# Champion Inverter surging



## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

Hi all,

I recently purchased a new Champion 4500 watt dual fuel and fires it up for the first time on propane. I plan to only run propane. The issue I’m having is that it is surging in Eco mode at idle and with a light load (small space heater). It surges slightly with eco mode off but barely perceptible. Seems fine with a 50% load.

I tried two different 20lb tanks and experienced the issue with both. I submitted a support request to Champion already but no response yet. Any other things worth checking to see if it could be the cause?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea the demand regulator as well as the regulator on the tank.
what size of tank are you using???
they tend to work better on the 30 lp and up tanks...

also the hose size makes a difference..
is this a new tank?? and was the air purged out of the tank before filling with liquid?
the latter makes all the difference in the world!

the first stage regulator could be bad... starving or over fueling...
what does the exhaust smell like???
metal is lean and LP rotten eggs is rich.
also look at the spark plug for color. it should be like new color when on LP or ng.
you might try a new spark plug and make sure it is gaped right for LP as well.

we like the iridium ngk spark plugs for alt fuels.
they work better.

and we gap at .022 inches or 22 thou.
that advances the spark a bit for better burn.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> yea the demand regulator as well as the regulator on the tank.
> what size of tank are you using???
> they tend to work better on the 30 lp and up tanks...
> 
> ...


Thanks, I’ll give give those a try. Was running on a 20lb tank and tried another 20lb tank as well and had the same issue. I have a 30lber I’ll try. Exhaust doesn’t smell rich but I did notice a slight metallic smell.
I pulled the side cover and I was seeing the governor moving back and forth and wasn’t even hitting the idle screw. Not sure of that helps with any diagnosis.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the throttle should not be at the idle screw...
i should be above it..
use a tach and set the idle screw!
it may not be set right from the factory!
use the low speed number with eco on and run the screw in till it just increases the rpm and back out 1/4 a turn is close to perfect 

does it settle down with a 1500 watt load?


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> the throttle should not be at the idle screw...
> i should be above it..
> use a tach and set the idle screw!
> it may not be set right from the factory!
> ...


yes, it does settle down with about 1500 watt load. 

Also tried the 30lb tank and still surging at idle. All the tanks have worked fine on my wgen9500df.

sounding like it’s a bad regulator or extra air coming in from somewhere?


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## mtucker (May 9, 2021)

Was your support request an e-mail? I suggest calling and waiting on hold. They didn't answer my e-mail either, but after 45 minutes on hold I got someone that knew what they were talking about and helpful.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

mtucker said:


> Was your support request an e-mail? I suggest calling and waiting on hold. They didn't answer my e-mail either, but after 45 minutes on hold I got someone that knew what they were talking about and helpful.


I sent an e-mail and also called Friday afternoon. I think I called close to the end of their day so sat on hold for 30min before I gave up. I plan to call again tomorrow. Not sure if their support is open or not due to the holiday


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

AlpineX5 said:


> yes, it does settle down with about 1500 watt load.
> 
> Also tried the 30lb tank and still surging at idle. All the tanks have worked fine on my wgen9500df.
> 
> sounding like it’s a bad regulator or extra air coming in from somewhere?


sounds like a demand regulator issue.
snap some pix of your connections to the tank and on the gen side.
is the demand regulator inside the case just off the carb?

try running with a side cover off the gen set ad see if it smooths out.
unless they are using a #53 style demand regulator with an external pressure balance hose.
the other demand regulators do not like the enclosed case suction or negative pressure on the outside of the demand regulator.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> sounds like a demand regulator issue.
> snap some pix of your connections to the tank and on the gen side.
> is the demand regulator inside the case just off the carb?
> 
> ...


Demand regulator is inside the case. Ran it for a bit with the side cover off and still got the surging.I also checked the connections going from the propane quick connect and the hoses that connect to the regulator and all seem solid. Attaching a couple pics.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea gauges would be nice to look at things...
have you contacted Champion service center yet?
it might be a good time to ring them to see if they have been having pre recall issues.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> yea gauges would be nice to look at things...
> have you contacted Champion service center yet?
> it might be a good time to ring them to see if they have been having pre recall issues.


yah, sent an e-mail to their support and called and spoke with someone today after being on hold for over an hour. The guy seemed clueless and said he needed to have a more senior person review the video I sent…supposed to call me back tonight, of course that didn’t happen. May just go through the headache of returning it for a replacement.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

that might be the best plan...

yea hunting / surging just drives me up the wall.....
i feel your pain!
lol

let us know how you turn out with the exchange.

you could always put a few bucks more with it and get the Honda eu7000is gen set...
they work well for us.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

iowagold said:


> you could always put a few bucks more with it and get the Honda eu7000is gen set...
> they work well for us.


Except that would be 500% more expensive, not a few bucks.  Not to mention the propane conversion.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

in small generators you do get what you pay for....
"there is no free lunch"
been there done that on the low cost units........
way more time and money spent getting them to work....

we just cut to the chase and buy the good Honda eu series generators and never have to look back.
GRIN!
and yes they hold value as used equipment!


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

Champion is sending a new hose, demand regulator and carb. We’ll see if any of those fix the issue. Dropping 5K for the Honda isn’t in my budget for my backup gen setup and it’s overkill for my needs.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool on the parts.
take your time and do a good job!
watch for gasket failures and make sure every thing is spotless clean!


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

I seem to have fixed the issue. I decided to run some gasoline through it to see if it surges on gasoline and it did not. After running 1/3 gallon through it and switching back to propane, the surging has subsided. I plan to run it through the remaining break in hrs on propane to see if it happen again. Fingers crossed that it’s gone for good.

edit: I was wrong…after shutting it down for awhile and starting it back up on propane, it’s surging again at idle.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the mix is wrong on the lp.
we use load blocks to dial in the mixture.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> the mix is wrong on the lp.
> we use load blocks to dial in the mixture.


that makes sense. There doesn’t appear to be anywhere I can manually adjust it. Still seems odd to me that it’s primarily in Eco mode and is otherwise fine under load. If I were to continue to run it with this surging in Eco, could that cause damage to the generator?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hey question for you
what is the altitude for your area of operation?
is it below 3000 feet?
they have 3 ranges of jets for this engine
0-3000 feet
3000-6000 feet
6000 feet to 8000 feet

try re gaping the spark plug to .025 inches or 25 thou.
if that does not do it try for .022 inches or 22 thou.

i looked at the parts blow up it did not call out the demand regulator...
I would check out the carb LP jets size...
let me know if you need a link for the jet size tool.

make sure the LP hoses inside the case are not restricted or kinked..


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> hey question for you
> what is the altitude for your area of operation?
> is it below 3000 feet?
> they have 3 ranges of jets for this engine
> ...


I’m well below 3000’. I checked all the hoses today as I’ve pulled out the “auxiliary regulator” that Champion is sending a replacement for. I plan to swap in the new parts when they arrive tomorrow and will check the spark plug gap and if that doesn’t fix the issue I’ll likely just request a replacement from the retailer. Thanks!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

are they requesting the old parts back?


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> are they requesting the old parts back?


no, they aren’t.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

snap some pix of the demand regulator inside the gen set.
see if there are any mfg stamping s or numbers on it.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> snap some pix of the demand regulator inside the gen set.
> see if there are any mfg stamping s or numbers on it.


here it is.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we like this one for manual start
Impco Beam T52N-58791-002 Regulator with Primer
and
this one for auto start then use a time or remote choke style button on the remote for prime sol
Impco Beam T52N-N-2 Regulator


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool i make the numbers to be on the demand regulator to be
*Z3R0310
XZ 210416 0161*
right?
is there a mfg name behind the panel on the part?


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> cool i make the numbers to be on the demand regulator to be
> *Z3R0310
> XZ 210416 0161*
> right?
> is there a mfg name behind the panel on the part?


Yep, those look right. No other info on it.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

Swapped in the replacement demand regulator and carb and the surging has stopped. Not sure which fixed it… didn’t feel like doing any testing to figure out which part was faulty. Just happy it’s humming along as it should now.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ha!
glad you are up and running!
i would suspect the demand regulator.


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> ha!
> glad you are up and running!
> i would suspect the demand regulator.


yah I’m guessing so too. I plan to keep the old carb as a backup. I’m not too concerned with confirming if it was the regulator or not. Just happy that it’s running smoothly now.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

it could be off on the setting or calibration of the demand trip inside for the low signal when at lower rpm.
you have to have a flow bench setup to set those as perfect...
it is a fussy thing... lots of try and testing to get it perfect...


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## AlpineX5 (Aug 9, 2021)

iowagold said:


> it could be off on the setting or calibration of the demand trip inside for the low signal when at lower rpm.
> you have to have a flow bench setup to set those as perfect...
> it is a fussy thing... lots of try and testing to get it perfect...


thanks for the help and ideas!!


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