# 240V plug meter



## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Hey y'all. I am in SE TX and am looking to get a generator. Dual fuel ideally. I want to be able to run an electric dryer. (Cue all the eye rolling now) I don't use my AC so I don't have that to worry about, just fans. Anyway. Plate on dryer says 5600 watts running. Some internet sources say 6750 starting watts, others say more like 1500. I have been looking into a Killowat type of meter to tell me if adjusting the settings on the dryer to lower the heat to xtra low can reduce the load on a generator. Or any ideas on how to get an idea of ballpark wattage usage. 
I've been down a few rabbit holes so far concerning THD, generator paralleling, dryer modifications... I wanted a Dewalt, then the big Westinghouse. I do ALOT of laundry sometimes and everyone tells me to get a clothesline. But it rained for 3 weeks straight during Harvey and I'd have been up to my ears in moldy laundry if I'd have lost power. 
I've asked this question on 2 Facebook pages, one for Generators the other for retirees and all I get is forget the dryer, but I think I can make it work. TYIA


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Get a gas dryer and run it on propane for the heat. That would be my recommendation. 

To answer your question on the meters:








100A AC LCD Panel Digital Power Watt Meter Monitor Voltage KWh Voltmeter Ammeter | eBay


It can be reset to zero via reset button. The reset function of energy key. Accuracy: ±1%. Wiring order can’t be wrong. Display format Backlight function. About Setting .



www.ebay.com





I have several of the type of meter in the link above. I use them for both 120v and 240v loads. 

Note that the digital read out is not instantaneous. If you are trying to meter a motor or compressor you will not catch the locked rotor amps - the digital readout isn't fast enough, nor peak reading (just an accumulation of KWH).


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

From what I know about them, The heating element is either on or off, it cycles based on where it's set. e.g. If it's a 5,000 watt dryer the generator must be sized for that plus your other outage loads. So, if the setting is lower, the drum will spin which is negligible wattage with the heating element turning on and off which is the big wattage. You can get the actual wattage of YOUR dryer by looking at the nameplate or manual. Starting wattage vs running is not really a consideration for a dryer, that's for large motors, well pumps, AC units. 

Be aware that you will need a generator with a 120/240V outlet as dryers run on 240V. Also, you'll need a generator disconnect and generator inlet box installed by an electrician. Based on the 5,000W example above, you'll probably have another 2-3,000 watts consumed by lights, frig, freezer, in your house. So, a 7-10,000 watt generator would be needed. That size unit will be very thirsty in terms of fuel consumption. If you go with dual fuel, when using propane the wattage is reduced by 10% from gasoline. So, depending on your frequency and duration of outages fuel storage must be considered. 

An alternative could be purchasing a small 120V dryer for use in outages, 1800W and could be powered by a heavy duty extension cord from the generator eliminating the disconnect, inlet box, and electrician. Additional house loads could be powered by other extension cords. Not as convenient and are trip hazards but the cheapest way to go, again, frequency and duration of outages must be considered. Generator size would drop to 5,000 watts, initial cost and fuel consumption would drop accordingly.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i agree an LP dryer is a better plan.
electric dryer is an energy hog.
soooo....
if you have to use the BIG electric dryer...
you need a large gen set...
so maybe a whole house gen set that drinks fuel for when you have to run the larger stuff...

and a small gen set just to run the small stuff when you do not need all of the BIG power stuff to run.

or buy enough clothes that you can go 2 weeks with out doing laundry....
and go to town where they have power to use the large bank of washers and dryers at 50-80 bucks a trip...
plus fuel to get there and back home...
chances are you do need a re supply run after 2 weeks....


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

My electric dryer draws right around 5500 watts measured with a meter. A drying cycle ranges from about 30 minutes to about and hour. You want a generator sized to support that load continuous for an hour. A 5500watt rated generator should handle the task. but you’ll need to essentially dedicate the generator to only the dryer During that time. If this is your priority a bump to a slighter bigger generator would be prudent.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

I'm in the same boat. I have a 5000/6250 Coleman generator. The electric dryer is 5600w. The Coleman is not big enough to run it. Drying clothes is not necessarily a priority unless the outage lasts longer than a week or two. Luckily, that's rare in my area. I hadn't thought about a 120v clothes dryer, though. Maybe something like what a travel trailer uses? Do they have those?


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Electrician is supposed to contact me end of this week to quote a transfer switch or interlock system. No ng in my area, so propane, but not until next year as standby systems have to have a purchased tank because I don't use enough propane. $4000 for a 500 gallon tank. So gas is it for this year at least. I can adjust other usage while running dryer to lessen overall usage. 
Thanks for your answer. Sincerely appreciated.


exmar said:


> From what I know about them, The heating element is either on or off, it cycles based on where it's set. e.g. If it's a 5,000 watt dryer the generator must be sized for that plus your other outage loads. So, if the setting is lower, the drum will spin which is negligible wattage with the heating element turning on and off which is the big wattage. You can get the actual wattage of YOUR dryer by looking at the nameplate or manual. Starting wattage vs running is not really a consideration for a dryer, that's for large motors, well pumps, AC units.
> 
> Be aware that you will need a generator with a 120/240V outlet as dryers run on 240V. Also, you'll need a generator disconnect and generator inlet box installed by an electrician. Based on the 5,000W example above, you'll probably have another 2-3,000 watts consumed by lights, frig, freezer, in your house. So, a 7-10,000 watt generator would be needed. That size unit will be very thirsty in terms of fuel consumption. If you go with dual fuel, when using propane the wattage is reduced by 10% from gasoline. So, depending on your frequency and duration of outages fuel storage must be considered.
> 
> An alternative could be purchasing a small 120V dryer for use in outages, 1800W and could be powered by a heavy duty extension cord from the generator eliminating the disconnect, inlet box, and electrician. Additional house loads could be powered by other extension cords. Not as convenient and are trip hazards but the cheapest way to go, again, frequency and duration of outages must be considered. Generator size would drop to 5,000 watts, initial cost and fuel consumption would drop accordingly.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

LaSwamp said:


> I'm in the same boat. I have a 5000/6250 Coleman generator. The electric dryer is 5600w. The Coleman is not big enough to run it. Drying clothes is not necessarily a priority unless the outage lasts longer than a week or two. Luckily, that's rare in my area. I hadn't thought about a 120v clothes dryer, though. Maybe something like what a travel trailer uses? Do they have those?


Yes they do! I've even seen vids where enterprising people have modified their own dryers to convert to 120v, but as mine is fairly new and stacked, I'd probably kill myself trying to do that!


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

iowagold said:


> i agree an LP dryer is a better plan.
> electric dryer is an energy hog.
> soooo....
> if you have to use the BIG electric dryer...
> ...


Thank you. These are the kinds of answers I was hoping for. Propane is a good idea. Next year as right now the house is all electric and I am a believer in diversification of resources. Quoted 4000 for a new 500 gal propane tank as leased isn't an option since I don't use enough. Looked into used... Anyway. 2 gens I thought of and hooking them together but seems paralleling can be fatal if done improperly.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> Hey y'all. I am in SE TX and am looking to get a generator. Dual fuel ideally. I want to be able to run an electric dryer. (Cue all the eye rolling now) I don't use my AC so I don't have that to worry about, just fans.


Just out of curiosity - are you off-grid by chance? 

The discussion thus far seems a bit weird to me for a generator environment. Don't read in to that too far, just a simple observation. 

I do want to reinforce the point about fuel consumption. This parallels, very much so, the idea of being "off grid", but really ties in with any "long term" usage of power sources (by "long term" I am referring to days, not a few hours after a storm outage). 

When it comes to fuel - what determines your run time are 2 things:

Volume of fuel available
Fuel consumption

Fuel consumption in and of itself is based on 2 things:

Size of engine
Wattage drawn

All engine driven generators will have some "minimum fuel burn" simply to have them running and able to have electrical power drawn from them. That fuel usage is doing nothing for you other than having the availability of the generator running from which to instantly get electricity (as opposed to the generator being off, needing to start it, then you get power). 

At some point as you draw power from the generator the fuel consumption will rise. That is because the electrical draw on the unit will load the alternator. That increased load on the alternator will require more and more power to spin. So once the engine needs to increase the power the carb opens and lets more air/fuel in so that it can produce the needed power. 

What your fuel consumption curve will look like on every fuel burning generator is you will start at that idle, no load, fuel consumption then it will slope up to the burn rate at peak power. Generally this is the max running wattage (as opposed to the max starting wattage) since the units are spec'd at outputting the "running wattage" for a long period of time (hence "running" wattage). 

Your ACTUAL fuel consumption will fall anywhere on this curve at any point in time. Your OVERALL fuel consumption is roughly comparable to your consumed KWH of power. 

With that all out of the way lets get in to the nitty grittys. 

Simply stated - what you are trying to do is not practical. 

To elaborate:

You are trying to run a gasoline generator large enough to power an electric dryer (a huge load for 99% of people that run backup generators - and yes most of us are rolling our eyes over that one , but if it is important to you and your family then that is most certainly your choice). Yes, the electric dryer is not going to be running all the time, only intermittently. However, let me give you a few numbers to wrap your mind around:

My 15kw generator burns, loosely, around the 1.5 gallon per hour rate. This adds up to 36 gallons of gasoline per day. It will power the 2 AC units here and everything else in the house. But it is a thirsty unit. 

At 5,600 watts (a figure used earlier in this thread on the power draw of a dryer) - lets say you got a single generator for that one electrical load. What you SHOULD do is size up the generator and give yourself about 25% head room on the running wattage for your load. This will let the unit run at a lower load %, instead of running it at max load (and the wear and tear, heat, etc). That will put you at a 7500 watt class generator.

Here is an 8kw unit for example (8kw starting/6600w running - so it is smaller than the 7500w running figure above, but will work for numbers). It is quality, by the way - Honda engine, not sure exactly what alternator on this one but their 15kw units use a Mecc Alte = top notch and most often NorthStar is considered a top-notch generator. 


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200464517_200464517



The fuel consumption is 10hrs @ 1/2 load. 1/2 of 6600w is 3300w. The fuel tank is 6.5 gallons. If we compute that out at 1/2 load it burns .65 gal/hr. 

Obviously, at 5600 watts from your dryer you are going to draw more fuel for that period of time the heating elements are on (I imagine they pulse depending on what level heat you have the dryer set to). 

For worst case example - lets say you run the dryer on max heat for a 1.5 hour load run, and you do 4 of those in a row. That gives you 6 hours run time and we'll use that max wattage just to give a worst case here. 5600w will draw more fuel than the 1/2 load 3300w on the example generator. So lets call it .85gal/hr (noticeably more, but not knowing the full load fuel consumption it is still a guess - I am trying to be reasonable with the guess). 

6*.85 = *5.1 gallons of gas*

Now - figure if you are running on gen power for a 2 week period after a hurricane (you said you are in SE texas so I would imagine that is a prime condition that you want to be prepared for). How many runs of the clothes dryer are you going to need to do in that period of time? 

The big question - how much fuel is your house power going to consume? You need to run things like your refrigerator, lights, and fans pretty much all the time so you are going to have to have some power source running. Remember what I said about a minimum fuel consumption of an engine driven generator? Here is where it is important.

If you decide to step up the generator to a 15kw like what we have (we have more, thats the big one) and wish to run that for everything - you are burning fuel just to swing that huge engine and alternator, whether you need all that power or not. So, yes, you will have that electrical power available at any time, but you are paying DEARLY for it in fuel consumption!! 

Consider a 2 week power outage - if you had my 15kw unit burning 1.5 gallons of gasoline per hour, 36 gallons per day that would be (14*36) = 504 gallons of gasoline. 

Where are you going to get 504 gallons of gasoline during the aftermath of a hurricane? 
Or,
Where are you going to store 504 gallons of gasoline preparing for a storm outage ahead of the storm? 

You are not going to go to a gas station after a big storm like that and get gasoline - they aren't going to be able to pump it. Been there, been through that, no thanks. 

You can trim down the gasoline consumption by using a small and much more efficient inverter generator. If you aren't running AC like you state and just want to run the essentials - lights, fans, refrigerator - a Honda EU2200i would get you plenty of power. That is the small one I use all the time myself. 

Then you would need a large generator for the dryer - if that is an electrical load that you desperately need to run. 

I ask again, though, how are you going to supply fuel??? 

That same 5 gallons of gas that you burn in 4 dryer loads can power your house for about a day and a half (if I have my figures right - my EU2200i burns about .14gal/hr = 5 gallons would go ~36 hours). 

Lets talk propane now. 

That same 15kw unit I have will burn around ~4lbs propane per hour. Or, 1x 100lb tank per day. 

For the same 14 day/2 week stretch - that computes out to 1,344 pounds per 2 weeks. 1gal of propane is about 4.8lbs. So 1,344lbs is equivalent to 280 gallons. 

Something else you need to be aware of with propane is that you shouldn't draw your propane supply down below 30%. The reason for this is you need pressure to create your fuel flow. If the volume of propane in the tank drops too low you don't have enough volume in the tank to generate pressure. So your fuel flow stops because the pressure can't push through your regulators even though your tank isn't "empty". Remember, you are consuming propane as a GAS. It is stored as a LIQUID. It does not flow like liquid gasoline. It has to go from a liquid to a gas then operate at a higher pressure. Hence the 30% rule on the tank volume. 

With the same 280 gallon figure above - tacking on an extra 30% for the left overs in the tank that would bring the appropriate tank volume up to 400 gallons (70% of 400 is 280). 

Hopefully this post has enough in it to get you to really think about what you are after. As your power consumption goes up your fuel usage goes up tremendously. That is one of the things that most of us have to manage in our own ways. Those of us that have Natural Gas piped in don't have the same problem. Because the gas is piped in we don't have the tank volume issue - we have an unlimited supply. That is where whole-house built-in units are nice - they can power up and run indefinitely to run everything in the house with no concern of how much fuel is burned (yes, cost is a concern - but physical availability of the fuel is not - as is fuel in gas tanks or propane tanks that you have to run out, fill up, and bring back). 

However - 

What happens when natural gas lines get turned off?? 

Anyone that runs on 100% natural gas for back up power is hosed.

So anyone would be very wise to have gasoline and propane as options for generator power. And - having a small inverter generator, even though they won't run a whole house (AC etc), will be a blessing to have in that case. An inverter generator can run for a long time on a little gas to keep the necessities going - refrigerator, lights, fans. 

Lots to think about.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

This is the kind of reply I love. Thank you. Well thought out and precise. 
I imagine most people here in SE TX use propane to run back up generators. I'm a bit late to the party so I'm planning on setting up my propane hopefully next year. It's 4000 for a 500 gal tank. They won't lease me one as I won't be using enough. 
The dryer will be used about 2x per week. It's just me and my dogs. I just don't want to get a small gen and find out that I can't dry laundry outside due to rain and the gen I got is too small. I was going to look into paralleling them: get a med sized gen for fridge and such and a smaller one for tv cell phones microwave etc. Then when it was time to dry some laundry, hook them together to get enough watts to power the dryer. But from what I have found paralleling the gens is hazardous to do if ur not experienced and can fry everything involved. So no. 

My ideal gen is around 8 running 10 starting, dual fuel or convertible, I looked at North Star gens w Honda engines. One comment from a customer threw me on that. An older lady was having trouble because Honda would only work on the motor and the gen set maker only the generator part. She felt that a gen all from one manufacturer was better and I agree. But the Honda gens are a bit too expensive at 5000. I'm sure they're worth it but who is the second best gen manufacturer? I have a Toyota truck I've had for 27 years. I love good quality and am willing to pay for it, but Honda might be just a bit too far out of my ballpark right now. 
As far as fuel supply, I'd be flying by the seat of my pants. Thing is, I've not had a gen that I could use for most of my adult life. Having one will be a luxury. If I run out of gas before I can plumbed for propane, oh well. I'm used to roughing it. Or I will really cut down on usage if it becomes obvious that getting fuel is going to be impossible.


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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

Jtaraba, a clothes dryer? In SE Texas? And no A/C, but running fans? In THIS heat and humidity? Man, you are tougher than I am. Listen, I dried clothes for a total of twenty-seven days in Rita and Ike, all hung on a ski rope I found floating in the Neches river (found it with my prop). Tied it between two trees: sixty five feet of daily display of all our underwear and her bras. Even in this SE Texas humidity they dry fast. Forget that dryer! Cowboy up and tell her she's gonna' have to rough it for a few days like her grandma had to every day. Tell her AT LEAST she ain't down at the river beating y'all's clothes on a rock. And if you feel like gambling with your life, when you tell her where you are going to hang her new clothes lines, tell her that you are going to require her to LIKE IT!

P.S. Been doing SE Texas hurricanes since the 60's, back to Carla. Never seen it rain after a hurricane. See it get unbearably hot after every one of them. Get at least ONE window A/C unit.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

What a good thread, you guys have the best answers no matter how weird the question.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

cosmic said:


> What a good thread, you guys have the best answers no matter how weird the question.


Was that a weird question??😂😂😂


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

Jtaraba said:


> Was that a weird question??😂😂😂


I thought running an electric dryer which gobbles power was strange, there are other ways to dry clothes. 
I'm in Florida and we get the same issues with hurricanes, keeping the fridge, fans and lights running without consuming too much fuel are my priorities.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

cosmic said:


> I thought running an electric dryer which gobbles power was strange, there are other ways to dry clothes.
> 
> Fair enough. What about those with whole house generators? They are obviously for more than lights and the fridge. Is that weird too? Just wondering.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

well for a temp solution to the lp
use a few 100 lb tanks....

will the LP guys rent the large tank to you???
it is worth the ask on that!

or try to find a used tank....


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

="Jtaraba, post: 84264, member: 39399"]

[/QUOTE]


You can build whatever kind of set up you want to power whatever you want that's your choice. 
An LP dryer would be your best bet, very efficient in the long run.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea i vote the LP dryer.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Interesting and far ranging thread. One of the fun things about these forums are the things you learn. $4,000 for a 500 gallon propane tank. When we built the house 20 years ago, the local propane outfit said I didn't need a tank and just needed cylinders. We had a bit of a spirted discussion and I have a 500 gallon tank at no cost, however as I don't use the amount of propane they require, $40/ year fee which I'm glad to pay to have the fuel "cushion." Just got the "Summer fill up" today, $1.69 per gallon. No idea what the current charges are for tanks.

Given the increased cost of a larger generator, higher fuel consumption, and storage of fuel, I'd look into a 120V dryer as they're only 1800W. Not as big, probably take longer but would satisfy your requirement. I recall there was one in the Apartment I rented while going to school, don't remember a lot about it since that was 1970, but they do work. You could then get by with a 3500W generator and extension cords. That size generator would be a manual start. I just bought a back up generator, a Firman, 3550/4650W 14 hour run time at half load for $420 delivered. It's an open frame, high THD but does what I need. I'm not suggesting Firman, just what I ended up buying after looking around. That arrangement would get you through the upcoming (already here?) Hurricane season.

So, a year from now you'll have your 500 gallon propane tank, replace your electric dryer with gas and perhaps some other appliances as well. Now you could get more serious about a long term generator. You'll have to have a gas line and electrical connection installed where the generator will be operating. The 8-10,000W generators are portable, so you'll be hauling it to that point, connecting and starting. Give some thought to where that will be, and weather protection, generators don't like to be rained on. e.g. I put mine on the front porch (roof only), close the windows on that side of the house and all is well. 

Whole house generators are about convenience as well as being larger to supply more electrical loads. They're in a weather proof enclosure, connected and ready 24/7, power goes out, they start and pick up the designated loads and you don't do anything. Obviously, you pay for the convenience, wild guess $15-20,000+ to have one installed. Most folks evaluate frequency and duration of outages in determining portable, whole house, and size of unit. When we first moved here, 48-72 hour outages were routine during the early spring due to ice storms. Now, a 12 hour outage is rare. 

Guess I'm suggesting that buying a smaller generator and a smaller dryer and extension cords could be done in a week or so. Buying your permanent generator a year in advance of propane install, etc. could be problematic.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

I gotta tell y'all. This really turned out to be a giant pain. I honestly thought: ok, everyone down here uses AC. I don't. I don't care about hot water so much so no water heater. I don't hardly cook except for a mwave and a toaster oven- so my dryer will take the place of all those big ticket (powerwise) items. 
And when I (we @ the time) bought this place, all electric appliances didn't bother me. Being in the country, that's how it is. I'm lucky to have "city" water, but no ng. 
Apparently, here in TX, we are in the midst of a huge propane tank shortage. Propane dude said I couldn't get a tank right now if I wanted to and could afford the $$$. So I thought I'd get a decent gen that could run on gasoline, but could be converted to propane next year when everyone that froze last winter gets their tanks and the tank makers catch up.
I definitely have been more focused on enough wattage rather than fuel economy and I think I'd feel best about spending a bunch of money on a gen that would do what I want rather than just the bare minimum. What I was thinking was: look into a gen that would power the dryer alone. So 6500/8000 w headroom. I'd have to shut everything else off while using it but at least I could in a pinch.
I'm starting to feel like such a woman in a man's world! 😂😂


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

take a look at this site for LP tanks
500 Gallon Above Ground Propane Tank
they show the 500 gallon for 1,625.00 usd as of 28 july 2021.

then you have to pipe it, regulators etc...

check in with the ag places near you to see if they have LP tank options...

120 volt dryers
Amazon.com : 120V Electric Clothes Dryer

looks like $300 to $400 is the price range...
1700 watts at 120 vac 60hz

question for ya.
do you have any sheds or open garage on the property?
maybe a trailer gen set, with onboard fuel tank?
role it in to place when you need it...
diesel?????
they make those light tower gens... 4 kw min output on those....
and you can find them on the cheap...
just a thought....


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Getting a generator is not a fast and easy thing due to all the variables involved. Unlike guys, you are asking questions and interacting to get an understanding of what's involved.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

amen exmar!
kicking things around is a good plan!

make a good plan, and spend the money once!


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

iowagold said:


> take a look at this site for LP tanks
> 500 Gallon Above Ground Propane Tank
> they show the 500 gallon for 1,625.00 usd as of 28 july 2021.
> 
> ...


I have tons of garage space! Huge 3 bay garage. Center was for a motor home so tall too. I also have an f250 diesel truck so towing is not a problem. I will look into the tank link you sent. I did only call one propane dealer here and took his word that "nobody!" could get a propane tank now. 
The 120v dryer looks good too. At the beginning of this journey I was almost gonna get one of those laundry spinners that pre spins the water out of the clothes so that they dry faster! 
Light tower gens....


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> An older lady was having trouble because Honda would only work on the motor and the gen set maker only the generator part. She felt that a gen all from one manufacturer was better and I agree.





Jtaraba said:


> I love good quality and am willing to pay for it, but Honda might be just a bit too far out of my ballpark right now.





Jtaraba said:


> Thing is, I've not had a gen that I could use for most of my adult life. Having one will be a luxury. If I run out of gas before I can plumbed for propane, oh well. I'm used to roughing it. Or I will really cut down on usage if it becomes obvious that getting fuel is going to be impossible.





Jtaraba said:


> I definitely have been more focused on enough wattage rather than fuel economy and I think I'd feel best about spending a bunch of money on a gen that would do what I want rather than just the bare minimum.


First off you came to the right place to get some good, honest info from people that use this kind of equipment - and not salesmen trying to make a buck off of hooking you on a sale. Compare everything everyone has to say and use your judgement as to what direction you ultimately want to go. The info you gain in this thread, and others if you read some of the older threads, is all good info to weigh your options. 

In tune with honest feedback - I think you are going to have a hard row to hoe on what you are trying to get. I get the impression that you want a hands free (very minimal interaction from you) power solution that uses next to no fuel, doesn't cost a lot of money, is easy to maintain, and will last a lifetime. That, unfortunately, does not exist. 

You are correct about the split between Honda and the generator manufacturer on the "service" aspect. Honda will work on their engines only. There is a ton of equipment that uses Honda engines (for a very good reason - they are excellent engines!!). You can't expect Honda to service everything their engines make their way in to - because 95% of that equipment they didnt make - only the engine. That is not a reason to shy away from them - that was one thing I looked for shopping for a generator. Long story, but I found the big one (15kw) I have second hand for a song and dance. It had never been run by the previous owner - they bought it, never installed it, then the pandemic hit and they ended up relocating. That aside, I bargained a bit not expecting much more of a "deal", but offered enough to let the seller know I was a serious buyer. He came down more than I expected and that was that. The engine alone was worth way more than I paid. And I found, after the sale and after I got it home, the alternator is a Mecc Alte (the gold standard alternator in this class - 15kw 3600rpm). I will say, there is no "warranty" for it because it is past the warranty period. That doesn't bother me a bit - I do my own work first off, both the engine and alternator are quality, and the unit never ran so there is no question on usage and maintenance - only my doing which I can do as best as I can (proper maintenance intervals, higher quality oil, zddp additive, oil filter magnet, oil drain valve, etc, etc). Honda equipment is so popular, also, that getting parts down the road should not be much of an issue. 

If you want an easy, hands-free solution (using the old lady example in the north star gen quoted above as an example) - I don't think a portable generator is the right place for you to be. You need to have some "know how" to get the best use out of them. You can't just buy a generator and expect it to work all the time on the spot. If you leave gasoline in it for a long time, for example, it will gum up the carb and fuel lines (been there, done that - I've rebuilt the carb on my 2600w unit about 3-4 times and the carb on my dads unit, around 7kw, once or twice). If the SHTF and you have to have power - are you going to have all the know-how and ability to dig in to your unit to get it to run? Or are you going to be calling someone to work on it for you, or will you take it somewhere to have it worked on?

Again, I don't mean to sound harsh at all - just giving an honest observation and some honest feedback for you to add in to your "things to consider" internal discussion. 

What you might want to investigate, if for nothing else than to gain information and to broaden your knowledge of options, is to look at built-in units. The reason is there are service plans that you can get for these where a guy will come out and do the maintenance, test runs, etc for you. The 2 major down sides to this type of unit and service plan: 1. They are expensive
2. Who is to say if your unit goes down during a hurricane type disaster period that the service dudes are going to be able to get to you in a reasonable amount of time to fix your unit and get your power back up before your food spoils in your fridge? 

The major upsides to them:
1. All the "work" is done for you, less for you to get your hands dirty with
2. You can literally power your whole house with them

Considering the idea of a whole-house built in unit - a few observations:
- Stay away from Generac. Don't get ideas of even talking to a salesmen just to probe. There are too many horror stories about them. You don't know me from joe jerkhoff down the street, nor do I know you, but I think everyone on the forum would join me in honestly recommending you steer clear of Generac. 

- Kohler is iffy. There is a recent thread of an install here that you might check out and touch base with the owner for some direct feedback. My understanding is Kohler is very much "regional": If you end up with a "good" dealer in your area then they may be at least worth a consideration. That service, I think, is one of the selling points you should give consideration to and, ultimately, that service, and quality of, is very much regional. However, on the commercial side (prime use, peak shaving, etc for commercial/industrial facilities) my understanding is a lot of places are going away from Kohler and going to CAT. CAT is not a player in the residential arena, they don't start until around the 30-40kw range which is extremely high for even large homes/properties, although some homeowners do have them (there is a forum member on here that recently had one such large unit installed). When you get down to the residential wattages Kohler is a contender (residential wattages being, say, 25kw and under). 

- 1800 RPM units with pressurized oil and liquid cooled engines will be a lot longer life, better on fuel, and quieter than any 3600 RPM unit, no matter how the unit is packaged and set up. There is a large jump between a 3600 RPM air cooled unit and an 1800 RPM liquid cooled unit. Think of the difference between a small car and a lawn tractor. What engine would you expect to run longer? If you drove your car across the country, say, 3000 miles, would it make it with only stopping for fuel? Would you run a lawn tractor the same length of time (not distance) and expect it to run without an issue or without requiring significant maintenance? Does a car cost more than a lawn tractor? Same difference with a liquid cooled 1800 RPM generator. You can pretty much triple the cost of a built-in unit when you step to an 1800 rpm/liquid cooled engine generator over a 3600 rpm/air cooled one. You stated you will pay for quality, to an extent. Well here is a prime area where that statement couldn't carry more weight - it would be well worth the investment, in my book, to look at an 1800 rpm/liquid cooled unit. We are having that discussion, as a matter of fact. The one I have my eye on is the Cummins RS25 for example. At 25kw it is way bigger than what we need (if we could get one around 18kw that would be ideal - we're fine on a 15kw right now, but going to that 18kw range would give us a bit more head room for comfort). However, there are very few units in this size range that are 1800 RPM and liquid cooled. There are some RV class generators smaller. However, oddly enough, they are more expensive than the RS25. 

On the subject of Honda engines - if you want an affordable, quality unit then Honda engines are hard to beat. In my case, the 15kw unit I have is a bare-bones unit with a single 50 amp plug and 50 amp breaker. Thats all I want. I can split that however I need. For the price - even if bought new compared to other new options in the same wattage range - it would still be worth it. The engine is a 3600 RPM air cooled engine, however it does have pressurized oil. Of these types of engines - the Honda GX series (this is a GX690) and the Briggs & Stratton commercial Vanguard series (re-engineered/re-designed a few years back to give Honda a run for their money - and they have given Honda a run for their money in the commercial world) are the best engines you can buy. That is a good place to be for a reliable piece of equipment. That and parts availability is great, service info is great, and maintenance descriptions are clear/well thought out.

There are no installed whole-house units on the market today that I would rather have, quality-wise, than the 15kw we already have until we get in to the $13,000-$17,000 range for a Cummins RS25. None of the engines in the 3600 rpm built-in units are going to be any better than what we have. There are some out there [ex: Winco PSS12H2W/F @ $6k] that do use the same GX690. However, if we have one already - why bother??? From a quality perspective and keeping the power on in a long-duration outage we are no better off with a built-in unit because we already have the best engine and alternator out there in this class. All we're gaining is the "built in" infrastructure - the concrete pad, enclosure, wiring conduit, etc, etc. That isn't worth more than 6x what we've spent to net us the same engine and about the same output power expectations.

The key to the money savings above - being a smart buyer and having the know-how to make things work. If you don't have the skills, abilities, and/or patience of the latter - then a service plan from a dealer you can trust might be your next best option, although very expensive.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

wow on not able to get an LP tank...
we are closer to that here in Iowa in a few months as they use LP to dry corn and soy beens.
there was a shortage of small tanks here in Iowa due to covid and more folks were staying at home and grilling!
I have always had 6 grill tanks ready to go and do not use the exchange system on tanks.

corn crops are looking good so far.
we could use a bit of rain any time.

how about rent a trailer and go out of state to buy an LP tank...
or hire it done.
*but do not wait much longer!*
we are already getting in to prime LP season in another 2 months.

*click here for 100 lb tanks*
*right now they run 190.00 as of 07/29/2021... empty they weigh in at 101 lbs so not to bad to ship them.

have you looked in to if you can even have LP tanks in your area?
and how much you can have on the property?

same on gasoline...

lots of fuel storage and transport regs these days in some areas of the country....
some are DNR (state) , FIRE (state and local), then DOT transport can be state and federal depending on how far an what roads. *

ask a lot of questions for sure!

that brings up a great question are you able to buy LP right now in your area?
consider join up with a AG coop that carries LP as a fuel!
some of those memberships are low cost!
and they have their own people to deliver fuel to your location.
and they have programs to be able to buy a years worth of fuel at today's market price...
folks here play the market that way. buying futures!
and they deliver when you need it.

great point fly on the service during a storm event!
as a service guy we get super busy... and those who are on a service plan get first priority...

school of hard knocks on that for sure...
folks who are able to do basic service will get along with a portable gen system...

if you cannot move around 300 lbs on wheels....
and connect a few basic cords, and throw a few breakers...
or if you can break a crow bar in a sand box... (lol we all know they type)
you should be a no touch generator customer... and get a service contract from a *GOOD *company.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

oh yea light tower generator
*click here for the light tower search*
*there are a few larger ones on the bay right now!
most can be had at $3000.00 to $10,000.00 depending on hours etc.
some are 1800 rpm diesel units! 
some have mec gen heads!
all of them are trailer tow units.
cool item if you have kids and like eve ball games in remote places...
or do construction in remote places.... lights and power!
cool concept!*


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Ok. I feel like I have made a decision. The Honda em6500. Electric start. Only 500 more than the em5000. Available at northern tool but backordered.
I am fine w regular engine maintenance. I have a 1994 Toyota pickup that I have done all the work on since I got it in 1994 and it has almost 350,000 miles on it. It did go to a Toyota shop for timing chain replacement(s) twice, as that's a bit out of my ballpark. As far as moving the gen around- no problem. I haul 50lb feed bags around all the time and am quite strong for my gender! I'm also extremely resourceful and can figure something out in a pinch. What y'all think? And be kind!!! I know you will. 😌


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> Ok. I feel like I have made a decision. The Honda em6500. Electric start. Only 500 more than the em5000.





Jtaraba said:


> I am fine w regular engine maintenance. I have a 1994 Toyota pickup that I have done all the work on since I got it in 1994 and it has almost 350,000 miles on it. It did go to a Toyota shop for timing chain replacement(s) twice, as that's a bit out of my ballpark.





Jtaraba said:


> What y'all think? And be kind!!! I know you will. 😌


Good deal on the truck maintenance. You'll be in good shape then. Perhaps tearing in to a unit if you run in to an odd issue would be a nuisance, but you can get through it from the sounds of it.

All the Honda generators are good, the EM6500 is no exception.

Personally, I think the price of the whole Honda units (as opposed to third party companies using Honda engines only) is on the high side. However, they are certainly quality units. From your standpoint of wanting everything serviceable under the one brand that would certainly help off-set the higher cost in that case.

Those units are not dual fuel from the get-go. They are gasoline-only.

All gasoline engines can be adapted to run on natural gas and propane. However, what might be pretty important to you to know up front is modifying any Honda engine for such purpose will void the warranty of the engine. I have heard that there are some third party generator companies that have agreements with Honda where purchasing the generator already set up for propane/natural gas will not void the engine warranty. The Winco unit in the link I sent earlier is set up for natural gas and propane, for example, though I don't see real quick what the "engine warranty", specifically, is, only a 1 year "generator" warranty. You would have to dig in to the details there if you wanted to entertain that type of unit as a possibility.

As far as converting to natural gas and propane - there are kits out there for most generators/engines. I pieced some together myself machining my own manifolds, sourcing my own carb extension bolts, etc, etc. If you aren't able to make your own parts with good confidence then you are better off buying a kit with the parts set up for the engine you are converting. Making parts takes a lot of time. For me it was the cost of the kits vs what what individual parts were - the manifolds were the most expensive parts so I saved a good chunk of $ making my own right there.

Going back to the warranty issue - I am not concerned with the warranties. The only unit I have that the warranty could come in to play with is the EU2200 as it was bought new, but has run very well and is used regularly (not much, but regular enough it doesn't "sit unused" for months at a time). The others are older and beyond warranty periods. At that point its some know-how and the ability to source parts, should I need them. And worst case I can't repair them. In that case I am not out a whole lot of $ since I don't have much invested in them anyway. But I anticipate many years of service from all of them - they all run well and when they havent I've rectified what ever the predicaments were.

If you were to, say, convert to propane then had to take the unit you are looking at to a service center for repair they might turn you away - especially for a warranty job. Companies will look for every avenue to not have to flip the bill for stuff and a propane conversion on an engine that isn't already in their "system" as such would be an issue.

However, who's to say you can't take off the propane conversion before getting repaired?* (see note below) Getting back to the idea of "least amount of work/best user convenience" - converting to propane/NG in and of itself is the complete opposite line of thought. So undoing the conversion and redoing the conversion every time you get the unit serviced would be a huge headache I would imagine.

_*There are some propane/natural gas conversions where you have to cut the tube frames of the generators. The reason for this is the kits a lot of times use a manifold that mounts to the carb and pushes that assembly, or the air filter housing, out the distance of the manifold thickness. Some units don't have the clearance to do that so they require cutting the frame to open up that clearance. Check specific kits for units you are looking at for details. _

If you are good at working with mechanical things then you should be able to work through all the "self inflicted operator errors". I'd say 90% of service requests (phone calls, trips to the service dudes, what have you) are from such "self inflicted operator errors" where something basic was missed. Worst case that is something as simple as getting a new generator and not putting oil in it, just filling up the gas tank and going at it. Of course, at the point you realize the generator isn't working right you've killed it. But there are a lot of other little things - like the fuel shut off valve on a top mounted gravity fed tank - how many people have forgot to open the fuel shut off and have the generator start, run for 1 minute, and then quit without being able to get it to go? (you should have cut the fuel off before you stored it the first time, though, so the engine runs dry - not just turn it off and cut the fuel shut off). Yeah, you might get pissed off and kick a tire or two killing an hour or so of time you don't have power, but as you say - if you are resourceful and mechanical you should be able to work through what ever issues come up and get things running.

Again, all things considered, an entirely Honda generator is excellent quality. So you're starting with a great unit.

One thing I would offer for consideration is, again, fuel consumption. All of the rotary (non-inverter) generators in this class run at a fixed 3600 RPM. They run that speed because the alternator rotating at that speed is what produces 60hz AC power. The frequency is entirely dependent on the RPM the alternator spins at. Therefore, the engine speed doesn't really "change" with load. How much power the engine puts out does change - that is where the throttle comes in. The governor regulates the speed and the throttle regulates the power. As it needs more power the throttle opens and more fuel/air goes in to the engine - the eternal chase of the carb is to get the engine RPM's to 3600. If a load hits - the carb opens. If you remove the load - the carb closes.

Inverter generators, on the other hand, have variable RPM engines. If you know what a power inverter is - the kind you plug in to a vehicle accessory port or connect to a battery bank on a boat or RV - they take DC power and create AC power. This is the same principal used in an "inverter generator". What creates the DC is an alternator and rectifier. The power, therefore, going to the "inverter" varies. The "inverter" is what creates, and regulates, the AC power - both the voltage and frequency. What the "inverter" needs is power - wattage - for it to do its' job. As you draw more wattage from the "inverter" it will require more wattage going in to it. So if the wattage going in is not what the inverter needs it tells the engine to speed up to provide that wattage. Notice I am using the term "wattage" here, not "voltage" and/or "amperage". The "voltage and amperage" don't matter to the inverter - it takes what it gets and creates what you need.

The beauty of an "inverter generator" is just that - the variability in the engine RPM's. By varying those RPM's you can run those engines at idle and sip fuel, as compared to a 3600 RPM "screamer" class generator - which the EM6500 is such a "screamer".

Going back to an earlier post I made about the fuel consumption and the discussion on the "minimum wattage" - on a "screamer" generator that is going to be a noticeable number. If you are drawing less than that - lets say in the middle of the night when all you have on is a fan - then you are pushing fuel to the unit just to maintain it running at 3600 RPM, even though you are using very little power. An inverter generator would be able to drop down to idle for that period. Big fuel savings.

However, if you are going to need a decent amount of power all the time (off that 6500w class generator say maybe 1500w minimum draw) then your savings from an inverter might not be quite as much because you are holding a decent wattage load at all times so you are using more of the energy in that fuel that is being burned to get the 3600 RPM's.

Going back to fuel sources - for those of us that have Natural Gas piped in - running a 3600 RPM unit doesn't matter. As long as the fuel supply is on the amount is unlimited. So the engine running at 3600 RPM, the size of the engine, and the electrical draw makes no difference on run time, only fuel consumed. The same can't be said for ANY fuel source you have in tanks (propane, gasoline, diesel). The more you consume the less run time you have on the fuel you have/can get.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Yes. The propane conversion is an issue I thought of. I would run the thing for a year to be sure of no mechanical issues before converting anything. 
I also understand the idle control. That is something I wanted on a gen. Question: the specs will say 16 hrs at 25% load. If the gen is not idling down for lower loads, the load should not matter but it does and just run regardless of load. Am I making sense? So there has to be an idle control of some sort. 
Thank you for your insights. I really appreciate everyone's time to help me w this decision.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> Question: the specs will say 16 hrs at 25% load. If the gen is not idling down for lower loads, the load should not matter but it does and just run regardless of load. Am I making sense? So there has to be an idle control of some sort.


Idle Control on rotary generators is a finicky subject.

Idle Control is NOT variable RPM as is the case with an Inverter generator.

A rotary generator REQUIRES you run the alternator at it's RPM in order to get the AC frequency correct. In the case of a 3600 RPM alternator - you must run it at 3600 RPM. If you run it at any other RPM you change the frequency of the AC (and voltage, but frequency is more important - the frequency being skewed will cause quicker problems with running devices than will a change in voltage).

So what is Idle Control on a rotary generator?

It is a method of allowing the engine to throttle down IF (and ONLY IF) there is no load. No load means no load, not a light load.

AC devices in North America, and a lot of other areas around the world, require 60hz frequency AC power - at either ~120v or ~240v (unless you get in to commercial/industrial stuff then you get in to 208, 480, and other voltages with 3-phase power mixed in there also - but that is another subject entirely).

In order to run a device in North America you need to provide that 60hz frequency AC power.

The only way to supply 60hz power with a 3600 RPM rotary generator is for the alternator to spin at 3600 RPM. Not 800 RPM. Not 1200 RPM. Not 3000 RPM. *3600 RPM only.*

So if you have 0 power draw then Idle Control can save fuel.

The only time I can see Idle Control being of any use is if you have intermittent loads - like powering tools in the field, on a construction site, what have you. Otherwise, if you have small loads all the time you need the 3600 RPM to get you 60hz power. That is - if you have a rotary generator.

If you have an inverter style generator then the inverter regulates both the voltage and frequency of the power it outputs - therefore as long as the engine/alternator is providing enough power (wattage) to the input of the inverter then you are able to provide the power you are drawing - irrespective of the RPM's. The only reason the RPM's matter in this case is if the alternator is spinning fast enough to produce the wattage demanded. If the idle speed of the engine produces the wattage demand - it runs at idle. The inverter keeps your 60hz AC power frequency regardless of the engine/alternator RPM.

As for the "throttling" of engines on generators that don't have "idle control" - that is simply the throttle and governor working together to maintain 3600 RPM. If there is a load then the throttle has to open up to get more power from the engine in order to get back to 3600 RPM. The opposite is true - if you drop the load, or turn the load off, then the engine goes from having too much power to closing the throttle down to get the RPM's to back off to 3600 RPM. This is NOT "idle control" because the unit operates at a nominal 3600 RPM speed all the time (always tries to get there). Idle control, if spec'd as having it, will drop the engine RPM's. However, that drops the AC power frequency so you can't draw any power from the generator while it has throttled down to idle. As soon as you do draw power it will ramp up the RPM's right back to 3600.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

For what it is worth - motors (consuming electrical power to make mechanical power) and alternators (driven by mechanical power to make electrical power) are, for all intents and purposes, the same physics. There are some differences that make each built to their specific purposes, but the root physics of how they operate is the same - coils, poles, and magnetic fields. 

Here is a video that breaks down motor RPM vs poles and magnetic fields that may help you understand what I am trying to say about the alternator RPM and generating 60hz AC power. 

Note the references to both 3600 RPM and 1800 RPM in the video. Sound familiar? Yep. 1800 RPM alternators are out there - and they make for a longer life generator as they don't, well.... spin at twice the speed at 3600 RPM.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Can I ask a favor? Make a recommendation. Electric start. Watt meter. Idle control. 30A connection. Dual fuel or convertible. Around $3k is ok as long as it's a gen I'm not gonna have to replace again in the near future. No predator!


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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

Excellent! That Honda is an excellent choice. Now...CALL CURETON RENTALS IN NEDERLAND. They are a Honda power equipment dealer. I have purchased three Honda generators, and Cureton has the best pricing I could find anywhere in the U.S. Also, because they also have a fleet of rental generators (and all other equipment too), they also SERVICE THEM! Family owned, the guys that work there have been there since dirt. They have no turnover. Some of those guys were there back when I lived down the street back in the 80's. Those guys' Honda knowledge and repair experience goes back into the Old Testament. *Right here in SE Texas! THIS is the ownership and supporting dealer experience that is rare to find these days. *(Where you gonna' get that internet-sourced, mail-order generator fixed?)(Tell you where: they gonna' ask you to box it up and ship it off to some shop they contract with...the shop with the lowest bid. You want the help of someone who they aren't paying squat? You are never going to be able to speak with whoever "worked" on it. How long they gonna' take to turn it around?) Yes, the help offered on this website is of high quality, but some of the advice offered and the equipment referenced is above the layman's budget and ability. We can't fix it for ya', so at some point you are going to have to take your own appendix out, (or install your own penile implants, like I did). Are you up to it? Factor all that in. Then go buy that Honda.

The discussion and quality information offered has been expansive and generous. Any further discussion would only serve to reduce domestic productivity and the gross national product. Buy one. Post up when you unbox it. 

Honda: Buy once, cry once.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> Can I ask a favor? Make a recommendation. Electric start. Watt meter. *Idle control*. 30A connection. Dual fuel or convertible. Around $3k is ok as long as it's a gen I'm not gonna have to replace again in the near future. No predator!


Bold added. Idle control is a confusing subject unless you wrap your mind around the subject to understand it. With that having been said - I am going to make the assumption what you want is a generator that will run at low RPM's. You need an inverter to do that.

Some of the following don't have the wattage you are looking for.

You say "30 amp connection". These all have 30 amp connectors - but some are 120v only. That is another subject (there is a way to feed split phase panels with 120v, but you can't run any 240v loads that way as you only have 120v).









4,500 Watt Dual Fuel Portable Inverter Generator w/ CO Alert


XP4500iH Specifications Gasoline Peak Wattage 4,500 Running Wattage 3,600 Running Amperage at 120V 30 Runtime at 25% Load 16 Runtime at 50% Load 8 Propane Peak Wattage 4,275 Running Wattage 3,420 Running Amperage at 120V 28.5 Runtime at 25% Load 19 Runtime at 50% Load 11 Engine & Emission...




www.duromaxpower.com





This one is higher wattage with 240v also.








DuroMax XP9000iH 9000-Watt 459cc Dual Fuel Digital Inverter Hybrid Portable Generator with CO Alert


WHERE TO BUY EXTENDED GALLERY × DuroMax Retailers One of the largest digital inverters available on the market, the XP9000iH is excellent for emergency home backup or power on the jobsite. Use clean power to operate your television, laptops, and other sensitive electronics. This inverter comes...




www.duromaxpower.com










4250-Watt Dual Fuel Open Frame Inverter - Champion Power Equipment


Powering Your Life




www.championpowerequipment.com










4500-Watt Dual Fuel Inverter - Champion Power Equipment


Powering Your Life




www.championpowerequipment.com







https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200888192_200888192



This one does 240v





Powerhorse Inverter Generator 7500 Surge Watts, 6500 Rated Watts | Northern Tool


This Powerhorse® Inverter Generator provides more power with less noise, plus low 1.5% total harmonic distortion for safely running sensit...




www.northerntool.com





The mack dady of all of them - the Honda EU7000.





Honda Inverter Generator, 7000 Surge Watts, 5500 Rated Watts, Electric Start, Model# EU7000ISNAN | Northern Tool


The Honda EU7000ISNAN is a super-quiet, fuel-efficient, long-running portable power solution. Equipped with Honda inverter ...




www.northerntool.com





Your dryer will require 240 volts. So if you want 1 generator then you are going to have to pick one of the big units above (you exnay'ed Predator/Harbor Freight already otherwise I would put their big inverter in the list also).

I will give you a perspective from my point of view - maybe this will help you make a decision. I can't make the decision for you, only offer information - as any of us on the forum can - from all our perspectives.

In my case - I do not have a generator between the mid-2000w range and 15kw. I had a 2600w rotary (3600 RPM unit). I ended up with the EU2200 because I wanted a more convenient portable unit that was quiet and good on fuel. The EU2200 excels in all aspects there. It is actually more powerful than my supposed 2600w rotary.

That having been said, I got the 15kw because there are loads I have that I have not been able to run on any of the 2 generators I had - welding machines, air compressor, namely. The well pump at our cabins stresses the 2 small generators even if it is the only load, also. So my thought was to get a generator that could run the "big loads". That put me in the 10kw range. At the time I had my eye on the 13kw Northstar (uses a Honda GX630 engine). The 15kw I found used for a song and dance so I jumped on it. Although the whole house power wasn't "the reason" for getting it, since I have more power with it that just makes sense. After load testing it (on gasoline) - it runs the whole house with flying colors.

As for house power - where the smaller generators struggle is if we run a microwave. The basics - fans and lights - run fine. But when we run a microwave that loads things up too much.

So if we had to go to gasoline and propane as fuel (tanked in, IE - natural gas line going down) then what would be really nice is to have a generator in the 4000-4500w class. That would be that "next step up" from the EU2200 on power and would get us up and over the snafu with running a microwave (and the small AC - which will run on the EU2200, but is a big load for it - so add in the rest of the house lights, fans and the EU2200 is too light).

With that having been said - my thought would be to get a 4000-4500w class inverter generator (120v only, as I don't think there is an electric start one that does 240v - there is a recoil start one from Powerhorse in the 4000w class but their electric start one is 120v only) for your "regular power". Then find you a cheap used 7kw or so rotary generator that you can fire up to power the dryer, should you really need to run it.

A quick edit to add:

The only comparable Honda that comes close is the EU3000. It does not have electric start and is gasoline only. For those reasons I did not include it in the list above. However, given its' class of unit - this is the best one in that range. It just lacks features I think are well worth having - and it is a bit low on the wattage when you consider there are several in the 4000-4500w range (1000-1500w higher output than the EU3000).

With the competition in the 3500-4500w range (several options listed above) of inverter generators - the target market for those is RV use. RV's don't use 240v (in general - there may be some rare exceptions - but the power distribution in 95% of RV's is 120v-only). I think if a manufacturer came out with a generator in this class that had switchable 120 only or 120/240 split they would have a winner. On this class of generator the 240v isn't so much for 240v - it is so you can split the 2 legs of 120v. That gets back to the point I made earlier about there being a way to feed a split phase power panel (house) with 120v-only. Having a generator that does split phase 240 makes it to where you don't need the supposed "work around", per se (unless you have a 120v load that can't run on 1 leg, in that case you would need to run the generator in "120v only" mode so you combine both leg 1 and leg 2 to have all the wattage available on 120v - another concept that can be confusing).

How many low wattage 240v loads do you know of that people have in/around a house? All my 240v loads - welding machines, dryer, central AC - are mostly too heavy of draws for a 3500-4500w class generator. I suppose the exception would be light portable welding. But at that point the machine that I have that would run down in that range on 240v runs on 120v also - for just that reason. Corded power tools (drills, saws, etc) are all 120v. Even my current air compressor, drill press, and horizontal/vertical band saw, and table saw are 120v.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol
well here i go!
I vote save up your pop cans and buy the honda eu7000is!
they are well worth the price tag!
and they hold value!
the big thing on the 7000is is it is fuel injected! a whole different thing on the inverter units!
they will work from zero altitude to 15k feet with out any other parts.
total self adjusting lamda style fuel system.
and yes they are super on the fuel eco as well.
and yes there is a tri fuel kit for them as well.
watch the sales from northern tool they do free shipping deals sometimes as well.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

I do understand what you are saying about frequency. I get that the alt needs to spin at a given speed to maintain electrical frequency. Is that hz? Anyway. I have a newfound respect for electrical engineers and electricians. Watts, volts.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cycles per second is HZ.
it has to do with the rotor and stator slots and the engine rpm.
but only on the conventional generators.

inverter generators are computer clock based on the HZ.
but the rotor speed does have a speed window. or range that is will work correctly.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

iowagold said:


> lol
> well here i go!
> I vote save up your pop cans and buy the honda eu7000is!
> they are well worth the price tag!
> ...


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> I get that the alt needs to spin at a given speed to maintain electrical frequency. Is that hz?


Hz = Hertz = cycles per second.

How that relates to an alternator (watch the video I linked to) - the amount of poles an alternator has (motor in the case of the video, but again the physics are the same - just reversed) and the RPM of the alternator determines the "frequency" - because the coils are passed through those alternating magnets (north and south poles). The rate at which the coils pass through the magnetic fields determines the frequency (the cycles per second of the resultant AC wave, represented as the unit Hz, or Hertz).


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> iowagold said:
> 
> 
> > lol
> ...


The quote didn't work. Look at the screen shot image below (screen shot otherwise the coding takes affect - as an image you can see the coding) of how the coding works - note the red box. You have to type outside the last end quote code. 

Since I double quoted here that is done via the green boxes. If you single quote you just type outside the end of quote code.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

iowagold said:


> cycles per second is HZ.
> it has to do with the rotor and stator slots and the engine rpm.
> but only on the conventional generators.
> 
> ...





FlyFisher said:


> The quote didn't work. Look at the screen shot image below (screen shot otherwise the coding takes affect - as an image you can see the coding) of how the coding works - note the red box. You have to type outside the last end quote code.
> 
> Since I double quoted here that is done via the green boxes. If you single quote you just type outside the end of quote code.
> 
> View attachment 9789


I was at work and in a hurry😂😂


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Ground Fault said:


> Excellent! That Honda is an excellent choice. Now...CALL CURETON RENTALS IN NEDERLAND. They are a Honda power equipment dealer. I have purchased three Honda generators, and Cureton has the best pricing I could find anywhere in the U.S. Also, because they also have a fleet of rental generators (and all other equipment too), they also SERVICE THEM! Family owned, the guys that work there have been there since dirt. They have no turnover. Some of those guys were there back when I lived down the street back in the 80's. Those guys' Honda knowledge and repair experience goes back into the Old Testament. *Right here in SE Texas! THIS is the ownership and supporting dealer experience that is rare to find these days. *(Where you gonna' get that internet-sourced, mail-order generator fixed?)(Tell you where: they gonna' ask you to box it up and ship it off to some shop they contract with...the shop with the lowest bid. You want the help of someone who they aren't paying squat? You are never going to be able to speak with whoever "worked" on it. How long they gonna' take to turn it around?) Yes, the help offered on this website is of high quality, but some of the advice offered and the equipment referenced is above the layman's budget and ability. We can't fix it for ya', so at some point you are going to have to take your own appendix out, (or install your own penile implants, like I did). Are you up to it? Factor all that in. Then go buy that Honda.
> 
> The discussion and quality information offered has been expansive and generous. Any further discussion would only serve to reduce domestic productivity and the gross national product. Buy one. Post up when you unbox it.
> 
> Honda: Buy once, cry once.


I will certainly give them a call tomorrow. I am a bit north of there, but they well might make it worth the trip. Thank you!


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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

We are north too, about an hour's drive down to Cureton. Worth it though. I drive past several Honda dealers to get to Cureton, and all because of the service and depth of knowledge they offer. When you drive down there, to make it absolutely worth the effort, y'all consider going to eat Italian food at Colichia's Italian Village at 5601 E Parkway St, Groves, TX 77619. Not far from Cureton. Family owned, they have been in business for over eighty years. Obviously they are doing something right! If we go anywhere within ten miles of there, THAT'S where we are eating. Not expensive either. _Habit forming..._


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

Ground Fault said:


> We are north too, about an hour's drive down to Cureton. Worth it though. I drive past several Honda dealers to get to Cureton, and all because of the service and depth of knowledge they offer. When you drive down there, to make it absolutely worth the effort, y'all consider going to eat Italian food at Colichia's Italian Village at 5601 E Parkway St, Groves, TX 77619. Not far from Cureton. They have been in business for over eighty years. Obviously they are doing something right! If we go anywhere within ten miles of there, THAT'S where we are eating. Not expensive either. _Habit forming..._


Ha! I'm just east of Hillister! Got my quote from them this morning. 4330+ tax. Amazon wants almost 6k! Guess that's why they still have them in stock. Cureton says mid Aug. I sent reply about getting on the wait list. Thanks for the referral.


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## Jtaraba (Jul 28, 2021)

iowagold said:


> lol
> well here i go!
> I vote save up your pop cans and buy the honda eu7000is!
> they are well worth the price tag!
> ...


Ok. Well I contacted Cureton in Nederland and they want 4330 plus tax. Not too bad. Mid August delivery so I asked how many arms and legs to get on the waiting list. We'll see!


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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

We are a couple of creek bottoms west of you. I had to get on the waiting list too. They WILL call you. It is not a brush-off. Be ready though. When they call you to tell you yours is in tell them that you definitely will purchase the unit _and to put it aside with your name on it._ The day they called me at 9am they had just received a shipment. I got there about 2pm. They had sold out by 11am, but they had held mine. Listen, one of these is as good a money in the bank. About as a solid investment in capital equipment as you can buy. It barely depreciates. If you find you want something else there will be a line to your door, eager to take it off your hands. That EU7000 is where I ended up, after having spent thousands on other generators. I should have just bought the EU7000 first. It would have saved me money in the long run if I would have just done so.

Once the scabs heal from buying a Honda, THEN consider your choices in the 3500-5500 watt range as a less expensive back-up. 

By the way...ethanol-free gas is available down in Buna. I think they have some available across the river from you in Kirbyville too.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Jtaraba said:


> 30A connection.


Something that just hit me again that I think is very important to know about generators:

There are many types of "30 amp connectors". RV's, boats, and industrial applications don't share all the same plugs/connectors and thus generators have various different connectors.

This is not a huge issue - one isn't necessarily better than another. Why you have to be aware of them is they are not all interchangeable. They are very specific to each other.


L5-30 - This is a twist lock, 3 pin connector for up to 30 amps of 120v only.
TT30 - This is a straight plug (non-twist lock) 3 pin connector for up to 30 amps of 120v only
L14-30 - This is a twist lock 4 pin connector for up to 30 amps 120v and 240v. Very few inverter generators (usually the largest ones) have these, yet they are extraordinarily common on rotary generators.

For example:


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200788693_200788693



The generator in the link above (Powerhorse open frame 4500w inverter) is an "odd-ball". It is one of the _*very*_ few units that has switchable 120/240 split phase or 120v only operation. The 120/240v outlet is an L14-30 (extremely popular - probably the most popular 30a connector through time - used almost exclusively on rotary generators that output split phase until you get over 30a then you get in to the 14-50 and L14-50 connectors). For 120v-only mode this one uses an L5-30.

Now look at this generator:


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200888192_200888192



Same 4500w class, same manufacturer. This one is only 120v. It does not have a switchable 120/240v split phase mode. It uses.... the TT30 RV outlet. NOT the L5-30 the open frame unit above does for 120v-only mode.

My buddy's boat cabling uses the L5-30 plugs. However, all the generators that are marketed to the RV crowd that have a 30 amp connector most often use the TT30 plug these days. The small EU2000's we use are the same way - we need adapters from the 5-15 outlet on a generator to the L5-30. The same is true for a TT30 - need an adapter from TT30 to L5-30. Not a problem - you just have to be aware of it so you have what you need to get things to connect together.

This is the kind of adapter cord we use with the EU2000's. The cable that goes to the inlet box on the boat is one of the same long shore power cords we hook to the power box at the marina. Therefore the adapter is just a foot or two to change between the connectors. You can get these adapters in any plug configuration, or make your own also. Though, if you are at marinas or campgrounds its best to use commercially made cabling - you might run in to problems with the people that run said campground/marina if they don't like your "home made" adapters. Even if you use UL approved components, because it is pieced together they may take issue with it regardless.








Amazon.com: Conntek P515L530 1-Feet Generator Adapter 15-Amp U.S Plug to 30-Amp Locking Female Connector L5-30R , Yellow : Patio, Lawn & Garden


Buy Conntek P515L530 1-Feet Generator Adapter 15-Amp U.S Plug to 30-Amp Locking Female Connector L5-30R , Yellow: Cords, Plugs & Adapters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I don't use TT30's or L5-30's here yet. The only outlet I have on a gen for 120v is a 5-15/5-20 (the EU2200 has the extra horizontal blade for 5-20) so I have an adapter from that to L14-30. Then I have an adapter from L14-30 to 14-50, and back the other way. The back up power feed to the house panel is 14-50 so this way I can feed that from any gen I have - the 15kw using the 14-50, the 2600w rotary using the L14-30, and the EU2200 using the 5-20.

At the point I bridge the gap in wattage of gens with something in the 4000-4500w range that will likely have a 120v 30a connector so I can make an adapter for that just as easy.

The important point is - not all 30 amp connectors are the same. There are different configurations, different amounts of pins, and different voltages available on them (we didn't even touch on 240v connectors - take the 6-30 and 6-50 for example - I use 6-50's as the 50a 240v standard here for my welders and when I upgrade air compressors it will be 240v on the same 6-50 type plug, they are very common for equipment but I don't know of a single generator that uses it).


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Jtaraba said:


> Ok. Well I contacted Cureton in Nederland and they want 4330 plus tax. Not too bad. Mid August delivery so I asked how many arms and legs to get on the waiting list. We'll see!


well worth the wait!
pre pay if that is what it takes!
most are first come first serve right now on gen sets....
pre pay works well!


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## dharley (Dec 15, 2021)

I also need that dryer because I live in a hostel and I really need that for washing clothes purpose specially the authentic tentacion hoodies are really difficult to wash with the local machine.


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