# Is this Honda EG2800i wearing out...?



## Resistor

I have been running this thing about 10 hours a day, every day, since May 2019. I'm a road warrior.

Oil consumption is now running about 1 to 3 ounces a day, in a 16 ounce reservoir. The automatic oil shutdown happens at about 6 hours. I add more oil and it runs another 3 hours or so, before shutting down again.

During the break-in period, I ran it with various loads, up to around 2500 watts. Since then, I don't think I've run anything more than 1500 watts.

I've been looking with great interest, at Predator's thread on his Predator 3500, and wondering if it would last as long as this Honda, with such heavy use.

I'm wondering what to do next and would appreciate any ideas.

I've run out of time today, but I'll be back.


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## iowagold

did you buy it new in may???
if so it has warranty!!
3 year residential / 1 year commercial warranty
way way too much oil getting gone...
what does the spark plug look like??

was it used in a super cold area?? like below 10 deg f?
a honda does not use oil like that unless something is wrong..

what does the oil look like??
are you filling the oil to the top of the bottom thread?
did you use a magnetic drain plug or a magnetic dip stick?

I am thinking crank case breather issue..
it may not be venting the crank case right..


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## drmerdp

Warranty for sure. It’s consuming way to much oil. 

10 hours a day for 9 months lands around 3000 hours. A predator generator might make 3000 hours, but I’d give it a low probability.


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## iowagold

yea 3 k hours on a honda it is just breaking in!!

I am questioning the crank vent...
it maybe stuck open.. or broke!!
there is a little flapper in there..

dealer first and make sure they have all the docs for warranty!!
or better yet a honda gen service center!!

make sure they know you expect warranty!!
and a repair at no charge!!


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## Resistor

Computer died, just got linux installed on the new one. Now, had to find my password.

I stumbled around and vented the crankcase vent to the outside world, then to a catch can on a 3/8" line, about 12 to 15" long.

I left the line between the canister and the gas tank in place, except for disconnecting it at the canister.

I also removed the line between the canister and the air filter. I did put a 3/8" line to the port on the air filter and ran it a couple of feet to move it farther away from the exhaust. 

That was a part of trying to see if it would run on fumes. My buddy experiments on things like this, sometimes using the equipment of others.

The oil does look nasty. I thought it improved a little, after rerouting the crankcase vent, but I'm not so sure, now. 

I did clean the nasty plug, but have only looked at it once, since the rerouting. It looked good at that time.

There is no in-line check valve.

We have not had temps below 10 deg f, this year.

I have a bad habit of not registering purchases for warranty purposes.
I did buy it new and put a magnetic dip stick in it.

So those 2 issues would likely preclude any warranty claim.

Now it shuts down at about 3 hours. Oil consumption is now running about 4 ounces a day.

Looks like I will stick with Honda.
I bought it off the internet.. It could have been ebay.

Would it be feasable to have it rebuilt, out of pocket, or would it be better to replace it?

Resistor

p.s... Thanks to all, for responding.


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## tabora

Resistor said:


> I have a bad habit of not registering purchases for warranty purposes.
> I did buy it new and put a magnetic dip stick in it.
> 
> So those 2 issues would likely preclude any warranty claim.


That should not void the warranty. I'd take it to a Honda service center under warranty as others have suggested.


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## iowagold

put a new spark plug in and see if it loads up with oil in 10 min of run.


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## RedOctobyr

At worst, put the regular dipstick back in before bringing it to a dealer. Tough to see how a different dipstick could cause it to start burning oil, unless the magnet came off and started banging around in the crankcase. I would talk to the dealer even if you didn't register it. If they won't help, I'd reach out to Honda.


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## Melson

@Resistor, do I understand correctly you ran this engine on "fumes"? If so... you are inciting detonation, for sure, with potentially detrimental effects, especially to the piston and rings.


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## Resistor

Melson said:


> @Resistor , do I understand correctly you ran this engine on "fumes"? If so... you are inciting detonation, for sure, with potentially detrimental effects, especially to the piston and rings.


That fumes experiment was what showed me the my buddy was not the expert I thought. He picked up on an idea, but has yet to refine it.. Like so many others.

It ran, bogged down and picked up again. Then, I shut it down and gave up on the idea, entirely.

I suspected that this might cause some damage. If it were a workable solution, engineers would have already figured out how to get the fumes from the tank to the combustion chamber.

Yet the best they can come up with is delivering gasoline to the carburetor, and letting the carburetor do its job.


I just dropped it off at the Honda dealer.

He was very reserved about any warranty work and said that they do not do swap outs, new for broken.

It is likely a head - gasket ? - issue and would take 2 to 4 hours to fix. At $ 89 an hour, that is $ 400 with taxes. New ones are on Sale for $ 1,029, so it is roughly 40% of the cost of new.

iowagold, there is no indication of a problem with the spark plug. The thing starts on first or second pull, even well below 32*.

RedOctobyr, the magnetic dip stick is not a cause of the increase in oil consumption.

If anything, it would help retard oil consumption by helping to keep debris from running through the combustion process.


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## drmerdp

Head gasket is an interesting hypothesis. Cheaper then re-ringing the piston...

I’m sure they will give it a leak down test to confirm. 

I always try to buy my equipment from the same dealer. They know me, remember I’ve spent mucho $$ and have a greater inclination to help. Just something to ponder, price sometimes comes second to service.

You can potentially sell it on Craiglist with an *honest description and make back a few hundred on the cost of a replacement.... something to think about.


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## Resistor

I just got it out of the shop - $133. 
That is mucho better than $400.

Looks like I neglected to have the valves adjusted at the regular service interval, which is every 250 hours.

The technician reversed my bypass of the emissions system.

I perceived him to be a real believer in CARB and EPA.
There is a cure for ignorance, but stupid is permanent. 
I don't know if he has time for a cure.

He said it does not seem to be burning oil or smoking.

They recommended the Honda gn4 motor oil, but a $7 per quart, or $36 per gallon, I'm not sure the value is there.

Or could I be in for some more of my own stupid tax.?

I sure do appreciate all of you that chimed in.
Kept me from getting too excited...


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## drmerdp

Resistor said:


> I just got it out of the shop - $133.
> That is mucho better than $400.
> 
> Looks like I neglected to have the valves adjusted at the regular service interval, which is every 250 hours.
> 
> The technician reversed my bypass of the emissions system.
> 
> I perceived him to be a real believer in CARB and EPA.
> There is a cure for ignorance, but stupid is permanent.
> I don't know if he has time for a cure.
> 
> He said it does not seem to be burning oil or smoking.
> 
> They recommended the Honda gn4 motor oil, but a $7 per quart, or $36 per gallon, I'm not sure the value is there.
> 
> Or could I be in for some more of my own stupid tax.?
> 
> I sure do appreciate all of you that chimed in.
> Kept me from getting too excited...


A valve adjustment...hmmm. Has it actually stopped burning oil?

And it is indeed worth buying Honda’s oil, or an equivalent small engine oil. If you are willing to spend a few extra bucks amsoils synthetic small engine oil is even better.

I’ve always used Honda’s power equipment oil in all my generators and snowblowers. But am making the switch to amsoil on everything well broken in.


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## Resistor

Hi, drmerdp.

Won't be starting it up for another couple of hours.
Fingers crossed.


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## Resistor

Can't Edit ?

I appreciate the insight on the oil.
Gives me something more to think about.


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## iowagold

hummm
yea setting the valves....
well maybe …
but for burning or using oil??
news to me!
keep your receipts and maybe send copies to honda!!

yea valve set at maybe 1000 hrs to 3000 hrs if the oil has been changed on the service marks..

I do it on the annual on the equipment..

as far as oils
honda service school we always used castrol 10-30

and any of the good brands of synthetic work too.

always run magnetic dip sticks and magnetic drain plugs if they have a drain on all honda engines.
that black junk in the oil is magnetic!!
and if you are checking the oil level every am wipe off the trash off the mag dip stick!!
we have gone to 300 hrs on synthetic oil or until it looks beat up.
on the gens with out a spin oil filter.

I need to get the pix of the dip sticks black trash up on the honda forum


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## Resistor

I was really pissed at Honda of the Ozarks, but I've cooled off a little, over night.

The technician weren't no technician, except -maybe- in name only. No wonder I got the impression that he was stupid.

They charged me the rate for a qualified technician, when they should have provided free, supervised service, since they used someone right off the street and completely clueless.

Anyway, I got it back. Later, went for gas. 

Naturally, the first thing to do is look at the oil, so I removed the dip stick... . . . . . . . .

That fool must have turned that unit upside down, to get that much oil into the reservoir.

I spent the next hour cleaning up the oil that flowed out of the reservoir. 
Then I had to remove the excess that remained, with a leaky flavor injector syringe.

He stated on the ticket that the oil was so low that it did not show on the dipstick.

Can you believe that....? Mine must have been the first generator he has ever seen.

I'm getting hot, again, and it is 24* outside.

Now, I'm wondering if and how long he ran it, with that much oil.

There was likely more I was going to say last night, but I've cooled off a little.


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## Resistor

iowagold said:


> hummm
> yea setting the valves....
> well maybe …
> but for burning or using oil??
> news to me!
> keep your receipts and maybe send copies to honda!!
> 
> yea valve set at maybe 1000 hrs to 3000 hrs if the oil has been changed on the service marks..
> 
> I do it on the annual on the equipment..
> 
> as far as oils
> honda service school we always used castrol 10-30
> 
> and any of the good brands of synthetic work too.
> 
> always run magnetic dip sticks and magnetic drain plugs if they have a drain on all honda engines.
> that black junk in the oil is magnetic!!
> and if you are checking the oil level every am wipe off the trash off the mag dip stick!!
> we have gone to 300 hrs on synthetic oil or until it looks beat up.
> on the gens with out a spin oil filter.
> 
> I need to get the pix of the dip sticks black trash up on the honda forum


The recommended service interval is 250 hours.

I bought the magnetic dipstick at the same time I bought the generator.

Not only do I check the oil every day, I wipe the black stuff off and rub it between my fingers.

It ran fine for 8 hours, after I cleaned up the oil spill..

ETA - Edit to add:
Hot dog. Just noticed that I have acquired the ability to edit.


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## drmerdp

Resistor said:


> It ran fine for 8 hours...
> 
> ETA - Edit to add:
> Hot dog. Just noticed that I have acquired the ability to edit.


So previously it would shutoff due to low oil after 4 hours and now you’ve gone 8 without shutting down? Certainly progress. 

I would try to quantify how long you can go without it shutting down from a full fill. Definitly keep an eye on the level but I’m curious if it would make it ATLEAST 50hours. 

So what was your service interval previously? And do you have an hour meter installed?


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## Resistor

drmerdp said:


> So previously it would shutoff due to low oil after 4 hours and now you’ve gone 8 without shutting down? Certainly progress.
> 
> I would try to quantify how long you can go without it shutting down from a full fill. Definitly keep an eye on the level but I’m curious if it would make it ATLEAST 50hours.
> 
> So what was your service interval previously? And do you have an hour meter installed?


It started shutting off at about 8 hours, then got worse, shutting off at about 3 to 5 hours. It seemed that when hot, adding oil would not last as long vs. starting cold.

Right now, if it went 50 hours without needing oil, I would be delighted. If it does that, I think I would most likely go with a premium oil.

The only way to know how long it would go before shutting down from a full fill, would be to put an extended run time gas tank on it.

But, I'll see what the consumption is, by checking it every day, adding oil as needed.

I have no hour meter and was haphazard in changing the oil. Usually, about every 10 days to 2 weeks, at most.


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## RedOctobyr

Good luck! I wouldn't expect valves being out of adjustment to cause burning oil, but maybe somehow? They can certainly cause other issues.

A blown head gasket, at least for some engines (Briggs OHV are one I can attest to) can cause burning oil. 

You could attempt a simple leakdown test to see if you can hear air leaking from somewhere.

Glad you found the excess-oil level before running it more. It didn't smell like gas, did it? In some cases, something like a leaky carb needle valve can allow gas to run into the cylinder, and then the crankcase, raising the oil level. Is this an engine where you fill it through the dipstick hole? If so, it would beg the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.


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## drmerdp

It’s great to have an hour meter for staying on top of maintenance , plus they double as a rpm gauge which is nice for reference. 

~100 hours between changes is pretty much par for the course for heavy use machines, but it can have consequences especially if using basic oil that doesn’t have an additive package suited for small air cooled engines.

Having a bit more background, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have quite a bit of carbon build up. Carbon build up on the rings can cause performance issues. Including oil consumption....

I suggest a combustion chamber and piston ring decarboning. It’s a simple process and all you need is a small funnel and some sea foam. 

Pull the starter rope lightly until you hit the compression stroke and remove the spark plug. Take a flashlight and look to see if the piston is at the top of its stroke. If not carefully pull the rope a bit more.

Next grab your funnel and fill the combustion chamber fully. Fluid should be visible on the spark plug threads. 

Let it sit over night... the seafoam will soften and dissolve the hardened carbon deposits. By the next day the seafoam will have drained past the rings softening and dissolving any carbon there as well. 

Reinstall the spark plug, and crank the engine over a few times with the ignition switch in the off position. This is to redistribute the engine oil that was washed away from the seafoam. The idea is to avoid a dry start. We want the cylinder wall and piston get oiled up before starting. 

Start her up and get ready for a fair amount of smoke. Once the oil has a chance to warm up and all the smoke has cleared shut her back down and change the oil.


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## iowagold

*when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the clean!*



drmerdp said:


> It’s great to have an hour meter for staying on top of maintenance , plus they double as a rpm gauge which is nice for reference.
> 
> ~100 hours between changes is pretty much par for the course for heavy use machines, but it can have consequences especially if using basic oil that doesn’t have an additive package suited for small air cooled engines.
> 
> Having a bit more background, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have quite a bit of carbon build up. Carbon build up on the rings can cause performance issues. Including oil consumption....
> 
> I suggest a combustion chamber and piston ring decarboning. It’s a simple process and all you need is a small funnel and some sea foam.
> 
> Pull the starter rope lightly until you hit the compression stroke and remove the spark plug. Take a flashlight and look to see if the piston is at the top of its stroke. If not carefully pull the rope a bit more.
> 
> Next grab your funnel and fill the combustion chamber fully. Fluid should be visible on the spark plug threads.
> 
> Let it sit over night... the seafoam will soften and dissolve the hardened carbon deposits. By the next day the seafoam will have drained past the rings softening and dissolving any carbon there as well.
> 
> Reinstall the spark plug, and crank the engine over a few times with the ignition switch in the off position. This is to redistribute the engine oil that was washed away from the seafoam. The idea is to avoid a dry start. We want the cylinder wall and piston get oiled up before starting.
> 
> Start her up and get ready for a fair amount of smoke. Once the oil has a chance to warm up and all the smoke has cleared shut her back down and change the oil.


when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
before you run!!
the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30

you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.

a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.

and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!

I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
https://hondagenerator.groups.io
join up if you have not already.


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## drmerdp

iowagold said:


> when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
> before you run!!
> the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
> then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30
> 
> you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
> ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
> and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.
> 
> a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
> if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.
> 
> and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
> I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
> warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!
> 
> I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
> https://hondagenerator.groups.io
> join up if you have not already.


He needs to still confirm and quantify how much oil he is burning after their “repair”. 

Agreed WARRENTY, but if things don’t work for any reason... A tear down to R&R rings is an excessive next move. 

Total cc volume at TDC is ~1oz , yes it will be in the oil but that’s a negligible quantity for the short time to burn off residuals and warm up the oil. Plus the sea foam will further clean up additional coking in the crankcase. 2-3 minutes tops...

First things first, how much oil Is he still burning?


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## Buzzsaw

The engine in this generator is a GC, Honda's cheapest engine which is EPA durability rated at 125 hours, and does not have a cast iron cylinder liner. Honda will not give it a 3 yr commercial warranty due to this. It sounds like your usage, hours per day etc, would be considered commercial. the cylinder is probably getting worn and you are getting blow by which is why you are going through oil. Another thing to consider is if it is being run on eco throttle full time you are probably getting carbon build up on the valve stem and seat area which could be another reason for burning oil. Get a decarbonizer for your fuel and run with eco throttle off for a few tanks and see if it improves. Honda had that issue with the EU2000i when only run on eco.


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## Resistor

RedOctobyr said:


> Good luck! I wouldn't expect valves being out of adjustment to cause burning oil, but maybe somehow? They can certainly cause other issues.
> 
> A blown head gasket, at least for some engines (Briggs OHV are one I can attest to) can cause burning oil.
> 
> You could attempt a simple leakdown test to see if you can hear air leaking from somewhere.
> 
> Glad you found the excess-oil level before running it more. It didn't smell like gas, did it? In some cases, something like a leaky carb needle valve can allow gas to run into the cylinder, and then the crankcase, raising the oil level. Is this an engine where you fill it through the dipstick hole? If so, it would beg the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.


The guy said there was no indication that it was burning oil. More like blowing it out with the exhaust.

Temps about 13* when I started up.
There was smoke coming from the exhaust for a minute or so, as I have come to expect.
Never was sure if it was oil, moisture or something else.

It ran a steady 10 hours.. never shut down.
I just added a couple of ounces of oil. 
Used almost 1.5 gallons of gas.

I did not notice any smell of gas when I cleaed up the oil that spilled out, nor when I removed the excess from the reservoir.

I agree: it begs the question of how on Earth it got over-filled that much.

Kinda makes me think poorly of that stupid technician and Honda of the Ozarks. I can't have any confidence in either of them, as much as I would like to.


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## Resistor

iowagold said:


> when cleaning with seafoam drain the oil right after the soak clean!
> before you run!!
> the crank case could be full of seafoam!! or weak oil!!
> then total drain crank case then refill with fresh good 10-30 castrol or good synthetic 10-30
> 
> you are better off with a tear down than to clean this way.
> ultrasonic the head and piston clean...
> and 90% of the time if it is coked up real bad you are looking at a piston and ring job.
> 
> a look in the spark plug hole should let you see what is up..
> if it looks chunky and flakey then plan a tear down for a super clean.
> 
> and a big note this should still be under honda warranty!!
> I would put in a call to north american honda asap!!
> warranty is 2-3 years for home owners!
> 
> I have a few links for gen service tools and hour meters over on the honda service forum
> https://hondagenerator.groups.io
> join up if you have not already.


The ultrasonic cleaning sounds like a major job.
I'm hoping to avoid a big expense in dealing with this problem.

I would not expect carbon build up to be covered by the warranty, as that would be a maintenance issue.

But a piston and ring job would sound like a warranty issue, unless they can point to neglect in maintenance.

I don't know, other than what everyone is saying, here.

Getting the spark plug out is easy enough. 
Looks as if I need to do that again, just to see what it looks like.

At some point, it would pay to sell this one and get a new one, as was suggested earlier.


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## Resistor

drmerdp said:


> He needs to still confirm and quantify how much oil he is burning after their “repair”.
> 
> Agreed WARRENTY, but if things don’t work for any reason... A tear down to R&R rings is an excessive next move.
> 
> Total cc volume at TDC is ~1oz , yes it will be in the oil but that’s a negligible quantity for the short time to burn off residuals and warm up the oil. Plus the sea foam will further clean up additional coking in the crankcase. 2-3 minutes tops...
> 
> First things first, how much oil Is he still burning?


There is that confidence thing,, again. 

They guy said there no other problems...
But, would he recognize carbon build up, if he saw it.?
I have my doubts.

I've had difficulty trying to look into the spark plug hole. It would require disconnecting more lines, so more time and complexity.

Buzzsaw's suggestion to use a decarbonizer in the gas, with eco throttle off, sounds appealing.


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## Resistor

Buzzsaw said:


> The engine in this generator is a GC, Honda's cheapest engine which is EPA durability rated at 125 hours, and does not have a cast iron cylinder liner. Honda will not give it a 3 yr commercial warranty due to this. It sounds like your usage, hours per day etc, would be considered commercial. the cylinder is probably getting worn and you are getting blow by which is why you are going through oil. Another thing to consider is if it is being run on eco throttle full time you are probably getting carbon build up on the valve stem and seat area which could be another reason for burning oil. Get a decarbonizer for your fuel and run with eco throttle off for a few tanks and see if it improves. Honda had that issue with the EU2000i when only run on eco.


Thank you for that insight. I've used some marvel mystery oil a couple of times, but could not see any improvement,

I'll look for some decarbonizer, tonight or tomorrow.


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## Resistor

The unit ran 11 hours, the last hour of which had the heaviest load of about 1,250 watts.

It shut off when I bumped it to rotate the switch closer to the dog house door. 
No need to turn the switch off.

Before, there were a couple of times it shut down just by reducing the load.

Look like it will require another couple of ounces of oil.


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## Resistor

Saturday night, the 15th, I added about 2.5 ounces of oil.
Then, I added some decarbonizer.

When I pulled the cord, a big cloud of smoke billowed out for a couple of minutes.
I failed to turn off the eco mode, so it ran the full 10 hours that way.

Now, Sunday night, I just added 1.5 ounces of oil and some more decarbonizer. Then, turned off eco mode.

There was a puff of smoke.

So, it looks like a big improvement on the first run.

It is purring smoothly, right now. 
Be real interesting to see if there is less oil consumption.


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## Resistor

After running 11 hours, it took 1 ounce of oil and I continued with the decarbonizer. I turned eco mode on, after 4 hours run time.

Last night, I started up in the dark. If there was visible exhaust after the initial puff of smoke, I could not see it.

Tonight, when I started up with eco mode off, a big, black puff of smoke blew out, followed by a nearly white stream of smoke that lasted a minute or 2. Then, no visible exhaust.

That is encouraging to me, again.


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## iowagold

so Resistor what brand of decarbonizer did you settle on?


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## Resistor

iowagold said:


> so Resistor what brand of decarbonizer did you settle on?


I was anxious to get started on the decarbonizer, so I stopped in at Walmart around midnight. After looking at their offerings, I got Star Tron in 8 oz. for $5.

I didn't know one from the other, so I got this one because I could calculate the amount I needed for 2 gallons of gas, in my head.

So, I been adding .20 ml ?, or around 75% to 80% of an ounce. I think I'll put some in my gas tank after I run out some gas. I added a little more than that, tonight.

I turned on the eco mode, after 3 hours.
It ran out of gas after 10 hours, 45 minutes. It was loafing as it ran out.

It took a little over 2 oz. oil, tonight. 
I'm wondering if that increase was due to the loafing, as it ran out of gas.?

When I started up tonight, the eco mode was still on.
There was no clouds, puffs or anything else to see.
Then, I turned eco mode off and some blue smoke streamed out for a minute or so.

I'll likely turn eco mode on after 2 or 3 hours.


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## iowagold

Resistor said:


> I was anxious to get started on the decarbonizer, so I stopped in at Walmart around midnight. After looking at their offerings, I got Star Tron in 8 oz. for $5.
> .


try this stuff
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sea-Foam-Motor-Treatment/16664932?
put it in the gasoline and a bit in the engine oil.
it works well here in the shop.
I have been using this stuff as well as stabile in the gasoline for over 30 years...
as long as you use it all of the time, I have yet to have any issues.

an one oz in the oil every oil change, and an one oz per gallon in the gasoline is what I use on the seafoam.

then on the stabile 6 oz per 5 gallons for long term storage for a heavy dose.

and for old gear full of junk like what you have with issues I run 2 oz per gallon of gasoline in each tank.
and change the spark plug every week with the oil change.
and use a bore camera to see how it is progressing.

during this mode till it is all clean I would leave the gen at high speed or eco in the off setting.

do you have the option of running on natural gas or propane in your area??
propane burns clean, and they make kits for conversion on most honda gen sets now.
and the good thing on propane it never goes bad during long term storage!

in most areas of the country they will come to your location and fill if you have 100 lb tanks.
and they just charge tank rental if you are on a plan.
there are auto switch over valves for 2 tank setups as well.

and the sweet thing is as there is less trash in the combustion.
you can go longer between oil changes!!
so if you are at 100 hours on an oil change on gasoline I have seen them with good synthetic oil go 500 hours with a magnetic dip stick on the oil changes! or longer!!
it all depends on the air in your location.. how clean it is etc.
this time of the year in the mid west, if it is not on a dusty site, 500 to 800 hours on oil change.
but check it every 2 days for level.
and change it if it starts to use a bit.

hard on your older system or longer run time...
it really needs to be rebuilt at this point..
just to get back to zero trash and zero wear.

price an replacement engine for the gen..
I have a link for the parts at poust usa
click on the parts fish banner at the bottom and use the coupon code.
it will go right to the honda generator section of parts fish.

I make the basic parts as
CYLINDER ASSY.
12000-Z8C-D00
RING SET, PISTON (STD) (TEIKOKU)
13010-Z0Y-014
PISTON
13101-Z8C-900
PIN, PISTON
13111-Z8D-000
ROD ASSY., CONNECTING
13200-Z0Y-010
2)CLIP, PISTON PIN (13MM)
90551-ZE0-000
and a price on just the basic parts at
100.00
I would also do
BELT, TIMING (84HU6 G-200)
14400-Z8B-003
COVER ASSY., CRANKCASE
11300-Z8C-D00
for an extra 47.71
so $150.00 in parts
plus some honda bond for the case seal.
depending on how the cam parts look and check out.
change out on this would take and afternoon in a good shop.
so 6 to 8 hours of time.
if you are handy this is not that bad of parts swap out.
at a repair shop...
it all depends on the rate they bill at!!
some are at $125 per hour now!! WOW!!:tango_face_surprise
so 8 hours at $125 is 1000.00! plus $150 parts at cost! $1200.00 …

the time is the big thing!!:tango_face_grin:

pm let me know if you need an address.
I am only 100 bucks on ups or fedex away each way.

or just buy a new unit for $1030.00 plus shipping. northern has them new for that. some times they have free shipping.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200669084_200669084?


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## Resistor

Thanks, Paul.

I had another little motor that had a problem that seemed to be fixed by Sea Foam.

But the problems continued. The symptoms were consistent with lack of air.

A small motor repairman told me that Sea Foam gummed up the works and created bigger problems. It even plugged up the spark arrestor.

I tried to analyze the cost of propane and natural gas. It seemed to be not worth the effort, given the issues that go with alternatives. I asked others about their experience, and they agreed. Some had penciled it out pretty well.

If this one peters out or costs too much, I may swap out a better motor or upgrade with a new generator with the other motor. We'll see.

I turned Eco Mode on after about 4 hours.
She ran 10 hours then shut off due to low oil.

I added a little over 2 oz. of Castrol on your recommendation, thinking that the Honda oil might have reduced oil consumption and hoping the same with Castrol.

When I pulled the cord, there was a good, black puff of smoke followed by a stream of white or light blue smoke, for a minute or so.


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## iowagold

so what is your oil change hours?
are you every 100 or 200 hours?


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## Resistor

iowagold said:


> so what is your oil change hours?
> are you every 100 or 200 hours?


That's right, as I look at it every day and haphazardly remember to do it.

It took 2/3 ounces of oil, tonight. I also added a little more Star Tron to the gas.

There was a smaller puff of black smoke followed by a brief interlude, then the white-blue smoke was noticeably heavier than before. That lasted less than a minute.

So I'm encouraged, again.


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## iowagold

Resistor said:


> Thanks, Paul.
> 
> I had another little motor that had a problem that seemed to be fixed by Sea Foam.
> 
> But the problems continued. The symptoms were consistent with lack of air.
> 
> A small motor repairman told me that Sea Foam gummed up the works and created bigger problems. It even plugged up the spark arrestor.
> 
> I tried to analyze the cost of propane and natural gas. It seemed to be not worth the effort, given the issues that go with alternatives. I asked others about their experience, and they agreed. Some had penciled it out pretty well.
> 
> If this one peters out or costs too much, I may swap out a better motor or upgrade with a new generator with the other motor. We'll see.
> 
> I turned Eco Mode on after about 4 hours.
> She ran 10 hours then shut off due to low oil.
> 
> I added a little over 2 oz. of Castrol on your recommendation, thinking that the Honda oil might have reduced oil consumption and hoping the same with Castrol.
> 
> When I pulled the cord, there was a good, black puff of smoke followed by a stream of white or light blue smoke, for a minute or so.


that brings up a good point!!
remove the spark arrestor when doing this kind of repair clean!
and save it for when you might be in a wooded area camping...
all the spark arrestor does is keeps the hot ash from starting a fire...
so if you are in a place like a drive way with no combustibles near the run area.
it is not an issue to leave it off the gen set.

yea that is my next thing to remove on my gens...
just another thing to cork up and cause issues...

note: never run a gen in a wooded area campground with this off the gen!! 
so bag it and tag it for future use.

and the other thing to bring up is the trash from the engine is caking up in the muffler..
so after the engine is clean replace the muffler or clean the inside of the muffler...
depending how expensive your gens muffler is for the model of gen you are working on.

muffler for this gen $20.52
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/18310-z43-b30/muffler

gasket for the muffler $1.00
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/18381-z43-b30/gasket-muffler

muffler for this setup is low cost...
so get a new muffler unit on the way.

did you find a good low cost bore scope yet??
you need to see inside the spark plug hole to see how clean things are..

if you are not needing power for a couple of days
you can always pull the spark plug and run the piston to top dead center and fill the spark plug hole full of good solvent.
to help break up the trash in side...
use a small dia blow gun inside the spark hold to blow things loose as well..
that soaking will help on the flaking stuff and the blow gun will get it loose..
repeat this several times... soak and flush...

and after you are done with the clean.
remember to change the oil before starting the engine.
and use a top cylinder lube spray to help lube the rings as they will be dry after the clean.

it is still best to do a full tear down...
but if you are not setup for the correct repair the flush will get you a bit cleaner..

I am still thinking the oil rings could be full of trash...
and even to the other rings as well..
and the ring end gap could be full of stuff..

yea get the spark arrestor out and at least clean it every other oil change...
honda calls for it to be cleaned in the oil service...
just like the air filter...

after all the gen needs to breath to work right!


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## Resistor

Sea Foam gummed up all the works from front to back, in the other motor, according to the technician. 

So I'm avoiding it altogether, in this one.

I do not have a bore scope.I keep thinking about removing the plug again, but since it still starts easily on the first or second pull, I don't think the plug is a problem. I'll be more motivated with warmer temperatures. 

Are you saying the Star Tron won't touch some of the carbon build up? I was hoping that the decarbonizer would remove all of it.

What other trash could be in it?

I do use it every day. Makes me wonder how long it will last, at the rate I'm running it.

I'm not a mechanic. I'll have to get it fixed or replace it, when it wears out.

The spark arrestor blew out, somewhere along the way.

It ran 8 or 9 hours, most with Eco off, before running out of gas. I added almost 2 ounces of Castrol and continued with the decarbonizer. Temps dropped below 15* for a bit, over night, but I don't know if that would have made any difference in oil consumption.

This was not encouraging as I was hoping to see a steady improvement in consumption with Castrol. Makes me wonder if Honda oil really is the way to go.

When I pulled the cord, there was another good puff of black smoke, followed by a billowy stream of white-blue smoke.


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## Resistor

It never shut down due to low oil, but I had to add about 1.5 oz to get it to start and run a bit, for an oil change.

I pulled the plug and it was black, including the threads. I scraped it off and put it back in. Worked good.

I finally got to see a little into the plug hole and pulled the cylinder to TDC. It looked like a rough black surface.

The technician at Honda of the Ozarks swapped out the 10 mm bolt for the oil drain, and replaced it with a 12 mm bolt. I'll have to remember to get another 10 mm bolt.

I have some Motor Kote oil additive that I intend to put in, tomorrow. Not sure it will do any good, but I have it.

It blew a good puff of black smoke, followed by the blue-white stream of smoke... Not as puffy as it was before the oil change.


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## drmerdp

Seafoam is not the enemy, I’m not sure how you used it previously. You are wasting your time hoping for consumption improvements with gasoline additives. 

You need to soak the top end with seafoam period. TDC, fill the cylinder to the top and let it soak. It will loosen carbon in the combustion chamber plus the piston and rings. RINGS, are the most important component that needs addressing. Depending on how quickly it drains out of the top of the motor into the oil, you can fill it again after a couple hours and wait till morning to drain the crankcase and fill with fresh oil.


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## Resistor

drmerdp said:


> Seafoam is not the enemy, I’m not sure how you used it previously. You are wasting your time hoping for consumption improvements with gasoline additives.
> 
> You need to soak the top end with seafoam period. TDC, fill the cylinder to the top and let it soak. It will loosen carbon in the combustion chamber plus the piston and rings. RINGS, are the most important component that needs addressing. Depending on how quickly it drains out of the top of the motor into the oil, you can fill it again after a couple hours and wait till morning to drain the crankcase and fill with fresh oil.


Hi, drmerdp.

I may have gotten too liberal with the Sea Foam, in the other motor. All I know is what the mechanic said he found, placing the blame on the Sea Foam. He seemed to not like that stuff very much.

I plan to add about an ounce of Sea Foam to the spark plug hole, some time this week, depending on rain and temperatures. I am a little concerned about positioning the cylinder at TDC, because it is so easy to move.

I'm encouraged that it ran about 8.5 hours and took .5 oz of Castrol. I did not add any Motor Kote. 

There was a small puff of dark smoke, not much of anything else... ie: no white-blue smoke.


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## Resistor

Getting the cylinder head to the top, was a little rougher today. The other day it was almost too easy.

After 3 hours soaking in seafoam, it appeared to have not leaked down much. It had been on the threads and they were clean, but the level looked to be just below the threads.

It was hard to tell in the dark, with light snow falling and I was trying to block it from hitting anything open.

I added more, to near the top of the threads, then inserted the plug to get more seafoam on those threads.

Hopefully, that had a positive affect in putting a little light pressure on the seafoam, to press it deeper. Then, I dipped a paper towel in to absorb some of it.

Seemed to be holding the fluid level. I saw no indication that the level was dropping, after adding more seafoam.

Total soak time was about 8 to 8.5 hours. The level had dropped, but I could not tell how much.

I drained then filled the oil. Ran for 5 or 6 minutes.
Then changed the oil, again. Blew mostly blue-white smoke for a bit, before it cleared up.

Depending on what I see in the plug hole, in the next day or 2, I'll repeat this exercise, with more soak time.


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## iowagold

hey question and something to look at!
these have a breather flapper!!
do you suppose the breather flapper is bad or plugged??
or the breather hose is bad , cracked etc?
it is a partial tear down to get to it
here is a pix of parts and location.
parts are from parts fish
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/a/hpe/57c991b787a86615d4473151/cylinder

pix of the parts link;
http://www.poustusa.com/GENERATOR_HELP_PAGES/HONDA_EG2800_PIX/hondaeg2800breatherpixparts.JPG


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## Resistor

I would not imagine the breather flapper is bad. Maybe plugged due to oil blowing by the rings.? 
I don't know, but I would like to avoid any tear down, if possible.

She ran about 7.5 hours. 
Oil level looked good, so I did not add more.

It was hard to tell, but I think it may have used a little. 

Then, again, I have to wonder if there were air pockets when I changed the oil. 

Or, whether the slight apparent consumption was due to shrinkage while shut down in low temps, around 30*.

Not feeling too energetic, so will repeat the soaking in a day or 2.


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## iowagold

temps are to be better this weekend

see if you can see the side cover for the flapper
it is just screwed on
easy to clean it!


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## Resistor

Soaked in Sea Foam - 13 hours. Changed oil, cycled cylinder 3 or 4 times, ran 7 minutes, changed oil again. 

Still running after 10 hours. I turned Eco mode on at 50 minutes.


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## drmerdp

Alright, that should be good. The million dollar Question now is if oil consumption changes.


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## Resistor

When I added the Sea Foam to start the 13 hour soak, I noticed some bubbling, as it filled the voids. I added more, maybe a half oz, after about 8 or 9 hours.

I just added about .5 oz oil. 

She blew a puff of black smoke, then she blew clear.


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## Resistor

She ran 11 hours, ran out of gas and took 1 oz of oil. 

Consumption does not seem to be improving.

I'm wondering if it might be advisable to use some decarbonizer in the same fashion as I've been using Sea Foam.?


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## Resistor

Low Oil Shut Down after 4 hr., 45 minutes.
Took 1.75 oz.

Not encouraging...

Could this indicate that the Sea Foam soak is working, but against a big build up of carbon...?


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## iowagold

what did the oil look like after the 11 hours of run right after the oil change??
what brand of oil? and wt?

I still think a full tear down is needed..
or at least look at the flapper for the pcv..

hum you might be able to look at the carb pcv vent tube and see if it is heavy with junk...
or maybe pull the air cleaner cover and see if there is oil from the crankcase in there..

crc marine stuff
https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-Engine-Tune-Up-and-Decarbonizer/33271379?
might be better??
I guess if I had to trust a spray I would use the crc..

is the oil black after the 11 hours of run time??

question
are you using oil on the foam filter?


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## Resistor

Is this gas cap vented.?

Ok, Paul. At $89 per hour, how long would it take to do a full tear down, clean up and put back together, plus parts,,, assuming the technician knew what he was doing.?

And I would have to find someone other than Honda of the Ozarks, that knows what he is doing, even if Honda accepts the job under warranty.

The oil was dark but I could not see the color that well. It is darker than it was, but there is less carbon on the magnetic dipstick, since switching to Castrol.

I have not applied any oil to the air filter.

I routed the crank case vent tube to a catch can, which has accumulated some oil, and maybe some water.

Still have to finish that process by capping the gas line vent. I'm not too concerned about the canister.

I'm also still a little under the weather, but you seem to be grasping at straws. What makes you think there might be a problem at the carb pcv vent tube or the air cleaner.?

Are the symptoms pointing to those items.?

Following up my Wednesday morning post #52 ... She took 1.75 oz oil on the low oil shutdown, after 4.75 hours.
She shutdown again, about 4 hours later.

I think it took another 1.75 oz oil on Wednesday night.

Thursday morning, it was hard to tell if she shutdown due to low oil or out of gas, after 8.75 hours. She ran with Eco mode off for 3 hr.

The trailer was parked on a little slope and she took 1.9 gallons of gas and 1.75 oz oil, tonight. There was a good puff of black smoke followed by a short, puffy stream of white-blue smoke.

Now, I'm worried. There is a sound that I do not recall - like a whirring sound. Not a high pitch or a low pitch.

So, I don't know what to expect now.
Still thinking about doing the cylinder head soak in Sea Foam, again.

I wonder how the CRC Engine Decarbonizer you linked to, would work as a cylinder head soak vs. Sea Foam.?


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## RedOctobyr

I don't remember if this has been covered: is the head gasket ok? I had a Briggs OHV with a blown head gasket (between the combustion chamber and the valve gallery), which made it burn oil.


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## Melson

Resistor, that oil consumption is not normal, and I don't believe that any oil or fuel additive is going to be a cure all.
I wish I had more substance to add. But sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. it's a duck. In other words, a mechanical issue.


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## Resistor

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't remember if this has been covered: is the head gasket ok? I had a Briggs OHV with a blown head gasket (between the combustion chamber and the valve gallery), which made it burn oil.


I would not know how to determine if the head gasket is ok. 
I'm not going to open it up, since I'm not a mechanic. 

I am dependent on the technician's skill and ability to communicate.

He said there was nothing wrong with what he saw as he earned the $133 I was charged for his service, by Honda of the Ozarks.


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## Resistor

Melson said:


> Resistor, that oil consumption is not normal, and I don't believe that any oil or fuel additive is going to be a cure all.
> I wish I had more substance to add. But sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. it's a duck. In other words, a mechanical issue.


You are right, of course. I appreciate it.

It would seem that a carbon build up would be a mechanical issue which should be visible to the technician, if he knew what he was looking at.

I have absolutely no confidence in his qualifications or abilities. 

So, I'm left with finding someone authorized by Honda, that knows what they are doing.

Or replacing the unit altogether, with a unit with the better motor.

Then, it becomes a question of cost to repair vs. cost of a replacement minus any residual value left in this one.


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## Melson

Resistor, it's certainly possible carbon build-up was the root cause of the problem. A tear down and forensics would answer the Q.
Carbon deposits can, and have, scored metal parts. While I don't consider carbon a purely a mechanical issue, per se', damage from it certainly can be. And, thus, my comment about the additives.


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## iowagold

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't remember if this has been covered: is the head gasket ok? I had a Briggs OHV with a blown head gasket (between the combustion chamber and the valve gallery), which made it burn oil.


sorry red this is a honda split case, no head gasket
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/12000-z8c-d00/cylinder-assy:tango_face_devil:


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## RedOctobyr

Cool, thank you. Glad to know that's something that wouldn't apply, and doesn't need to be worried about.


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