# Questions On A Nearly Full 200 Amp Panel



## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

Hi. I am buying a new 10,000 watt portable generator with the intent to plug it into a transfer switch to my main panel. I plan on bringing an electrician in but have a couple of questions in the meantime. I have a main panel that is 200 amps and a subpanel in my garage but the main panel has the circuits that I want to use with the transfer panel. The new generator has a 120/240V, 50A – (NEMA 14-50R) outlet. It also has a 30A NEMA L14-30R outlet but I believe it's the 50A outlet I need to use to connect to the outdoor outlet for the transfer switch once it is installed. My question is whether there will be any issues tying in the transfer switch into the main panel given that there are only 2 slots left. I have an acquaintance who is a contractor and he was going off about potential issues I may have and that I may need to upgrade my panel. Anyway, see attached photo of my main panel. Slots 28 and 30 are available. Slots 16 and 18 go out to my subpanel which does have a number of open slots. I only know the basics about how a transfer switch ties into the main panel. I don't know any more than that so I am looking for an assessment and any advice anyone has. Thanks!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Can you post a zoomed out view of the panel with door open?


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

I would either use a MA24 GenerLink or move down breakers to make space below the main breaker and install a Square-D interlock (check to see which one is appropriate for your panel).


Transfer Switch | Global Power Products










Square D Homeline 150-225 Amp Indoor Load Center Generator Interlock Kit HOMCGK2C - The Home Depot


Avoid the inconveniences that an unexpected power outage can cause with this Homeline Indoor Generator Interlock Kit. The Square D Homeline Cover Generator and QOM2 Frame Size Main Breaker Interlock Kit



www.homedepot.com


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

tabora said:


> I would either use a MA24 GenerLink or move down breakers to make space below the main breaker and install an interlock.
> 
> 
> Transfer Switch | Global Power Products
> ...


Agree, an interlock is the way to go.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Tandem breakers could be used to free up some space. I've never used them myself but there's enough electricians on this forum to weigh in. Example I grabbed at random attached. 









Square D Homeline 2-20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT2020CP - The Home Depot


The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (2) single-pole, 20 Amp breakers in 1 pole space. It is used for overload and short-circuit protection of your



www.homedepot.com


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Can you post a zoomed out view of the panel with door open?


Here you go!


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

exmar said:


> Tandem breakers could be used to free up some space. I've never used them myself but there's enough electricians on this forum to weigh in. Example I grabbed at random attached.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That load center doesn't accept tandem breakers. Spec sheet indicates maximum number of tandem breakers is zero. It has 30 slots and 30 circuits:








HOM30M200C - Load center, Homeline, 1 phase, 30 spaces, 30 circuits, 200A convertible main breaker, NEMA1, combo cover | Schneider Electric USA


Schneider Electric USA. HOM30M200C - Load center, Homeline, 1 phase, 30 spaces, 30 circuits, 200A convertible main breaker, NEMA1, combo cover.




www.se.com


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

tabora said:


> I would either use a MA24 GenerLink or move down breakers to make space below the main breaker and install a Square-D interlock (check to see which one is appropriate for your panel).
> 
> 
> Transfer Switch | Global Power Products
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I will need to digest this more but so far it seems like there are no red flags which is what I was concerned with.


Browse Deweb said:


> That load center doesn't accept tandem breakers. Spec sheet indicates maximum number of tandem breakers is zero. It has 30 slots and 30 circuits:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Youre in a good position to proceed. Your panel will be full but that won’t effect your ability to install your interlock.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

OK I have learned alot already. I found a photo of what it would look like although this photo is if the main was on the bottom. Mine is on top. It seems like the electrician would move all of the breakers on the right side down two slots so that the two available slots would be on top. The breakers for the generator would fill those two slots and the interlock switch would switch between those breakers and the main. I am sure this is straightforward for everyone on this forum, but new to me. If there are any gotcha's or anything I am missing, let me know. Thanks for your help.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i would do a couple of tandems then also add an whole house surge protector as well
and also look at a meters box as an add on.
pm if you need links.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

tf6217 said:


> OK I have learned alot already. I found a photo of what it would look like although this photo is if the main was on the bottom. Mine is on top. It seems like the electrician would move all of the breakers on the right side down two slots so that the two available slots would be on top. The breakers for the generator would fill those two slots and the interlock switch would switch between those breakers and the main. I am sure this is straightforward for everyone on this forum, but new to me. If there are any gotcha's or anything I am missing, let me know. Thanks for your help.


You wouldn't need to move all of the breakers on one side down. Just move the two top circuits where the generator breaker will go down to the bottom. The two hot wires being moved need to be extended inside the panel using standard twist-on wire connectors and some matching gauge black or red wire.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Browse Deweb said:


> You wouldn't need to move all of the breakers on one side down. Just move the two top circuits where the generator breaker will go down to the bottom. The two hot wires being moved need to be extended inside the panel using standard twist-on wire connectors and some matching gauge black or red wire.


Agreed, this keeps the panel circuit labels mostly untouched.



iowagold said:


> i would do a couple of tandems then also add an whole house surge protector as well
> and also look at a meters box as an add on.
> pm if you need links.


Good suggestion but The panel isn’t listed for tandems. Unless square d‘s homeline breakers has a non circuit limiting tandem like QO Does.


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## JVazquez53 (Jul 8, 2021)

tf6217 said:


> Hi. I am buying a new 10,000 watt portable generator with the intent to plug it into a transfer switch to my main panel. I plan on bringing an electrician in but have a couple of questions in the meantime. I have a main panel that is 200 amps and a subpanel in my garage but the main panel has the circuits that I want to use with the transfer panel. The new generator has a 120/240V, 50A – (NEMA 14-50R) outlet. It also has a 30A NEMA L14-30R outlet but I believe it's the 50A outlet I need to use to connect to the outdoor outlet for the transfer switch once it is installed. My question is whether there will be any issues tying in the transfer switch into the main panel given that there are only 2 slots left. I have an acquaintance who is a contractor and he was going off about potential issues I may have and that I may need to upgrade my panel. Anyway, see attached photo of my main panel. Slots 28 and 30 are available. Slots 16 and 18 go out to my subpanel which does have a number of open slots. I only know the basics about how a transfer switch ties into the main panel. I don't know any more than that so I am looking for an assessment and any advice anyone has. Thanks!


My transfer switch is connected to the main breaker and is a different setup than you guys use. I have not seen this setup being used in USA, its heavy duty and foolproof. It's what most people here in Puerto Rico use. Power goes out: pull the lever down, outside power gets cut off and generator power goes in. The top red light shows when there's outside power coming in. There's a little green LED in the bottom that comes on when there's generator power. With the top red light I can tell when the powers comes back and ate the same time how much voltage is coming into the house


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

see if you can get a bit closer for a clear picture on the transfer switch eaton label


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## JVazquez53 (Jul 8, 2021)

iowagold said:


> see if you can get a bit closer for a clear picture on the transfer switch eaton label


I'll try tomorrow during daytime. Its a simple manual transfer switch. Lever up: power from the electric company. Middle: everyting off. Lever down: Generator power.


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## motormonkey (Jul 10, 2016)

Since your main panel is almost full, why don't you consider adding a subpanel next to the main panel? Subpanels are available already equipped with an interlock. You can move the circuits you want to power with the generator to the subpanel, and free up spaces in your main panel for any future expansion that you might need. Here is what I did. Only one breaker to switch when I switch to generator.


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## JVazquez53 (Jul 8, 2021)

JVazquez53 said:


> I'll try tomorrow during daytime. Its a simple manual transfer switch. Lever up: power from the electric company. Middle: everyting off. Lever down: Generator power.


Here are the extra pics, specifically the one for the Eaton transfer switch. Also I added a surge protector to the house.


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## Gen10K (Jun 25, 2020)

I use a 50 Amp 2 Phase Camper Receprtacle with an RV extension and what is called a Dog Bone Surge Protector. Is connected to both phases on my Circuit Breaker Panel and also has a Switch to disconnect from the grid. All in the house work as before, however, since I am dealing with 50 Amps and reduced power (NG) setup (around 6KW), I have to be consious on what electrical appliances I am using at the same time.

The reson for that is, that I can use the same setup for my Camper if I need to.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

JVazquez53 said:


> Here are the extra pics, specifically the one for the Eaton transfer switch. Also I added a surge protector to the house.


ah
the model number tag for the switch might be on the inside of the transfer switch.
open the cover and snap a pix for us 

and good job on the sure protection!


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## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)

tf6217 said:


> Here you go!


I’d agree with the post above. Move the top 2 breakers down to free up the space for a generator breaker then use a mechanical interlock. You’ll have full access to any of the circuits you want on with the generator ( on the main panel or sud panel). Though you will have to manually manage the breakers you want on so you’re not overloading your generator. . From a load perspective you’re not adding any load to your system with the generator breaker so can’t see why you’d have to change the panel. 
cheers.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

Thanks for your response as well as responses by everyone else. It is clear to me that I should move the top 2 breakers on the right side down to the bottom. I have been reading alot about interlock vs transfer switch and it does seem like interlock is the way to go. Most of the circuits I want to run are on the main panel but I am adding central air which is being wired to the subpanel due to the lack of slots on the main panel. Another reason why the interlock sounds like the way to go. I was concerned with overloading the generator but it sounds like I need to manage this by managing the load, flipping off some circuits and worst case the breaker on the generator will trip if overpowered. I am planning on buying a Firman tri-fuel generator with the following specs:

*OUTPUT*

Running Watts8000(Gas) 7250(LPG) 5500(NG)Starting Watts10000(Gas) 9050(LPG) 6900(NG)

I plan to hook it up to my natural gas line that is going to my gas grille. The supported wattage is alot less than gasoline so I will need to be more careful when running with natural gas. Maybe I will run gasoline during the day when usage is higher and natural gas at night. If anyone has any comments, let me know.


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## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)

tf6217 said:


> Thanks for your response as well as responses by everyone else. It is clear to me that I should move the top 2 breakers on the right side down to the bottom. I have been reading alot about interlock vs transfer switch and it does seem like interlock is the way to go. Most of the circuits I want to run are on the main panel but I am adding central air which is being wired to the subpanel due to the lack of slots on the main panel. Another reason why the interlock sounds like the way to go. I was concerned with overloading the generator but it sounds like I need to manage this by managing the load, flipping off some circuits and worst case the breaker on the generator will trip if overpowered. I am planning on buying a Firman tri-fuel generator with the following specs:
> 
> *OUTPUT*
> 
> ...


My neighbor runs his generator in a similar fashion. Gas during the day when it’s easier to fill up. Nat gas at night so he doesn’t have to get out of bed! 
If you’re willing to spend a little extra, reliance sell a wattage meter that you can install near the panel. Uses a small toroid that you pass each hot leg of the cable from the panel to the inlet box. There are also tons of cheap Chinese options on wattage meters that work the same way but you need to power most of them where as the reliance one is passive. But to the point. If you install a wattage meter you can get a good feel for what you can safely have on so you’re not overloading the gen set. 
cheers.


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## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)




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## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)

macdenewf said:


> View attachment 10483
> 
> View attachment 10482


Or. 2 of these. But you need to power the digital ones.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

tf6217 said:


> Thanks for your response as well as responses by everyone else. It is clear to me that I should move the top 2 breakers on the right side down to the bottom. I have been reading alot about interlock vs transfer switch and it does seem like interlock is the way to go. Most of the circuits I want to run are on the main panel but I am adding central air which is being wired to the subpanel due to the lack of slots on the main panel. Another reason why the interlock sounds like the way to go. I was concerned with overloading the generator but it sounds like I need to manage this by managing the load, flipping off some circuits and worst case the breaker on the generator will trip if overpowered. I am planning on buying a Firman tri-fuel generator with the following specs:
> 
> *OUTPUT*
> 
> ...


what is the btu rating on that gen set?
make sure the line is large enough for the gen set.
that is the cc's on the engine?
i like 1 inch on NG feed to medium gens.
then size down to 1/2 couplers and use 3/4 id hose.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

iowagold said:


> what is the btu rating on that gen set?
> make sure the line is large enough for the gen set.
> that is the cc's on the engine?
> i like 1 inch on NG feed to medium gens.
> then size down to 1/2 couplers and use 3/4 id hose.


Yes, I have been reading about the issues with gas pressure and line size. Attached are the specs for the generator and a picture of my gas line. I have no idea what the gas specs mean. Firman told me they require a 1/2" gas line to regulate the gas pressure. In the photo of my gas line, I have a clamp controlling my shutoff. The shutoff says 1/2", but then it seems to get reduced. I couldn't see any labeling on the hose to my grille. The gas line comes out of the house about 10 feet away and the gas coming into the house is about 30 feet away if that matters. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

macdenewf said:


> View attachment 10483
> 
> View attachment 10482


I love this idea but the generator I am buying has a max running watts of 8000 and the Reliance is only rated to 7500. Is there one that will work with my generator?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

most gens need 150k btu min.
a gas grill needs 30-80k btu depending on how large the grill is.
3/4 would be the bare min.
so on the 1/2 line what is the total feet from the T from the larger line and the size on the larger line
and how many 90 deg fittings? each 90deg fitting is a minus 5 feet from the size chart.


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## Bluwolf (Nov 8, 2020)

tf6217 said:


> I love this idea but the generator I am buying has a max running watts of 8000 and the Reliance is only rated to 7500. Is there one that will work with my generator?


The Reliance MB75 is only good to 7500W. That's the one I have. But the MB125 is good to 12,500W.https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-Corporation-MB125-Indoor/dp/B00AHTWSCW


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

iowagold said:


> most gens need 150k btu min.
> a gas grill needs 30-80k btu depending on how large the grill is.
> 3/4 would be the bare min.
> so on the 1/2 line what is the total feet from the T from the larger line and the size on the larger line
> and how many 90 deg fittings? each 90deg fitting is a minus 5 feet from the size chart.


Thanks for your reply. I attached two photos of my indoor gas line. The photo that is titled 3/4 to 1/2 inch (the one with the red water shutoff), you can see where I think it goes from 3/4" (could be 1") to 1/2". From the tee moving to the right is what the next photo shows. The 1/2" inch gas line from the previous photo continues on in this photo where the red hook on the left is. The distance from the 3/4" to 1/2" fitting to the red hook is about 3 feet. As you can see, there is an elbow that runs to the tee on the right. That is about 2 feet. From there, it's about 12 feet outside to an elbow and another foot to the shutoff valve that I showed you in my last post. I attached the shutoff valve photo again. What I am going to try to do is attach a 1/2 gas hose from my generator to the quick connect on the shutoff valve but I am not sure if the pressure is reduced there and won't give me enough pressure. Firman told me that a 1/2" hose should be used to regulate the pressure to the generator. Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

how far are you from the meter to the gen set?
can you get a 1 inch direct from the meter to the gen area?
they make pipe unions that help with system pipes that are already in place.

if you had 1 inch to the gen area, then you could do a mini manifold with 2 shuts offs and valves outside so you could run the grill and the gen at the same time.
neck down to 3/4 valves and 1/2 couplers at the point of use.
that is nice for when you are on extended outage to be able to boil water outside for drinking or for grilling some dinner.

that outside pipe needs replaced any way.
make sure to use good rust proof primer and rust proof paint.
they make the pro cans of pain these days with high solids.
a can goes a long ways!
pm if you need links.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

This site has alot of good info on pipe sizing.





Natural Gas Generator Pipe Size Chart


Pipe Size Chart and Installation Information for Installing a Natural Gas Generator.



uscarb.com





My suggestion is to draw a pipe map with lengths and diameters For us to see And for your own experience. Your system looks to be 3/4 and 1/2 in those pictures. I can almost guarantee that you don’t have enough volume tapping into your existing system. A home run from the meter would be the best move. 

Your generators 439cc engine is approximately 14-15hp. A safe rule of thumb is 10,000btu per HP, so 150,000 btu of supply volume will guarantee proper fuel Quantity. In all likely hood you’ll need far less supply during normal operation with the generator mildly loaded but that leaves zero reserve for when other NG appliances are operating. Inadequate supply can cause the generator to bog and send voltages and frequency tumbling. It’s not worth damaging your devices and appliances.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup in the case of NG to a gen bigger is better on the pipe dia.
so for standard port gens.
i like 1 inch to the gen location with valves on both ends.
at the feed and at the point of use for safety shut off just in case you want to work on it or of you get a leak.

and if you are in earth quake areas ( almost all of the usa now ) make sure to have the new earth quake whole house shut off units put on for the new gas regulations.
they help keep you safe...

we had another bit of bumps last month here... a 2.xx rumble ...
and that is Iowa! lol!

they say those valves work for storm damage if you get a lot of building shaking.
and might be a good idea for storm areas!


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> This site has alot of good info on pipe sizing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I had alot of fun after Thanksgiving dinner lol! Thank you so much for the information and the link to the generator pipe size page. Incredibly helpful! Attached is the pipe layout for my house as well as the calculations I came up with. I am pretty sure I have 1" and 1/2" pipes. I measured the circumference of each and used a pipe size chart I found and it looks like those are the pipe sizes. I don't believe I have any 3/4" pipes. In addition to the 2 notes in the diagram, there were several BTU numbers on my gas boiler so I included 2 of them. Note that the boiler is 30 years old. Here are some comments on my calculations. I realize this is new to me and I may be way off on my assumptions:

I used the 14.5 horsepower number you provided and the 145 CFH full load number that was derived from the horsepower. One thing I wondered about was that the generator specs have the generator running natural gas at 69% of the wattage compared to gasoline. I was wondering why that is and whether the CFH full load number with natural gas is also 69% which would be around 100 CFH. 
The only thing off of legs I, J, K and L is the gas grill. If it is not used during an outage, that seems to give me 73 CFH which seems to get me close to the 100 CFH number but pretty far away from 145 CFH.
If I was to tap off of Leg G, that should give me 180 CFH (286 - 106) which would get me to both numbers but where does that leave the gas stove when that needs to be used? The 55,000 BTUs is if all 4 burners + oven are used at 100%, but at 2 burners + oven that would be fine if we are trying to get through a power outage. Seems like that would fit within the available CFH.
It seems like tapping off of Leg G (before the gas stove) is the way to go. It's certainly doable because it should be fairly easy to tap in there and run a line to the outside wall. It would be close to where I was planning on locating the generator as well. Of course, that would require a plumber and extra expense. I'd love to be able to run it off of the existing 1/2" line but that may not work if 73 CFH is not enough. Let me know your thoughts on all this. If anyone else wants to chime in, please do.

Finally, what did you mean in your last post by "A home run from the meter would be the best move. ". Thanks again!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

tf6217 said:


> Well I had alot of fun after Thanksgiving dinner lol! Thank you so much for the information and the link to the generator pipe size page. Incredibly helpful! Attached is the pipe layout for my house as well as the calculations I came up with. I am pretty sure I have 1" and 1/2" pipes. I measured the circumference of each and used a pipe size chart I found and it looks like those are the pipe sizes. I don't believe I have any 3/4" pipes. In addition to the 2 notes in the diagram, there were several BTU numbers on my gas boiler so I included 2 of them. Note that the boiler is 30 years old. Here are some comments on my calculations. I realize this is new to me and I may be way off on my assumptions:
> 
> I used the 14.5 horsepower number you provided and the 145 CFH full load number that was derived from the horsepower. One thing I wondered about was that the generator specs have the generator running natural gas at 69% of the wattage compared to gasoline. I was wondering why that is and whether the CFH full load number with natural gas is also 69% which would be around 100 CFH.
> The only thing off of legs I, J, K and L is the gas grill. If it is not used during an outage, that seems to give me 73 CFH which seems to get me close to the 100 CFH number but pretty far away from 145 CFH.
> ...


Nicely done. The pipe map really clears things up. I agree tapping off of G should be satisfactory. The 1” x 1/2” x1” tee can be replaced with a 1”x1”x1” and keep 1” all the way to the end necking down to the right sized quick disconnect.

The only limiting factor to your system is the gas meter itself. Most are rated for 250cfh. A buddy of mine that works for the gas company tells me that there is more wiggle room to that number as long as the distribution lines in the street are under pressure. Essentially if you have a pressure regulator before your meter.

“home run” meaning a dedicated pipe from at the meter to the generators location. Since your trunk line is 1” you should be ok. If the trunk line was 3/4 tapping off of it would not have been sufficient.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just remember the gas pipe size is the inside diameter.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Nicely done. The pipe map really clears things up. I agree tapping off of G should be satisfactory. The 1” x 1/2” x1” tee can be replaced with a 1”x1”x1” and keep 1” all the way to the end necking down to the right sized quick disconnect.
> 
> ”home run” meaning a dedicated pipe from the meter right to the generators location. If your existing trunk line was 3/4 this would have been absolutely necessary.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation around the home run pipe. It is a possibility but would mean I would need to locate the generator further to the front of my house which is not preferable. I'll probably go with tapping in at the end of the 1" pipe as discussed. Do you think there is any chance the existing 1/2" connection would work? Firman said they require a 1/2 inch hose to regulate the pressure so there seems to be an expectation for a 1/2" connection.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

1/2 pipe has a steep drop off as it get longer. A few feet is one thing but a total of ~30ft including restrictions from elbows and quick connects cannot support enough gas volume.



iowagold said:


> just remember the gas pipe size is the inside diameter.


This is a good point, 3/4” black pipe has a ~1” outer diameter. Make sure you have your measurements correct. 


Nominal size [inches]Outside diameter [inches]Outside diameter [mm]Wall thickness [inches]Wall thickness [mm]Weight [lb/ft]Weight [kg/m]1/8 inches0.405 inches10.3 MM0.068 inches1.73 MM0.24 lb/ft0.37 kg/m1/4 inches0.540 inches13.7 MM0.088 inches2.24 MM0.42 lb/ft0.84 kg/m1/2 inches0.840 inches21.3 MM0.109 inches2.77 MM0.85 lb/ft1.27 kg/m3/4 inches1.050 inches26.7 MM0.113 inches2.87 MM1.13 lb/ft1.69 kg/m1 inches1.315 inches33.4 MM0.133 inches3.38 MM1.68 lb/ft2.50 kg/m1 1/4 inches1.660


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

I was expecting that response  I will line up the plumber and consult with him. If pipe size is as expected then I will tap into the 1" pipe. Thanks everyone!


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## Gen10K (Jun 25, 2020)

tf6217 said:


> Thanks for your response as well as responses by everyone else. It is clear to me that I should move the top 2 breakers on the right side down to the bottom. I have been reading alot about interlock vs transfer switch and it does seem like interlock is the way to go. Most of the circuits I want to run are on the main panel but I am adding central air which is being wired to the subpanel due to the lack of slots on the main panel. Another reason why the interlock sounds like the way to go. I was concerned with overloading the generator but it sounds like I need to manage this by managing the load, flipping off some circuits and worst case the breaker on the generator will trip if overpowered. I am planning on buying a Firman tri-fuel generator with the following specs:
> 
> *OUTPUT*
> 
> ...


If you check all the UL Data Plates for all the Wattages, you might be able to come up with a good power consumption plan. I was able to run a Washing Machine, AC, a couple of TVs, 2 Fridges and a small freezer on 5.5KW. Also, refirgerators does not need to be plugged in 24/7, if the doors are closed (get what you need and do not open again), you might be able to stretch 6 hrs at the time. However, if the oven and microwave were off limits while the washing machine was on. I rather do that and save the Gasoline when is much need it. Most of the time, when there is a power failure, the local fuel stations cannot pump fuel, and if they can, the lines are a mile long.


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## Preppme57 (10 mo ago)

motormonkey said:


> Since your main panel is almost full, why don't you consider adding a subpanel next to the main panel? Subpanels are available already equipped with an interlock. You can move the circuits you want to power with the generator to the subpanel, and free up spaces in your main panel for any future expansion that you might need. Here is what I did. Only one breaker to switch when I switch to generator.
> View attachment 10438
> View attachment 10439


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## Preppme57 (10 mo ago)

I used the same Reliance transfer switch, model TRc1005c. It is connected to the main panel with a 220 volt 100 amp breaker, that is also the same size breaker in the transfer switch itself. This breaker is coupled to the 220v double 50 amp from my generator. Since they are coupled, all that needs to be done is to switch the main breaker off in the transfer switch, and then turn on the backup gen breaker. The way the 2 are interlocked it is impossible to have both on at the same time. Works like a charm.


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## tf6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

Hi all. It's taken a while because getting tradespeople for smaller jobs is difficult in these times! I was able to get an electrician to install the interlock and outlet to my generator. It works great. The challenge now is getting a plumber to tap into my natural gas line and run a pipe to my generator. See attached photos. In the first photo, my gas meter is on the left. The generator is in a shed that I built that is to the right of the hose reel box on the very right of that photo (shed is not show in that photo). The 2nd photo shows the generator shed. It's probably about 20 feet from the gas meter to the hose reel box where I would want the gas line to run to. I had a plumber friend who looked at it last year and said it would probably be around $650 to do it. That friend is no longer an option unfortunately. I finally was able to get another plumber over and he gave me a quote of $1850. He said the job would be to run the gas pipe on the outside of the house and increase the meter to 1 1/4". Permit and inspection included. I am sure the $650 quote was a friend rate and I was expecting this other plumber to quote me a higher price, but wasn't expecting this high of a price. I live in Massachusetts so everything is expensive and things have gotten more expensive probably since I got the $650 quote. Just wanted to get people's comments on this. Maybe $1850 is a fair price. Tough for me to justify though given I do have the gasoline option and also have the interlock so I do have a working option. Natural gas would eliminate going to the gas station and potential lines and shortages if there was some sort of natural disaster. I hesitate to say that it's been a long time since we had a power outage here but of course it will happen now lol! Anyway, let me know your thoughts.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

That price of $1,850 doesn't sound outrageous for today's prices as everything has gone way up. You could save some money by doing it yourself. Where I am, homeowners can run their own NG lines. Of course, we get a permit and inspection. If you are not comfortable running the pipes, then hire a handyman (cheaper than a plumber) to do it for you. He would work under your permit (if you are allowed to do your own plumbing). You would have to buy or rent a gauge so that the plumbing can be pressure tested after installation. Check with your local AHJ for the pressure and time the system needs to be under test before the final inspection is done. BTW, during that time all the other gas valves in the house have to be shut off and they pull/disconnect the meter and plug the line there.

As for going to 1-1/4", do you need it? If you do, then the gas company might set a new meter for you at no cost. In some areas they do that.

I would put a tee below the union and buy nipples of the correct length to make the overall length between the meter and the union the original length so that it fits. (It looks like the meter is tilted a little, so maybe a slightly longer length than it is now would work.)


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i agree the price is not too far out of line.
almost every job right now is a grand or more.

if you decide to take it on yourself plan the system close and yes overbuild it!
the new contractor is planning an good over build.

at common rates of over 100/ hour per guy these days...
easy to get a grand in a job.
time, materials and insurance... yup you can get there fast!

too bad you did not get the bubba rate!

you might visit with the gas guy's!
some of them do stuff on the side!


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