# Kohler vs Generac 30kw Diesel Generators for Home Backup



## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Hello all,

New to the forum. I'm glad I stumbled onto this as I feel a little out of my element trying to decide between these two generators. Looking for opinions on these or even suggest something I haven seen yet. I live somewhat out in the country in Eastern PA with no NG. We are all electric, but use heating oil supplemented with a wood stove. I have a couple diesel machines on the property. We loose power far too often and since I travel a lot for work and have 3 young kids, the wife and I decided enough is enough. I've decided I want a diesel whole house gen and these two are the ones I have found/been recommended so far.



https://kohlerpower.com/en/generators/industrial/product/30reozk4








Protector Series 30kW Diesel Generator


No matter your business need, Generac's business is protecting yours—from the damage of power outages.




www.generac.com





Here are some of the pros and cons I have come up with so far. Keep in mind I am new to generators and am no electrician. 

Kohler Pros
1. Appears to be a solid, well engineered generator. It weighs over 3000 pounds. (Generac is just over 2000)
2. It has access doors that open with latches and hinges.
3. It is prime power rated. (just in case the grid ever goes down for a long time)
4. My fathers a contractor, his trusted electrician said Kohler uses better electrical components than Generac FWIW

Kohler Cons
1. Literally only ONE dealer/installer/service provider within an hour of me. 
2. Not sure about Kohler's made in Italy engines as far as longevity and parts availability. (I'd love to hear more)
3. Costs slightly more than the Generac 
4. 6 months out on install backlog.

Generac Pros
1. They make nothing but generators
2. There are 25+ dealer/installer/service providers within an hour of me
3. The engine is a Perkins, made in England, but used all over the world in tractors, Bobcats, Caterpillar machines. 
I feel good about longevity and parts availability.
4. Only 6-8 weeks out on install backlog.
5. Costs slightly less than the Kohler

Generac Cons
1. Appears to be less solidly built weighing 1000 pounds less.
2. The enclosure needs to be completely removed to service or fuel the machine.
3. It is not Prime power rated

I'd really appreciate the opinions of others that have more experience than myself. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!!


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Have no opinion on these two machines. Just be aware that the "25 +dealer/... " may not all be capable of service after it's installed. e.g. The two lumberyards and two hardware stores locally both have big Generac dealer signs, I asked one and "We sell them, there's a lot of electricians around who "will" install them." I'd focus on who offers actual service after the install. While the majority of electricians would have no problem doing an install, servicing, particularly on a diesel unit is probably out of their comfort zones. Obvious questions like stocking parts should be focused on.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

look at cat


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

iowagold said:


> look at cat


Thanks, unfortunately there is no dealer within 2 hours of my house. Too far for service.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Of the two I would suggest the Kohler. Much better in all aspects of generator quality.
Do you really need 30kW?


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. Seems every installer has recommended at least a 30kw. One even suggested a 48kw. I'd go bigger if i wasn't worried about wet stacking the diesel.


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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

Another concern: A fuel tank on your property. MOST home insurance companies include a question in their "adverse selection" pre-qualifying questions whether a potential client has a fuel tank on the property to be insured. LP and fuel oil are won't qualify you, but a tank like you might find on a farm for off-road diesel usually results in a declination to even quote your insurance. Not saying it's fair. If you can find a company that will insure you with a fuel tank the cost of such policy will certainly be higher due to the additional perceived risk involved. Similar to having a swimming pool. So that raises cost of ownership over its lifetime of such a setup. Factor that in to your budget. 

I agree on the parts and service "contract" comments above. I wanted a Generac too. Until I researched Generac thoroughly the last six months, including calling and speaking with more than a few dealers. Internet info aside, you assemble the bits of information each relates, you read between the lines of their replies, you connect the dots and you slowly cobble together a somewhat disturbing picture of possible (even probable) post-Generac purchase reality that is far from the marketing we see. Not sayin' the negatives are all limited to Generac either, but_ where there is smoke_...

Paul is right: look at Cat.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Ok, just set a message to the CAT distributer. May be adding them to the mix. Appears the model that suits me is the *DE33 GC Generator Set (60 Hz).*


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

The CAT is not prime rated according to their spec sheet though. It says it's designed for 200 hours a year with a maximum of 500.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

there are other models in cat.
*click here for the cat oem site*
and the support page
*click here for the cat support page*
they do make units for non back up.
or power all of the time...
you might want to look at those as well and see if they can custom build for you.
you do want 50% more gen than you need..
these are tier 3 and 4 machines... not sure if wet stacking is an issue with electronic injection.
I have yet to see it as a problem with the new modern units.
they can back off the fuel better now for low to no load with the electronic injection.

just make sure to get mouse proof enclosures!
that is all about a good install guy!

remote BIG power is not on the cheap..
but industrial cat gens are an investment! not a throw away box store gen set.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks for the info Paul, looks like they do have some prime rated gens. What is it about CAT that makes them so good over even the Kohler?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

one word
*quality*
the factory is only about 100 miles from me.
yea if this covid thing gets done put that tour on your bucket list of places to see!
the engines are first class!
ask any one around the world about cat engines.
they all say the same they are the best.
a close second is john deere engines.

most of the towns in Iowa have gone cat back up power now!
that should say something!
lol.

and it will take more than a bit of covid to run them out of biz..
cat is in it for the long haul!


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

True Generac story. A neighbor who is almost an invalid, decided to go with a whole house generator. He went with Generac. It was installed, tested, all was good. About a month later, we had a five day outage due to ice storms. His Generac didn't start. He called the installer/service company and they came out and immediately determined it was a PC board. It took five weeks to get a replacement. It was under warranty, but he had to pay "rush" shipping. The installer ended up bringing out a open frame unit and extension cords to get the family through the outage. The installation was partially or wholly funded with state or federal money due to his condition, lawyers got involved. Not sure where it ended up. This happened about eight years ago, no idea if Generac has cleaned up their act, they're sold everywhere and for the $$ are probably the cheapest whole house units.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just not sold on the g gens...
yea i have a million bad names for them.. lol!
all bad experience here in the shop on their stuff..
they are just in it for the buck for sure as far as i can see...

cat on the other hand has first rate service in my area at least..
1-2 hours they have a tech on site!
and if you can be on the phone with them a bit they know exactly what parts to bring with them!
on the service trucks they have lots of spare parts loaded ready to go for your cat gen!

it is quite a good biz model for sure...
I wish all other brands could take a lesson from them!


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## Markar (Aug 16, 2020)

I agree buy a Cat. Buy it once will last a life time.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies. Talked to my CAT rep yesterday. He said the small CAT gens are not prime rated, but have a prime power output none the less. Not sure how that works exactly. He also said the smallest gen their company does is 40kw so I’m having them put a price together for that. I also had CAT added to the vote choices above.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

After my experience with Generac which has not been that good, I would look else where.
First off: Generac keeps their parts and info in close to their dealers. A do it yourselfer does not have a chance of finding parts for a broken Generac.
Second, it appears that Generac drops support after 20 years. Try to find a schematic for an older unit after that time.
I do own a Generac, but never again.
There is a support group at Ziller.com that will give you the ins and outs of Generac problems.
As for Kohler, they have had their problems in the past.
Then there is Cummins:




You have made the right move to go to Cat for info.
Then there is PDG in Georgia that is worth investigating.
Another is Kubota. I owned Kubota tractors and there is no better diesel.
I had diesels years ago and if you store a large quantity of fuel for long periods of time it tends to go bad. If you have diesel equipment that can consume the stored diesel, then you are good to go, but if not, go Propane.
An oil dealer charges to pump one year old fuel out and replace it with fresh fuel. Beware.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Hi Guys, 

Heard from my CAT rep and wanted to let you know where I'm at and see your thoughts. I've decided I'm not interested in a Generac anymore. When I call them with questions they can't tell me anything about what they're selling thats not listed in their brochure. Clueless with technical questions. And different people telling me different things about the warranty. So its down to the Kohler and CAT.

Price for the 30kw Kohler diesel is $33,500. This is installed with concrete pad, all permits, a 5 year warranty, and some minor electrical upgrades such as "Existing main panel will need to be replaced in order for a proper install. Best option would be to replace with a new Square D QO 54 space panel, combining both panels into one, making room for the switch installation. Meter socket on the outside of the home will also need to be replaced due to type, condition, and age. New ground rods will also be installed, upgrading the entire service." 

Price for the 40kw (smallest offered) CAT diesel installed with concrete pad, NO permits, a 2 year warranty and no mention of upgrades to my existing service is $38,900. 

It's obvious the Kohler guy really is experienced with residential installs. I get the impression the CAT guys only do Industrial/commercial installs. Not sure if this is something I should be concerned about or not. Both of these gens are more than I should spend and would be going on a HELOC. 

If these gens and their after care are comparable the Kohler is a no brainer. However; I've heard many of you say CAT is a significant step up, and I take that seriously. Any more advice would be greatly appreciated! Is the price difference and less included still worth it for the CAT?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea i vote the cat.
larger is ok!
better to have more than you need and run it as not breathing hard!
lol!
it is good stuff for sure...


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Hi guys! The CAT rep keeps adding to the price. Now they want almost 2 grand to do the permits that the other brand installers were already including. Plus another 2 grand for a 5 year warranty that the others already have. Plus another grand for the larger fuel tank. I want the CAT, but this is a big pill to swallow. Approaching a nearly 10 grand difference. Soooooo what are some of the issues/concerns with the Kohler? Hows the KDI diesel engine (formerly Lambordini)? The Kohler installer bragged how good they were (surprise) and how JCB uses them among others. I have to be honest, I don't think I can justify the cost of the CAT unless some specific, significant shortcomings of the Kohler are pointed out.

Thanks everyone!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the cat is better....
so is this cat service center doing the quote or just a retailer?


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Paul,
The CAT dealer is doing the quote. They are subcontracting the install to an electrical contractor and a concrete contractor. I have no doubt the CAT is better. Are you familiar with the Kohler diesels? What is wrong with them?


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

I am curious, did you look at PDG.com in Atlanta, Ga?


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

I did not. Never heard of them and the link looks like a finance solutions company in California.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hummm.
cat up here is the primary and full one stop shop..
the guys working on the project all are cat guys....

well if you knew what pad they needed, 
you could have that set with a general concrete flat work contractor...


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Mitsubishi Diesel Generator 22 kw Acoustic Startup - YouTube


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Ok, another question fellas. How important is a PMG alternator verses a self excited alternator. Is this a concern that all the generators I'm looking at come standard with a self excited? Is it worth paying a significant up charge for a PMG?


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

PMG??? PDG.com was the referred site.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

I was talking about the PMG alternator design. Something completely different. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

I just read that the CAT C4.4 engine that comes in the CAT 40kw generator I'm looking at is made in the UK by Perkins. Is this engine up to the level of quality and reliability of CAT manufactured engines that everyone swears by? The Perkins is the same engine used in the Generac I was originally looking at. I find it a little troubling that I have moved up from the Generac to the Kohler and then to the CAT just to be back to square 1 with the engine while spending 50 percent more.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Perkins is the engine used in Massey Ferguson tractors and many other devices.
I have owned many.
Reliable and long lasting engines.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Great to hear! Thanks!


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## Markar (Aug 16, 2020)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Great to hear! Thanks!


Just remember if a product cost less there is a reason why. 
I worked in a small hardware store and we sold box fans the same brand and size as the big box store.
Our cost was only cents less then the big box retail. I kept asking why and how. Finally after many calls
into the supplier they finally said to me “ Go to the box and purchase one then bring it back and what weight it”.
Will I got my answer it was 3 ounces lighter. 
My point is if it less cost there is a reason you are usually getting less.
I also spent seven years working for an electrical wholesale company.
buyer beware
Markar


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Markar said:


> “ Go to the box and purchase one then bring it back and what weight it”.


Fortunately, Honda doesn't play that game; a given model number is identical regardless of the sales outlet.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Markar said:


> Just remember if a product cost less there is a reason why.
> I worked in a small hardware store and we sold box fans the same brand and size as the big box store.
> Our cost was only cents less then the big box retail. I kept asking why and how. Finally after many calls
> into the supplier they finally said to me “ Go to the box and purchase one then bring it back and what weight it”.
> ...


i always like the guys who say "pay me now or pay me later"
and it is soooo true when buying gens...
you pay more up front for a cat or a honda....
but on the back side you are better off.
both have good retail when used.
I have been watching the prices on the bay... some of the honda gens are at almost new prices for well used gens.

i have one gen client that buys new honda gens every year...
and sells the old ones to the employees at $100.00 off new price!
lol the employees take good care of the gens that way!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Ok guys, here is the latest. I have been talking with both the Kohler dealer and the Cat distributor trying to lock in on a final decision. They have to be so sick of me by now! Which way I’m leaning changes by the day at this point. I really like the kohler dealer, his feedback and ratings are excellent from his existing/past customers, he has spent so much time with me both in email and in person. He even arranged for me to come see in person a similar model to the one I’m interested in and opened it up, started it up, went over everything and really went out of his way for me. It appeared to me like a quality machine. I’ve revised the model I’m looking at now to the 40reozk. Now a 40 kw just like the Cat C4.4. This has increased the price to exactly what the Cat costs, but the Kohler has a 5 year warranty vs the 2 year for the Cat. The Kohler also has a PMG alternator as standard (best you can get I’m told) and on the Cat it’s an added option. I like the enclosure on the Kohler much better than the Cat from purely an appearance perspective being next to my house. These two machines both weight the same at 3200 pounds. I almost feel like I’m obligated to buy the Kohler at this point because the dealer has been so great. But I keep hearing in my head the many voices telling me the Cat will be a better generator. Is this a Ford Chevy thing or would buying the Kohler really be a mistake? Sorry if I’m being annoying, just trying to get as many opinions as I can to tip the scale one way or the other.
Thanks!!!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Well, last week I finally signed the contract for the CAT. It was not an easy decision at all and I must have changed my mind a dozen times. I upgraded to the PMG alternator so I don't feel like I was giving up anything to the Kohler (with the exception of the 5 year warranty). I felt bad not going with the Kohler dealer/installer as he was truly exceptional, but in the end I truly believe, after talking to lots of specialists both on and off this forum, that the CAT is a better generator. Thanks again for all the help over the last several months.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Well, last week I finally signed the contract for the CAT. It was not an easy decision at all and I must have changed my mind a dozen times. I upgraded to the PMG alternator so I don't feel like I was giving up anything to the Kohler (with the exception of the 5 year warranty). I felt bad not going with the Kohler dealer/installer as he was truly exceptional, but in the end I truly believe, after talking to lots of specialists both on and off this forum, that the CAT is a better generator. Thanks again for all the help over the last several months.


Congrats. Can you share the cost please? I am looking at a similar setup amd just wanted an idea. PM me if you want. Thnanks much Sir


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks. Cost came in at $39,700 with me doing the permitting and digging the 80 foot trench myself. Had to get the cost down as much as I could. I saved nearly 4 grand. I'm happy with my decision so far. I will report back with pics when its all installed.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Generator is finally in! The thing is a beast! Everything looks very well designed and over built. Thanks again to everyone on the forum for all the help and steering me in the right direction! The wife and neighbors think it's over the top but I love it! Haha


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Looks like a nice unit for sure. Thanks for posting back an update. 

I did not catch this thread earlier when you created it but I read through it from the start. Something I was looking for was more detail on your loads and reasoning for that large of a generator. I read iowagold's comment about sizing a generator 50% larger than what your loads are but I didn't catch any reasoning for the detail in your case. Can you explain that?

Why I ask is a buddy of mine has a 15kw for whole house back up and he can run everything. I just picked up a 15kw, I have yet to really load test it here though. If 15kw will run a whole house - AC, refrigerators, lights, TV's, elec. water heater, etc, etc - I am trying to do the math on where your desire for a 40kw unit comes from. Using the 50% larger size than the calculated loads reasoning - that would put the loads based off that calculation at 20kw. What is consuming all that power? Do you run multiple central AC units?


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

I was originally only looking for a 30kw as that is what my required load calculated out at and that was very tight actually. But when I decided CAT was the direction I wanted to go the smallest they offered in my area is 40kw with the C4.4 engine. The reason for this is they stock nearly every single part for this engine and electronics allowing for same day parts and repair in almost all cases. Also the C4.4 engine is used in every gen from 40kw up to 100kw allowing for parts commonality. Another factor that was very surprising to me was the larger 40kw gen actually has very similar fuel burn per kw to the smaller 30kw unit. So while i will burn about 1 additional gallon of fuel per day, running at 20kw (or 50 percent), vs 66% on the 30kw unit, with a 250 gal tank that is nearly inconsequential. 

As far as my homes requirements go we are all electric except for we use oil supplemented with wood for heat.

2 3.5 ton central AC units 
Electric water heater
Electric range (4 burner) and oven
Electric dehumidifier in the basement
Microwave
Toaster oven
Coffee maker
Dishwasher
Garbage disposal
Electric well pump
Electric Septic pump
Electric fridge/freezer
Electric upright freezer (a second is in the plans)
Electric washer and dryer
The wife's hairdryer/straightener
4300 sq ft of lights


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

The A/C units are 3500 watts each times 2, the stove is 11000 watts with every burner and oven on. Thats 18kw right there alone! I'm not sure how a 15kw could work for a whole house unit without being very load conscious.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

That is one sweet generator. Buy once, cry once. I have read that the diesel units are happiest when loaded up. I hope you get many, many good years from that genset. Maybe place some nice evergreen shrubs around it for camoflage. Let us know how it all works out!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks! We are thinking about what to put there actually. Our criteria is highly deer resistant and very shade tolerant. Plus we want something that looks natural and not forced like a hedge row.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Gunenthusiast said:


> The A/C units are 3500 watts each times 2, the stove is 11000 watts with every burner and oven on. Thats 18kw right there alone! I'm not sure how a 15kw could work for a whole house unit without being very load conscious.


OK yeah when I read your list it started making sense. The 2x AC units and everything else (heating/cooking) being electric really adds up. However, you could stagger loads to drop draw. 

Also, how often is it that you have every burner on the range with the oven on at the same time? I realize if you are looking for head room you are going for the "high number". Not a bad idea, just thinking more realistic loading. 

The well pump and septic pump likely draw quite a bit also - especially start up loads. Sorry you have to deal with a septic pump also. Ours is entirely gravity fed, so just the well pump to deal with at the cabins. 

The clothes dryer is one of those "nice to haves" but not "necessaries". Of course, your wife might beg to differ on that one. You can string up clothes on a clothesline to dry. Then you're down to the washer load. Country folk and outdoorsmen tend to think differently on those things 

As for whole house back up on 15kw - much different perspective on what constitutes whole house. And your list illustrates that. My buddy's place doesn't have 2 AC's, just 1, and they don't have electric heating, aside from the water heater. Big difference. We're all gas here - and that is a good thing as we have fuel piped in that will work for running generator engines, provided the gas is on and doesn't get turned off (that is a huge convenience to have - but., sorry to say, it can not be relied on - no "utility" that is "supplied to you" can be). As far as the loads go - if we did run in to a power issue then trimming loads for running what isn't for a period of time is possible. Or, fire up a 2nd generator for the load. That theory was going to apply to the 15kw - it being the one to fire up when needed - but that would only work if the smaller open frame unit is enough wattage to get us by and that could only work in cooler weather when AC isn't needed. If AC is needed its automatically the big one. The caveat is fuel availability. If we loose natural gas and have trouble getting gasoline or propane we have to ration fuel and the first thing that goes has to be AC, as much as I don't want to admit that. AC makes the difference in and of itself of running the bare minimum vs as much as we have. Even if we loose natural gas we can still cook - propane first, then several camping/bacpacking stoves - white gas and butane. After that we could go to wood and charcoal. So at that point the tiny EU2200i generator sipping gas would be enough to power the "essentials" - refrigerators, lights, fans. Thats the difference of about 20oz fuel/hr to 1.5 gallons fuel/hr, or almost 10 times less fuel (20oz/hr to 192oz/hr for the equivalent 1.5gal to oz conversion). That is 10 times the run time on what fuel we do have. If we had enough fuel to run the big generator for 1 day for AC then loose power entirely that same 1 day's fuel supply for the big one would get us 10 days on the little one. Thats really something to think about. Of course, around the 4 day marks (100hr run time intervals) the unit would need an oil change and plug cleaning - if it was fresh off a new change, sooner depending on how many hrs past last change.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Thanks! We are thinking about what to put there actually. Our criteria is highly deer resistant and very shade tolerant. Plus we want something that looks natural and not forced like a hedge row.


Rhododendrons are very natural looking and do well in shade. They can also grow very large. We had some our by my pool that were in excess of 15 ft tall. I think the deer like them though. A couple of smartly placed eastern red cedars may be a good choice.






The Pros and Cons of the Eastern Redcedar | Piedmont Master Gardeners







piedmontmastergardeners.org


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

With a family of 5 we typically use 2 burners and the oven for preparing dinner, but have used all of them. like you pointed out with load management and careful planning it's possible to get by on very little power. In our case however; we have several things going against us. We are on a very old grid here and we seem to loose power very often. It's very inconvenient and my wife and I are over worrying about it. So we want a thoughtless, worry free system. I travel a lot for work and I don't want the family to have any harder of a time than necessary when we loose power.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Thanks! Rhododendrons don't last long with the deer around here. We've tried them. I really like the look of the eastern red cedar you sent. have to do more research on deer and shade tolerance. We have a few junipers that are doing well, but they are in full sun. The gen is in a location around large hardwood trees providing a canopy from sunlight.


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## Airstreamer67 (Oct 3, 2020)

Gunenthusiast, congratulations on that big Cat! 

You now have the epitome of reliable, commercial-grade world-class generating units. 

It don't get any better than that!


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Thanks! Rhododendrons don't last long with the deer around here. We've tried them. I really like the look of the eastern red cedar you sent. have to do more research on deer and shade tolerance. We have a few junipers that are doing well, but they are in full sun. The gen is in a location around large hardwood trees providing a canopy from sunlight.


You could always place a shed in front of it. This would help deflect noise as well.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

well done on the cat!
make sure to make a cover for the control panel to keep the sun off the panel.
and make sure the stack has a flapper or just place a soup can over it when not use to keep the rain snow and bugs out of it.
and mud dauber resistant the air in and out.

they will last a long time for sure!
make sure the battery is a good one and use a good charger with it.
and a sunlight solar charger is good as a back up charger.
they loose .01 amps per day lost in the internal battery if it just sits there...

did you get the cold weather option?
battery heater, oil heater and fuel heater..
and we add on the fuel filter and water separator heaters as well
pm me if you need parts on those 
they can be added later for sure.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Browse Deweb said:


> You could always place a shed in front of it. This would help deflect noise as well.


The gen is far enough from the house and across the drive I'm not too worried about it. It's not really in view from where we are primarily in the house. Plus I'm out of money so a shed is out! lol I'm thinking one nice full pine or large shrub of some kind will work nicely. That eastern red cedar is exactly what I was picturing in my mind so thanks again.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

iowagold said:


> well done on the cat!
> make sure to make a cover for the control panel to keep the sun off the panel.
> and make sure the stack has a flapper or just place a soup can over it when not use to keep the rain snow and bugs out of it.
> and mud dauber resistant the air in and out.
> ...



Hi Paul, 

All your help was instrumental in getting me to this point so thank you again. As you pointed out, I am concerned about the intrusion of nesting insects and rodents on the unit. I was thinking attach some kind of stainless or polymer screen behind every grate on the enclosure. The existing grate has 1 inch square openings so not adequate for exclusion of insects. What are your thoughts on this?

The unit has the cold weather option. As it was described to me by CAT this keeps the internal enclosure completely heated so it's never too cold for any single component. 

It also has a battery tender that's run from the house via a totally separate wire and conduit. It's a CAT branded battery with 950 cca. Seems good to me. 

There is a flapper cap on the top of the exhaust already.

When you say a cover for the control panel it already has a locking door that has a weather seal all the way around it. Is there some other panel you are talking about?

Thanks!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

nope on the cover!
cool sounds like they have you set!
yea fabric screen would work...
just make sure it stays clean.
it can get corked fast with trash during a run if storms...

we have even used air filter material as a drop in for dust etc.
yea fill in what you can for the daubers...
they make all kinds of cool fire resistant stuff...

is it set as an ats setup or manual?
if it was a manual setup.
i would make a cover for the gen set!

and for the noise just use a cheap 80 buck or less chunk of privacy fence to keep it out of site
you can use t posts to put that up fast.
make sure to do the locates before driving the posts.

they are pretty quiet!
all that tier 4 and tier 5 stuff on them.
just a bit of rattle noise till it comes up to temp.
not near what they used to be!

cat makes a good setup.
that is why most of the Iowa utilities like water, phone, cable have now gone to cat gens.
hospitals have switched over from kohler here in town...
lol even our main electric utility has a cat gen on the dispatch tower here where i live!

lol a thought!
they now have that sticker material for cars...
you could do a skin for the gen set to make it blend in!
bricks, fence or wood grain, .... or even all out camo colors...
stealth mode for the new gen set! lol!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

iowagold said:


> nope on the cover!
> cool sounds like they have you set!
> yea fabric screen would work...
> just make sure it stays clean.
> ...


This gen is actually a tier 3 machine. Something about emergency standby only requires EPA tier 3. Very happy about that! The enclosure is the sound attenuated model with sound proofing all over the interior walls and muffler. Supposed to be no louder than an air conditioner.

The transfer switch is an ASCO automatic transfer switch. It is absolutely enormous! It seems to keep with the theme of over the top! Lol


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

good looking install!


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## Charlin (May 24, 2020)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Hi Paul,
> 
> All your help was instrumental in getting me to this point so thank you again. As you pointed out,* I am concerned about the intrusion of nesting insects and rodents on the unit. I was thinking attach some kind of stainless or polymer screen behind every grate on the enclosure. The existing grate has 1 inch square openings so not adequate for exclusion of insects. *What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> ...


That's a nice generator Gunenthusiast! I lost a 15 KW alternator last year due to a mud dauber nest. After I installed a new head on the engine, I used perforated sheeting with 1/8 in. holes over the grates that had larger openings. It won't stop ants and other small insects but no mud daubers or other types of wasps are going to get in. I'll put a link to the sheeting I used in case you don't know what I am referring to. 
MetalsDepot® - Buy Perforated Steel Sheet Online!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just make sure the air flow is the same.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Charlin said:


> That's a nice generator Gunenthusiast! I lost a 15 KW alternator last year due to a mud dauber nest. After I installed a new head on the engine, I used perforated sheeting with 1/8 in. holes over the grates that had larger openings. It won't stop ants and other small insects but no mud daubers or other types of wasps are going to get in. I'll put a link to the sheeting I used in case you don't know what I am referring to.
> MetalsDepot® - Buy Perforated Steel Sheet Online!


Thanks for the link! That looks like good stuff. Not cheap though. I agree with Paul, I would be concerned about the airflow. What size holes did you go with? How does the steel they use hold up to outside exposure over time? Does it rust?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i would use stainless on any fabric...
yea hard to keep out any pest that really wants in.
bug or other pest!

i have seen mice through such small cracks it is not even funny..

they make that spun stainless mesh for cooking range vent grease filter.... that might be an idea...
find a place that has used restaurant supplies or a salvage yard...
some of that is ultra high flow.
most of the home units are less than 16x16 inch
but for industrial they go large sizes.

watch the numbers on the % of open area...
the larger the number the better the air flow.
most of the 20 mesh i saw was at 52%...
so less than 50% of air flow...

in cool to cold weather it would be ok.
but on the super hot days like we have right now..
the temps can get run away fast...
the diesel will stand for the temp...
the electronics and the gen head will not stand for the over 300 deg f for long run...
i would do a thermo probe as wireless to the inside of the case with multi channels 
one on the gen head exhaust
one for the case or chassis inside.
and one somewhere on the back side of the control panel.

hey that brings up a good one!
what controller did you get with the new gen set?
does it have the lan connection for the live engine data?
there is a plug in unit for cat computer for blue tooth on the engine data.
they may have a wifi adapter for that as well.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Gunenthusiast said:


> This gen is actually a tier 3 machine. Something about emergency standby only requires EPA tier 3. Very happy about that! The enclosure is the sound attenuated model with sound proofing all over the interior walls and muffler. Supposed to be no louder than an air conditioner.
> 
> The transfer switch is an ASCO automatic transfer switch. It is absolutely enormous! It seems to keep with the theme of over the top! Lol
> 
> ...


i would mod that box a bit if it was me with extra meters and indicators...
but that is just me!

but this is under warranty....
unless you could ask the install guys if they do any mods for extra indicators and meters.

plenty of room in there for a bit of expansion.
nice clean install for sure!
i bet the inspection guy was giddy!! 
lol!


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## Charlin (May 24, 2020)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Thanks for the link! That looks like good stuff. Not cheap though. I agree with Paul, I would be concerned about the airflow. What size holes did you go with? How does the steel they use hold up to outside exposure over time? Does it rust?


I went with 1/8 inch holes 20 gauge thickness. I think if I was to do it over again I would go with 1/4 holes. It should still keep out wasps and snakes and lizards but allow for better airflow. I'm not sure of the coating. (Zinc maybe) It doesn't show any signs of rust yet.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the wasp will get in a 3/16 hole

just watch the open grid rating and stay over 75% open


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## Charlin (May 24, 2020)

iowagold said:


> *the wasp will get in a 3/16 hole*
> 
> just watch the open grid rating and stay over 75% open


I'm glad I went with the 1/8 then. You lost me on the over 75% open grid rating. Care to explain?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

it is the restriction rating.
the ratio of hole to material and air flow disruption.
and woven metal wire or "wire as fabric" does flow better volume than punch plate.
it has to do with the round wire...
but the square hole does disrupt the flow as well.

most good metal places have the flow % numbers math all done.
just search for suppliers.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Mine is the EMCP 4.2B Generator Set Controller. I'm not sure if it is has a LAN connection capability. I don't believe it does, but I may be wrong. When I ordered the gen there was a 3rd party remote monitoring product available, but it was nearly 2 grand and I didn't want the price to get out of hand. 

What extra meters and gauges are you referring to specifically? 

I'm still on the hunt for a high flow stainless screen. I like those perforated sheets, but to get the 1/8" holes to keep the wasps out, It looks like it may restrict airflow more than I want. Can't yet seem to find what I'm looking for in the sizes I need.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Just ordered this stuff cut to my exact sizes. Should be in next week.









Item # 8304.028PL-FP3X4, T-304 Stainless Steel Wire Mesh - 8 x 8 Mesh, 0.028" Diameter Wire On Edward J. Darby & Son, Inc.


Browse Item # 8304.028PL-FP3X4, T-304 Stainless Steel Wire Mesh - 8 x 8 Mesh, 0.028" Diameter Wire in the Edward J. Darby & Son, Inc. catalog including Item #,Item Name,Description,Material,Mesh,Wire Diameter,Piece Size,Width of Opening,% of Open Are




catalog.darbywiremesh.com


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## Charlin (May 24, 2020)

iowagold said:


> it is the restriction rating.
> the ratio of hole to material and air flow disruption.
> and woven metal wire or "wire as fabric" does flow better volume than punch plate.
> it has to do with the round wire...
> ...


Thanks for that explanation iowagold. I would not have thought there would be much difference between holes and woven material.


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## Charlin (May 24, 2020)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Just ordered this stuff cut to my exact sizes. Should be in next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that stainless mesh, I hope it works well for you. I'm going to stay with what I have and hope it breathes well enough. If it doesn't I'll figure something else out.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Gunenthusiast said:


> Another factor that was very surprising to me was the larger 40kw gen actually has very similar fuel burn per kw to the smaller 30kw unit. So while i will burn about 1 additional gallon of fuel per day, running at 20kw (or 50 percent), vs 66% on the 30kw unit, with a 250 gal tank that is nearly inconsequential.


Do you have the burn rate data in a chart/graphic you can share? I am curious to see it.



iowagold said:


> these are tier 3 and 4 machines... not sure if wet stacking is an issue with electronic injection.


Per Pauls speculation above - I presume the fuel injection will curb wet stacking. The question I would have is at low loads is the minimum amount of fuel to keep the engine running at rated RPM (1800 for 60hz) low enough to prevent "wet stacking"? And what wattage/electrical load does it take to require more power and, thus, more fuel beyond the minimum? Like is the first 10 or 15% load a flat line on the fuel consumption and it starts ramping up at 25%?

On CAT's site the only rating I see is the 40kw. If we take that as an absolute for running (the lower of the 2 conventional ratings - running/starting) that would put 25% at 10kw. When we don't have any heavy loads (AC, microwave, etc) we're under 2kw with the usual consumer electronics, lights, ceiling fans. If you take 2kw on the high end - and double it - you're at 4kw. That is still only 10% load on that 40kw unit.

If you look at what ever higher loads you may have - AC is the obvious one - if that bumps you up to 7kw (3.5kw X 2 units) and add that on top of your 4kw load from above (what I think is a high number) you're at 11kw. That is just barely over the 25% load number - if the AC's run simultaneously and not alternating.

Yeah, I'm leaving out a lot of other loads. Though, I think that 4kw number is enough to catch some of the miscellaneous kitchen loads (minus the range/oven on full blast). That is good for the fuel consumption numbers, but what does it do to the fuel injection and the engines' ability to burn the fuel that is there? Assuming it is warm out and the AC is running on routine cycles that would ramp the loading up a bit. Without much of the 4kw load, though, the 7kw from the AC's would be a good bit under 25%. What ever that jump is in load - is that adequate to get the engine past wet stacking? Or do you need to throw a bunch at it to get up closer to 75% for a period of time to exercise it?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

on the tier 4 and 5 units they really have the pulse sample rate as supper high...
way way better on the fuel map.
but tier 3 is real good on the map.
what is the hp rating on the gen set?
that has to do with the software and the injectors.
and those tags are on the computer.
just snap a pix is best.

I was involved with a year 2025 tier 5 setup this last week for epa testing and cert.
pretty cool on the fuel map!
a little 250 hp and a 600 hp unit.

to pass the epa thing it has to do with heat on engine, intake , charge air temps...
super narrow window to keep it at perfect at rated HP.
and the ramp up and down has to be perfect as well.
and no power robbing dpf! that was a real ha moment!

not quiet as clean as the ng Lp setups but they are getting super close!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

FlyFisher said:


> Do you have the burn rate data in a chart/graphic you can share? I am curious to see it.


This is all I have for published data. 
LC4.4 40kW TSS.pdf


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Gunenthusiast said:


> This is all I have for published data.
> LC4.4 40kW TSS.pdf


Interesting. They don't start the fuel consumption data until 50% with 2gal/hr. And standby is rated 4kw higher than prime use. I can understand the derate for prime, but the 50% load between the two goes from 20kw on standby (2.0galhr) to 18kw on prime (1.8gal/hr). 18kw is a lotta power!!!


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Well we've lost power 6 times since installing the CAT generator! The gen comes on every time without a hickup! What an impressive machine. The best part is the wife now concedes the piece of mind and convenience this beast provides was worth the cost. I get all giddy when we loose power and the gen kicks on. haha


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cat does make an impressive rock solid gen set system!
just keep the mice and birds out of the wiring!


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## Carlccfd (Aug 20, 2021)

I have talked with the kohler rep and with the techinical department. There coustomer service is wonderful and they know what they are talking about


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

iowagold said:


> on the tier 4 and 5 units
> 
> I was involved with a year 2025 tier 5 setup this last week for epa testing.
> 
> ...


Really interested to hear how the tier 5 is getting away from DPF!

Do they run a SCR system still? 

Surely this is only for constant speed applications!

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

SCR system ????
that is a dpf...

off road. heavy equipment application

and no on the constant rpm.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I think that SCR is pretty much a DPF with the addition of urea injection for NOx reduction. On road diesel gets all the emission reduction systems. Off road diesel is subject to reduced standards. DPF or SCR would be a huge hinderance in a generator application.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup
avoid any restriction unless you need the extra heat for the clean burn.

if done right,,,,, a diesel can be super clean....
but it takes a good tune guy to map the setup...
think computer geek!
GRIN!


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

iowagold said:


> yup
> avoid any restriction unless you need the extra heat for the clean burn.
> 
> if done right,,,,, a diesel can be super clean....
> ...


 yeah, restrictions... welcome to diesels.
SCR and DPF are different, they work in tandem, but aren't the same. 
I didn't know if gen engines are small enough to get under the radar. Offroad stuff is tier 4 final now too.

Definitely good to know!

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Hello All,

Just wanted to give you an update on the CAT. Operation has been flawless. Gen has been used for about 14 power outages since install in June of 21. Most were very short with the longest being around 5 hours. Got a nice letter in the mail from CAT a few months back. They were running a limited time promotion on standby generator sales and I must have qualified with my purchase. They gave me a 5 year full warranty on the gen at no charge! Nice little bonus! 

The gen has 26.2 hours since new including outages, it's initial 3 hour test at full load on a load bank, and weekly 20 minute runs. Got my first fuel delivery to top off the tank last week. I was interested to see how I was doing for average fuel consumption. It took 40.2 gallons to top it off divided by the 26.2 hours comes in at 1.53 gallons per hour on average. Not bad at all for a C4.4L turbo diesel. So far very happy with everything.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cat makes a nice setup!
and they are one of the best in the Biz for sure!


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