# Power Whole House Standby Generator



## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I’m seriously considering getting a standby natural gas generator for my home. Is there a right or wrong choice in selecting a generator when it comes to Generac and Kohler? I’m going to get a bunch of quotes but have no idea as to which is best. Thanks!


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Groverson said:


> I’m seriously considering getting a standby natural gas generator for my home. Is there a right or wrong choice in selecting a generator when it comes to Generac and Kohler? I’m going to get a bunch of quotes but have no idea as to which is best. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


If you want a good generator to power a whole house, you should consider a liquid cooled 1800 rpm model. They are quieter, more efficient, and can run for longer periods than the higher rpm and air cooled models. If I were to get a whole house model, I'd get the Cummins RS25. They make larger units as well.










I was also thinking about getting a whole house system, but decided against it since we don't lose power often and we're planning on moving in the next few years. The quotes I got for an air cooled standard Generac backup system were about $11k installed. I've read hundreds of horror stories about these generators and my neighbor has one and it's loud. I decided to get a Honda EU7000is with a natural gas conversion kit. This was half the price and powers what I need. I can also take it with me when I move.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Thanks for your input. I really don’t know much about these generators. I guess the sizing part is important and will determine the price. I’ll have to make a list of what I need powered up. My central air unit, AC mini split system for a sunroom, 3 refrigerators, grinder waste pump, three large tv’s and DVD’s and a bunch of lights. Thanks again!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

also take a look at cat.
they make a real good state of the art system.
look at the run time costs per hour as well.
larger gens are more per hour to run.

take a real good inventory of the exact power you need as max power
then take that by 1/2 and add it in to the first number to leave you room.

or what is the main service panel breaker?
most are at least a 200 amp these days....
not saying you need that much... but it is nice to have the extra power available.
a 50 kw gen is a good place to be and a 200 amp transfer switch.

shop around a bit and look at features.
that is the best advice.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

I have a friend who has the Kohler setup. He really likes it. They've probably only used it for a few days total in the time they have been in their new home, about 6 or 7 years. It depends on how much you think you're going to use it. If you have frequent, long outages, then it makes sense to move up to a Cat. The hurricanes here in my area are so wildly unpredictable. We could have storms knock out power for a week a few times a year... or we may not have another storm that effects us this decade. The generator is peace of mind that you'll be comfortable in the event of a long-ish power outage.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

So with the 200 amp transfer switch is this placed on the outside of the house near the generator and connected to the main electrical meter line on the outside? Do wires have to run from the outside to my home to the circuit breakers in the garage? This would be about 75ft away.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


> Thanks for your input. I really don’t know much about these generators. I guess the sizing part is important and will determine the price. I’ll have to make a list of what I need powered up. My central air unit, AC mini split system for a sunroom, 3 refrigerators, grinder waste pump, three large tv’s and DVD’s and a bunch of lights. Thanks again!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I recently did a whole house test run with a 15kw unit - 15k starting/13.5k running. The biggest loads were a central AC unit, room AC unit, and 2x refrigerators. Other loads were several ceiling fans, lights, and other electronics. The AC units started with very little groaning from the generator - surprisingly little. 

If you are looking for a whole house unit my advice would be a few things:

1. Ensure that the wattage rating that you are looking at is legitimate wattage for Natural Gas. Of the 3 conventional fuels - gasoline, propane, and natural gas - natural gas is the least amount of power. I have seen some ratings on generators around a 20% wattage derate from gasoline. Hopefully the units you are looking at are rated in natural gas specifically as the fuel. 

2. You likely do not need as much wattage as you might think. Given the 15kw unit example - I am confident with that unit on gasoline we have a plethora of power here. That isn't to say our scenario here is like yours - but we're fine on 15kw with 2 AC's and 2 refrigerators going with a 200 amp grid feed home. 

3. If you can get a power meter and check your loads that would help. You could, in theory, add a meter to the feed for each branch circuit in the breaker box to see what kind of power your branch circuits use. Power up what you want to run on each circuit then you can get a total per branch circuit. That will let you factor in lights and other hard-wired loads (ceiling fans like we run here) directly to that total, as opposed to guessing it. Once you get a load total then set that at about 70% of the rated generator running wattage spec. So if you are at, say, 9360 watts then multiply that by 1.3 you get 12,168. That is close to the 13,500 running wattage of my unit, so the class generator that comes to is a 15kw starting load. Or, if your running wattage comes up to 12,000 watts - multiply that by 1.3 and you get 15,600. That is in the 18kw starting load generator class. 

4. With natural gas available it would be wise to go larger initially than you really think you need. Iowagold has a good point with the 50kw example. However, I think that might be an over-stretch. What you will get with higher wattage units is much lower duty cycle and the impact that large starting loads like the AC compressors have on the loading of everything will be reduced. That will help the lifespan of the unit. With natural gas piped in you don't have a limit to run time - so long as you do have the gas feed. Natural gas is also the cheapest fuel to burn. Between electricity and natural gas being converted via a generator to electricity - it is still expensive. Compared to propane at about $90/100lbs, though - it is much cheaper. So you might as well take advantage of that and go bigger. Who cares what the fuel burn rate is when your supply is unlimited? 

5. You would be wise to consider back-up fuel options. There are no guarantees that you will have natural gas 100% of the time. If the crap really hits the fan and the natural gas is shut off too - what fuel are you going to burn and how are you going to get power to your essentials? Don't entirely rely 100% on your whole-house natural gas generator, in other words. Yes they are very nice - until you can't run it. While you can run it - maximize it. 

I have considered Generac in the past. I am glad I never bought one. They have a bad track record - I'm sure others here will say the same thing. Cat has a good following from what I've heard around the forums. You may want to look in to Winco also. They are out of Minnesota. I have looked in to their generators quite heavily and had some back-and-forth with them and engineering a few years back. It took a bit to break that "communication channel" open, but I feel like I was able to get good information and they cared. I can't speak for others' experiences. 

One last suggestion - learn and understand what ever unit you get. I sincerely hope you aren't simply wanting to "open your wallet" and have everything magically done for you. If you are looking to invest in a backup generator then the thought is there that it is there if you need it - IE the grid is down, for what ever reason, and that generator is how you keep on keepin' on. What happens if the generator has issues while the crap has hit the fan? If you are expecting the service dude (use Generac here for example - they have service plans and a guy comes around once or twice a year to do maintenance and check up on your unit - it is part of their program I'm sure you'll learn about in your quoting process) to answer the phone and come out at 2am 3 days in to a major power outage because your unit has quit running - check your logic. You are going to be getting in line - behind everyone else in front of you that has some service request that they have to get to before they can get to you. That might be 2 days after the power comes back on. So what are you going to do yourself to get the unit up and running - should the need arise? Understand enough of the unit to be able to better diagnose and work on it than what the phone number is to call if you have problems. Yeak you might not want to get your hands greasy at 2am right out of bed.. but if things really go down all you really will have to rely on is yourself and what you can do in the predicament.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Groverson said:


> So with the 200 amp transfer switch is this placed on the outside of the house near the generator and connected to the main electrical meter line on the outside? Do wires have to run from the outside to my home to the circuit breakers in the garage? This would be about 75ft away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


so is the garage power feed connected to the house breaker panel?
or off the same meter as the house?
or on a separate meter?

if the garage panel is a sub panel off the house then yes the interlock at the house will cover the garage panel.

if the garage panel and the house panel are on the same meter on the house, just do a disconnect at the house meter before the power split with a proper rated breaker, and the transfer switch will have to match the total current.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

that also makes a good point on gen choice....
it all depends on your area...
some areas natural gas can be an issue due to some storms...
trees getting up rooted and the natural gas having to be shut down for over a week from the large gas leaks.
iowa went through that the last 2 years....
tornado's in central Iowa and the dechero 08/10/2021.

so a back up for the back up would be a good thing...
and small honda inverter gen at least 2200i to the 7000i gen....
i use the eu2200i gens for basic backup... and the eu7000is works for summer heat
or i can use up to 4 of the eu2200i gens on my system.
pm if you need details on that.

i use tri fuel on my gens here....
natural gas as primary, gasoline as secondary and then propane as the third choice....
natural gas is nice for most winter storms and summer storms when the ng is working ok.
i did have one outage back in 2011 when the NG was off in the winter due to a line issue at the same time as the ice storm.

plan your system. and always have a plan C!


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. Such great info. Here in middle Tennessee we haven’t lost power that much. The worst was about 10 hours. What makes me somewhat nervous is the that I have month’s supply of insulin in my refrigerator. It would be a comfort to know that it will be ok. From your responses I definitely want to go with whole home standby setup. I have watched a bunch of installation videos and it seems pretty straightforward and not being all that invasive into the home since all connections will be made on the exterior of the house. It looks like I have plenty of room left for the Gen. unit too……


























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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Keep in mind the generator needs to be at least 5 ft from any window or opening in the house.


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## Gunenthusiast (Dec 18, 2020)

Back to your original question, I would rate CAT the best, then Cummins or Kohler in the next tier, and Generac at the bottom. I went with a CAT and am very happy I did. 

Good Luck!


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


> What makes me somewhat nervous is the that I have month’s supply of insulin in my refrigerator. It would be a comfort to know that it will be ok. From your responses I definitely want to go with whole home standby setup.


Get a smaller inverter generator as a backup to your whole house unit. What are you going to run if the gas gets turned off? If all you have to rely on is the whole house unit that runs solely on natural gas you're hosed. With an inverter generator you will have a nice backup that will be very fuel efficient. That will run your refrigerator, lights, and fans in a pinch.

Size wise for inverters - the Honda EU2200's are extraordinarily popular. I have one - that is my main generator. I've run it about every other day the past week or so, for power out and about. If you are using it at home then maybe sizing up a bit would be better. The next jump on the Hondas is the EU3000. There are other companies. Powerhorse makes one that is closer to 4000w that has switchable 120v only or 120/240 split phase. The benefit here is you can drive all the wattage on 1x 120v circuit when in 120v mode. That is what nearly all small inverters do, though. The benefit with the Powerhorse unit I'm speaking of is if you feed the house you can use the split phase 120/240v outlet (L14-30) and feed both legs of your breaker box (even and odd breakers) normally. There is a way you can tie the legs together and run them from a single 120v source, but you won't have 240v across them (probably not a big deal as you likely aren't going to run any 240v loads - range/oven, AC, etc - the bigger loads in your home - when on a small generator). 

Something else to make the point of, and I wish I had thought of this early on - going forward I will - get an hour meter on your generators right from the get-go. It is important to break in engines properly and most portable/small generators don't have hour meters on them. The larger ones usually do - the engines are equipped with them. All the smaller Hondas, the cadillacs of inverter generators, do not. They are starting to add Bluetooth connectivity to some that share that data, but that isn't "mainstream" yet across their product lines. You can get cheap meters that will give you this info and they are pretty easy to install. When you get the hour meter set up before you break in the engine you can track that break in period exactly. I didn't think I used my inverter all THAT much after I got it, but looking at the maintenance schedule I found the 1st oil change should have been around the 20 hour mark - I was surely past it, but without an hour meter to track that I can't speak to any accuracy how much time the unit had when I did change the oil. That issue is eliminated with an hour meter - it shows you at a glance.

If you have water problems at your house that is something else to be keenly aware of as well. My dad's house is that way - he has 4 point redundancy in his sump pump set up (1 main sump pump, 1 secondary sump pump, 1 battery-backup sump pump, and 1 venturi pump that runs off the water line pressure - I've never seen anything like it before but considering we did have several flooded basement events in the house I grew up in I can understand why he went all out on that aspect when he built his new house). 

Another point to reinforce - understand how to service your generators. Even if you have a service plan and are set up for paid maintenance - if they can't get to you and things are down all you will have to rely on is yourself and what you can do. If your whole house unit takes a dump and you have an inverter generator then you can get the essentials going with the inverter, so maybe that is a decent plan for you. Though, it is always a good idea to understand how things work and what can go down.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Groverson said:


> Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. Such great info. Here in middle Tennessee we haven’t lost power that much. The worst was about 10 hours. What makes me somewhat nervous is the that I have month’s supply of insulin in my refrigerator. It would be a comfort to know that it will be ok. From your responses I definitely want to go with whole home standby setup. I have watched a bunch of installation videos and it seems pretty straightforward and not being all that invasive into the home since all connections will be made on the exterior of the house. It looks like I have plenty of room left for the Gen. unit too……
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As long As you are up the the task of wheeling out and hooking up a standard generator then a standby is a big project to keep a fridge full of insulin cold.

Otherwise, I favor kohler over Generac Personally.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Good point. I’m getting older and not up to rolling out a portable generator. I have too many medical issues. The whole home stand by is the way I’m gonna go. Thanks!!!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

they also make those little cool tron style electronic chiller coolers for truckers.
solid state and 12 volt dc.
and small....
perfect for meds that have to be cool.
and then use a battery setup that would run a day or two until it needs charged.
and there is solar and wind for small alt charge as well.

also look in to an rv fridge that works on LP.
some of those run for weeks on 60 lbs of LP in a travel trailer!

just a thought!


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Groverson said:


> Good point. I’m getting older and not up to rolling out a portable generator. I have too many medical issues. The whole home stand by is the way I’m gonna go. Thanks!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Whatever you choose, the most significant factor is service after the sale since you have some medical issues and I assume some physical limitations. The generator like any other important mechanical 'thing' will need routine service so chose a dealer that you can rely on for the long term. Early on when I was casually looking at Generac, lots of the 'dealers' were sales only. Install it, get paid and run away.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I see. So with a maintenance plan if the generator is not used for a few years does the oil and filter need changing if it’s only been used for startup tests? Also, anyone know what the lifespan of a generator is say with minimal usage? Thanks for the small refrigerator idea. This is all useful info!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Groverson said:


> I see. So with a maintenance plan if the generator is not used for a few years does the oil and filter need changing if it’s only been used for startup tests? Also, anyone know what the lifespan of a generator is say with minimal usage? Thanks for the small refrigerator idea. This is all useful info!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


most of the whole house gens with self test get tested to death...
lol!
now for those of us with single cyl manual systems.
just role over the unit to where they valves are closed and you are set.

well most gens rust in place... lol
maybe 20 years life out in the elements...
if you build a sun shade roof over it they last longer!

the real large units a generator shack works well!
I use a gen shack for the smaller units as well...

yea meds are one of the leading things for gen use. the second is for CPAP and BIPAP machines..
for there it is a food then comfort thing.
and security is in there some where as well.

lots of places have those little coolers...
truck stops some times have good deals on them!
or just head over to amazon. 
search solid state cooler.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Groverson said:


> I see. So with a maintenance plan if the generator is not used for a few years does the oil and filter need changing if it’s only been used for startup tests? Also, anyone know what the lifespan of a generator is say with minimal usage? Thanks for the small refrigerator idea. This is all useful info!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Ideally you'd still want to change the oil yearly at a minimum. I’m sure it’s part of the maintenance schedule. Maybe buy a small inverter generator as a backup just in case as well. A little 1000watt inverter gen is only 30 pounds and easy to move and start. Can never be too prepared.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

spare gens are always a good idea as well as spare parts!


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

iowagold said:


> spare gens are always a good idea as well as spare parts!


That's why I now have 2 EU7000is, 2 EU2200is and 2 EU1000IS. The little EU1000 is my favorite - it will easily run a large fridge and freezer.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I do have a 5000w LPG generator from my Florida days. It’s a heavy [email protected] on wheels but always fires up- electric key start. I think it would make a great backup. My wife mentioned that we have a small fridge in the back of the garage that she had for office use….


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

there ya go!
the student size or apartment size fridge!
some of those run on super low power as well.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JJ Ranch said:


> That's why I now have 2 EU7000is, 2 EU2200is and 2 EU1000IS. The little EU1000 is my favorite - it will easily run a large fridge and freezer.


Nice spread, same here, love that little eu1000.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Would you say this is a accurate description of a standby generators noise level? Not just Generac but Kohler and Cat too….

“Generac generators are engineered to be very quiet. They have an average rating of 66 decibels at three meters. It’s very similar to the sound of the A/C running.”


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

honda eu series is quiet....
the rest not so much unless you do something special on the exhaust..
and make sure they have a HEAVY mounting base....
that elf can be a bad thing on large gens...
resonance in the basement etc.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Groverson said:


> Would you say this is a accurate description of a standby generators noise level? Not just Generac but Kohler and Cat too….
> 
> “Generac generators are engineered to be very quiet. They have an average rating of 66 decibels at three meters. It’s very similar to the sound of the A/C running.”


Water cooled 1800rpm generac = pretty quiet.
Air cooled 3600rpm generac = not at all quiet.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I guess it’s a matter of how much I want to spend. I was making a list of “Must Have’s” for the whole house standby generator….

-Grinder Waste Pump
-3 full size Refrigerators
-Main Central Air Unit
-Mini Split AC Unit
-2 60’inch TV’s
-2 DVR’s + Modem and Router
- Living Room and Bedroom Lights
-1 Microwave 
-1 Desktop Computer

Running the gas dryer, washing machine, gas stove top and dishwasher is something we would never use during an outage. We have lived in our house here in Tennessee for ten years now and have never turned on the heat of our central unit. Only use the AC. For heat, we use the gas fireplace that heats the whole downstairs. The upstairs portion of the house is not used at all.


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## PatD (Sep 15, 2020)

Groverson said:


> I see. So with a maintenance plan if the generator is not used for a few years does the oil and filter need changing if it’s only been used for startup tests? Also, anyone know what the lifespan of a generator is say with minimal usage? Thanks for the small refrigerator idea. This is all useful info!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have a 3400 sq ft home in SE Louisiana. I went with the RS25 Cummins with a 500 gallon propane tank dedicated to the generator. It runs the whole house including 2- 4 ton A/C units, well pump, refrigerator, freezer and all the lights, computer, etc. My installer offered me a once a year maintenance plan or a twice a year plan. I went for the once a year plan for $325.00. They come out and change the oil and filter, air filter, check battery and radiator fluid and refill as necessary. I did buy my own oil and filter in case I had to do it myself. I also bought some antifreeze to keep the radiator topped off. No problems so far. I am very pleased. Also no big power outages yet. I do run the generator once a week for 15 minutes to keep everything in working order. About every 6 weeks I turn off the main power switch and have the generator power the whole house to check it out with load. By the way, Cummins RS25 uses a Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine, but it is modified for Propane by Cummins.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup a power inventory is a great idea!
i went the custom meter panel on my main panel route
and have indicators for when the grid power is back up.
and separate meters for the gen power. 
pm me for pix and parts lists!

make sure the box load is balanced as well.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


> Would you say this is a accurate description of a standby generators noise level? Not just Generac but Kohler and Cat too….
> 
> “Generac generators are engineered to be very quiet. They have an average rating of 66 decibels at three meters. It’s very similar to the sound of the A/C running.”


We have a neighbor right behind us that has a Generac whole house unit. We can tell when it runs, but it isn't obnoxious. I assume it is a 3600rpm on natural gas. It is definitely quieter than the portable "screamers". Compared to his lawnmower (small push mower) it is quieter than the lawnmower to us. 

Hope this helps some.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

My three year old EU7000is stopped producing power during our long outage, the engine ran fine. No breakers tripped but the overload light came on and flickered and then went dark. Local Honda dealer found no trouble - ran fine under load. Anyway....

A friend brought over a new open frame Predator 7kw from Harbor Freight for us to use. _The noise from it was absolutely horrible_ and mega-annoying. It was sort of like a rock in your shoe, the more you walk, the worse it gets. Thankfully the noise machine wouldn't start after two days, obvious things checked. That's when I bought the two EU1000is, one for the house fridge and one for the garage freezer. Guy that owned the Predator took it back to HF and bought a generator from a DIY store.

I'm finishing up my Aurora 13kw diesel installation - three cylinder Perkins engine. The engine at 1800 rpm has a pleasant low frequency sound. It's about 45 feet behind the house and it's very difficult to hear it running from inside the house.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Did you ever figure out what was wrong with the eu7000


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Did you ever figure out what was wrong with the eu7000


No - it's still a mystery. I recently used it to run the house when I was making a utility tie-in for my standby generator, it ran fine. I also ran it under load when I was changing oil. That's the reason why I bought a new EU7000is, I can never fully trust that generator.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

JJ Ranch said:


> No - it's still a mystery. I recently used it to run the house when I was making a utility tie-in for my standby generator, it ran fine. I also ran it under load when I was changing oil. That's the reason why I bought a new EU7000is, I can never fully trust that generator.


Probably a loose wire or connection that went intermittent on you. Maybe on the inverter module. I'd be tempted to open it up and check (unplug and re-plug) all connections you can find. Just disconnect the battery first.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Are permits required when the installer is working on the home main meter? I thought I read something about that and inspections too….


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Groverson said:


> Are permits required when the installer is working on the home main meter? I thought I read something about that and inspections too….
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't think so. The main meter is owned and managed by the utility.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Yeah I thought that because the meter is owned by the utility company that only they can work on it or modify anything related to it…


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## 12oreo (Jun 22, 2021)

PatD said:


> I have a 3400 sq ft home in SE Louisiana. I went with the RS25 Cummins with a 500 gallon propane tank dedicated to the generator. It runs the whole house including 2- 4 ton A/C units, well pump, refrigerator, freezer and all the lights, computer, etc. My installer offered me a once a year maintenance plan or a twice a year plan. I went for the once a year plan for $325.00. They come out and change the oil and filter, air filter, check battery and radiator fluid and refill as necessary. I did buy my own oil and filter in case I had to do it myself. I also bought some antifreeze to keep the radiator topped off. No problems so far. I am very pleased. Also no big power outages yet. I do run the generator once a week for 15 minutes to keep everything in working order. About every 6 weeks I turn off the main power switch and have the generator power the whole house to check it out with load. By the way, Cummins RS25 uses a Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine, but it is modified for Propane by Cummins.


How long will that 500 gallon tank last based on estimated usage? I just went thru the analysis, and it seems that fuel is the weak point, and I have no space for 500 gallons.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Groverson said:


> Are permits required when the installer is working on the home main meter? I thought I read something about that and inspections too….
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


as far as permits it all depends on what is being done.
some of the existing up grades and updates in some areas are not requiring city or county permits due to covid.
but they are requring inspection sheet or tag sign off before power restore.

now as far as cutting meter set tags you want to make sure the electric co guys are on site to do that these days!
that diversion fee / fine can run 500 to 10,000 bucks!

we always have the engineers on speed dial for when we are working on systems.
they can send a guy over at no charge to pull the meter or drop the house line so you can work on the system.
they then test for issues before they reconnect.

lol the guy i know when i did my own system here even helped on the hot work!
i had my gig bag and put on all the hot work safety gear.
it sure went fast with both of us working and bending the BIG FAT 0000 wires!
he loved the wire bending tools i had that were rated at 10 kv for doing hard bends in the meter box!

I had all the wiring done up to the updated disconnect by the meter.
so short less than 3 foot connections.

the electrical guys earn the bucks on the hot jobs for sure!
dangerous stuff...
lots of stress!!


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

The electrician I was consulting when planning on my standby generator install, we talked about pulling the meter and he wouldn't have a problem cutting the tag and pulling it and putting it back in place. We're served by a power co-op in a rural area so things are really laid back here. Also I'm in a county with very few building requirements - only a water well and septic need to be permitted.

For me there was no need to pull the meter since my auto transfer switch isn't service entrance rated.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Thanks that’s great info! So I checked my Trane AC unit label outside and it’s a 14 Seer 3 Ton unit. Curious if anyone knows what size standby generator could power just this Trane system along with three full size refrigerators? Trying to get an idea of sizing generators….


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I’m thinking 10kw+ range with a transfer panel that does load shedding plus a soft start on the AC. If the install includes a standard service transfer switch without shedding and no soft start a 18kw+ for safe headroom.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

The questions never end……Should I purchase my own generator and it’s components then look for a installer? Or contact a company that handles the whole buying and installation process. Curious as to what you all have done…..


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Most people I think get the whole package done from the installer. Where I am, you basically pay twice the cost of the generator for this type of turn key installation. Sometimes this price can include annual maintenance for a number of years. My neighbor paid $11k for a 22kw natural gas powered air cooled Generac system installed, including permits, with automatic transfer switch and 10 years of annual maintenance. The generator itself is likely less than $5k.

A Cummins RS25 fully installed would likely be twice that amount.

A 40kw CAT system would likely be twice the Cummins.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> Most people I think get the whole package done from the installer. Where I am, you basically pay twice the cost of the generator for this type of turn key installation. Sometimes this price can include annual maintenance for a number of years. My neighbor paid $11k for a 22kw natural gas powered air cooled Generac system installed, including permits, with automatic transfer switch and 10 years of annual maintenance. The generator itself is likely less than $5k.
> 
> A Cummins RS25 fully installed would likely be twice that amount.
> 
> A 40kw CAT system would likely be twice the Cummins.


If you want to hire your own contractor to install items you purchase, line up the contractor first, then buy the items they tell you they will need.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Buying the components yourself and hiring the installers separate can certainly save you money upfront. But no electrician or plumber will warranty parts or labor they didn’t sell you.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

right on DR!


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Another dumb question….so when a automatic transfer switch is being wired to the outside meter like in the attached pic….. can only the electric company electrician remove that little lock thing that hangs from the meter? Or can a hired electrician do it too to perform the wiring of the switch?










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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

As far as I am aware in my own area, only someone from the utility can do this. It may be possible that they can authorize an electrician in advance as well. There can be large fines if this is removed or tampered with.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Ok thanks. I want to make sure that whoever does the work that it’s legit….


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

make sure you have a disconnect between the electric meter and the transfer switch.
you need that for the new nec code.
and you will need it to pass inspection.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Anyone know anything about this company?









Whole House Generators | Generator Supercenter of Middle Tennessee | Generators Sales, Install and Maintenance


A whole house generator automatically delivers electricity during a power outage. Choose the #1 Generac Dealer in North America. Never get left in the dark again...




generatorsupercenterofnashville.com






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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

nope
always start at the BBB in the area they operate.
and see if they are listed as a premier service dealer.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I’m reading reviews and complaints of people that went through terrible generator installs at their home. Many of the complaints was that the customers put down a down payment and waited 4 months for the generator to come in and also ran into permit and electrical issues. I’m thinking it might be best to purchase my own equipment and get my own electricians. I looked on Amazon and can have a full home generator delivered on July 2nd-free shipping. I feel like that once you give a down payment then your forgotten.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

I bought my 13 Kw diesel generator from Aurora Generators in Ontario, Canada. I did my own install, not exactly my choice but the electrician I had lined up bailed out. My install was considerably more complex and difficult due the utility drop (and meter) about 35 feet from the house. Easiest install is the utility meter in on house wall and the transfer switch is adjacent. After doing my own install I think the simple install as mentioned would be really fast and easy.

We're on a ranch in a rural area and served by an electric co-op, the electrician I was consulting would have no problem cutting the tag and pulling the meter but that wasn't necessary since there's a 200 amp breaker just below the meter and I had room in the box for 2/0 cable in and out of the ATS. Here's a few pix of my install:


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Thanks JJ! It’s great to hear and see what other people have gone through to install their generator….


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Went with a Kohler 20kw generator. Currently I have 2-200 amp circuit breaker panels in my home that will be rewired where the generator will only power one 200 amp panel. I will make a list for the electrician of which home appliances and lights I want moved over to the one panel that will be powered by the Kohler. So not all circuits will be powered in the house- just the newly created 200 amp panel. 

They will pour a 4 inch slab for the generator and apply for the permit to remove the meter lock so they can install the transfer switch. 

The sales gentleman said that Kohler was a better unit than Generac. He said Generac has an incredibly long wait time to get a unit delivered. Well over 6 months! I also purchased a 10 year warranty that includes all parts and labor.

The project will start in 3 weeks and will take half a day to install. Only bad part is no power for about 5 hours… I will post pictures 


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

I think you made a good choice, Kohler was one of my top conventional contenders (as in not a diesel) for a standby generator. A 4" slab sounds like a bit of overkill but better than a gravel base.


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Groverson said:


> Went with a Kohler 20kw generator. Currently I have 2-200 amp circuit breaker panels in my home that will be rewired where the generator will only power one 200 amp panel. I will make a list for the electrician of which home appliances and lights I want moved over to the one panel that will be powered by the Kohler. So not all circuits will be powered in the house- just the newly created 200 amp panel.
> 
> They will pour a 4 inch slab for the generator and apply for the permit to remove the meter lock so they can install the transfer switch.
> 
> ...


What don't you feed everything into the power panel rather than moving separate circuits? Use the load shading auto switch panel from Kohler and that can handle / prioritize 4 X devices (2 HVAC + 2 more) so with 20Kw you will manage just fine the entire house. I was planning to do a similar instal but prices for installs here are through the roof. Best quote I got was $8.5 K on a 20Kw Kohler install  I passed and went the portable generator route.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

$7500 for a 20kw installed is a pretty price.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

My install complete with the full 10 year warranty is $16,500. 


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

Groverson said:


> My install complete with the full 10 year warranty is $16,500.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


INSANE. Just the Kohler and auto panel is 4-5K top. You're paying $11,500 just install fee. Absolutely INSANE mate


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> $7500 for a 20kw installed is a pretty price.


That's just the install, not the hardware included.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I could see that on some install sites...
it all depends on what had to be moved or changed out.

and the parts shortages are a real thing!
I ran in to that 4 times today.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

In my area in middle tennnesee the average price for a turn-key install ranges from 13000 to 20000


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

JohnWhicker said:


> That's just the install, not the hardware included.


Oh, ok. 12k is about the average depending on your location


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## JohnWhicker (Feb 21, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Oh, ok. 12k is about the average depending on your location


So I got quoted a $7500 install job for a 20Kw standby generator. The gas meter is like 4 foot from the concrete slab and the power panel is 5 foot from the same location. And now being genersous, I say 20 hours max on an electrician, 5 hours on NG line and 5 hours on permits. Is a 1-2 day job, give or take. That's like $250 an hour.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Interesting. They told me that one week prior to the install they would pour the slab- 2hours.
Then the day of the generator install they would re-wire my 200 amp breaker panels, drop the generator on the slab, tie into the gas meter with the proper size pipe and check for proper gas volume, install the the transfer switch on the outside and connect everything, perform a test and then walk me through the controls. He said we will get this all done in 5 hours. I’m thinking they have a big team that day to do all of this in five hours? I guess…..


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup lots of folks involved on an install.
and all of the paperwork be hind the scene ....
and yes on the 250 per hour!
with insurance and all the stuff with heavy equipment involved.
it can run real bucks per hour
think trencher, telehandler etc.
most of that stuff is 200-300 per day!
then skilled operators for that gear at 120 per hour.

it is worth it if they are in and out and done right!
hard to break down a 10 man crew per hour.
and travel time as well.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

My 13 Kw diesel generator from Aurora Generator in Ontario, Canada with a 100 gallon double wall tank on the base and a 200 amp auto transfer switch was around $18K including freight. I probably have about $3K in electrical stuff, wire, lots of pvc conduit, pipe/strut to hang the boxes, etc. I have a lot of surplus conduit and fittings which I'll keep. My slab is 5' by 8', I think I paid $1800 or so for that.

Working by myself took a long time but I don't move as fast as a youngster. Guessing I have 40+ labor hours but again my install is more complex than the usual residential install.

I'm right in the middle of the last bit of the generator project - installing the remote controller in the house. I have the special Modbus cable (and Ethernet cable for future use) pulled and I'll complete the wiring in a day or two.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

My installer offered the CAT5 cable hookup to my modem/router but I declined. He said Kohler is coming out with a WiFi setup but not sure when….


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

always pull any cat 7 in a separated trench.
and yes cat 7 or cat 8!
you want the shielding.
or run a separated metal conduit just for the cat cable.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Cat 5e will reliability run 1 Gb bandwidth would handle virtually any home or office requirement even with cams and heavy file sharing. All of the >Cat 5e connectivity is for data centers or network providers. Having said that the market is moving on to bigger, better and more expensive even for consumers. 

I always use shielded LAN cable for any exterior application.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Dup post.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

better noise rejection on the cat 7 and 8.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

iowagold said:


> better noise rejection on the cat 7 and 8.


Possibly, I've never researched cat 7/8 cable. My network equipment can report LAN signal to noise ratio (SNR) and as I recall it's always nominal even with the unshielded interior cable. I have a very busy network with 14 high def network security cams recording and there's a bunch of video and audio streaming going on so I'm happy with my network performance.

Having said that, I use Ubiquiti's shielded LAN cable and their special metal RJ45 plugs - I was going to buy another box of Cat 5e and surprise - no more available. So I suppose I'll go kicking and screaming to Cat 6 but they use different plugs so that's another added expense.


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## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)

PatD said:


> I have a 3400 sq ft home in SE Louisiana. ..,Cummins RS25 uses a Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine, but it is modified for Propane by Cummins.


Just for comparison, one of our 4800 sq ft houses uses 48,000 BTU rated SEER 26 Mitsubishi heatpumps. When pool pump, 3 refrigerators -and- water heater (switched into 120volt mode @1,125watts), laptops, printer, router, modem, lights (ie. everything is ON) -- we use just under 3kw power (closer to 2,850 watts but never exceeds 3,000watts. This is on a 92-95F degree day. All systems are 240volt inverters, compressors, motors, pump.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

JJ Ranch said:


> Possibly, I've never researched cat 7/8 cable. My network equipment can report LAN signal to noise ratio (SNR) and as I recall it's always nominal even with the unshielded interior cable. I have a very busy network with 14 high def network security cams recording and there's a bunch of video and audio streaming going on so I'm happy with my network performance.
> 
> Having said that, I use Ubiquiti's shielded LAN cable and their special metal RJ45 plugs - I was going to buy another box of Cat 5e and surprise - no more available. So I suppose I'll go kicking and screaming to Cat 6 but they use different plugs so that's another added expense.


we made the jump in to fiber
lol on the cat 6!
yea we use cat 7 and 8
and yes you can put on the cat 5 connectors....
it just does not have the drain for the shield.
but you can add on a wire at the one end to fasten to earth ground!
normally we just connect the drain at one end to stop G loop issues.

the led and other lights and dimmers issues on cams is one thing the 7 and 8 does real well on.
something with the new noise canceling twist and shields inside.
total game changer in a noisy environment like a lab with high power signal generators!
or around ham radio gear!

the stuff is still high priced....
but worth it!


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

You are right about LED lights, dimmers, etc being noisy. Blame the crappy Chinese junk that isn't adequately filtered and most likely fails the FCC's RF emission standards.

Ubiquiti's RJ45 connectors are designed to work with their "Tough Cable", I tried to use one on another brand of gel filled shielded outdoor cable and unfortunately it wouldn't fit. I do though connect the drain on both ends. I ran shielded pair and a half cable for my indoor generator remote controller for Modbus (RS485) and DynaGen specifies only connecting the ground on one end I suppose to avoid ground loops.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

When I rewired my house with RG6 I ran cat6 with it. WiFi is super fast and has excellent range these days but I felt its best to reduce the amount of RF traffic in the house. So everything that can get hard wired does. In terms of speed cat7 is overkill for residential purposes. It’s my understanding that cat7 is only really needed where gigabit speeds are needed for runs over 300ft


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Another vote for wired vs. WiFi - it's significantly more reliable and much easier to administer and manage. Curiosity got the best of me so I looked up Cat 7 - most interesting and most unpopular. Speeds up to 10 Ghz but limited to 100 meters like the usual Ethernet cable. And - it uses a unique connector.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

When I showed the generator sales guy my two 200 amp panels he said to make a list of all the circuits you want to be on generator power. Then the electrician will wire one of the 200 amp panels with these selected circuits and everything else will go on the non-generator panel. Is there anything I should be concerned with regarding this path?…..


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

2 200amp panels... One of the panels should be the main and the other a sub. Usually any sub panel is rated at 80% or less then the main panel. For example a 200amp main and a 150amp sub.

Is there something unusual about your electrical service?


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Well not knowing much about this stuff I don’t know if it’s a sub panel. All I see are two same size panels side by side ……see pics


















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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Neither are main breaker panels so there should be a disconnect within eyesight. Either way both panels are loaded and you clearly have significant energy requirements. I suppose the elevtricians suggestion to feed a single panel with selective circuits makes sense though Im not looking at the whole picture. What size generator are you planning on?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Groverson said:


> Well not knowing much about this stuff I don’t know if it’s a sub panel. All I see are two same size panels side by side ……see pics
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


snap a pix of the meter location is there a disconnect breaker at the meter?
yea their should be a main breaker ahead of these sub boxes.
and it might have a 400 amp breaker or more on it. 
or 2 of the 200 amp breakers?
it all depends on the feed line size to the panels etc.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Here’s the pic of the outside meter and the two panels side by side inside the garage. The inside the house right side panel has larger black wires going into it. The outside larger panel next to the meter are the breakers for the three AC systems. The generator guy did mention that I don’t have a whole house shut off outside. He said he will install one which meets code. See pics….


















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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

It looks like the darker gray panel on the right was added later - I wonder why.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Yes, the previous owner had a major renovation in 2005. So are both of those panels sub panels? Trying to understand the terminology…thanks!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Well that’s appears improper. At a glance without removing the covers, I would assume the outside panel next to the meter must have or at least should have main breakers for the interior panels. The interior panel should also have main breakers because they are not in the same room within eye sight of a main breaker.Id say both interior panels are sub panels. 

What state are you in? Either way, it needs correcting.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

The Gen guy looked at that panel next to the meter and indicated it’s only breakers for my 3 ton AC , smaller upstairs AC, a mini split AC and a grinder waste pump. He mentioned that there is no main breaker outside and that needs to be fixed. In 1985 when the house was built it wasn’t required here in middle Tennessee but now it is.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Groverson said:


> The Gen guy looked at that panel next to the meter and indicated it’s only breakers for my 3 ton AC , smaller upstairs AC, a mini split AC and a grinder waste pump. He mentioned that there is no main breaker outside and that needs to be fixed. In 1985 when the house was built it wasn’t required here in middle Tennessee but now it is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Gotcha, well your install will be a bit more costly just to remedy some of the deficiencies. It’s wild how much code can vary state to state back in the day.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea update for sure!
i would convert the outside box to the main breaker and disconnect and interlock at that point for a gen.
or if you are using a whole house generator then use a special power shed system for "voting" on the power as required.
on those systems you can select priority power like to sump pumps and well pumps...
as well as heating for winter time.
it all depends on your budget and how hands free you want the gen system!

yea i vote for a system update for sure to get it up to 2020 nec code.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Kinda off topic but I was going through my circuits for when my Kohler 20kw arrives. I noticed this AC adapter box that my cable tv plugs into. When the power is cut to this box the cable tv freezes up on all my TV’s. Anyone know what this actually does?…see pic.










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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Never seen that for cable tv service. I had somerging similar for my DirectTV though. I think had something to do with energizing the cable so that it worked like Ethernet and created a kind of intranet between boxes.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

power feeder for amps or for the box.
yea put a ups on that power feed as well as the cable boxes!
pm if you need links to good ups units


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


>


Can you open up the big gray box on the right and get a picture? 

From what you stated earlier about the codes in TN not requiring a service disconnect - yea if that was the case way back when that needs correcting. 

What I am not a fan of is that service disconnect being outside and hard to get to. It would be a lot more convenient to have the service disconnect right at the breaker panels. 



Groverson said:


> Here’s the pic of the outside meter and the two panels side by side inside the garage. The inside the house right side panel has larger black wires going into it. The outside larger panel next to the meter are the breakers for the three AC systems. The generator guy did mention that I don’t have a whole house shut off outside. He said he will install one which meets code. See pics….


If I were to guess - the large sets of cables entering the tops of the boxes - the right one is a black sheathed cable and the left one is a gray sheathed cable (hidden more in amongst all the other cables) - will terminate inside the box to the right of the meter. 

I would be very curious how those feeds are connected inside that box!

For what it is worth, the box on the right (darker gray) has a knock-out on top for a service disconnect. If you look at the door the sticker label, on top of the areas where you mark what the circuits are, is a specification area. That will tell you want type/size panel that is. 

I am assuming both panels are fed off the box on the outside. That means 2 sets of cables. That is why I am curious how they terminate in there - it doesn't make any sense. What you need is a service disconnect breaker rated to your electrical service. If you have 200 amp service, for example, then you should have a 200 amp breaker. 

The question is how do you feed 2 panels with 1x 200 amp breaker? 

What ever the solution - it would make a lot of sense to have a disconnect for each breaker box at that box, not outside the house.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

iowagold said:


> power feeder for amps or for the box.
> yea put a ups on that power feed as well as the cable boxes!
> pm if you need links to good ups units


Thanks. I see now that this provides current to this mess of splitters down in the garage. I would like to clean this up but don’t know how….










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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

far right hand gray unit is an amp.
that is what the power is feeding to!
snap a pix of the labels of each of those... i can find better units.
yea a line driver amp is a great idea...
but they need power to run..
i would use a ups on that transformer... and get one that is a 1500... it will have a longer run time if that is the only thing on it.
we get closer to 2 hours run time on the 1500 apc ups for the phone and modem.

now days they have the units that will accept external battery towers so you can stack the battery packs or use a larger battery array!
it is an investment.... but they do last a long time!
we get 10 years on the batteries... and the ups units are 20-30 years unless they take a direct lightning hit.
but you have to clean them every year from dust etc. or keep them in an ultra filtered air clean room!


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

FlyFisher said:


> Can you open up the big gray box on the right and get a picture?
> 
> From what you stated earlier about the codes in TN not requiring a service disconnect - yea if that was the case way back when that needs correcting.
> 
> ...


So since only one of my two panels inside the garage will be the generator panel that will go live when the power goes out, how do they feed this one panel from the outside? Do they have to run lines from the outside to inside the garage? Here’s a pic of the outside panel that sits next to the meter….











The two panels inside the garage….










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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Can you pull the cover off that outside panel?


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Ok it’s raining now. This electrical stuff is scary to me….


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


> So since only one of my two panels inside the garage will be the generator panel that will go live when the power goes out, how do they feed this one panel from the outside? Do they have to run lines from the outside to inside the garage? Here’s a pic of the outside panel that sits next to the meter….





JJ Ranch said:


> Can you pull the cover off that outside panel?





Groverson said:


> Ok it’s raining now. This electrical stuff is scary to me….


As JJ Ranch said - you need to open the panels. 

Specifically - the box outside. That is - unscrew all the screws around the box to pull the face off the box. The breakers are mounted in the box - they will not "fall loose" when you open the front panel like that. 

There is nothing that is going to "bite you" when you open the panel like that. What you DON'T want to do is go sticking a screw driver around in there poking and proding if you don't know what you're doing. 

Opening the panel is like laying a loaded gun on the table. A gun isn't going to shoot something by itself. Its all in the operator. If you don't operate; it doesn't operate. Just looking at it won't hurt a thing. All you're doing is getting things open to where you CAN look.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

I did it! I did it! Lol….let me know what you want you think? Is this what powers my two panels inside the garage?


















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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Groverson said:


> I did it! I did it! Lol….let me know what you want you think? Is this what powers my two panels inside the garage?


Is your hair poofed out and smoke rolling out your ears?

Just joking.

See labeled pic below:









The yellow feed is definitely to one of your panels. That appears to go from the 100a breaker to the rear port in the box, through the wall.

The blue feed is not labeled on the front panel. It appears to be an 80-90a breaker. Can you figure up what that goes to?

See if you can see the sheath down in the conduit connection circled in blue and see what the cable looks like - gray sheath or black sheath - and compare that to the cable entering one of the panels inside.

Red is your service entrance.

If I were to guess the blue breaker is what feeds the older panel and the yellow breaker feeds the newer panel.

What that also says is that those breakers, if that assumption is correct, are the "disconnects" for those whole sub-panels.

If you are wanting to feed only one of those panels with your generator then the "service disconnect" for the 1 panel would be which ever breaker feeds it. Then you could use a breaker on the sub panel itself as your interlock breaker for feeding that specific panel from your generator. However, that would require running a sufficient size cable to that box to carry the power that your generator is rated to. The box being inside would be a bit harder to run a cable to than the box outside.

Another way would be an external transfer switch with the sole circuit it switches being the feed for that 1 panel. That would be a BIG transfer switch (capable of around 100 amps) - you need the transfer switch panel rated for the service feed to the panel, which is higher than what your generator is going to output. That would be an expensive upgrade just for switching "1 circuit" between utility/generator.

If the circuits that are going to be powered on backup/gen power are all solely on the 1 sub-panel it makes the most sense to me to back-feed it with an interlock set up - IE - run power back through another breaker on the panel. That would require, again, running another cable to the box rated to what the generator is capable of providing.

If you have a smaller generator now it might be worth-while to set it up for 50-75 amps so if you get a larger generator later you have a circuit there to handle it. The breakers are a cake walk to swap, but installing cable through walls can take a lot of work. Sizing up the cable and the bit of extra expense to do it is small potatoes compared to the installation cost and pulling out that cable then reinstalling a bigger cable later. Something to think about.


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## Groverson (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow. You are so **** knowledgeable with this stuff. It’s very interesting and it confuses me a bunch too but I kind of wanted to be a little familiar with this before they start the project late next week. I’m going to take pics as they proceed and share them with you all. Your expertise and time is so appreciated….Thanks!!


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