# Bad Experience with Honda EU2000i Generator



## Tinkerer

I've been a Honda fan my entire life. My first Honda was a 50cc dirt bike when I was 6 years old. I've had Honda cars, Honda motorcycles, a pressure washer with a Honda engine, Honda lawnmowers, and I would always purchase and pay more for anything with Honda on it. I've never had any problems until my recent fiasco with a brand new EU2000i generator, and I've been shocked at their customer service. 

My goal is not to bash Honda, but to hopefully catch the eye of someone here that can get me the right help. I'm don't think I'm talking to the right decision makers currently. 

Here's the story... Last year in March we were hit with a tiny ice storm here in SC, and it led to the loss of power for a day. We lost some of the servers for the day at our small business, and things got chaotic. We had backup power for our shop, but I refused to let anyone run our sensitive servers on anything less than an inverter generator. That same week we ordered an EU2000i from Wise Sales to prevent downtime in the future. We received the generator a few days later, and it went on the shelf along with a bottle of Honda oil for when we needed it. We did not want to put gas and oil in the generator to just sit until it needed to be used, so it remained in the box. 
Fast forward to August 6th, 2015, and we lost power for the first time. We have about 5 hours worth of battery backup power, so we let things ride for a couple of hours. When the power was still out after a couple of hours, I grabbed the EU2000i for it's grand debut. One of our other guys went down to QT and filled a 5 gallon jug full of ethanol free gas while I unboxed the generator. The generator looked brand new, and there were no concerns. I unscrewed the dipstick to put oil in the machine, and to my surprise, it was full of oil. I had no concern other than thinking that it was odd that the generator was shipped with oil. We poured gas in the tank and began to pull the cord. There was no sign of life whatsoever. We pulled 20 times... nothing... 50 times... nothing. I called Wise Sales at this point (in somewhat of a panic since we had no power), and they walked me through some basic troubleshooting. We drained the bowl of the carb to ensure that fuel was getting to the carb. I pulled the spark plug and checked for spark. I mentioned to Wise Sales that the machine was full of oil because I thought that was odd, and he said that was "impossible." There was fuel in the bowl, and there was spark, but it didn't seem like there was any fuel actually getting to the cylinder. We continued to check things and pull the cord for another hour or so with no signs of life when the power came back on. 
We spent the next day (Friday) catching up on things, so I called Honda Power Equipment Customer Relations on Monday (August 10), with my concern and thought that this was pretty cut and dry with the expected outcome of a new replacement EU2000i. Please keep in mind that it never ran a single second right out of the box. I was shocked when they shut down the idea of a replacement and told me to take it to a dealer for service. I pushed back and explained that I purchased a brand new unit and didn't expect it to be serviced, but they wouldn't budge. I caved in and took it to a dealer the next day (August 11). 
When I dropped the generator off at the dealer, the mechanic spent time on it right then and kept assuring me that it must be something simple and I could hang around and take it with me once he found it. A while later, he finally created a ticket for it and told me they would call when they finally figured it out. A week later, I stopped back by the dealer to check on things, and he told me that they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. I called Honda Power Equipment, and when they called the dealer they learned that the mechanic was no longer working there and they were looking for a new mechanic. The generator was then transferred to another dealer. 
Many, many phone calls were made between this time between myself and the local dealer along with Honda Power Equipment Customer Service. I could get no answers any time that I called. Yesterday (September 2), on my daily call to Honda Power Equipment Customer Service, I was told that the generator was ready for pickup. I thanked them for getting it taken care of, and I drove over an hour (round trip) to pick it up. When I got to the service center, the technician told me that the carburetor was so gummed up that they had to clean it 3 times in their ultrasonic cleaner. He kept saying that it was "really nasty" and told me that I needed to buy "better gas." I kept explaining to him that the generator had never been run by me and that it was brand new with ethanol-free gas added to it for the very first time on August 6th. I took the generator outside, sat it on my tailgate, and it fired right up on the first pull with just a tiny puff of blue smoke from the exhaust. I let it run for 4-5 minutes and all seemed well, so off we went.
I took the generator to my house to run it for several hours before parking it back at work to ensure that it wasn't my fault the next time we lost power and it didn't fire! I had some work to do on my kid's Honda CRF70, so I fired up the generator in the garage and let it run the shop lights. I let it run with no load for about 30 minutes first, and then started adding lights to it (500W lights). I noticed the whole time it was running with no load that it would hiccup about every 15 seconds, so I added some Seafoam to the tank hoping it would smooth things out. Keep in mind that this is the first day that I have ever run the generator since purchasing it brand new. I added a 500W light to the mix and the hiccup was still there. Over the next few hours I alternated the load from 1, 2, & 3 lights. Each time the generator held the load fine, but it just wasn't running perfectly like a new one should. I was hoping that the Seafoam would help, but with 5 hours on the hour meter by the end of the night, it didn't. 
I brought the generator back to the shop, and I had a friend bring his EU2000i over this morning to let it run and see if I was being too picky. The first thing that he noticed is that my eco-throttle mode was running way too high. The hour meter showed the unit running at 3900-4100 RPM on eco-throttle and 4300 RPM with it off. His generator locked on 3000 RPM and didn't waiver. His unit (5+ years old) also ran considerably smoother than my brand new generator.
So, today (September 3), I call Honda Power Equipment Customer Service and think that surely they can sympathize with me and exchange a new generator with me. I am shocked to say that they want me to take it back to the dealer again, and now they are theorizing that the machine was probably a returned unit to Wise Sales and that Wise Sales sold it to me unknowingly. This is based on the fact that the generator had oil in it when I got it and how gummed up the carb was on the machine. I'm shocked though that they say that there's nothing they can do and that I just have to continue taking it back to the dealer until we can get it right.
I'm an engineer that follows instructions to the T (it's a disease!), and it infuriates me to not know the history on a machine that I bought brand new. If it indeed was prepped by a dealer or returned and resold, I have no way of knowing if it was broken in properly, if the oil was changed after break-in, just how long it was run, etc. I also paid for a NEW generator, not a used one, but Honda Power Equipment Customer Service continues to tell me that it is a "repair only" warranty and not a replacement. I have finally escalated the case to a manager that at least empathizes with me, but continues to say, "I'm sorry, but we can't give you a replacement." Our current action plan is for Honda to lean on Wise Sales and ask them to provide a replacement because Honda literally said that it was "not their problem" to which I agreed... It is MY problem, but they can solve it and refuse to. I'm literally stuck with no option but to continue taking this in for service and hoping that the local dealer can get things running just good enough to satisfy requirements, and I'll still never know that abuse this generator went through during it's first hours of use. I'll never even know how many hours of use it went through. 
I'm shocked that a company like Honda hides behind a dealer and does not make this right. I'm also shocked that we can figure out that I'm the victim of a returned generator that was resold as new, and Honda doesn't immediately get a new generator to my door!


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## KRE

You have two options. Stay the present course, or take Honda an the retail sales company to small claims court. The later would be my course. Either someone at Honda or retail sales took it and used it (which is done more than found out by end owner's) or it was returned to one or the other and they(or both) tried to pass it off as new. Either way that is not you problem, and you have no way of determining which of the two it was so allow the court/s resolve the issue. Small claims courts are easy to use, and the clerk will walk you threw the paperwork. You file the claim and trust me one or both will settle right now. I've been down this road and have assisted many who where hosed by dishonest retail outlets and 3 mfg's. When you file a lawsuit against a corp they are required by the courts to have signed doc's from the corp that whoever is in front of the judge has to be corp approved, and an atty from that state. Way more costly than a 1K$ genset. Caution you best be able to prove everything, if you can, you can ask for punitive damages as well and, most of the time you will get them. I sued Sears over a lawnmower in the 80's. A $1,100.00 lawnmower cost them $4,600.00 when the judge put the hammer to the gavel, not counting their lawyer fee's. *Remember you have to prove it w/o a doubt! *


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## Tinkerer

Believe me, I have everything well documented for this. The present course will only end in me accepting a used generator as a new one, and that's not a positive outcome. The small claims court idea has been on my mind a lot lately, I just think that it would be a shame to take it that far because I wasn't getting the ear of the right people at Honda. It is extremely frustrating to keep talking to the same people that keep saying that they have no options but "repair only." That's simply not true if I can get to a person that has the authority to take care of me. 
I've always been taught that court is the place for people that don't know how to communicate, but I don't know what else to do here. My company continues to lose money each day that I spend talking to Honda and having nothing to show for it. I really hope this doesn't have to go to court, but I'm definitely willing to take it there if we can't get this resolved very soon. Punitive damages are at least 5x the cost of the generator if my employer takes into account all the time that I have spent trying to get this resolved so far!


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## KRE

Sounds like you have dealing with lower level folks, because all company's, have *Policy adjustment money in place*, every last one of them. You can move this up the line by sending a letter with *complete documentation* to Honda USA corp, attn BOD or CEO and it will change. Be sure to list the names address's an phone numbers of all involved. I doubt Honda Corp will allow this to go on once the right folks find out. Be sure to send it sig required. HTH Kenneth


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## RonJ

*Honda 2000i Problem*

Tinkerer, I don't know if you belong to the Honda 2000i Owners Group at Yahoo, but I follow it also. They have a fellow named Rob, who monitors this Forum, he is a Rep for Honda, has posted help for people and seems to be a straight shooter. You might post your info there, for you definitely have a problem. I have that generator, have had it for 13 years, and it runs like a top. I definitely agree with KRE, I would sue Honda in a nanno second, their reputation is on the line when their own repairman cannot keep them running and cannot offer why it was shipped with oil. I hope you get it resolved, and let us know what is going on. Ron


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## Waypoint

From a strictly legal perspective, the buyer's claim is against the company who sold him the generator. This is assuming it was advertised as a new item, and with him having received something other than a new item. 

Honda would not be party to such a claim, unless it can be proven that Honda was directly involved in the transaction. This is unlikely.

The complication here is that some period of time passed between the purchase and the realization that the product was not as advertised. Enough time for the carb to get gunked up as the Honda dealer claimed? Unknown. It sat on the shelf for approximately 5 months (March to August).

All that aside, civil litigation is a multi-year process and there's not enough $$ in play to attract an attorney to take it on contingency. Even with claimed damages. Just my opinion.

If it were me, I'd be doing two things:

1.) Contacting my credit card company (assuming it was bought w/ a CC) to see if I'm within their defective product claim period. If so, I'd start a claim with them. Nothing gets a seller's attention like funds being yanked.

2.) Making a complaint up the leadership chain with the reseller. I'm not seeing that the guy worked the Wise Sales Customer Service channel, looks like he switched over to Honda whose only remedy is warranty repair.

Not legal advice, just my opinion but I hope it helps get this fixed. Honda makes nice generators among other things, and I'm sure you'll be very happy when you get one that runs as designed.


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## KRE

Even if the fuel was E-85 that amount of time 3-14 to 8-15 would not do the described damage to such a late model unit, older unit yes. A lawyer is not required for the plaintiff in small claims court, nor is it by the defendant unless, the defendant is an LLC, Corp, Or Inc. Honda would be part of any action, as product service ultimately falls under their umbrella of responsibility. (Ford an GM found this out the hard way.)


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## Tinkerer

Waypoint said:


> I'm not seeing that the guy worked the Wise Sales Customer Service channel, looks like he switched over to Honda whose only remedy is warranty repair.


My first phone call was to Wise Sales, and they told me that it was "impossible" that the generator shipped with oil. When I explained that I was the person that unboxed it, and it indeed had oil in it, they immediately pointed the blame to Honda because they only distribute what Honda sends them. 
I've called Wise Sales at least 10 times since then, and everyone tells me that the owner (Ed) is the only person that would be able to help me, but he has no office hours, I cannot ever catch him there, and he refuses to call me back. 
Dealing with the dealer on a matter like this is like dealing with the child instead of the parent in my opinion. Honda Customer Service literally told me that this is not their problem, and as I mentioned in my original post, I agree... it is MY problem. It just says a lot about them that they have the ability to correct it within 24 hours, and Honda hides behind a dealer instead of putting the pressure on that dealer for someone to get a new generator to my door. 
This has gotten to the point that I wake up thinking about it and go to bed angry over a silly $1000 generator. It's just a running joke at work. If I opened up a $5000 Dell server and even smelled a problem, they would have a replacement to my door the next day and they would take ownership of the problem. This "passing the buck" from Honda and their dealers is completely unacceptable!


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## RonJ

*Honda 2000i Problem*

I keep reading this and and a thought comes to mind. Wise says they sell what they receive from Honda. Can Wise run the serial number of that generator against what they took from Honda, and then against the ones that they have taken back, if any, so that a authorized replacement was authorized. There is an answer out there, but I wonder if the phone or e-mail is the way...you really don't know who it really is on the line. You spent good money and should be able to expect a working product.


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## Tinkerer

RonJ said:


> I keep reading this and and a thought comes to mind. Wise says they sell what they receive from Honda. Can Wise run the serial number of that generator against what they took from Honda, and then against the ones that they have taken back, if any, so that a authorized replacement was authorized. There is an answer out there, but I wonder if the phone or e-mail is the way...you really don't know who it really is on the line. You spent good money and should be able to expect a working product.


I completely agree. I've spent... no kidding... at least 40 hours on this collectively. Wise has no interest in helping unless Honda intervenes and pushes on them. Between the many phone calls to Wise and Honda to the trips back and forth to the dealer, I've lost faith in everyone that I'm dealing with. I think the solution lies in getting to speak with the right person that can pick this up and run with it. Unfortunately, a $1000 generator has cost our small business a small fortune in lost productivity, and we still don't have a generator that works. 
I've gotten the name of one of the senior managers from another forum, and I've drafted a letter to mail him today. Unfortunately, I do not have an email address or phone number for him, so I'm resorting to a mailed letter. I'll continue to post updates here as they occur. I'm so disappointed in this whole ordeal. It makes me look incompetent and like a huge procrastinator to all of my co-workers for letting this drag out as long as it has, but I'm spinning my wheels!


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## thirteen

Check your state laws. In Maine everything essentially has a four year warranty under Maine law (a few exceptions). Both the dealer and manufacturer are equally responsible. My in laws Honda generator died, dealer said it was board and replaced for $900. I sent a demand letter. He refused. Sued in small claims court and it was an easy win. Judgment actually included a $1,5000 attorney fee, refund of costs of suit, and the $900 paid to fix it. Check to see what your consumer protection laws are in your state. Small claims court is easy as most states don't require the rules of evidence to be followed.


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## Waypoint

KRE said:


> Even if the fuel was E-85 that amount of time 3-14 to 8-15 would not do the described damage to such a late model unit, older unit yes. A lawyer is not required for the plaintiff in small claims court, nor is it by the defendant unless, the defendant is an LLC, Corp, Or Inc. Honda would be part of any action, as product service ultimately falls under their umbrella of responsibility. (Ford an GM found this out the hard way.)


I agree it's unlikely that the carb fouled up in that short timeframe...I've fixed a few neighbors' things that sat all Winter with E-10 and only got minor gunking.

While small claims court (they have different names in some states) may be an option, I'd bet that the seller's agreement stipulates that the contract is governed by the courts of the seller's state...whatever state that is. This would mean that the buyer would have to initiate any legal action in that state, common practice among companies that do business across state lines.


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## Waypoint

thirteen said:


> Small claims court is easy as most states don't require the rules of evidence to be followed.


Maybe not in the strictest sense, but burden of proof still lies with the Plaintiff and evidence creates that proof.

He'll have a tough time proving beyond reasonable doubt that the generator arrived with a full crankcase of oil. He can state in court that it arrived that way, and probably get away with it in a consumer-oriented court setting. 

The full crankcase is one way to prove that the generator was a used item...but maybe not the only way.

Personally, I'd still try the credit card route if the gen was paid for with one. Many credit card companies offer dispute resolution processes within a specified time frame. 

Failing that, another attempt at getting the gen fixed would be my next step. I realize dealers are scarce in the guy's area, but he'll stand a better chance of winning in small claims court if he can show that he worked in good faith to get it fixed in accordance with the manufacturer's warranty. 

Dropping it off with a written statement of the generator's defects (keep a copy for records!) and then testing it at the next pickup seals the deal. Bring electrical appliances, a hair dryer would be my choice, and test it out w/ the dealer guy observing. If it passes, you're done. If not, refuse to take delivery of it and call Honda Customer Support for assistance. 

Again...small claims court may be an option, but if the seller's agreement specifies that their home state is the governing body of the sales contract you'll have to find a way to initiate legal action there. Read the sales agreement while you're waiting for the gen to be fixed, so you can make informed decisions.


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## Jackruf

Do a search for a member by the screen name "Robert Coat" and PM him with the issue. He is the Honda rep who monitors this forum. I have found him to be very responsive with regard to technical issues. I am sure he can lead you in the right direction (ie satisfaction). This should not happen. Best of luck.


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## Jackruf

Actually it is "Robert Coats". Forgot the "s" at the end.


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## Tinkerer

I received a call from the assistant manager at Honda Customer Service on Friday. Keep in mind the latest plan was for them to provide a little pressure to Wise Sales to replace this unit for me. Honda Customer Service informed me that the relationship between Honda and Wise Sales is "troubled" currently, and they cannot get Wise to do anything. He said that the offer for a new carb was still on the table. I told him that the new carb was still unsatisfactory to me because it has already been to 2 different dealers, and I just feel that this is a lemon generator. I also think that if Honda is so confident that this is NOT a lemon, then they should be willing to take it back and give me what I paid for... a new machine. 
I'll follow your advice and PM Robert Coats. I was hoping to catch the ear of an individual the whole time that would have the authority to make this right. Hopefully he is that man!


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## Waypoint

You seem determined to do this the hard way, so I'll just wish you good luck.


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## javjacob

That is just one good reason I only buy from certified dealers. If they don't do certified service I don't buy from them. Guarantee its wise sales fault but they are refusing to own up and are trying to put it all on Honda. Honda knows this too and doesn't want to eat it when its not their fault. Take wise sales to small claims court and make them pay. Don't ever do business with wise sales ever again.


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## Waypoint

Just googled "wise sales complaints" and found this among others...over 400 feedback posts:

Wisesales.com Reviews - wisesales.com Ratings at ResellerRatings


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## Waypoint

And there's a hard-earned F rating from the BBB:

Wise Equipment & Rentals Inc Business Review in Schaumburg, IL - Chicago and Northern Illinois BBB


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## whimsey

It looks like Wise is also a store and RENTAL business. Maybe you got a unit that was originally used as a rental. From the serial # Honda should be able to tell you the manufacturing date and the date it was sold to Wise. Also, how many hours are on the hour meter minus you running it and some at the repair shop? Unless of course the hour meter was tampered with if possible.

Whimsey


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## EricaRonnie16

This is a usually experience difficulty with the EU1000i and EU2000i generators, which have very extremely little fuel cab. Its reason by gas appearance in the carburetor oil bowl from greeting the generator stored with increase in it involving exercise. 

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