# Are generator THD and weight of any real concern?



## Cristian (May 9, 2020)

One of the reasons I selected the Westinghouse WGEN1200DF for my backup generator is because it supposedly produces a "clean sine wave" of under 5% THD. Although I won't be running anything directly off the unit itself, I figure it can't hurt to have the power as "clean" as possible. Some people say this issue of a clean sine wave doesn't matter at all, and others say that some of their appliances won't even work unless the power is within certain "cleanliness" specs. Any ideas whether this issue of THD is one I should even be paying attention to? Is it worth using the sine wave as a buying criterion?

There's also another thing that has been bugging me for quite a while now, and which I can't find an answer for. The Westinghouse WGEN12000DF weighs in at around 350 pounds and costs around $2400. I had also been looking at another brand of generator, which also produces a really clean sine wave, the Pulsar PG12000B. But this one not only costs $999, but it weighs in at only 200. To confuse things more, the Pulsar PG15KVTWB weighs in at around 380 pounds and costs around $2700. 

All of these units are in the same general 12000w - 15000w ballpark insofar as their power ratings, but their weight (which I assume is in the alternator itself) and price differ so drastically! I know that you always end up "getting what you pay for," but can anyone outline for me the main advantages or disadvantages of the heavier/costlier unit versus the lighter/cheaper one? Am I paying a bunch more money for a much larger alternator? If so, does the average homeowner really need it?

As always, all help is appreciated!

- Cris


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

No the average home owner does not need that big of a generator. The only reason for one that big is to run central air conditioners. Truth is a smaller unit can run central air units too, but with some help. Soft start capacitors can reduce the inrush amps needed to start large electric motors, especially ones with head pressure. 

Weight means nothing, unless your physically unable to move the thing. In either case a deticated enclosure for the generator is never a bad idea. 

As far as THD goes, LESS is MORE. You dont high THD. The worst offenders were capacitor style voltage regulation from the generators of yesteryear. Even the cheap generators of today have decent Auto Voltage Regulation (AVR). I'm not very confident in alot of these bargain generator companies that advertise <5% THD. They also like to claim wattage ratings that are clearly embellished. You definitely get what you pay for in this world.


----------



## Cristian (May 9, 2020)

Those Northstar units look pretty nice. Our house is disgustingly energy efficient. Every light in the place is LED and even our ceiling fans only draw like 33 watts. The only real power suckers we'd be using with a generator would be the well pump and a 3 ton central air unit. But since I will be using propane, I will have to down rate the wattage accordingly. Maybe a step or two smaller Northstar unit will be better, along with a soft start capacitor for the ac unit.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you would be best to spend a few bucks for a good meter setup..
and find out what you really need for the basic run...
it might surprise you that you only need a couple of kw !! or less!!
I can run the whole house in the winter off one eu2000i gen set!! no kidding!!
fridge, deep freeze, gas furnace and all the lights, tv's, internet stuff.. yup! it all runs off one eu2000i honda gen!!
you could always separate out the heavy hitters for a second gen set or just do like I do and add another gen for when I need more power..

north star makes good heads in the basic gensets. and they run as rated!
way way better gen than the JINA import junk.
and they do use real honda gx series engines on the good sets. that is important if you plan to use them!!
honda pe makes a good engine! but stay with the gx series that is the pro line engine.


----------



## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

My online UPS is speced at "max <5% THD" and apparently thats the closest you can get to mains grid power, I dread to think what my generator is as its Chinese made



iowagold said:


> it might surprise you that you only need a couple of kw !! or less!!
> I can run the whole house in the winter off one eu2000i gen set!! no kidding!!
> fridge, deep freeze, gas furnace and all the lights, tv's, internet stuff.. yup! it all runs off one eu2000i honda gen!!


Wow... So would my generator (2600watt constant) run my fridgefreezer and freezer, plus tv, lights ect?

I thought a fridge and a freezer would be about the max number of applience you could run on a 2000watt generator because of the startup load?


----------



## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

Definitely start them one at a time. Don't just turn on a main breaker, and let multiple items (especially things with a compressor, like fridge/furnace) turn on at once.

Let the generator stabilize for 10 seconds or so after each breaker, before adding another "big" item. 

LED or fluorescent lights don't draw much power. Even an LCD (not plasma!) isn't too bad. 

In a pinch, you could run the fridge, or the freezer, but alternate between them. They don't both need to be live constantly. Letting one run for a few hours, then changing to the other, would still keep them cold. 

Like iowagold, I have a single EU2000i that runs the fridge, gas furnace, internet, lights, TV, etc. It doesn't have much extra capacity, and the 1300W microwave will overload it unless I turn the power way down (it's an inverter microwave, so that actually reduces the constant power draw). 

And I did add a second EU2000i that I can run in parallel, for additional capacity, which gives us more "breathing room". But the single one can provide 1600W continuous, and will run our essentials. 

So your 2600W might run more than you're currently asking it to.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

speedy2019 said:


> My online UPS is speced at "max <5% THD" and apparently thats the closest you can get to mains grid power, I dread to think what my generator is as its Chinese made
> 
> 
> 
> ...


speed are you all led on the lights??
my inrush is only 4.5 amps at 125 volts ac for a max of 9 ams if they both would kick in at the same time!!
the run is 1.1 amps each on the fridge and the chest freezer.
the furnace is 7.2 amps inrush and 3.2 run so I leave the fan on all of the time during the winter when on generator..

this is on real honda eu series inverter generators speed.... not sure what your jina gen will stand for inrush or for real world run power..
and you are at 220 vac over in the uk..
we are 125 vac on most of our smaller stuff here in the states.
big stuff is mostly 240 vac here..
but then there is industrial etc as well as 3 phase for comercial.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

RedOctobyr said:


> Definitely start them one at a time. Don't just turn on a main breaker, and let multiple items (especially things with a compressor, like fridge/furnace) turn on at once.
> 
> Let the generator stabilize for 10 seconds or so after each breaker, before adding another "big" item.
> 
> ...


lol red on the microwave...
yea they are killer power for sure!!!
I can always fire up another gen when I am doing the microwave...
I have the luxury of the breaker panel with the meters is just off the kitchen!!
easy to drop out a load till the microwave is done...
I use a natural gas stove... so that helps for cooking..
unless I need to pop some pop corn!! lol!!
some how I always crave pop corn during an power outage!! chuckle..
all I have to do for entertainment during an event is sit on the porch and watch others struggle with junk gens...
grin!!
just thinking about the next 7 days here in the mid west... the wx could get dicey they say..
I am ready! plenty of food and a plan for power..
and no trees in my yard!!


----------



## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

apparently my gen will putout 2600 -2800watt as this person tested the max output


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ratings for gens also need to be in a 24 hour rating with out over heating..
peak output is one thing... but heating of the parts is another..
peak power times 0.7 for 30% under would give you an ok rating.. with out testing with all the BIG test gear..
but if you are planning on something like an air con unit make the rating at 0.5 for 50%... that leaves you room for heat soak on the gen set..

so speed use an watt meter and do the site survey for the power you need.
or build a meter box for your utility panel.
something like on this page





GENERATOR_CONNECTION


GENERATOR CONNECTION PANEL METER BREAKER INLET



www.poustusa.com


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Ive run my eu2200 hooked to the house powering 2 fridge/freezers and 1 standing freezer over night a couple times. 

Last time I ran my EU2200 and EU1000 in parallel over night. My EU2000 played better in parallel with the EU1000.The EU2200 EU1000 combination keeps the EU1000 a bit over taxed. 

I might actually take my 2000 back from my father in law and give him my 2200. He has a Furnace and when the blower kicks on the 2200 handles the surge way better then 2000.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea you are better off not mixing the gens..
just saying..

in honda now a 2200 and a second 2200 is ok or a 2000 and second 2000 or 1000 and a second 1000...
you can mix the gens wattage...but it is not a good thing to do in the long run...
like you stated it runs the smaller gen at 100 %...
hard on the windings on a long run time unless it is winter... heat soak can happen easy...

how ever the little 1000i is a beast!! mine took a lashing on my system..
one little 1000i ran fridge, furnace, lights and all the tv and computer gear!! still was at 125 volts!!
it just would not run the freezer as well as all the other stuff...

so I started buying the 2000i units and sold the 1000i.
then for the home system I had 4 of the 2000i units.
now for summer 2019 I have switched over to the (4) 2200i gens..
and the 2000i units are in the fleet gear.


----------



## sportplumber (Nov 16, 2019)

Cristian said:


> One of the reasons I selected the Westinghouse WGEN1200DF for my backup generator is because it supposedly produces a "clean sine wave" of under 5% THD. Although I won't be running anything directly off the unit itself, I figure it can't hurt to have the power as "clean" as possible. Some people say this issue of a clean sine wave doesn't matter at all, and others say that some of their appliances won't even work unless the power is within certain "cleanliness" specs. Any ideas whether this issue of THD is one I should even be paying attention to? Is it worth using the sine wave as a buying criterion?
> 
> There's also another thing that has been bugging me for quite a while now, and which I can't find an answer for. The Westinghouse WGEN12000DF weighs in at around 350 pounds and costs around $2400. I had also been looking at another brand of generator, which also produces a really clean sine wave, the Pulsar PG12000B. But this one not only costs $999, but it weighs in at only 200. To confuse things more, the Pulsar PG15KVTWB weighs in at around 380 pounds and costs around $2700.
> 
> ...


 So I went through the exact same decision about a year ago. The WGEN1200DF and the Pulsar PG15KVTWB are 2 cylinder engines that are pressure lubricated with oil filters. Big difference VS the PG12000B which is a one cylinder splasher. I ended up buying 2 of the little Pulsars as they were available for less than $800 on sale at Newegg at the time. I figure for a bit less money I have a backup and given the China Syndrome, I may need one! I spoke with Westinghouse tech support a few times and finally found a tech that new something. He said the THD was in fact low due to the design. I dunno. These probably come out of the same Chinese factory, Ducar. 



 interesting video.

That Northstar with the Honda wasn't around then or I would've bought it in a heartbeat. I needed CARB and they didn't have it. That with a USCarb tri-fuel kit would be sweet.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup ducar makes lots of junk...
all the bucks they spent on that video..
lol if they put that in the production account they might get some where!!
they had the gear on low tables...
geese...
all the Kazan stuff in lean..
they would to have had lift tables even for the demo!!
and the wasted space in that assy area... wow!! not lean at all!!
laser etching with out guards...
yea I could ding them if they were here in the states! lol!!

not impressed with the mfg line up...
the names of some of the companies are not the same companies as they were in yesteryear.

today Westinghouse, and sooo many other companies are not the same as they were in 1960 usa..
they are a name only.. no longer usa... abandon names with expired patents..

hard to tell the fake stuff from the good stuff any more!
at least till you get it home and try to use it!!

kinda like the robex watch... or rollarex… 2 bucks at cost 50.00 on any new York street corner!!

it is getting harder for the usa consumer to find good items...


----------



## sportplumber (Nov 16, 2019)

Well Honda makes engines in China too. We can hope they QC them but how do we know?


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

sportplumber said:


> Well Honda makes engines in China too. We can hope they QC them but how do we know?


I believe it's Taiwan.


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

sportplumber said:


> Well Honda makes engines in China too. We can hope they QC them but how do we know?


The Chinese GX Hondas are not for U.S. consumption, though... We've received the excellent Thai GX motors for the last 30 years, and Japan GX motors before that.


----------

