# Generator recommendations



## Tommybo (Dec 28, 2021)

Hi all. So new and so not a handyman.
I was researching backup generator for my 2000 sq. Ft. House. I don’t need everything in the home but would like the basics. 
Minimal must: sump, well pump, gas tankless water heater, central gas heater (can live without AC), 2 33 inch fridge/freezers and maybe a few lights and something to charge my model y (can scale back to 110)

additional like to power: electric range, routers x 4, a led tv , and a microwave with some more lights. 

Which of the three do you recommend ?

1. Whole home

2. inverter portable like eu7000 Honda or 9500

3. high power portable

my thought now is to go inverter as it can be paralleled to add power to scale.

what do you all think?


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

First thought - 

Figure up how much the starting loads are of the sump pump and well pump. Those are your 2 heaviest loads. 

Unless you can control when each is powered (manual shut offs) - then you will want a generator that can handle the start up loads of both simultaneously along with some basic loads in the house. If you have big pumps this could be a real problem = need a very large generator to do it. Then add on what the refrigerators kicking on will draw. 

Unless you can segregate loads to keep high starting load devices from starting at the same time, you will need a very big generator. If you can segregate loads - then the heaviest starting load of any device you will run plus some basic power needs (lights, fans, refrigerator, what have you) will be the ruling power demand.

Once you know the ruling power demand of what you WANT then start looking at generator options that can supply that. 

As you are going along you will need to know what your fuel usage is going to be and how much fuel you can store or can get. My recommendation is that you have to base this all off of what fuel you HAVE on hand. That is because in a disaster situation you may not be able to GET fuel. If you have natural gas piped in (it sounds like you do, that or you have a large propane tank to run your heat and water heater) then you are, for the most part, ahead of the game - until the gas supply is impacted. It is very possible to have your gas shut off in a disaster. We had that happen in a part of town here a bit over a year ago. There was a major gas leak so the whole branch of the gas line was cut off to the whole neighborhood while repairs could be made. That was not a storm related issue. In a storm related outage you could be out of gas for days to weeks, depending on the scale of the storm damage.

It is in that scenario where you can not rely on piped in natural gas - and it is in those scenarios where you need to rely on tanked in fuel, whether that is gasoline, propane, or diesel.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Tommybo said:


> additional like to power: electric range


Second thought - forget the electric range. Convert it to gas or have a gas option. 

We have natural gas here and have a grill outside that runs on it. I also have a portable propane grill/range combo that runs on propane. So when it comes to cooking - even if the natural gas goes out we have plenty of cooking options. The range/oven inside is natural gas and so is the heat here, so as long as natural gas is here we have a lot of bases covered - including the primary fuel for generators. If the natural gas goes out then we have propane and gasoline options for generators, preferably gasoline but propane is possible (just not as much of it - have more volume in gas tanks/cans than I do propane tanks). 

As far as forgetting the electric range - using generator power for heating, of any kind, is incredibly inefficient. Do you really want to increase your generator size and fuel consumption, depleting what could be a critical supply of tanked fuel, just for the convenience of cooking inside on your electric range??? The fuel you burn to do that might mean several more days' fuel supply to a smaller generator. Think about it.


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## Tommybo (Dec 28, 2021)

Good points. I have a big green egg just on my deck as well as a two burner propane range top for camping. Either will do for this scenario. 

I will check my startup power.

Thanks.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

there is also voting ckts you can add on as a load shed device...
that way the sump pump has priority 1
and maybe keep a couple of light ckts as priority 1
also look in to ups units for the wifi items and computer gear and tv's.
that way you have a bit of time to switch over.
i also use auto emergency lights in the generator area and breaker panel area so i have some sort of fast lights to move around safe during the gen connection.

make sure the power up for the system is fast and easy.
make and laminate clear step by step instructions as well.
color code and numbers work well on the steps.

think on tri fuel for the gen set...
if you have NG (natural gas) that makes a nice primary fuel.
but make sure you have a backup fuel like LP (propane)
and or gasoline....
never box your self in to just one fuel source...
choices are part of a great plan!

we all are still learning with each outage we go through...
here in Iowa the dechero aug 10 2020 we learned plenty....
some plans worked better than expected!
some learned the hard way that one fuel source is not a great plan...

plan for at least 4 weeks no power.
and food and water for that time as well...
that would give the state and national guard time to get something started.

stay safe out there!


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

My canned recommendation: Buy an electric monitor device, like Sense or similar. Takes the guesswork out.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Check out this thread:








Got a second EU7000, more work to be done.


Hey, so I pulled the trigger on a second EU7000. Both units fit nicely in the enclosure I built last year. I have 6 gauge cable running from my inlet box. But need to update other parts of the system. I want to feel out some options and get some opinions. 1. Inlet box.… Got to install a 50amp...




www.powerequipmentforum.com





Although I only have a single EU7000is which meets most of my needs (can't run the 4 ton HVAC unit), this would be my dream setup. The reason I like it is that the Honda is an incredibly efficient, reliable and quiet machine which can be converted to tri fuel very easily. Two of these in parellel would be able to meet most larger power demands, while a single unit can run a house most of the time if large appliances aren't being used. Shutting one down when it won't be needed conserves fuel. Having a second unit adds redundancy in case one requires maintenance. Having multiple fuel options adds versatility. Being portable, you can take them with you when you move. Resale value for these generators is also exceptional.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

With a gas-electric house you are far better off than those with all electric. I have gas-electric house and have been getting by with a 3KW genset (not running A/C). I have to load manage (change connected loads around as needed) in order to get by with that small of a unit, but it is not a big deal since we rarely have power issues.
If I was buying a new gen, I would look into inverter units (maybe in the 5KW range) because they are more fuel efficient and usually provide cleaner power. Honda gens are probably one of the best in the portable category. Convert to tri-fuel or buy them already set up for your NG.
You can switch loads around with fairly inexpensive transfer switches (even DIY setups), or just move extension cords as needed.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

GenKnot said:


> I have gas-electric house and have been getting by with a 3KW genset (not running A/C). I have to load manage (change connected loads around as needed) in order to get by with that small of a unit, but it is not a big deal since we rarely have power issues.


Its a wonderful thing, isn't it?

I've been using my little EU2200i. We very rarely have the power go out here, but same thing here - the little gen has a surprising amount of power to keep things going. I suppose the other end of the spectrum is also true - it is surprising how little power you can get by on. 

What we can't run on the small generators is a microwave oven unless it is the only load.

At some point I'd like to upgrade to a 4-5kw inverter. That size would have all the bases covered here with the addition of the microwave, and not be max'ed out. The microwave would raise the load demand on it quite a bit, though. Average power usage would be well under - maybe 25%. And with that size/type generator - it would still be very fuel efficient. 

I know a lot of people like the EU7000's. They are nice units, but they are expensive. 

With 2x paralleled EU7000's you can get 14kw peak/11kw running. I would venture to say that will run central AC in most homes with some essentials running also. 

We can run our central AC on a 15kw rotary generator - and the generator barely notices the AC starting up. Being an Inverter style gen, I am not sure how the pair of EU7000's would react to that high of a start up load. There are soft-start units you can get for AC's. Ours does not have a soft-start.

The downside with running big generators is the fuel consumption. That is where the pair of EU7000's would have a big leg up on the competition. However, if you can get by on a 3kw gen without the AC but you need a 14kw with the AC - you have 11kw of gen capacity that you are spinning just to have "at the ready" for the AC to kick on - that is lost fuel for that period of time, even with the pair of EU7000's. Reason being - there is a lower wattage limit to generators. That is - how much electrical power can you draw from a generator before the fuel consumption starts going up = when the generator is at idle? If you can get 5kw, lets say, out of the pair of EU7000's at idle before the throttle lets more fuel in but you are only drawing 2kw - that is 3kw worth of fuel that is just going "poof" out the exhaust. Yeah, inverter generators are going to be better about this than a 3600rpm rotary that has to spin at a constant 3600rpm, but the principal is still the same - if a 3kw is adequate but you need 14kw "there" for one intermittent load - you are burning fuel that you aren't using just to have the generator "there" for "when" the heavy load hits.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

I'm in the same boat with my EU2200i. It's sufficient for most of my emergency needs as long as those needs don't include any electrical heat (toaster, microwave, coffee pot). My house rests at under 1000 watts without A/C. I wish they made a 4000W non-open frame 120/240 inverter generator, but they don't. When you get to the 6000-7000 range they exist, but that's a lot of money on fuel to idle.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Robh said:


> I wish they made a 4000W non-open frame 120/240 inverter generator, but they don't.


Closest I've found:


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200788693_200788693




Open Frame inverter
4500w peak/3700w continuous
Selectable to 120v only or 120/240v
Recoil start only, not electric start


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Tommybo said:


> Hi all. So new and so not a handyman.
> I was researching backup generator for my 2000 sq. Ft. House. I don’t need everything in the home but would like the basics.
> Minimal must: sump, well pump, gas tankless water heater, central gas heater (can live without AC), 2 33 inch fridge/freezers and maybe a few lights and something to charge my model y (can scale back to 110)
> 
> ...


I say go for the eu7000. You won’t be disappointed. Your biggest loads are already gas. It will easily handle fridges sump pumps and a well pump. You can always convert the eu7000 to natural gas down the road As well.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

FlyFisher said:


> Closest I've found:
> 
> 
> https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200788693_200788693
> ...


I'm in suburbia so quiet is the most important. I'd want a generator under 60dB. My closest one I've found is the AIMS 6600W option. It's been on my shopping list for over a year but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I just don't have many power outages.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Robh said:


> I'm in suburbia so quiet is the most important. I'd want a generator under 60dB. My closest one I've found is the AIMS 6600W option. It's been on my shopping list for over a year but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I just don't have many power outages.


What do you need 240v for?

If you "need 240v" so you have 2x 120v legs to feed your split phase breaker box - have you considered turning off your 240v breakers and loading both legs of the breaker box from the same 120v source?

This is what we do on 120v with the smaller gens. The tie to the 2x legs is at the generator end of the cord - the 1x 120v hot leg goes to both L1 and L2.

Your 120v circuits don't care. All the split phase breaker box does is put each split 180 degrees out of phase so you have 240v across both, or 120v on one. If you don't need 240v (and I do not know of any 240v home appliance of any kind that will run off a low-wattage 240v gen) then none of your 120v loads will care how the AC is phased. There is no connection between the legs, so they know no difference that the opposite leg is in phase and not 180deg out of phase.

The important thing is to keep your 240v device/circuit breakers off.

On edit - a benefit to this is that "load balancing" is already there. You don't have to worry about "load balancing" like you do with a split phase generator. 

My small rotary is ~2600 watts and has a voltage selector switch. There is no point in ever running it in 240v mode so if I run it in 120v-only I get more available power and the halves of the alternator are already balanced - as they are paralleled so as to provide power over 1 120v circuit. Works great!


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

I replied to the other thread, but this is exactly what I do with my EU2200i. I combine both hots to power both sides of the panel, even though I turn off the 240V circuits. However, I have a few multiwire branch circuits. Right now it doesn't overload anything with a little 2000W generator, but if I creeped up to 3000W or 4000W 120V gen, it would be risky. I'd have to shutdown any circuit that had one.  I guess they did that a lot in 1960's houses.

If I bought a 120/240V generator, this problem goes away.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

also look in to the panasonic inverter microwave.
you can use the lower power setting that works well when you are on a smaller gen set.
that is what they use in most RV setups.
they do cost more up front but they work real good!


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> also look in to the panasonic inverter microwave.
> you can use the lower power setting that works well when you are on a smaller gen set.
> that is what they use in most RV setups.
> they do cost more up front but they work real good!


Last time I ran a microwave on a generator I used the rotary 2600w unit. That was before I had the connection to the wiring so we used extension cords.

The microwaves we have don't have an adjustable "power level". What they do is they have 1 power level, then depending on how much you adjust the "power" setting it will lower the "on" period. Then it cycles "on" and "off" during the run time. The higher the "power" setting the "more on time". Therefore, the power consumption when the microwave is "on" is the same. When the microwave is "off" it sits in "standby" mode with the LCD screen on, the fan, and the turn table - everything minus the "heat". 

That having been said - the lower "power" settings where the "heat" pulses does make it able to run, however with such slow heating it is a PITA to do any real cooking. For heating up water for tea - what should take close to 2 minutes would take 6-8.

I'll have to look in to the "inverter microwave" that you mention and see what it looks like.

I've had the same issues with electric ranges. All they do is pulse with 1x power setting/wattage. The higher the "thermostat" the more "on time". They do not keep a constant temp - which makes it a real PITA. I switched to propane for this reason - more uniform heat, controllable heat, and no electrical draw.

Unfortunately, so far no one has come up with a propane powered microwave


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Inverter appliances have notably removed the need to compute for "starting current", among other benefits. 

20 years ago, you're required to design electrical systems (wires, receptacles, breakers, and generators) to be capable of at least 3x the running Amps when connected to inductive loads. I am glad that those are gradually being replaced.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

they do make an LP stove and oven...
LOL!
yea the panasonic inverter microwave is too cool with the variable power.
nice so you do not have to nuke the heck out of the food like bread.

lots of tricks when you cook with a microwave!
i cooked with a microwave for 5 years... i did not use a stove!
toaster yea. and a hibachi for burgers and steaks.

pm if you need microwave cooking tips!


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

I would suggest getting the largest portable generator your budget affords. I have a duromax 12000 which I converted to run on natural gas. On natural gas it will run just about everything in my house (not all at once of course) but more than enough to get by an elongated outage comfortably. If I run on gasoline then I really don't have to conserve what I'm turning on because it has more than enough juice on gasoline to fire up whatever I need it to. I wouldn't look into an inverter generator unless sound is an issue for you (it is not for me). For reference I have a 2200 sq ft house with gas heat, stove and water heater. I've had a few outages and extended test runs and my setup has more than met my needs.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ajnuzzi said:


> I would suggest getting the largest portable generator your budget affords. I have a duromax 12000 which I converted to run on natural gas. On natural gas it will run just about everything in my house (not all at once of course) but more than enough to get by an elongated outage comfortably. If I run on gasoline then I really don't have to conserve what I'm turning on because it has more than enough juice on gasoline to fire up whatever I need it to. I wouldn't look into an inverter generator unless sound is an issue for you (it is not for me). For reference I have a 2200 sq ft house with gas heat, stove and water heater. I've had a few outages and extended test runs and my setup has more than met my needs.


also look in to a gen shack or gen shed to help on the noise...
that gen drone noise will get to you over time....
and if you are in the burbs or city it can make you a target during a large outage.

stealth runs are nice for sure!
if you can get under 60db in the city it is nice..
but even lower yet is a good place to be.


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