# Generator Running Rough After Fuel Valve Replacement



## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I have a RYI2200. There was a leak at the fuel shutoff valve when the engine floods. So, I purchased and installed a new shutoff valve and the fuel lines that connect to the valve. The valve came in pieces but I think I put it together right. While I was there, I took out the main jet and emulsion tube. Both were extremely clean so I just put that back together. I sprayed a little carb cleaner in the needle seat even tough it looked good. I put everything back together and now it’s surging badly. It was running very smoothly before so I can’t figure out what I might have messed up. Any ideas would be appreciated.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check the idle air jet
it should be on top of the carby


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

How many turns out did you set the main jet? If you’re not sure turn it in gently till it seats. Not hard, just be gentle. Then Turn it out one full turn. Try it and see if it’s better. You might need to turn it out another quarter turn, then maybe a little bit more. Let us know how it goes, Dutchy


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Dutchy491 said:


> How many turns out did you set the main jet? If you’re not sure turn it in gently till it seats. Not hard, just be gentle. Then Turn it out one full turn. Try it and see if it’s better. You might need to turn it out another quarter turn, then maybe a little bit more. Let us know how it goes, Dutchy


idle jet dutchy start at 2 turns out.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I thought I got the main jet in there pretty snug. I’ll tighten a bit more and see if I might be mistaken. I can’t imagine I would have done this, but if I put the emulsion tube in backward, would it cause this problem?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the emulsion tube should only fit one way.

the idle air jet should be on top of the carb.

snap a pix of the top of the carb for us.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

take a look at this video set
99% of the time on the little inverter gens this pilot jet is the issue!
this guy is pretty good on video series on repair






and this one on basic carb service


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Surging is going to be a carb/fuel problem. How fresh is the fuel in the tank? You also need to make sure the other jets are clear. I'd give the entire carb a good cleaning.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

The fuel is fresh and has a stabilizer in it. The odd thing is that it was running very well yesterday before I replaced the fuel valve, fuel lines, and took apart the carb. So I really think I might have put something back together wrong. I’ll check that idle jet just to be sure that’s not the issue.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> The fuel is fresh and has a stabilizer in it. The odd thing is that it was running very well yesterday before I replaced the fuel valve, fuel lines, and took apart the carb. So I really think I might have put something back together wrong. I’ll check that idle jet just to be sure that’s not the issue.


If you reassembled the carb incorrectly, I'd imagine that could cause some major issues. I don't know how you could install the emulsion tube backwards, but perhaps it's possible. Something like that would possibly create a lean mixture that would cause the engine to surge.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Another potential issue could be a poor seal between the engine and carb. How did the gasket look. You can check for a vacuum leak by spraying a bit of carb cleaner around the area and seeing if the engine smooths out Temporarily.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Before reading the post, I pulled of the carb to see if I had put it together correctly. I saw that I had put the gasket that goes between the carb and air intake on top of the gasket between engine and carb. Once I put it back together correclly, most of the issue was resolved. It’s still a little bumpy but nothing like it was. I’m a little disappointed it’s not as smooth as it was before but it’s better and probably good enough.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you can always order another carb gasket kit
they are cheap.
i keep 6 on hand for each gen set.
0.75 each in bulk


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

The gaskets looked pretty good but i’m not sure what else might be causing it to still be running a little rough after I worked on it. Maybe I should just order a new kit and see if it makes a difference. It was running really smoothly before, so im stumped what has changed.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

any chance of trash in the new fuel valve?
or the inside of the fuel lines?
that trash could cause exactly what is going on.
did you clean the idle air bleed pilot jet yet?
that is what is shown in those videos.
99% of the time that is where the surge is from..

does it still surge real bad when the eco mode is off?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

oh yea what is the cost of a new ryobi carb?
the hondas are $60-140.00 depending where you buy them from.
always an option!
and then you could have a spare!
i always keep a spare carb for the little gens on hand!
worth the price!


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I'm surprised. I cranked it up this morning and it was running really well. About 90-95 percent as well as it was running before I worked on it. If you listen very closely, you can hear an occasional bump. It's a faint bump, but if you are paying attention, you will hear it. Someone who was just standing by the machine would not notice it. So, I put it under a load and it worked just fine. I'm tempted to call it good enough and move on to the next thing. Would there be any concern that mild bump I'm hearing might cause a problem if I just ignore it? Would there for example be a concern it would cause the engine to run hot? I don't know why, but I've always been afraid of a generator catching fire.


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## PLX (Nov 22, 2020)

Try a little Sea Foam in the gas.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Well, I take it back…it’s running a little rougher again. I think I’ll change the gaskets and check the idle jet and see if that helps.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Well, i took apart the idle jet, made sure it was clean, re-cleaned the main jet, replaced the carb gaskets and it's running very well again. I appreciate all of the help in here!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool!
keep an eye on it.
if it was trash there could be more...
keep a spare set of gaskets on hand for sure!


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Today, I put a load on it and it ran pretty well, but every once in a while, I could hear a mild fluctuation. It did not sound like it was going to stall, it's just that the pitch would change briefly. Once I took the load off, it ran very smoothly again. The new gaskets I used were cheap ones I had that came with a knock off carb that I never installed. They gaskets fit correctly, but they are considerably thinner than the original gaskets. Other than something clogging the carb or a little bit of air is sneaking in a gasket, is there anything else I should consider?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> Well, i took apart the idle jet, made sure it was clean, re-cleaned the main jet, replaced the carb gaskets and it's running very well again. I appreciate all of the help in here!


Good stuff, 👍.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

@*ChrisKinlaw
one of those videos he was reaming the idle pilot jet out to .015 inches with a pin drill.
that would give it a bit more fuel in the idle mix from lean stock.

yea epa has them super lean to the point they almost will not run at low speed.*


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I ordered a new spark plug, fuel filter, and oem gaskets. Once they get here, I'm going to give the carb another good cleaning. I have a question: is there any possibility those slight pitch fluctuations could have been associated with the shop vac I had plugged in? I was holding the sop vac nozzle in a static position, so I'm "assuming" the power consumption would have been linear and should not be causing those minor pitch fluctuations from the generator. It's been raining the last 2 days, so I haven't had a chance to pull it out and attach it to something else to see if the issue is still there.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I wouldn’t be too concerned with slight fluctuations in engine pitch. If you have a multimeter I would run the shop vac again and monitor voltage and HZ for any significant fluctuations.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I have a good multimeter but only know how to use it for very basic functions. Would you please explain how to use it to monitor voltage with an appliance plugged into an outlet.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Select voltage or hertz and monitor the numbers while operating the shop vac. Voltage should stay above 120v and hertz should remain between 60-62hz and not waiver.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Select voltage or hertz and monitor the numbers while operating the shop vac. Voltage should stay above 120v and hertz should remain between 60-62hz and not waiver.


Just plug the leads into the outlet?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> Just plug the leads into the outlet?


yup


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I hate to keep asking questions, but I'm still learning. So, I would turn on the generator, then plug the shop vac into one of the two generator outlets. I would then wedge the leads of the Multimeter into that same outlet. So both the shop vac plug prongs and the multimeter leads would share then same receptacle. Is that right?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Yes. I forgot to specify probing the same duplex receptacle. Good catch.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I plugged in a power meter and the generator was right on 121v and 60hz. Here is what I noticed. When I plug in my window ac, the rpm's noticeably fluctuate. It's a brand new unit. With the compressor on, the ac pulls between 385 - 415 watts. The pitch (i guess rpms) really changes alot. I'm "thinking" it's the engine adjusting to changes in the load. When I plug in my shop vac, which pulls about twice as many watts, the sound is much steadier. It pulled right around 800 watts. There was some fluctuation, but it's pretty mild - noticeable, but mild. At idle, there engine is smooth and there aren't really any noticeable changes in pitch. I checked the spark plug gap and cleaned up the plug a little, but that didn't really make a difference. I did notice a small crack in spark plug boot. The crack is really small, so I doubt that could be causing any problems but I've ordered a new boost to be safe.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

The tone of the engine doesn’t necessarily represent a change in RPM. It’s really only an audible indication of engine load. As the throttle valve opens wider to adjust to the alternators load the pitch changes.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I suppose tone wasn't a very technical description. It just seems like the RPM's would stay steady under a consistent load, such as when I had a shop vac plugged in. I'm probably just being hypersensitive and it's probably just normal behavior of the engine.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> I plugged in a power meter and the generator was right on 121v and 60hz. Here is what I noticed. When I plug in my window ac, the rpm's noticeably fluctuate. It's a brand new unit. With the compressor on, the ac pulls between 385 - 415 watts. The pitch (i guess rpms) really changes alot. I'm "thinking" it's the engine adjusting to changes in the load. When I plug in my shop vac, which pulls about twice as many watts, the sound is much steadier. It pulled right around 800 watts. There was some fluctuation, but it's pretty mild - noticeable, but mild. At idle, there engine is smooth and there aren't really any noticeable changes in pitch. I checked the spark plug gap and cleaned up the plug a little, but that didn't really make a difference. I did notice a small crack in spark plug boot. The crack is really small, so I doubt that could be causing any problems but I've ordered a new boost to be safe.


replace that spark plug boot asap.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> I suppose tone wasn't a very technical description. It just seems like the RPM's would stay steady under a consistent load, such as when I had a shop vac plugged in. I'm probably just being hypersensitive and it's probably just normal behavior of the engine.


The engines governor will keep the engine at ~3600rpms but the engine tone will differ as load varies.

I suggest Buy a simple inductive tach. 








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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I took apart the carb again and it was very clean. I cleaned everything again anyway, including the jets and emulsion tube, with wire and carb cleaner. The float and needled were very clean and working properly. I replaced the spark plug, the fuel filter, and all of the carb gaskets. I put it back together and the engine sounded like it might cut out at idle. I kept adjusting the idle screw until it didn't sound like it might cut out. But, once I got to that point, it sounded like it was idling a little too high. I have a tachometer on order, but it hasn't arrived yet, so I can confirm the idle is too high - it just sounds like it to me. Under a load the engine still does not sound consistent - the pitch moves around. The engine sounds like it's working a little harder then a little easier, then harder the easier, maybe varying by 5%. It seems like the engine would sound the same since the load remained the same. I'm waiting on a boot to replace the slightly crack plug boot. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'm not sure what the next step should be. Maybe, I need to adjust the valves, but the engine has very little use, so I'm kind of doubting they are significantly out of adjustment. Any suggestions what to do next, including "just use it and quit worrying what it sounds like." would be appreciated.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

are you running at eco mode off?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Yes, I run it on auto idle after I start it up.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Tachometer, and maybe posting a video.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

it is an inverter gen so the inverter sets the speed.
and the low idle screw speed needs to be set right as it is the low speed stop for the throttle plate.
engine off we start at throttle plate closed and one turn in for a close enough to start the gen setting.
you want at least 500 rpm up from the lowest speed the engine will run at.
so maybe 2500 rpm ish? for the eco on speed min with no load.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Thank you very much for the help. The tachometer should be here on Tuesday. I'll send a quick update once that is installed and the idle is set.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

make sure to get the tach set right on the settings.
all of the 2 and 4 cycle and numbers of cyls...
and depends if you have wasted spark style of coil system.
it is a pain to get it first set up
but from there it never needs to be changed if all you do is single cyl 4 cycle engines.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I just need to replace the spark plug boot, but I couldn't find where I could order just the boot. I went ahead and ordered the complete ignition coil with a boot. Now, I'm finding out the seller really didn't have it in stock and I cant find where anyone else does either. Would it be a bod idea to to try find a similar boot and just replace that part?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

will a honda gx390 boot fit?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I don't know for sure, but it definitely doesn't look the same. If I can find one that is similar, but it be safe to switch it out?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

a boot is a boot as long as it fits


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I have the tachometer installed. With auto idle off, the engine is running at 4200. With auto idle on and the low idle adjustment screw all the way out, it's running about 3300. Can you please advise how to adjust the idle?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

this is an inverter gen so 4200 rpm is ok for eco off and no load for this gen set.

no load on the gen set, eco mode on.
you say it is 3300 rpm now
you are going to want the idle screw at least 200 rpm over the min run speed set by the inverter.
so set the idle screw at 3500 rpm.
this helps on the recovery for when the load kicks in.
for a no or low sag power.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I decided to run it one more time and pay close attention before I make any adjustments. Here is what I found
with eco on, it fluctuated between 3370 - 3450
with eco off, it fluctuated between 4230 - 4300
with eco on, under a mid range load, it fluctuated between 3120 - 3220
Are these fluctuations normal? Is reaching 4300 with eco off okay?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> I decided to run it one more time and pay close attention before I make any adjustments. Here is what I found
> with eco on, it fluctuated between 3370 - 3450
> with eco off, it fluctuated between 4230 - 4300
> with eco on, under a mid range load, it fluctuated between 3120 - 3220
> Are these fluctuations normal? Is reaching 4300 with eco off okay?


you are still on gasoline right?
what does the exhaust smell like?
did you clean the exhaust spark arrest er?
have you tried the idle jet mod yet?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Yes, still running on gasoline. I can't say that I noticed any unusual smell with the exhaust. I just now looked at the spark arrester, it's got some black residue on it so I'm going to clean that up in just a bit. I haven't done the idle jet mod because I had let that slip my mind. If i can find the right sized bit, I'll knock that out today when I clean the arrestor. Are the rpm numbers (and the fluctuations) within a normal range?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

if it was a honda i would say no.
sounds like a mixture issue or a issue in the emulsion tube.
try the idle jet mod.
if that does not work replace the carb.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

That sounds good, I couldn't find one of the 0.015 bits locally, so I ordered on today on Amazon. I'm hoping the mod will work. I tried to replace that carb once before. The servo (I think it's called) is connected to the carb with screws that won't budge. I'll break the carb and strip the heads before I get those screws out. They must have some thread lock on them.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we use a soldering gun to warm the screw heads on the small screws.
yea they could have used red loctite on them.
just be care full not to melt the plastic for the servo.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I don't think this would matter, but on the video I just watched, he said he was using 13/1000 of an inch which i think would be .013. I ordered .015. Should that very small difference be okay?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

for what generator engine on the 13 thou?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Actually I think it was a power washer he was working on. So I cranked the generator today to see if I could smell anything with the exhaust. I couldn’t smell anything, but I noticed was some very faint popping at exhaust so I’m thinking maybe it’s running a little rich?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

most power washers are a constant heavy load...
depending on the design...
they should run on the rich side.

a gen set will depend on the load.
and needs to be able to ramp up and down the speed fast with out stumble (sag).
it is a fine line between a good mix and lean.

an afr meter helps to have the real numbers on gasoline.

the popping can be a lean or fouled chamber as well.
carbon left over can cause the post flash pop. 

is your valve lash set to perfect?
that is a big thing.

you could also have a carb spitting raw fuel from a poor emulsion.
did you de burr the emulsion tubes yet?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m going to add adjusting the valves to the list. It’s got really low use so I wonder if maybe it wasn’t right out of the factory. I don’t recall reading about debuting emulsion tube. I’ll have to google that one. Thank you for hanging in there on this.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

part of the carb clean.
and on a new gen i have seen them not drilled right.
leaving hangers of burrs...

they chunk out parts way way too fast on production...
but that is life in fast large production mfg!
that is why they use inspection cameras on the good production lines.
they kick out the bad parts for rework.

that is why we have a flow bench setup here...
we can test all of the carbs before they go in to service.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I tried to look up spec on that ryobi generator but cannot even find anything on the engine displacement…


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I went to bore the idle jet today and and the tiny drill bit broke off in the pilot jet and I couldn’t get it out. I had another knock off carb on hand. The idle jet seemed to be identical as well as the emulsion tube, so I swapped them out as well as the float and needle. It was too late to crank it in my neighborhood but it’ll be interesting to see how it runs. I found something interesting. I replaced the screw that holds the main jet in pace. The old screw would seat then you could only turn about 1/8 of a turn before it was clear it wouldn’t budge. The new screw could be adjusted.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

That didn’t work out well at all. Long story short, I have to replace the carb. I finally got the carb off and in the process pulled a wire out of it’s connecter. How can I fix this?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

well you need extractor tools for the connector pin.

always pull on the connector not the wires.
and make sure the tabs are released.

snap a pix of the pin inside
is it blade or socket side? (male or female on the terminal)
pm if you need release tools links.

we extract the terminal then solder the wire to the brass
reset the hold tang and push back in place in the plastic till it clicks.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Yea, I didn't even realize I had touched the wires, but I looked down and it was disconnected. I'll send some pictures your way in just a bit. One of the challenges is that there is very little play. Is there any reason I couldn't cut the wires at the connectors, join the wires, and put a shrink sleeve around them?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I really couldn’t get behind the connector to snap a good picture. There is very little slack. Is there any reason I couldn’t just clip the connectors and make a permanent joint?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

You can eliminate that connector if you can’t remove the pin to re attach to the wire. Simple solution are some insulated bullet or spade connectors. You want to be able to disconnect it still.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Thank you for the reply. It is the connector to the servo. If the servo goes bad, I'm just going to buy a new generator. It's cost more than the old unit is worth. I'm thinking about just making a good solid permanent connection with solder etc.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I was able to figure out of how to release the pin from the connector. The only challenge i have now is how to get the wire re-secured to the pin. It looks like the manufacturer crimped down hard, so I'm going to have to figure out a way to open it up a little.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

This is it


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Solder it.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

so i'd put the wire basically on top of the crimp and put solder on top of that?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Yeah.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

open up the stress relief crimp and place the wire in that spot then solder it.
make sure to use rosin flux to help with the solder flow.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Is the stress relief part at the bottom? I can get that open but not the top. Should I cut back the insulation to expose more eire of just use as is?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just maybe 1/16 of an inch bare 
crimp to the stress point the bare wire and also solder it.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

So I soldered the broken wire and replaced the old carb with a brand new oem carb. It running actually worse than it was before. The low idle speed was set to about 2900 rpms which was causing bumps. I adjusted the low idle speed to about 3450. In eco mode the engine will run between 3400 and 3550 rpms for the most part but about once per 2 minutes it will rev up as high as 3750 rpms then will settle back into the 3400 - 3550 range. The engine will do the same thing in eco mode with a load. With eco mode off it fluctuates between 4150 - 4250. Im
A bit frustrated it’s worse now. If I could get it back the way it was I would just call that annoying but good enough. That intermittent rev I have now will be hard to live with.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

are you sure the fuel valve is flowing fuel right?
and that there are no kinks in the fuel lines??
and have you tried with the fuel cap loose the tank vent might not be working right...


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

It runs exactly the same with the gas cap off. I don’t see anywhere any of the fuel lines are being compressed. As far as the fuel shut off valve, i replaced that and I “think” it’s working right. The reving is going to drive me a little crazy, but will it mess up the unit and I just throw in the towel and run it as is? Ive probably put 40 hours of effort into working on it, finding parts, etc. I’ve learned a lot, but at this point, I‘m losing confidence I can solve it and it seems like each repair job I do makes things a little worse. I can’t figure out how I created a new problem after replacing the carb and soldering that plug blade. It runs just like it did before, but now it revs way up every couple of minutes. The strange thing to me is that it will for okay for as much as 2-3 full minutes before it really revs, then fairly quickly calms back down. I’ve had reving problems on motors but typically the frequency is every few seconds, not minutes.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check for any hidden fuel filters some where.
and make sure the tank is super clean.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I checked the tank last night and it was very clean. I’m really thinking the unit only has the one fuel filter and I changed that one. I’ll look again. I ran it for a while today. I noticed there is a lot of faint pop, pop, pop around the exhaust and I think it happens more around the time it’s reving


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

put an inline spark tester on it and make sure it is firing right...

almost thinking an over fuel build up?
hummmm.......

shoot another video of it running bad for us.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I was thinking the exact same thing with a spark tester. I’m wondering if it is missing and then it revs up to compensate for the power loss. Maybe that extra fuel is getting burnt in the exhaust causing the mild pops. When I was putting things back together, I was not thinking and moved the arm on the servo (I guess that’s what it’s called). I immediately put it back where I thought it was. If I was off by a hair, would that be causing this type of problem.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

a couple of quick questions. I know the in-line spark tester will show when there is spark coming from the coil but how can I tell if there is a misfire? Also, I’m questioning my original repair which was the fuel shutoff valve replacement. Maybe I didn’t put that valve together right. I can’t really think of an easy way to test whether that might be the issue.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

One other note. When I pulled out the old spark plug, the gap was well under the .024-.028 range provided by Ryobi. I adjusted it to the recommendation and I always felt like it ran worse. To rule out a spark plug issue, I ordered a new OEM spark plug and the gap was also well under .024. I gapped that one to the recommendation and felt like that brad new plug didn’t run as well as the old plug. Is there any possibility the spark plug recommendation gap provided by Ryobi is wrong since both gaps on both OEM plugs were off?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> a couple of quick questions. I know the in-line spark tester will show when there is spark coming from the coil but how can I tell if there is a misfire? Also, I’m questioning my original repair which was the fuel shutoff valve replacement. Maybe I didn’t put that valve together right. I can’t really think of an easy way to test whether that might be the issue.


you will notice a difference in the color on the misfire on a plug side it should be a bit brighter if the plug is shorted with carbon.

yea revisit the fuel valve replacement.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

That sounds good and thank you again for the help. I don't "think" it's the problem, but I have a new fuel pump that came with the carb, so I'm going to put that on. Also, I'm going to pull the bowl off the carb just to make sure there isn't any manufacturing trash in there. Then, I'll button it back up and send recording of unit running with inline spark tester attached. I think that's suppose to make it to me on Wednesday.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I went ahead and put in the new fuel pump a little earlier, but I don't think it made any real difference. I'm including a video link here where you can hear the rpm's changing.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup rich lean action.
maybe air bubbles????
wish i had a clear fuel bowl for that gen.
we have them for the hondas for the flow bench so we can see the fuel level and action in the bowl.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Does that mean it's moving between rich and lean because air is getting into the fuel system somewhere?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea
it could be low fuel level in the bowl....
or too much vibration at the bowl causing the fuel to dance and get air in it like an emulsion....
do you have an afr meter? 
you can see what the mixture is doing with an air fuel ratio meter..
or you can smell the exhaust....


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hey does it run any different with the side covers off?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

actually, yes, it does run differently with the side covers off. in both situations, it's having the issue of rpm's going up, but the engine rpm's run probably 250-300 rpms higher with the side cover on. the overall rpms are definitely lower with the side cover off.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup the fan is sucking the air out of the carb inlet.
is there room to do a air inlet for the air box through the side cover?
i used a grommet for the plastic trim and then foam on the inside cover.

this stops the power robbing cooling fan from sucking the intake air out of the air box intake port.

some where i have pix of this mod.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m having a little trouble visualizing. Would this modification improve the reving or just allow the unit to function better?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I still think I moved the position of the servo a little when I was removing the carb. I had to drill out a stuck bolt. When the bolt released, right at the servo arm, the servo separated from the carb right at that point so the arm was likely moved. If that did happen, I’m thinking that would have the throttle slightly out of position, particularly at the ends of its travel and might cause the servo to hunt. I’m thinking that I could remove the carb and look at the throttle position. I guess it should be completely closed. Is that right. Any ideas if this could be the issue and if so how to resolve?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hummm...
snap some pix please.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Okay, I’m going to take it off tonight and will send some pictures.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Even though it's a brand new carb, I decided to pull it off and have a look. At first, I couldn't get a piece of wire brush through the passage. With a bit of work, the wire finally made it through. After I got that cleaned out I sprayed it with a little carb cleaner. The float, bowl, etc were in great shape. I tried to make sure the servo was in the right position relative to throttle. I put it back together, without the sides. The unit was running very well and I had it set around 3400 rpms with Eco on. I put the sides on and buttoned it back up. The rpms went up to about 3700 and would stay there a while then eventually come back down to maybe 3550. Its running now better than it was but not as well as it was running at first. I'm thinking the issue is either lack of air with the sides on or else maybe the pilot immediately plugged up again once it ran for a while. The tank is extremely clean, I have a brand new fuel filter.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

When I tried to crank it again, it wouldn't start. I waited 15 minutes, no start. Waited 45 minutes, no start. I've never had problems starting it, so this is a new problem.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> When I tried to crank it again, it wouldn't start. I waited 15 minutes, no start. Waited 45 minutes, no start. I've never had problems starting it, so this is a new problem.


I didn't see if you had thought of it, but have you tried replacing the fuel line? I've had problems with fuel lines before, especially older ones.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I actually had that same thought today. It looks okay, but its old so it could very well be breaking down. I guess I would measure the inner diameter and head to NAPA or a similar auto store? I'm still thinking it could be an ignition issue, so I ordered a new ignition coil today. I have a spark tester and it is showing some spark, but I don't think that would tell you whether it's weak or not. Also, I'm confused about installing the new ignition could. My experience replacing ignition coils has been gapping it against the flywheel, but the ignition coil on this generator is nowhere near the flywheel, so I'm confused how it works.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Typically when it has taken alot of pulls to start the engine, it would flood. I noticed that even though I pulled enough to make my shoulder sore, I didn't smell gas and didn't see any fuel passing through the overflow tube, so I don't think it was flooding which is kind of weird. Finally, it started up and ran, but not nearly as well as it was running this morning right after I had worked on it.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I took it apart today and checked the main jet which was all good. I cleaned the pilot jet once again to to be sure, but it was fairly clean already. I checked all of the hoses and everything looked good. I put it back together and gave it about 20 yanks. My already torn rotator cuff made me stop pulling. It didn't even act like it was close to starting. I started thinking back at the money I've spent on parts and the amount of time I've spent trying to get it to run right. I've probably gotten 20 hours of service out of it total. A light bulb went off inside my head and I knew right then 100% exactly what was wrong with it! I couldn't believe that I has missed this until now. The problem that has caused it to run rough and now not start is very simple: It's a Ryobi and I'm not a small engine mechanic. It doesn't have any interest in running, so I'm going to put it out of it's misery. I have a 12 gauge and a barn behind my house. Once I can think of some kind final last words to say...


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

You gotta make a video of that!!!! Would be extra special if you were able to get it running and then put it out of it’s misery. LOL, Dutchy


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

That would be awesome. If it were just within my power to get that thing to run...


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Have you pulled the fuel line at the carb and tested the petcock? I would try that. The engine sounds fuel-starved. A malfunctioning valve could cause a flow problem. 

If you're not getting debris in the carb from a fuel line that's shedding contaminants, there has to be something else going on. There could be some blockage in the valve itself, even when it's opened.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I was thinking it was the valve too. I unscrewed the float bowl drain screw last night. In the run position, I got descent flow out of the drain tube. If the shutoff valve was blocked, I don't think I would have had any flow, but I don't know that for sure. Also, after those 20 pulls, I didn't smell gas at all. I pulled off the air filter and it was bone dry. I pulled out the spark plug and it was completely dry too. So, I also think the engine is fuel starved.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

After leaving things alone for a couple of days, it occurred to me the problem just might be a bad spark plug, even though it was nearly brand new. I took out the spark plug. It looked perfect, but I tested it with a multimeter anyway, an the resistance was exactly where it should be etc. Since a spark plug costs only 4 bucks, I went ahead picked one up. On the second pull, it fired right up and it was running more smoothly than it has in a long time. However, when I put an 800 watt load on it, it sputtered. I let it run for a bit, tried again, and same thing happened - both witch eco on and with eco off. In the past it ran that shop vac without trouble and should be able to power at least 1500 watts. Any ideas what might explain the loss of power?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

back to fuel


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

The manual said to tighten the plug 1/2 turn, but it wasn’t very snug. I went back and snugged it up probably another 1/4 to 1/2 turn and that seems to have solved the problem at lest for now…. I wish they would provide a torque spec.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Perfect time to shoot it…. Just kidding, but if it’s running why not run it for hours (off eco) with a good dose of carb cleaner, preferably with a medium load if it will take it. Might burn off any carbon or gunk…. Dutchy


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

LOL, Well, she lost her prime spot in my garage to one of those red ones that I can depend on. I’m going to keep the Ryobi around for fun to tinker with and learn, and the Honda for reliable power. Who knows, maybe when the next hurricane blows, the old Ryobi might get a chance to prove it can make power too. As far as carb cleaner, would seafoam be okay? I’ve got some of that on hand I think.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Yep, double dose it and let er rip…


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> LOL, Well, she lost her prime spot in my garage to one of those red ones that I can depend on. I’m going to keep the Ryobi around for fun to tinker with and learn, and the Honda for reliable power. Who knows, maybe when the next hurricane blows, the old Ryobi might get a chance to prove it can make power too. As far as carb cleaner, would seafoam be okay? I’ve got some of that on hand I think.


we use seafoam and stabil in all of our gas here.
2x on the stabil
lol on the honda as the primary power!
we will convert you to a smaller honda as a back up as well
lol!
i keep a couple 2200 hondas new in the box just in case...
they get rotated now and then as folks need power in the middle of the night
when all the stores are closed...

i had 6 brand new honda gens here when the dechero hit iowa last year...
no calls for gens...
i do not do face book etc.

it is going to be a rough winter 2021-2022...
we are as ready as we can be here.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I gotta say, I'm impressed with seafoam. I wasn't sure I would get any benefit, because that generator has a brand new brand new carb, brand new fuel pump, brand new fuel filter, and most of the lines replaced. I ran for about 3 hours at double dose. It sputtered a few times the first hour and probably 1 time the second hour. After the 3rd hour, I plugged up my shop vac and ran it for a while. There were still some fluctuations, but it did not sound like it was going to sputter out at any point, which was a considerable improvement. I wasn't able to find OEM fuel line coming from the tank, which I think was the only line I didn't replace. I'm wondering if maybe the sea foam cleared that out a little and makes me think I might benefit from replacing that line.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Since now I can work on it just for fun, I'm going to crack it open and adjust the valves. I'm hoping I can remember how to get to top dead. I did the valves a long time ago on one of my Honda vehicles, but if I remember right, it had a mark which made it easier to get to TDC. I've never done the screwdriver method, so this will be a first.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

with the spark plug in pull the rope till you get resistance
then remove the plug and look in the spark hole
pull the rope till you are at the top.
to set the valves tdc is ok on compression stroke.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I reamed the pilot jet and cleaned the carb thoroughly. The line to the tank was a little old, so I went ahead and replaced that. I double checked to make sure none of the hoses were pinched, etc. I cranked it up and it was idling at about 3000 rpms and was kind of popping in the muffler, very soft but you could hear it. I adjusted the idle screw to about 3500 and until it didn't have the faint pop and was running well. I put the sides on and left the access panel open. It started the idling up then idling down again. It idled up about every 2 minutes from 3600 to 3800 then would settle down. It's now running very well under a moderate load - my shop vac, so the previous problem was solved. Could the possibly be due to not getting enough air, considering it ran much better with the sides off? The air filters are very clean.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup
mod the air box for external air intake.
i had to do that on a eu1000i 
the internal cooling fan was working so good it was sucking the air out of the carb.
after the mod it worked perfect.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

do you possibly have a picture of that modification or can you tell me how you did it?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

pm me


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I went in today to adjust the valves. I had read about putting a dowel in the plug hole to help with finding TDC. That turned out to be a terrible idea because the dowel somehow broke with a big piece left in the hole. It took probably 2 hours to finally get it out using a shop vac with fuel hose attached and a long pair of plyers. Turned out the exhaust was pretty loose, so I got that adjusted to spec. I checked the tank again and it was **** and span. I pulled off the carb and it was clean as a whistle. I took off the fuel shutoff valve and it was very clean and installed correctly. I double checked to make sure none of the lines were pinched. I put it all back together and... same issue. Runs about 2 minutes steadily, then the engine goes up about 250rmps, then pretty much immediately settles back down. I have a reliable Honda now, so I'm just keeping this generator around for a back up. Anyway, I don't think it's an air flow issue because it's fluctuates even with the side cover off. I'm not sure what else to check so I'm wide open to any suggestions. Here is what I've done so far.
1. installed a new carb and cleaned it once after installed
2. installed new fuel pump
3. installed new fuel lines
4. installed new fuel valve - fuel shutoff
5. installed 2 new spark plugs
5. clean tank
6. confirmed no kinked lines
7. treated with seafoam
8. cursed at it and told it that it was nothing but a Honda wannabe


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol love #8!!
LOL!!
i needed that today!
you did try to loosen or remove the gas cap right?


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Facebook Marketplace. 

Then, head on over to the Wen website for a _real _Honda clone.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Yea, I did try loosening up the cap. I kind of had to keep my finger on it because the vibration was trying to spin it off. I think the chances are low, but I’m wondering if I might have another bad spark plug. Since they just cost a few bucks, I’m going to try another brand to see if that makes a difference, then I’m going to call it good enough - if I can.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just making sure on the cap
darn cap vents have a habit of corking up sometimes..
i had another one today on a log splitter with a gx390.
new old style cap fixed it right up...
the new style tall fuel caps are getting corked up if you over fill the fuel tank...
for a no tank vent...

the customer was still here and still connected to is truck...
i asked him to start it before he left it off...
it wend right in to searching for speed and i grabbed the fuel cap and spun it off and it went right to normal run speed.
i let it run for a bit then killed it.
went in to the shop and found a nib old style fuel cap and said lets try this one!
started right up and ran perfect!
$16.00 part fix!
he was happy after a 60 mile drive to get here!
the local honda guy in his big city town missed that one!
i bet he will never hear the end of that!
lol!


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I replaced all of the fuel lines. It runs way better. I noticed some bubbles before and after the fuel shutoff. I really think all my connections are solid and I can’t find any fuel leaks. Are the bubbles any need to worry?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m double dipping but I have another quick question. There is a hose that runs from the fuel pump to the engine. I’m thinking that is probably a vacuum hose. I used Tygon fuel hose to replace that original hose, but it looks like that hose might have bent somewhat at the engine connection. Is that actually a vacuum port and would fuel hose be a bad choice?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ahh transparent lines.
did you try to purge them?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> I’m double dipping but I have another quick question. There is a hose that runs from the fuel pump to the engine. I’m thinking that is probably a vacuum hose. I used Tygon fuel hose to replace that original hose, but it looks like that hose might have bent somewhat at the engine connection. Is that actually a vacuum port and would fuel hose be a bad choice?


it depends on the tygon.
if it holds shape then ok
but restricted is a bad day in the making.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Thank you very much for replying. No, I didn’t purge the system. Can you please advise how to do that? As far as the Tygon, I don't think it did hold it's shape very well. I know the 2 connections on the fuel pump are fuel in and fuel out. Is that 3rd connection then vacuum and will need vacuum line?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I put the old fuel pump back in and the bubbles stopped. The “brand new” fuel pump was apparently defective.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> I put the old fuel pump back in and the bubbles stopped. The “brand new” fuel pump was apparently defective.


could to have been a bad diaphragm or not put together right inside pump.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ChrisKinlaw said:


> Thank you very much for replying. No, I didn’t purge the system. Can you please advise how to do that? As far as the Tygon, I don't think it did hold it's shape very well. I know the 2 connections on the fuel pump are fuel in and fuel out. Is that 3rd connection then vacuum and will need vacuum line?


cool that you found the bubble issue.
air lock in a fuel system can be an issue.
we use a mitevac suction pump to purge the air.
pm for details.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

When I put the old fuel pump back on the bubbling went away. It idles great now, but with a moderate load, it intermittently stumbles. I went back and replaced one of the gaskets that had a small tear, added a sturdier vacuum line, and put in better fuel line clamps. This morning when I started it up and it was cool it was running well. But this afternoon, I cranked it again and it’s stumbling again under moderate load. It’ll run fairly around 3150 rpms for maybe a minute, then, every once in a while, it will stumble. The RPMs will go down as low as 2800 for maybe 1 second as it’s stumbling. So far I have
1. Replaced the gaskets
2. Replaced the carb
3. Replaced the spark plug
4. Replaced all of the fuel lines
5. Replaced the vacuum hose to the carb
6. Cleaned the new carb, again
7. Reamed the idle jet on the new carb
8. Cleaned the gas tank

I’m a little stumped what to do next.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I don’t know if this is related, but when I kill the engine it’s very hard to restart for a while.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I forgot to add that I also
1. Adjusted the valves
2. Cleaned the air filters
3. Replaced the fuel filter


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I connected the inline spark tester. Before adding a load the light was solid. I added a load and at first it ran fine. Then, as it warmed up, the engine started stumbling. When the engine stumbled, the light intensity definitely decreased, basically blinking as the engine stumbled. I'm assuming that means the issue is with the ignition coil, right?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)




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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

also bad ground, water in the kill switch, or bad coil, bad low oil sensor unless it is disconnected.
yea spark issue


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I replaced the ignition coil today and problem continues. I’ve ordered the pick-up coil and will try that next. Im including a picture of the low oil sensor. I can’t see that sensor on the engine and 2 wires that look just like those are coming from underneath the engine so the sensor must be located between the base and bottom of engine which is bolted together. Do I need to disconnect both terminals of the sensor or maybe just the one that connects to ground ?


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Here is a picture of the sensor


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yellow wire for oil sensor if it is a clone.
or the bullet plug for the bypass for low oil.


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

I disconnected the low oil sensor and I replaced the ignition coil. It was cool outside this morning and it ran beautifully even under load. This afternoon after it warmed up, I started it back up and after it got good and warm it started missing again. The misfiring definitely has something do to with the outside temperature. Any ideas what it might be?


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

That’s also a symptom of a spark plug breaking down due to the heat. Replace the spark plug again but purchase it from a different store, and hope for a different batch date…or switch brands altogether…😬


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

It just seems like it would have to be a spark plug, the coil, or the trigger coil (i think that’s what it’s called). The resistance looked good on my trigger coil, but I ordered that part anyway. I actually did go to a new store for the last spark plug, but it’s a $2.18 champion, so the chances it was good is probably 50/50 at best. That was the only brad they had. I’m going to try a different shop today. Now the spark on the inline tester is still showing a clear misfire, even with the new coil. Could this still be a problem with the plug anyway?


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Find an NGK equivalent…


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

Well, I put in NGKs and the motor ran noticeably quieter but the intermittent miss was still there. I put in the new trigger coil and it made a huge difference. There is still an occasional miss and change in rpms but it happens way less frequently and the fluctuation range is much smaller. I’d say it made an 85% improvement. Now, it runs the best it has since I got it, but I’d still like to figure out what’s causing that bit of occasional misfire and get it running like my Honda.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Well good news nonetheless. I’d run a tank of fuel through it, working with a 75% load, with a good dose of fuel treatment. There’s probably a carbon buildup somewhere due to the misfire that should be burned off…


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## ChrisKinlaw (Feb 7, 2021)

That makes sense because it’s a very small stumble now and does not produce the significant engine vibration like before. I’ll give that a try and see if i can get it as smooth as my Honda. I surely appreciate all of the help learning how to work on my generators. I just was going to scrap that machine.


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