 connected to both 1/2" and 3/4" gas lines using the 1/2" portable hose to the generator and there was no difference, so that is probably my choke point.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> Thank you Sir. I am 5-7 FT away from the meter. The 1/2" bbq line is at the 6 FT mark from the main meter. If the 1/2 line won't work I am sure I can hire a plumber to connect me into the 90 deg going in to the building. I sure hope the 1/2" line in the wall is good enough


So your 1/2 bbq line is 5-7 feet from the meter? If the shutoff valve is full bore, and you don’t have more then 4 90degree bends… that should be sufficient.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> shutoff valve is full bore,


Indeed is precisely 6 feet from the meter and just 2 90 degree bends. Now for the full bore shutoff valve, I don't know and I am not even sure how I can tell?

It looks like this? Can anyone tell?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

That’s a small port. 

This is a full port/bore (heard it both ways.)

BVT050-NP - Bluefin BVT050-NP - 1/2" Full Port Threaded Ball Valve


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the 90 deg fittings add 5 foot each.

the best way to see if you have enough is to use a flow meter as well as a pressure meter.
it is a good idea to have the pressure tested to make sure it is 11-13 wc.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you can see if it is full port by opening the valve.
just turn off the gas at the meter shut off first.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thanks gents, you are absolutely the BEST.
I just got off the phone with the Motor Snorkel folks and they've confirmed that 1. their kit will work with my Champion 100520 and 2. also the 1/2" NG line is enough if under 10 FT.
Time for me to put in the interlock kit and find a shade / enclosure for this generator


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

I bought the generator since it was marked down on Amazon as well and the snorkel kit. The thing I wonder is, since we're both thinking the same thing...running Ng. Would we be better off with this Type 3 Dedicated Natural Gas Propane Kit
Supposed to have bigger jets designed for more flow for propane and natural gas? I and like everyone else I imagine want as much power from their generator as they can get. Any thoughts on this?


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> I bought the generator since it was marked down on Amazon as well and the snorkel kit. The thing I wonder is, since we're both thinking the same thing...running Ng. Would we be better off with this Type 3 Dedicated Natural Gas Propane Kit
> Supposed to have bigger jets designed for more flow for propane and natural gas? I and like everyone else I imagine want as much power from their generator as they can get. Any thoughts on this?


Yeah Amazon, $917  You just read my mind as I was doing similar research. Ideally yes will be to get the full benefit even with NG. This is not your standard tri-fuel kit but rather a carburetor swap? I am not and expert at this so most likely I will seek someone who can install and test this for me here in Houston. Unless is an easy DIY


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

I'm not sure if it's a carb swap or just bigger jets,which if that's all it is than we can drill our own out. The website isn't very clear and they don't take emails or phone calls it says. They want you to use their forum. But it's the same company that sells the snorkel kit we both bought. If it's a carb swap I'll buy that for sure with the upgraded internals and keep the stock on for when I want to run gas. Usually the hardest part of a carb swap is just getting all the springs and metal rods in the correct orientation. Usually a 10-15m swap is all it is.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> I'm not sure if it's a carb swap or just bigger jets,which if that's all it is than we can drill our own out. The website isn't very clear and they don't take emails or phone calls it says. They want you to use their forum. But it's the same company that sells the snorkel kit we both bought. If it's a carb swap I'll buy that for sure with the upgraded internals and keep the stock on for when I want to run gas. Usually the hardest part of a carb swap is just getting all the springs and metal rods in the correct orientation. Usually a 10-15m swap is all it is.


Shoot, I will just buy an OEM extra carb and modify that offline and then swap the original so you have a backup just in case. So I guess you have to buy all the parts and all thet, jets, etc, etc?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

what gen set are you working on tuna?
make and model and year


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

what you are talking about is an old school single fuel spud system.
if you have a machine shop they are super easy to do.
but there are several things they fail to mention that needs to be done for them to work right.


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

The same as the OP the champion 100520. I know with the snorkel we lose a good bit of output on Ng. The link I posted was the best thing I could find as far as a lp/ng straight carburetor.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

so how much for a v twin carb from champion?


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Swaping carburetor looks easy actually. Carburetor Replacement (100519, 100520)



https://y79961nbs4u2hvbnwronx9zx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/100520-om-english.pdf



- 16003-Z980110-0000 Carburetor Insulator Plate

- 16001-Z100110-0000 Carburetor Gasket





Carburetor Gasket | Champion Power Equipment Store







shop.championpowerequipment.com





- 16100-Z980210-00M0 Carburetor Assembly





Carburetor Assembly | Champion Power Equipment Store







shop.championpowerequipment.com


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

That I don't know. Haven't gotten the generator in the mail get. I tried browsing ebay and amazon and haven't found a replacement yet.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Thebigtuna said:


> The same as the OP the champion 100520. I know with the snorkel we lose a good bit of output on Ng. The link I posted was the best thing I could find as far as a lp/ng straight carburetor.


The snorkel isn’t the reason for output loss, Natural Gas is. The snorkel is a versatile and easy conversion that negates the need for replacing the carb, drilling, or installing a spud.


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

I was told the reason you lose power is because the jets are smaller designed for gasoline which makes sense. Just like when you run e85 your car will increase the fuel pressure by 15-20% to offset the btu difference vs what 87 octane produces.

That's why you hear people complain of losing mpg's with e85 but don't understand why.


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

I also have the powerhorse 27000w generator ordered. That'll be my main rig I'm thinking for the day time when **** goes south to be able to run everything, and use the champion in the night when people are sleeping and nothing but the ac is probably being used. I'll be doing the Ng set-up on that as well.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> I also have the powerhorse 27000w generator ordered. That'll be my main rig I'm thinking for the day time when **** goes south to be able to run everything, and use the champion in the night when people are sleeping and nothing but the ac is probably being used. I'll be doing the Ng set-up on that as well.


Isn't your HVAC sensitive to dirty power for the 27000? Most newer electronics are... What is the THD on that one? < 5%


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

JohnWhicker said:


> Isn't your HVAC sensitive to dirty power for the 27000? Most newer electronics are... What is the THD on that one? < 5%


Yes says it's less that 5% thd. I'll look into a whole home line filter as well just as precaution.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Thebigtuna said:


> I was told the reason you lose power is because the jets are smaller designed for gasoline which makes sense. Just like when you run e85 your car will increase the fuel pressure by 15-20% to offset the btu difference vs what 87 octane produces.
> 
> That's why you hear people complain of losing mpg's with e85 but don't understand why.


The bottom line is gasoline generators have engines that are not optimized for gaseous fuels. Propane is more similar to gasoline then NG (methane). As a result propane can achieve a better output then NG and suffers less of a wattage penalty when converting to trifuel. 

The pertinent factors are compression ratio and ignition timing and the stoichiometric air fuel ratio of methane. NG has a lower BTU by volume then gasoline and propane. It also has a high octane (~120)rating that favors high compression ratios (up to 15 to 1) and lots of timing advance a lean burn. Gasoline generators engines have fixed or narrowly adjustable timing curves with minimal advance and low compression ratios that rarely Exceed 8.5 to 1.


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

So you saying even with bigger jets for more fuel, your not going to see a reasonable increase in power? I don't expect to jump from 6000 running watts in natural gas to 8000, but I couldn't see why we couldn't gain enough to get to 7000 or so.


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

On the powerhorse how much power am I realistically looking to get when running that on Ng? Shows 18k running watts.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Rule of thumb is subtract 20% Of its rating. So figure 14,400 is a safe estimate.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

So is here  New toy


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

Mine comes Saturday..I'm still torn on what the kit is I linked to earlier about the carb with bigger jets. Can't imagine the same company that sells the snorkel would lie or be wrong about gaining back power with their carb kit...I need to contact them and see


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> Mine comes Saturday..I'm still torn on what the kit is I linked to earlier about the carb with bigger jets. Can't imagine the same company that sells the snorkel would lie or be wrong about gaining back power with their carb kit...I need to contact them and see


Keep me updated please. I am torn with the same decision. You go first LOL


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## Jackruf (Nov 4, 2012)

JohnWhicker said:


> So is here  New toy
> 
> 
> View attachment 9621


 Will be interested to hear your review of this unit.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Jackruf said:


> Will be interested to hear your review of this unit.


I will make sure to document and post my journey for the others to leverage as I learned so much from this forum. Will keep you updated for sure.....


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

Idk if anyone read the card they send in the box..


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> Idk if anyone read the card they send in the box..


This card is for the tri-fuel kit right?









MSK3101 - MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL (Natural Gas, Propane, and Gasoline) Conversion Kit - Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion


The latest, patented Generator Conversion Kit from the industry leader US Carburetion allows you to convert your existing gasoline powered generator to use propane, natural gas or gasoline *tri-fuel*. Simplest installation on the market.




motorsnorkel.com


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

Yea that's what I got and was reading the card they provided


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Thebigtuna said:


> Yea that's what I got and was reading the card they provided


So did you got with the MSK3101 – MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL (Natural Gas, Propane, and Gasoline) Conversion Kit ?


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## Thebigtuna (Jun 30, 2021)

JohnWhicker said:


> So did you got with the MSK3101 – MOTOR SNORKEL TRI-FUEL (Natural Gas, Propane, and Gasoline) Conversion Kit ?


Yes I bought that TRI fuel kit. I'll see how it goes in a few weeks when we get our house. Going to have a plumber run the gas line to it and the electrician wire it up


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Thebigtuna said:


> Yes I bought that TRI fuel kit. I'll see how it goes in a few weeks when we get our house. Going to have a plumber run the gas line to it and the electrician wire it up


make sure they run larger than you need on the gas line just to give you extra room on the btu's for future gen sets!


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

iowagold said:


> make sure they run larger than you need on the gas line just to give you extra room on the btu's for future gen sets!


Thanks partner. Yes I plan to connect it straight into the gas metter as I have a 1/2" connecttor on it. I will probably go from 1/2 to 3/4 on the hose which will be about 4-6 FT long


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> Thanks partner. Yes I plan to connect it straight into the gas metter as I have a 1/2" connecttor on it. I will probably go from 1/2 to 3/4 on the hose which will be about 4-6 FT long


Going from 1/2 to 3/4 will have marginal benefit if any. The 1/2 early in the run is your limiting factor. Ideally you want 3/4 the whole way. Next best is 3/4” to start and neck down to 1/2 close to the generator Within reason. 
In your case that 1/2 port isn’t that big of a deal because its right at the meter and will immediately jump to 3/4.


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