# which generator?



## dmh41532

So we're looking at generators now that we live in the south for hurricanes. The biggest load is our fridge, surging at 1356 watts. the few fans, tv and lights by my math bring surging watts to 2200 watts. I don't know the running watts of the fridge, but im guessing around 800. would a 4000 starting watt be enough for this. I've been looking at the Wen, and generac 4000 watt inverters. I see champion has a 5000 running watt inverter too.


----------



## iowagold

choose a honda inverter unit!
I use the eu2200is units...
yea they are more money .. but you get what you pay for!!
see www.poustusa.com/


----------



## dmh41532

unfortunately, hondas are out of my price range. that's why I'm looking at wen, champion and generac.


----------



## iowagold

the bad part is the lower cost units are just that..
as a been there and done that...
save up and get a better gen set..
they hold resale value well.

wen is not that good.
champion the inverters are weak.. the numbers are really at 60% of the stickers

the generac is ok on the lower priced units..
but the inverter is not the same as the honda.. so count on 80% of rating as the real power.

Generac® iQ2000 1,600 Running 2,000 Starting Watt Gasoline Inverter Generator
Model Number: 6866 Menards® SKU: 2401208








Generac® iQ2000 1,600 Running 2,000 Starting Watt Gasoline Inverter Generator


The Generac® iQ2000 inverter portable generator is the quietest on the market, ensuring tailgaters, campers, and hunters, can savor the sounds of nature without compromising power. You will also benefit from its intuitive, fully functional LED dashboard that shows the generators status including...




www.menards.com




and a bit more these
Generac® GP3000i 2,300 Running 3,000 Starting Watt Gasoline Inverter Generator
Model Number: 7129 Menards® SKU: 2401206








Generac® GP3000i 2,300 Running 3,000 Starting Watt Gasoline Inverter Generator


The Generac® GP3000i inverter features new and advanced PowerRush™ technology to deliver over 50 percent more starting capacity for your RV essentials and other motor-driven equipment, allowing you to do more with less. Convenient RV-ready outlets enable an easy connection and quiet inverter...




www.menards.com


----------



## iowagold

the heck of it is the fuel consumption is way more on the other brands...
and the wave form is not the same as it is on the honda eu series..

I would save up and get the real deal..
it is an investment..
think of it like a car..
sure a Yugo will get you from point A to point B..
but why not have a Chevy?...
a bit more in price but you can get it serviced and get parts easy...

so that is why I say hold out for the Honda Eu series genset.
watch for the rebates and deals at





Honda Power Equipment|Generators, Lawn Mowers, Snow blowers, Tillers | Official Site


Honda offers powerful and durable generators, lawn mowers, tillers, trimmers, snow blowers, and water pumps for your home or business. Find model information, parts, accessories, service, and manuals for Honda generators, lawn mowers, and more.




powerequipment.honda.com




and they also have good financing deals as well!!


----------



## drmerdp

Used EU2000 or bite the bullet and get an EU2200.

I know you say its out of your price range, but maybe consider Honda Power Equipment Financing. The small inverter gen from the companies youve mentioned will only disappoint. All the same 79cc engines and a rated output that is slightly inflated.

The Generac GP3000i has a slightly larger engine then the EU2200 but for the same price... you dont get a chinese generator with questionable parts availability and a historically short life expectancy.

When it comes to large generators I'm an equal opportunity guy. The small ones.... Nothing else compares.


----------



## Coco

dmh41532 said:


> So we're looking at generators now that we live in the south for hurricanes. The biggest load is our fridge, surging at 1356 watts. the few fans, tv and lights by my math bring surging watts to 2200 watts. I don't know the running watts of the fridge, but im guessing around 800. would a 4000 starting watt be enough for this. I've been looking at the Wen, and generac 4000 watt inverters. I see champion has a 5000 running watt inverter too.


Well I live in south Louisiana and if you moving to the south you better have an air conditioner. No electricty and no AC after a hurricane is ****.


----------



## iowagold

Coco said:


> Well I live in south Louisiana and if you moving to the south you better have an air conditioner. No electricty and no AC after a hurricane is ****.


I agree!
fridge, freezer, and at least one ac unit to get rid of the humidity..
and if you use the eu2200i units you can add more of them later!
I have 4 of them here. so I can just use 1 or more in parallel with my special setup.





GENERATOR_CONNECTION


GENERATOR CONNECTION PANEL METER BREAKER INLET



www.poustusa.com


----------



## ToolLover

OK, so I hear the advice.
But.... I bought a Harbor Freight Generator in 2006.
Only needed it once in five or so years.
At the time it was the most KW for the buck.
It is still running without any problems today.
However, it has been taken care of and is in an outside permanant shelter.
So, I cannot knock a Harbor Freight generator even though it runs a Honda clone engine.
I sold it when I bought the 14KW Generac.
The Generac lasted 10 years before it died.
In the late 1980's my buddy bought the Honda ES6500. 
He got lung cancer, passed and now I have it.
I added a NG/Propane unit to it.
35 years and it still is a great generator.
Looks new and runs like a champ.
So, the advice is just that...advice.
But for sure if you are buying agenerator for a standby power giver, you had better buy a good one to start with.


----------



## speedy2019

Would a 2000watt gen be enough to start a fridge and/or freezer? Im guessing you couldn't run much else at the same time.


----------



## crabjoe

I only recently picked up the Wen 56235i and for the price, it's a decent generator. I did test it to see how many watts it will output without it overloading and based on my watt meter, it was good at 1850 watts. I let it run for like 30 mins like that and it had no issues. I will say that when in ECO mode and it has to ramp up quickly, it throws out a puff of smoke and even when it's just running steady, it smells like it's running rich.

Oh.. I've got years of experience with the Honda EU2000. That things been abused and it still runs like a champ!

You really can't knock Honda generator outside of cost. With the WEN costing less than 1/2 and rated higher in output than the current EU2200, I couldn't pass it up. Band based on my short testing, it does output what they advertise. I just don't know how reliable it'll be.. but it does use a cloned Yamaha 79cc.


----------



## JohnNY

dmh41532 said:


> So we're looking at generators now that we live in the south for hurricanes. The biggest load is our fridge, surging at 1356 watts. the few fans, tv and lights by my math bring surging watts to 2200 watts. I don't know the running watts of the fridge, but im guessing around 800. would a 4000 starting watt be enough for this. I've been looking at the Wen, and generac 4000 watt inverters. I see champion has a 5000 running watt inverter too.


Surprised it hasn't been asked, but whats your
1.Budget? 
2.What weight class (if you say it like that) because If you can't move it, its gonna be no use to you no matter how good it is.
3.What fuel do you want to run on? Gasoline/LP/NG? 

I would rather have room to grow, demand wise. You never know when the wife wants that double door commercial fridge. Lol



Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


----------



## iowagold

speedy2019 said:


> Would a 2000watt gen be enough to start a fridge and/or freezer? Im guessing you couldn't run much else at the same time.


I can run the furnace, 1 fridge, 1 freezer, and all the inter net gear, and lights off of less than 2000 watts.
or one honda eu2200i.
so for winter months I only run the one unit.
I lock on the furnace fan during the run on generator to help smooth the air temps.
they are late model over under fridge and chest on the deep freeze.

summer is a different thing... air con is a BIG power thing...


----------



## iowagold

JohnNY said:


> Surprised it hasn't been asked, but whats your
> 1.Budget?
> 2.What weight class (if you say it like that) because If you can't move it, its gonna be no use to you no matter how good it is.
> 3.What fuel do you want to run on? Gasoline/LP/NG?
> 
> I would rather have room to grow, demand wise. You never know when the wife wants that double door commercial fridge. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


you are better off with the deep freeze.. they take less power!
lol and a lock on the fridge when the power is out!! LOL!!
I always say set up the gen as tri fuel!!
that way you select what you can get for fuel during a crisis ..
it will be hard to get parts fast during well lets go there..
a pandemic!! lol!!
so if you have the parts at least on hand. then you can convert..
but the best is to have every thing on the gens and all the system parts as well as spare parts.
and make sure you are covered for at least a year of hard parts. oil sparkplugs air filter etc.
always have one spare gen set ready as well!!
that way you can have some power for lights if the primary gen is down for repair.

budget will depend on what your comfort level is...
I was raised on basic camping.. a bag and a tent.. no air mattress etc.
but these days I like the basics, heat, cool, water, and lights, and basic entertainment.
last watts chart was 1200.
but that has changed as I run a few less things now.


----------



## dmh41532

Coco said:


> Well I live in south Louisiana and if you moving to the south you better have an air conditioner. No electricty and no AC after a hurricane is ****.


oh we have several window a/c just in case our central air breaks, one is a 6000 btw that will easily cool a bedroom. i can't imagine going say 10 days with out it. we moved to naples after irma, and people said it was out about 10 days, and it doesn't start to cool down until maybe january.


----------



## dmh41532

JohnNY said:


> Surprised it hasn't been asked, but whats your
> 1.Budget?
> 2.What weight class (if you say it like that) because If you can't move it, its gonna be no use to you no matter how good it is.
> 3.What fuel do you want to run on? Gasoline/LP/NG?
> 
> I would rather have room to grow, demand wise. You never know when the wife wants that double door commercial fridge. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


it was around $1,000. we actually settled with a champion inverter. 6250 surge, 5000 running. this thing is pretty light. a lot lighter than i remember 5000 watt generators being. I can't believe how quite it is. I asked her if she wanted a larger one to run anything else beside the fridge tv, a small ac and some lights. she said nope. we're also renting this house. so no big appliances...yet


----------



## Franky

Good evening I am new to this forum an super new with generator I received this generator ( pic below ) only pic I have , so my question is does anyone the brand of it an it’s capacity?


----------



## JohnNY

Franky said:


> Good evening I am new to this forum an super new with generator I received this generator ( pic below ) only pic I have , so my question is does anyone the brand of it an it’s capacity?
> View attachment 7790


Its a generac wheelhouse 5500 running watts and 8500 surge watts. 5 gallon removable fuel tank (take ot off and bring the entire tank to gas station). 45.8 amps at 120 volts and 22.9 at 240 volts
Heres some info links : Generac WheelHouse 5500 Generator Information | Homesteady


----------



## Franky

@JohnNY thank you


----------



## JohnNY

Your very welcome. Btw check above for .pdf manual for gen again it didnt upload before correftly


----------



## PiscBc2

Saw generator section and wanted to see how many appliances mine would run. Need, frig, AC, (window unit) TV, some lights and small appliances.

I've heard some good but mostly bad about it
It's a ETQ (Eastern Tools & Equipment) 296cc 60HZ Rated 4:50KW @ 3600rpm Idle 3600rpm
2-20A 120 outlets and 1-25A 120 outlet; AC120/240 20A
It has key starter but starter has cracked housing so use the pull cord that will brake your hand if you don't depress at the right time. It is Diesel.

Depending on feedback, I'd like to buy starter motor but so far no luck with that.


----------



## iowagold

PiscBc2 said:


> Saw generator section and wanted to see how many appliances mine would run. Need, frig, AC, (window unit) TV, some lights and small appliances.
> 
> I've heard some good but mostly bad about it
> It's a ETQ (Eastern Tools & Equipment) 296cc 60HZ Rated 4:50KW @ 3600rpm Idle 3600rpm
> 2-20A 120 outlets and 1-25A 120 outlet; AC120/240 20A
> It has key starter but starter has cracked housing so use the pull cord that will brake your hand if you don't depress at the right time. It is Diesel.
> 
> Depending on feedback, I'd like to buy starter motor but so far no luck with that.


what is the exact model number??


----------



## PiscBc2

iowagold, it's 178F


----------



## iowagold

found a manual maybe




__





ETQ 170F Owner's Manual (Page 9 of 89) | ManualsLib







www.manualslib.com




it also has a parts list.
do you have a pix of the generator?
depending on if the 4.5 kw is peak or rated power..
lets say it is peak..
maybe 3200 to 3500 watts is enough to run several things.
I would use a watt meter setup to do a site survey on the house first..
see this page for what I did for my meter and connection setup for 4 eu series honda gens with links and pix.
pm me if you need help in building one.





GENERATOR_CONNECTION


GENERATOR CONNECTION PANEL METER BREAKER INLET



www.poustusa.com




this link is for the main generator section





HONDA_GENERATOR


HONDA_GENERATOR



www.poustusa.com


----------



## PiscBc2

Wow, what a wealth of information...I will take some pics. and post them. I have a female connector which is tied to main B-panel. Installed by electricians who did electrical work on house but not sure where to connect the end going to the generator. 
Looking at some of the links you provided, they didn't leave me with much of a set up.
According to them, I just plug the generator into the wall receptacle and what circuit I need in the B panel will be hot.
I was concerned about utility personnel working on community lines dealing with,"back feed" That might be the wrong words to describe it.

Thank you for all the links and willingness to help me in setting everything up.


----------



## iowagold

PiscBc2 said:


> Wow, what a wealth of information...I will take some pics. and post them. I have a female connector which is tied to main B-panel. Installed by electricians who did electrical work on house but not sure where to connect the end going to the generator.
> Looking at some of the links you provided, they didn't leave me with much of a set up.
> According to them, I just plug the generator into the wall receptacle and what circuit I need in the B panel will be hot.
> I was concerned about utility personnel working on community lines dealing with,"back feed" That might be the wrong words to describe it.
> 
> Thank you for all the links and willingness to help me in setting everything up.


no back feed with the design.
the inputs are the Pomona jacks.
there is a dedicated feed from the inlet panel to the main breaker panel inside with an manual interlock.
the jacks on the inlet panel are for rv when on gen set if needed.


----------



## PiscBc2

Okay...I've taken pictures to send.... am I allowed to join the Honda generator group because mine is a Eastern Tools & Equipment generator?


----------



## iowagold

PiscBc2 said:


> Okay...I've taken pictures to send.... am I allowed to join the Honda generator group because mine is a Eastern Tools & Equipment generator?


sure there is a section for other brands.


----------



## PiscBc2

Alright...Thanks


----------



## JohnNY

Bask2004 said:


> Let me also recommend WEN generators to your attention. You can get full information here: link removed


I was looking at the little 2k camp site ones of those


----------



## PiscBc2

Bask2004 said:


> Let me also recommend WEN generators to your attention. You can get full information here: Link removed


*Bask2004,* Thanks for the link...will look at them.


----------



## agksimon

dmh41532 said:


> So we're looking at generators now that we live in the south for hurricanes. The biggest load is our fridge, surging at 1356 watts. the few fans, tv and lights by my math bring surging watts to 2200 watts. I don't know the running watts of the fridge, but im guessing around 800. would a 4000 starting watt be enough for this. I've been looking at the Wen, and generac 4000 watt inverters. I see champion has a 5000 running watt inverter too.


I had the Champion #100519 (5000 watt running) generator and for the money, it can't be beat. Never had any issues with it, starts every time and ran perfectly. It took care of our whole house. 
I gave it to my daughter's family and replaced it with the Champion #100520 which is the same, only 7000 watts running and electric start. It's been phenomenal.


----------



## Old man here

agksimon said:


> I had the Champion #100519 (5000 watt running) generator and for the money, it can't be beat. Never had any issues with it, starts every time and ran perfectly. It took care of our whole house.
> I gave it to my daughter's family and replaced it with the Champion #100520 which is the same, only 7000 watts running and electric start. It's been phenomenal.


I agree with you on the Champion generators. Quality product at a great price. I have the #100519 as well. It does everything it is rated for. It's my second Champion generator.


----------



## billt

FTurner90 said:


> *I think that nowadays it is far better to buy electric cars,* and I am not speaking only about tesla. I like Elon Musk as a businessman and as a human being. To be honest, I have a tesla model 3, but I don't want to say that everyone must go and buy a Tesla car. *I mean you should pay attention to electric cars as these are the future cars.* The only problem with this kind of car is related to the charging process. *Pretty often the power goes off, and you can not charge the car which means the next day you can not use it. On the other hand, I already found the solution which consists of installing a home generator.* Thankfully I stumbled on the site of the company The Tool Scout. After checking their site I understood that having a home generator is absolutely necessary in my case.


Doesn't this defeat the purpose of owning an electric car in the first place? Think about it. If you require running a gasoline or propane powered generator in order to recharge it's battery pack, what are you accomplishing by going electric? You are simply proving the false concept of electric cars in a more direct fashion.

For example, where does the power that comes into your home through your meter, come from in the first place? It's more than likely from a coal, natural gas, or petroleum fired power plant. In fact it's over 63%. In 2019, the *nuclear* share of total *U.S. electricity* generating capacity was only 9%. The total U.S. conventional hydro electric generation was only about 6.6%. Renewable electric power, (solar and wind), was only around 10%.

Now if you add those numbers up, the total doesn't come to 100%. So they obviously vary somewhat from location to location. But you get the point. *If you need to burn fossil fuel to charge the batteries of an electric vehicle, it's anything but, "green".* Especially after you factor in how clean and efficient today's modern gasoline powered cars and trucks are from a pollution standpoint. Then there is the petroleum used to manufacture the batteries.... And recycle them. 

Electric vehicles are basically nothing more than a feel good, "inconvenient truth".... As our buddy Al Gore would say. Right now these high end Tesla's are nothing more than high priced Jay Leno toys. Try driving one across the country with your family. Like Clark Griswold did in, "Vacation", and it's going to take you forever to get there. And you'll be no more "green" doing it, than the guy who drove his Ford F-350 Power Stroke Diesel, Crew Cab Dually.


----------



## JohnNY

billt said:


> Doesn't this defeat the purpose of owning an electric car in the first place? Think about it. If you require running a gasoline or propane powered generator in order to recharge it's battery pack, what are you accomplishing by going electric? You are simply proving the false concept of electric cars in a more direct fashion.
> 
> For example, where does the power that comes into your home through your meter, come from in the first place? It's more than likely from a coal, natural gas, or petroleum fired power plant. In fact it's over 63%. In 2019, the *nuclear* share of total *U.S. electricity* generating capacity was only 9%. The total U.S. conventional hydro electric generation was only about 6.6%. Renewable electric power, (solar and wind), was only around 10%.
> 
> Now if you add those numbers up, the total doesn't come to 100%. So they obviously vary somewhat from location to location. But you get the point. *If you need to burn fossil fuel to charge the batteries of an electric vehicle, it's anything but, "green".* Especially after you factor in how clean and efficient today's modern gasoline powered cars and trucks are from a pollution standpoint. Then there is the petroleum used to manufacture the batteries.... And recycle them.
> 
> Electric vehicles are basically nothing more than a feel good, "inconvenient truth".... As our buddy Al Gore would say. Right now these high end Tesla's are nothing more than high priced Jay Leno toys. Try driving one across the country with your family. Like Clark Griswold did in, "Vacation", and it's going to take you forever to get there. And you'll be no more "green" doing it, than the guy who drove his Ford F-350 Power Stroke Diesel, Crew Cab Dually.


Could not of said that better. So true


----------



## Robh

Well this thread has turned a bit.. Most of what is said is true, with one exception. Fossil fuel power plants produce a baseline amount of (potential) power whether it's used or not. This is why some of them offer time-of-day discounts. Until we reach some kind of critical mass, it actually may not burn any more fossil fuel to charge a Tesla or two. When we get into the millions though, that's another story.

Obviously a personal generator will burn fuel to charge an EV, as the post above illustrates.


----------



## tabora

FTurner90 said:


> On the other hand, I already found the solution which consists of installing a home generator.





billt said:


> Doesn't this defeat the purpose of owning an electric car in the first place? Think about it. If you require running a gasoline or propane powered generator in order to recharge it's battery pack, what are you accomplishing by going electric?


It sure raises valid questions... Especially considering that the average 5KW portable generator emits more CO than 450 cars...


----------



## billt

tabora said:


> It sure raises valid questions... Especially considering that the average 5KW portable generator emits more CO than 450 cars...


When I worked for McCulloch Corporation in the 90's, we had one of our chain saws, (2-stroke), analyzed for emissions. It was determined that one tankful of 32 to 1 mix, (I'm guessing at or around 8 ounces), put out more hydrocarbons than a Toyota Corolla, driving from New York City to San Diego, California. And this was a mid 90's automobile. Today a new Corolla could most likely lap the planet and emit less.


----------



## Robh

450 cars! Interesting. So if I'm doing my math right, running a generator in a closed garage will kill you in seconds compared to minutes of an idling car? I can't believe there is such disparity between those numbers!


----------



## billt

Robh said:


> 450 cars! Interesting. So if I'm doing my math right, running a generator in a closed garage will kill you in seconds compared to minutes of an idling car? I can't believe there is such disparity between those numbers!


I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, or serious?? But if you're being the latter, you can't make this into a medical comparison. A human body cannot absorb, or get rid of CO, at the same rate as a generator, or any other piece of high polluting, small engine power equipment, can put it out.


----------



## Ground Fault

EU2200I with Co-Minder: "Call for price" Hint: $999. Cureton and Son Equipment Rentals and Sales, Nederland TX (409)722-5354 Honda Power Equipment EU2200i with CO-MINDER™ for sale in Nederland, TX. Cureton & Son, Inc. Nederland, TX (409) 722-5354 (curetonandson.com)

EU3000is Backordered, but $2,035 "when they come in"

I called around and looked around the net for two years, debating buying my EU2000. I found the best pricing was not on the net but in an equipment rental place right here close to me. You only have so much time left on this earth. Stop wasting it like I did by overthinking this: Get one of these, put it behind you and move on with your life. Time is more valuable than money. _How much time is an inferior generator going to steal from you in its lifetime?_

Buy a generator: Buy once, cry only once? Not likely.

Buy a HONDA generator: Buy once, Cry ONLY once.


----------



## JohnNY

Ground Fault said:


> EU2200I with Co-Minder: "Call for price" Hint: $999. Cureton and Son Equipment Rentals and Sales, Nederland TX (409)722-5354 Honda Power Equipment EU2200i with CO-MINDER for sale in Nederland, TX. Cureton & Son, Inc. Nederland, TX (409) 722-5354 (curetonandson.com)
> 
> EU3000is Backordered, but $2,035 "when they come in"
> 
> I called around and looked around the net for two years, debating buying my EU2000. I found the best pricing was not on the net but in an equipment rental place right here close to me. You only have so much time left on this earth. Stop wasting it like I did by overthinking this: Get one of these, put it behind you and move on with your life. Time is more valuable than money. How much time is an inferior generator going to steal from you in its lifetime?
> 
> Buy a generator: Buy once, cry once?
> 
> Buy a HONDA generator: Buy once, Cry ONLY once.


NOW thats a post knocking us back on the rails of the origonal question. Good job. I was seeing this start to turn into a pissing match. 
So to keep this going on track. I happened to score a Kipor IG3000 inverter from a person on Offeruo for $50 (non-running) after maybe an hour of draining the old fuel, checking the carb, (clean), oil and dropping a good battery in that I had, it fired right up. I have since changed the oil, put a new after market carb $27, OE plastic muffler grill $20, and new case bolts $4. This machine is quiet, has a cat muffler, so the exhause doesnt stink like an old lawnmower and takes and adjusts to anyload I put on it (of course within rating) I also have a Kipor IG200P, which is there little suitcase 2k watt, it was like the ig3000 barely used. I ended up paying $200 for that with out getting it to start, which was a gamble of course. Turned out to be the ON/off switch had dirt in it. Youtube video fix and it fired right up. lol.


----------



## Robh

agksimon said:


> I had the Champion #100519 (5000 watt running) generator and for the money, it can't be beat. Never had any issues with it, starts every time and ran perfectly. It took care of our whole house.
> I gave it to my daughter's family and replaced it with the Champion #100520 which is the same, only 7000 watts running and electric start. It's been phenomenal.





Old man here said:


> I agree with you on the Champion generators. Quality product at a great price. I have the #100519 as well. It does everything it is rated for. It's my second Champion generator.


Question for you: Is the Champion quoted 69 dB best case or worst case? Is that figure at 100% no-eco, or 25% with eco turned on? I was always a bit fuzzy when I see that spec listed on any generator. That's right on the borderline of what I can use in my neighborhood.


----------



## noviwinger

Though I do agree with having a generator with a built in inverter is a good and desirable thing. Having a generator without an inverter is better than not having anything at all. I purchased a Champion a few years ago and I am very happy with my purchase. I am saving now to purchase a whole home generator which will run on Natural Gas and have an inverter. My decision to purchase a generator without an invertor was a balance of costs of the generator and the loss of food cause by the power outage. The last power outage I had before I purchase the generator I loss $1500 in food and medication. Since purchasing the generator I have not loss any food, though I have had 3 long term (more than 8 hours) power outages. So the value of the Champion generator has already paid for itself.


----------



## Old man here

Robh said:


> Question for you: Is the Champion quoted 69 dB best case or worst case? Is that figure at 100% no-eco, or 25% with eco turned on? I was always a bit fuzzy when I see that spec listed on any generator. That's right on the borderline of what I can use in my neighborhood.


I don't have a meter to check the sound level. I suspect Champion rates their sound level according to industry standards, but I don't know what those are.
You can go to their website and ask for this information on their question and answer page for that model. Also read through the Q and A section. Someone may have already asked this question.
I do know that it is really quiet with no load and not too bad with 3000 watts of electric heaters.


----------



## Ground Fault

Now I don't want to get off on a website specifications rant here, but ask yourself, "If what has been reported in this thread about any particular manufacturer's stated power output being as much as 40% FRAUDULENT, then how the heck would anyone trust that CHAMPION or any other manufacturer would be truthful about the noise that their units make? You can't trust any of them, but you don't need a full-on audiometric sound testing program either to get an idea of how loud they are. FREE sound meter apps are in the App Store. Are they of sound engineering standard and quality? Not likely. But hey, somebody that's got one of the units in question can download two or three, average the readings, report to us what they found and be done with it. I bet between the 2-3 apps they will at least tell you the difference between wwwaaaaahhh!!!! and WWWWAAAAAAHHHH!!!! Good enough for the girls I go with.


----------



## JohnNY

Ground Fault said:


> Now I don't want to get off on a website specifications rant here, but ask yourself, "If what has been reported in this thread about any particular manufacturers stated power output being as much as 40% FRAUDULENT, then how the heck would anyone trust that CHAMPION or any other manufacturer would be truthful about the noise that their units make? You can't trust any of them, but you don't need a full-on audiometric sound testing program either to get an idea of how loud they are. FREE sound meter apps are in the App Store. Are they of sound engineering standard and quality? Not likely. But hey, somebody that's got one of the units in question can download two or three, average the readings, report to us what they found and be done with it. I bet between the 2-3 apps they will at least tell you the difference between wwwaaaaahhh!!!! and WWWWAAAAAAHHHH!!!! Good enough for the girls I go with.


That was great and so true. Does anyone truly know by ear and say ,"hey that generator is louder then 75db's"? No. To me I know whats loud and whats not. I know a Honda is probably the most quiet, BUT Im not buying a 4k unit that at the end of the day I can do with a $600 coal train. If mine is running then most likely my neighbors are also and their's and no quieter then mine. In the end im putting food and heat and safety over DB's.


----------



## billt

You are going to run into the same problem now, regardless if you're buying generators, guns, or ammunition. All are selling faster than crystal meth in a low income housing project. This regardless of brand. Generators are selling faster than they can be produced. The higher wattage models with the most features, are selling the fastest. Seems as though everyone and their brother is trying to prepare for the apocalypse.


----------



## JohnNY

billt said:


> You are going to run into the same problem now, regardless if you're buying generators, guns, or ammunition. All are selling faster than crystal meth in a low income housing project. This regardless of brand. Generators are selling faster than they can be produced. The higher wattage models with the most features, are selling the fastest. Seems as though everyone and their brother is trying to prepare for the apocalypse.


That, and the increase in crazy storms/hurricanes. Also the electrical system near me has NEVER been worse. Since Sandy, if we get a breeze the lights pulse at times. Pathetic bandaide repairs done to get power up and running and our local utilty which is now PSEG ONLY comes back to fix them with another bandaide when the first failed. So EVERYONE near me pretty much owns a gen now.


----------



## tabora

Robh said:


> 450 cars! Interesting. So if I'm doing my math right, running a generator in a closed garage will kill you in seconds compared to minutes of an idling car? I can't believe there is such disparity between those numbers!


The references are there... Check it out yourself. The difference between an EFI, catalytic converter equipped multi-cylinder engine and a single cylinder, air-cooled, carbureted engine is truly astounding. There have been a number of studies over the years. Here's the full CPSC presentation on generator CO safety: https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/PresentationSAE_SETC.pdf

Honda has been leading the way adding CO Monitoring to their generators: CO-MINDER | Honda Generators | Carbon Monoxide Detection System


----------



## iowagold

y3k is here for sure.
quiet is a good thing!
and some also think a dark house is a good thing during an outage.
for me i light it up big time all of the time.
and a secure quiet gen shack is a great idea...


----------



## iowagold

tabora said:


> The references are there... Check it out yourself. The difference between an EFI, catalytic converter equipped multi-cylinder engine and a single cylinder, air-cooled, carbureted engine is truly astounding. There have been a number of studies over the years. Here's the full CPSC presentation on generator CO safety: https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/PresentationSAE_SETC.pdf
> 
> Honda has been leading the way adding CO Monitoring to their generators: CO-MINDER | Honda Generators | Carbon Monoxide Detection System


good post tab!
yea a honda gen on ng or lp is super low on emissions.
that is what we found in the lab here.
that is why i have done mine to ng as primary fuel in the tri fuel setup.
but i also have the other choices as well.


----------



## Robh

I'm not doubting the stats, I just didn't know it was so much. It means if that Tesla uses a generator just once to charge it, he's blown through all of his carbon savings in one year. 'Might as well get a regular car.


----------



## iowagold

yup.
and it cost a carbon foot print to make manufacture and deliver solar panels as well as a wind turbine.
basic "no free lunch" kinda deal..


----------



## JohnNY

Come on...nudge, nudge,. .....back on topic. Lol
The only thing you need yo know about there exhaust is that they will both kill you with there emissions


----------



## iowagold

speedy2019 said:


> Would a 2000watt gen be enough to start a fridge and/or freezer? Im guessing you couldn't run much else at the same time.


in short yea speed!
2000 watt is plenty to run every thing in my home in winter time!
choose your fridge and freezer well..
take time to research as well!
a killawatt meter is a cool tool to have.
you can look at an appliance during start and run to help make the decision on if the appliance will work for your system.


----------



## Todd_B

Ground Fault said:


> EU2200I with Co-Minder: "Call for price" Hint: $999. Cureton and Son Equipment Rentals and Sales, Nederland TX (409)722-5354 Honda Power Equipment EU2200i with CO-MINDER™ for sale in Nederland, TX. Cureton & Son, Inc. Nederland, TX (409) 722-5354 (curetonandson.com)
> 
> EU3000is Backordered, but $2,035 "when they come in"
> 
> I called around and looked around the net for two years, debating buying my EU2000. I found the best pricing was not on the net but in an equipment rental place right here close to me. You only have so much time left on this earth. Stop wasting it like I did by overthinking this: Get one of these, put it behind you and move on with your life. Time is more valuable than money. _How much time is an inferior generator going to steal from you in its lifetime?_
> 
> Buy a generator: Buy once, cry only once? Not likely.
> 
> Buy a HONDA generator: Buy once, Cry ONLY once.


A big plus to Honda EU2200i - it's good for the money, but again if your budget allows you to spend $2K then 3000s is your choice I guess


----------



## billt

Robh said:


> Question for you: *Is the Champion quoted 69 dB best case or worst case?* Is that figure at 100% no-eco, or 25% with eco turned on? I was always a bit fuzzy when I see that spec listed on any generator. That's right on the borderline of what I can use in my neighborhood.


The fact is, small engine powered equipment, ALL small engine powered equipment is LOUD. A running single cylinder, 6 HP 4-stroke is louder than a 645 HP, V-10 Viper. A 2-stroke is MUCH louder, and stinks more in the process. Yes, some are louder than others. And several of these inverter generators that, "come all wrapped up inside a plastic box" are substantially quieter. But the reality is they comprise a very small part of the overall small engine power equipment market.

Large, high wattage generators, power blowers, hedge trimmers, weed eaters, chain saws, lawn mowers, snow blowers, ALL make noise. A LOT of noise. A few "DB's" here or there isn't going to matter. In this regard they're a lot like guns..... ANY audiologist will tell you, *you should wear hearing protection when running ANY of them, regardless of their "DB rating".*

And once you do that, it really doesn't matter how loud they are. They'll all irritate the neighbors the same way. And the further away they are, the less they'll hear and have to complain about. In that regard WHEN you run them is more important than HOW LOUD they are. No one likes to hear that crap at 6:00 AM. I don't care where you live.


----------



## Robh

I'm not worried about hearing protection for me. I'll be inside. I'm worried about the legality hence my question. Subjective answers are irrelevant.


----------



## Old man here

Robh said:


> Question for you: Is the Champion quoted 69 dB best case or worst case? Is that figure at 100% no-eco, or 25% with eco turned on? I was always a bit fuzzy when I see that spec listed on any generator. That's right on the borderline of what I can use in my neighborhood.


I appears to be at 100%.
Look at the db ratings between the inverter and standard generator.


----------



## JohnNY

This DB rating conversation is absolute NON-Sense. 1st, Please tell me when you are going to tell the difference between db's....the answer YOUR NOT.
2nd when are you going to care about the difference between 10 db's ....the answer YOUR NOT.
These "ratings" are only posted as another tool for label readers and folks who think they are comparing true numbers and for manufactures to try to beat each other's sales by creating fake unproven numbers. They are just like the fake energy star labels on appliances (proven inacurate)or HP ratings(proven inacurate) So many factors go into creating those specs as does noise. Mechanical Engine noise, exhaust noise ect. So bottom line ANY combustion engine is noisy, loud, disruptive ........but a HONDA......thats proven and they do it well


----------



## billt

JohnNY said:


> This DB rating conversation is absolute NON-Sense. 1st, Please tell me when you are going to tell the difference between db's....the answer YOUR NOT.
> 2nd when are you going to care about the difference between 10 db's ....the answer YOUR NOT.
> These "ratings" are only posted as another tool for label readers and folks who think they are comparing true numbers and for manufactures to try to beat each other's sales by creating fake unproven numbers. They are just like the fake energy star labels on appliances (proven inacurate)or HP ratings(proven inacurate) So many factors go into creating those specs as does noise. Mechanical Engine noise, exhaust noise ect. So bottom line ANY combustion engine is noisy, loud, disruptive ........but a HONDA......thats proven and they do it well


THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ X 100


----------



## Robh

I can’t believe what I’m reading. There are a lot of people proud of ignorance. If you feel you don’t have something valuable to say, don’t say anything.


----------



## Ground Fault

YEAH! What HE said! Can't believe some people. SHEESH!!! ONLY POST WHEN YOU HAVE INFORMATION THAT WILL ENRICH AND EDUCATE THIS COMMUNITY!!!

Now, let's get back to solving the problems and issues of generator ownership: So generator manufacturers lie when publishing their sound specifications. But what can the everyman do about it? Well, first, maybe force them all to adopt and strictly adhere to a _universal, absolute and irrevocable audiometric baseline_. A baseline that is not open to interpretation. Here is a sound level theorem that I am going to stick my neck out and propose. Further, I am going to really risk my credibility and postulate that this metric MAY be applicable to _all generators_,_ regardless of manufacturer or country of origin._ Ultimately, I believe that it MAY BE THE MOST ACCURATE GENERATOR BASELINE METRIC EVER PROPOSED, and may settle the arguments put forth in this thread. Lastly, I contend that it is truer than all other generator manufacturer's current sound specifications and as such, and upon its adoption, I will retain the undisputed moral high ground on the lot of them. In fact, like Dolby, I may be able to charge them a licensing fee for its use. Suspenseful drum roll please:

_100% of all generators produce baseline sound levels of 0Db at 0% load @ 0rpm._

I'm going out to the shop to re-test mine right now, even though I have observed the same results every time in the past. If you have time today please pull yours out and test its sound level under these same conditions (allowing for ambient sound levels, of course). If our findings concur, I respectively request that this community forevermore refer to this seminal scientific discovery as...

*GROUND FAULT'S 1ST LAW OF GENERATOR AUDIOMETRICS *


----------



## Old man here

Ground Fault said:


> YEAH! What HE said! Can't believe some of these people. SHEESH!!! Let's get back to reality: Here is a sound level theorem that I am going to stick my neck out and propose. Further, I am going to really risk my credibility and postulate that this metric MAY be true of _all generators_,_ regardless of manufacturer or country of origin._ Ultimately, I believe that it MAY BE THE MOST ACCURATE GENERATOR METRIC EVER WRITTEN, and may settle the arguments put forth in this thread. Drum roll please:
> 
> _100% of all generators produce sound levels of 0Db at 0% load @ 0rpm._
> 
> I'm going out there to test it right now. If you have time today please pull yours out and test its sound level under these same conditions (allowing for ambient sound levels, of course). If our finding concur, I respectively request that we forevermore refer to this discovery as
> 
> *TONYKARTER'S 1ST LAW OF GENERATOR AUDIOMETRICS *


----------



## Ground Fault

Here, send me $2 and I'll sell you back the minute of your time you invested reading that post. PM me for my mailing address...


----------



## JohnNY

@Ground Fault  perfect


----------



## Jackruf

I have always enjoyed this forum for its civility and sharing of information. There is no shortage on the internet to find arguments. Let’s not make this forum one of them.


----------



## JohnNY

No we're good. To get upset over this would really be silly for sure


----------



## billt

Robh said:


> I can’t believe what I’m reading. There are a lot of people proud of ignorance. If you feel you don’t have something valuable to say, don’t say anything.


We had something to say, and it was valuable. It's all bull$h!t. You may not agree we what we said, anymore then we agree with all this "DB" nonsense..... Now, on a more positive note, while I'm still so desperately worried about all of this. I'm going to go check the yellow energy consumption sticker on my water heater. And hope and pray that little black arrow is more on the left side, than the right. That way I'll sleep better tonight.


----------



## JohnNY

billt said:


> We had something to say, and it was valuable. It's all bull$h!t. You may not agree we what we said, anymore then we agree with all this "DB" nonsense..... Now, on a more positive note, while I'm still so desperately worried about all of this. I'm going to go check the yellow energy consumption sticker on my water heater. And hope and pray that little black arrow is more on the left side, than the right. That way I'll sleep better tonight.


Holy Shi$ im dieing laughing.


----------



## billt

Typical liberal "Green" thinking.... A diesel generator running an electric car charging station. Just when you think you've seen it all.


----------



## Old man here

billt said:


> Typical liberal "Green" thinking.... A diesel generator running an electric car charging station. Just when you think you've seen it all.


Is this setup currently approved by the present tree hugger admin?


----------



## JohnNY

billt said:


> Typical liberal "Green" thinking.... A diesel generator running an electric car charging station. Just when you think you've seen it all.


That is so classic. Approved by Al Gore and John Kerry.


----------



## jackgray

You can be right, but I think 4000 watt generators are not enough to meet today's needs. So, I recommend 10000 watt generators.


----------



## jackgray

Today, 10,000-watt generators are everyone’s requirement, but when you have one, you’d appreciate it. 10,000 watts is sufficient power to run RV accessories, large appliances, and even power food trucks during a power outage. Durostar DS10000E is an excellent choice. In addition, Pulsar PG10000, DuroMax XP10000EH, and All Power America APGG10000 are also good choices and all these provide an excellent support to house during power losses.


----------



## LaSwamp

jackgray said:


> You can be right, but I think 4000 watt generators are not enough to meet today's needs. So, I recommend 10000 watt generators.


It depends on need. Not everyone needs something as beefy as a 10 kw generator. They provide a lot of power, but they also use a lot more fuel. I got by for five days after Ida with a 3.5 kw inverter. It wasn't the same as house power, naturally, but it was plenty to power two fridge/freezers and a window shaker, plus lighting.


----------



## OrlyP

^ Agree. I have a 4.5kW gen and it’s enough to power two ductless inverter ACs, an inverter refrigerator, lights, my servers/network/internet, two laptops & a PC, and several other misc. items. But I do have a couple of shower heaters cut out at the breaker panel designated as non-essential. 

Everyone could do more with a larger gen, but there’s always a hefty price tag attached to it. In my location, the sweet spot is the 3000-3500W generator. Going higher than that and there’ll be an exponential increase in cost.


----------



## billt

I think fuel costs for a large, (or larger) generator over a smaller one, are really a non issue. Just think about it. If you drive a full size pickup or SUV 10,000+ miles a year, what are you spending on fuel?.... Now compare that to what you will, (or might), spend on fuel to run a 8,000 watt, (or larger), generator for that same year.

It amounts to almost nothing in comparison. Most people buy generators as a "just in case" standby solution in the event of an outage. Honestly I have not used mine yet for that.... Thankfully. Even in the deep south in hurricane country, if you run it say 2 weeks in a year, how much more is the fuel bill going to be compared to a smaller, (2,000 watt unit)? Perhaps a tank of gas for your pickup, if that. I'm just not seeing fuel consumption as a deal breaker, in exchange for having the peace of mind of running a larger, more capable unit. Not to mention the larger, more capable unit doesn't have to work so hard.


----------



## iowagold

well it also depends if you are happy in a yugo or a hummer.
some like to go in style.

same on gen setups.
some want to be able to run every thing...

most of us just want a few things to stay up.
basics like lights, tv, internet, fridge, freezer, microwave.
and some have sump pumps, well pumps and sewer pumps

and then there is the folks who are thinking long term solutions like grid down for days weeks months.
that is where fuel consumption enters in for storage and availability.

plan the backup system for your location is the best advice.
take a look at what others have done and custom make your own setup.
and always have a plan A, B, C at the min.
you can do this in steps, so you do not miss the cash if you buy a few parts each pay check.
and build when you have enough parts to do a step in the plan.
and always think spare parts on hand.
and paper operator and service and parts manuals.


----------



## LaSwamp

billt said:


> I think fuel costs for a large, (or larger) generator over a smaller one, are really a non issue. Just think about it. If you drive a full size pickup or SUV 10,000+ miles a year, what are you spending on fuel?.... Now compare that to what you will, (or might), spend on fuel to run a 8,000 watt, (or larger), generator for that same year.
> 
> It amounts to almost nothing in comparison. Most people buy generators as a "just in case" standby solution in the event of an outage. Honestly I have not used mine yet for that.... Thankfully. Even in the deep south in hurricane country, if you run it say 2 weeks in a year, how much more is the fuel bill going to be compared to a smaller, (2,000 watt unit)? Perhaps a tank of gas for your pickup, if that. I'm just not seeing fuel consumption as a deal breaker, in exchange for having the peace of mind of running a larger, more capable unit. Not to mention the larger, more capable unit doesn't have to work so hard.


Fuel cost is not the only factor. Fuel availability also comes into play. After Ida, a lot of stations had no fuel to sell, at any price. The stations that did have fuel had 3 hours lines and many stations were rationing it. A lot of people were stuck with whatever fuel they had on hand prior to landfall. Because of the duration of the power outages, people who only had a full tank and a 5 gallon jug were going dry after a day or two. After a few days, people were going bingo fuel in their vehicles as well. Things got pretty tense for a while. Luckily, I had enough fuel on hand that allowed me to make it to the end of the outage. Had I had some huge 10 kw generator, my fuel would have lasted half as long as it did. Having an inverter meant the difference between being able to continue to power what I needed rather than being dead in the water and having to go on a fuel hunt myself. So yeah, fuel considerations are absolutely relevant. 

If you're using LNG, then it becomes less of a concern. However, as more and more homes convert to whole-house LNG generators, eventually even that becomes problematic. There are some neighborhoods in my area (upscale) where every home has a backup generator. They all kick on and kick off as the LNG lines try to keep up with the demand and can't. So even relying on LNG is not a failsafe.


----------



## billt

LaSwamp said:


> Fuel cost is not the only factor. Fuel availability also comes into play. After Ida, a lot of stations had no fuel to sell, at any price. The stations that did have fuel had 3 hours lines and many stations were rationing it. A lot of people were stuck with whatever fuel they had on hand prior to landfall. Because of the duration of the power outages, people who only had a full tank and a 5 gallon jug were going dry after a day or two. After a few days, people were going bingo fuel in their vehicles as well. Things got pretty tense for a while. Luckily, I had enough fuel on hand that allowed me to make it to the end of the outage. Had I had some huge 10 kw generator, my fuel would have lasted half as long as it did. Having an inverter meant the difference between being able to continue to power what I needed rather than being dead in the water and having to go on a fuel hunt myself. So yeah, fuel considerations are absolutely relevant.
> 
> If you're using LNG, then it becomes less of a concern. However, as more and more homes convert to whole-house LNG generators, eventually even that becomes problematic. There are some neighborhoods in my area (upscale) where every home has a backup generator. They all kick on and kick off as the LNG lines try to keep up with the demand and can't. So even relying on LNG is not a failsafe.


Then go with a dual fuel propane / gas unit. A LOT of companies make them...... Except Honda. Get yourself a large propane tank, and get it filled before hurricane season. Propane lasts indefinitely. Either way going from a 2000 watt unit, to an 8,000 watt unit isn't going to cause that big of a deal fuel wise. And you sure as heck aren't running ANY central A/C off 2,000 watts. You're going to need a LOT more power. So it's either more fuel, or sweat.


----------



## LaSwamp

billt said:


> Then go with a dual fuel propane / gas unit. A LOT of companies make them...... Except Honda. Get yourself a large propane tank, and get it filled before hurricane season. Propane lasts indefinitely. Either way going from a 2000 watt unit, to an 8,000 watt unit isn't going to cause that big of a deal fuel wise. And you sure as heck aren't running ANY central A/C off 2,000 watts. You're going to need a LOT more power. So it's either more fuel, or sweat.


A lot of people in my area had those big, gas guzzler generators and could not find fuel for them. Even with all of that power, they were still sweating. Anyone who lives in the burbs probably can't install a huge propane tank in their yard. Big generators have their place, but they are not necessary for everyone. Any time anyone is looking for advice on buying a generator, we always ask how they plan to use it and how much power they think they will actually *need*. If someone needs 3 kw, buying a 12 kw generator doesn't make much sense. It's going to be a lot of wasted fuel and noise for no purpose. People who want, or need, to run their entire homes at full-blast during an outage would be better off with a whole-house unit.


----------



## drmerdp

It’s less about fuel costs… more about fuel consumption and availability. 10kw gens will blow through gasoline like it’s going out of style. Dual fuel gens have the benefit of using propane, but 20lb BBQ tanks will not suffice. 

Proper planning is everything.


----------



## tabora

I was approached today by a photo printing client that knows I have generators, asking about helping them set up a generator. The wife wanted a cheap, portable generator solution in a box like mine. The husband wants a standby propane unit (no NG where they live, and they already use propane for heat & cooking). I steered them towards a not-Generac standby solution, like Kohler or Cummins. Will be interesting to see what they end up with.


----------



## billt

Securing fuel to a generator is much like securing ammunition for a firearm. One is no good without the other. We need food and water. Generators need fuel. And guns need ammo. And you can't have too much of any of the three. And you better have more than you'll think you need.


----------



## iowagold

something about a horse and water..
lol
some folks listen to those with experience.
tab i hope they take your advice!

i still think a lower power set up is the way to go.
less fuel and less cost.
unless you are a mfg, or place like a hospital.
or farmer with BIG pumps..
a super large gen set (50kw or larger)
is kinda a waste...
unless money is not a thing.

for me i do not have a problem with saving up for a good honda eu series gen set.
and making it part of a good survival plan.
i think of it like money in the bank.
good resale value.


----------



## LaSwamp

iowagold said:


> something about a horse and water..
> lol
> some folks listen to those with experience.
> tab i hope they take your advice!
> 
> i still think a lower power set up is the way to go.
> less fuel and less cost.
> unless you are a mfg, or place like a hospital.
> or farmer with BIG pumps..
> a super large gen set (50kw or larger)
> is kinda a waste...
> unless money is not a thing.
> 
> for me i do not have a problem with saving up for a good honda eu series gen set.
> and making it part of a good survival plan.
> i think of it like money in the bank.
> good resale value.


It's all about need. You don't need an F350 dualie to pull a 300 pound utility trailer around the block.


----------



## iowagold

lol
that is they way the "joans's" role around here!
and it has to be a Diesel ton'r!
just to pull a garden tractor.
GRIN!


----------



## VelvetFoot

I think the automatic transfer aspect of my standby generator is a luxury. It beats having to drag the big generator out, hook it up, gas it up, and the reverse. My plan is to use the standby like the big portable: mostly for the well pump, or if I needed to do a laundry. Other times I need electricity will be with the Honda 2000 inverter-easier to move, quieter, thriftier, etc. Luckily, we live in a northern clime and don't use air conditioning, and our heating is oil powered.

As an aside, the green new deal is pushing for total dependence on electricity for homeowners, which might not be the best approach for a power outage.


----------



## billt

I can put this into much the same category as people who buy a gun safe or a tool box. The general advise given on gun and mechanics forums is to look at what your current needs are...... Then buy one twice the size. I have never once heard a gun enthusiast say, "Dam, I wish I bought a smaller safe!" But I know several, (including myself), who ended up buying 2 or more.

Generators are no different. I don't know ANYONE, (including myself), who ever complained that their generator, "put out too much power". But I know plenty that ended up buying another one, because they purchased one that ended up being too small to suit their requirements...... Just like gun safes and tool boxes. As they say, do it right the first time, and you won't end up doing it again.


----------



## LaSwamp

It's not the "too much power" that's the problem. All of that extra, unneeded power costs a lot more fuel per hour. If the power is not actually needed and won't be used, then all of that extra fuel to create all of that extra power is wasted. If fuel is unlimited and cheap, then that is less of a problem. When there is a huge fuel shortage and every gallon counts, the last thing anyone is going to want is a gas guzzler that burns excess fuel. Perhaps you live next to a refinery or you have a 500 gallon tank fuel tank in your yard. Not everyone else has those luxuries. Fuel is a consideration for them, like it or not. If you need a big 10 kw generator, then the extra fuel needed for it won't go to waste. Anyone who doesn't need that much power is just wasting fuel by using something too big for their application. 

Gun safes and tool boxes don't waste fuel if you get them larger than you need. Generators do.


----------



## billt

I've never thought of a single cylinder, 457 CC air cooled engine as a, "gas guzzler". If you can't keep it fueled, you've got other problems. It's not P-51 for God's sake.


----------



## LaSwamp

When gas is unavailable, yeah, every gallon matters. If you have access to unlimited fuel, then sure. Get a 30 kw monster even if you only need 2 kw. Most people, however, won't have access to that kind of fuel supply. They will have a couple of 5-gallon jugs in the garage. Those gallons will go a lot further in something smaller. Sure, you could just say that everyone needs to man up and store 200 gallons of gasoline in their home, but that's not realistic. 

If you've never been in an outage when fuel was hard to come by, you wouldn't understand why economy becomes a huge factor.


----------



## drmerdp

billt said:


> I've never thought of a single cylinder, 457 CC air cooled engine as a, "gas guzzler". If you can't keep it fueled, you've got other problems. It's not P-51 for God's sake.


12-14 gallons a day… running out of gas is quite easy actually.


----------



## billt

LaSwamp said:


> When gas is unavailable, yeah, every gallon matters. If you have access to unlimited fuel, then sure.


If you want to make power, you need fuel. If you don't have power, and you can't get fuel it's not going to matter what kind of generator you have. Again we're back to the gun without ammo. You make sure you have enough. *You don't wait until there's a crisis.* That holds true with anything you need to sustain yourself.

This is a perfect example of what you have now at gun shops. All these idiots are all desperately trying to buy ammo to be able to shoot. And have been since Biden started this mess. I shoot over 100 targets a week, and have been since all of the, "sky is falling", panic buying started, just after he was elected. 

But I have components on hand to reload thousands. And have had long before all of this nonsense started. A generator is the same. You just make sure you have enough fuel *before* you desperately need it. It's not rocket science. It's common sense.

The time you spend creating these hypothetical scenarios, could be better spent coming up with a plan to secure more fuel when it's available. Same as you would food, water, and ammo. 

One thing is for certain regardless if the commodity is toilet paper, food, ammo, or gasoline, if you run with the sheep, you'll be slaughtered every time. If you need proof, just go to a Home Depot or a grocery store 24 hours before a hurricane hits.


----------



## LaSwamp

You haven't been through a long outage, I can tell. Blasting a huge generator for two hours is one thing. Trying to do it for two weeks is something else entirely. In a crisis, you need to be as efficient as you can be. There is no point in burning excess fuel for the sake of burning it. You may not be able to replace the fuel you burn like crazy, so it's nuts to needlessly burn all of your fuel if you only need a fraction of the power a big generator can provide. Getting the right generator is a balance between need and efficiency. Why would anyone want to burn fuel when they don't need to? So they can have massive amounts of wattage? What if they don't need the wattage? They should just burn double the fuel simply to do it? That makes no logical sense. They will regret it when they are flying dead stick after two days. 

Sure, you need ammo for a gun. Do you need 50,000 rounds to protect your house? Of course not. Unless you're fighting a war in your front yard, you won't need tens of thousands of bullets. You seem to be arguing that everyone needs massive overkill for a generator. That's simply not true. They need what they need to get by. Efficiency comes into the equation, no matter how much you keep insisting it does not. Ammo keeps forever if it's stored correctly. Gasoline does not. Stocking a hundred gallons of it sounds great but doesn't work out well in real life. With a smaller generator that fits the need, you won't have to.


----------



## billt

LaSwamp said:


> You seem to be arguing that everyone needs massive overkill for a generator.


That's not what I'm "arguing" at all. And a 9,500 watt generator is hardly, "massive overkill". It will barely run my A/C... Which is a necessity in 120 degree Summer desert heat. If you want a small generator buy one. I did, and I found it to be pretty much useless for what I need at this stage of my life.

I now have 2, 9,500 watt units that can do most everything I require. And I'm not seeing a situation develop in my area that would cause massive fuel shortages for long periods of time. At least nothing that you couldn't see coming with enough time to prepare.


----------



## iowagold

every one needs an eu2200i honda gen set.
we use them on the service truck as one will fire the little air compressor to run the air powered grease gun as well as the large lumen led work light.
and they will run a fridge and freezer during and no power event.
in the winter i can get by with one gen set to run the house!
no kidding.
and with tri fuel i have choices of fuel.
run on NG first.
and i save the LP for last as i can cook with the outdoor gas grill.
but then i am using grill tanks on LP.
i can run a couple of days on 6 gallons of gasoline so the extended run marine tank works well in eco mode.


----------



## LaSwamp

A 9.5 kw generator is going to use a lot of fuel, especially compared to an inverter. It sounds like you're running a central a/c using a portable generator. At 19 kw, you're outputting the wattage of a whole house unit. 

My approach is modular. I have two 3.5 kw inverters I can run in parallel. Together, they make close to 7 kw, plenty of power to run 3 window a/c units, two fridges, a deep freezer, lights, TV, modem, router, and battery chargers. At night, when I don't need that much wattage, I can shut down one of the inverters to power the kitchen fridge and a pair of window a/c units. It saves a lot of fuel and I still have all the power I need. When you have no idea how long an outage is going to last, efficient use of the fuel is critical. It's not practical to store a hundred gallons of fuel. And it's not necessary with the correct equipment.


----------



## iowagold

I have been looking at the tesla power wall..
if they get down cheaper it might be a choice for me.
then do solar shingles and maybe wind...
just as an alt source.
super pricey right now on those choices...
but i hope with tesla doing better maybe the new batteries might drop in price in a couple of years..


----------



## drmerdp

iowagold said:


> every one needs an eu2200i honda gen set.
> we use them on the service truck as one will fire the little air compressor to run the air powered grease gun as well as the large lumen led work light.
> and they will run a fridge and freezer during and no power event.
> in the winter i can get by with one gen set to run the house!
> no kidding.
> and with tri fuel i have choices of fuel.
> run on NG first.
> and i save the LP for last as i can cook with the outdoor gas grill.
> but then i am using grill tanks on LP.
> i can run a couple of days on 6 gallons of gasoline so the extended run marine tank works well in eco mode.


“every one needs an eu2200i honda gen set.”
lol 👍


----------



## OrlyP

I agree with LaSwamp. Everyone has their own take on how long of an outage they should prepare for then go from there. It's a "one size does NOT fit all" type scenario.

There are three key variables you'll need to consider, and unless you have unlimited fuel supply like NG, in most circumstances, choosing any two variable will have a drastic impact on the third:

1. Generator runtime duration
2. Generator power/capacity
3. Available fuel

I like the idea of having two inverter generators run in parallel. It affords one the granularity to change #2, which allows you to play with runtime duration and/or fuel budget. This becomes ever more crucial the longer the outage is.


----------



## VelvetFoot

If they're 120v'ers, you're still not gonna run a 240v deep well pump.


----------



## billt

Another point is both of my units are dual fuel. I always have a minimum of 110 pounds of propane on hand, in addition to several gallons of gas. (Not to mention 80 or so gallons in all of my vehicles which I always keep full). So one can easily offset the other in a pinch. (Unless you're running a Honda). Here propane is available all over town. (We have A LOT of R.V.'rs that spend the Winter months here).

So, at least where I'm at, getting one or the other isn't going to be an issue. And if it ever got to the point where you couldn't get either for an extended period of time, it's going to be a national calamity the likes this country's never seen. And it won't matter what kind of generator you have. Being realistic, you can only prepare for so much.


----------



## 50ShadesOfDirt

If the only tool in your toolbox is a generator, then you _are_ in a bind, as every power need means "run the generator all the time" ... this could be 24 hours/day. 

If you consider adding in a _buffer_ of inverter/lithium-batteries/charger, you could possibly get things down to 4 hours/day of generation. If on-grid, then a "powerwall" is a good thing (although this can be a diy project to save money).

To be even minimally prepared, everything needs a buffer (even your toilet paper!), but few people seem to consider getting these buffers in place. Add an inline water tank ... convert a closet to a small pantry ... a bit of space in the garage can become the inverter/battery/charger shelf, and so on ...

The buffers scale to most every scenario you could imagine ...

No need to store massive amounts of fuel ... perhaps just get out of the position where you have to run the genny 24 hours/day, if at all possible.


----------



## Rene

billt said:


> Another point is both of my units are dual fuel. I always have a minimum of 110 pounds of propane on hand, in addition to several gallons of gas. (Not to mention 80 or so gallons in all of my vehicles which I always keep full). So one can easily offset the other in a pinch. (Unless you're running a Honda). Here propane is available all over town. (We have A LOT of R.V.'rs that spend the Winter months here).
> 
> So, at least where I'm at, getting one or the other isn't going to be an issue. And if it ever got to the point where you couldn't get either for an extended period of time, it's going to be a national calamity the likes this country's never seen. And it won't matter what kind of generator you have. Being realistic, you can only prepare for so much.


Question on your vehicles, do they have anti-siphon devices. If yes, what method do you use to extract the fuel in the tanks? My 2018 car has anti-siphon and I was not able to extract any fuel. It didn't impact me for Ida as I ran on NG but I would like to have the option to run on gasoline if I need more power out of the Genset.


----------



## billt

Rene said:


> Question on your vehicles, do they have anti-siphon devices. If yes, what method do you use to extract the fuel in the tanks? My 2018 car has anti-siphon and I was not able to extract any fuel. It didn't impact me for Ida as I ran on NG but I would like to have the option to run on gasoline if I need more power out of the Genset.


I know my older Ford F-150 doesn't. (Twin tanks at around 36 gallons total). But I've siphoned out of both my 2018 Camry, (16 gallon tank), and my 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee, (26 gallon tank).

*What you have to be really careful of, is getting a siphon hose stuck.* They all go in a lot easier than they come out. Especially with my Jeep, because it has that stupid capless filler. They give you a funnel with the vehicle in case you run out of gas. I found a piece of neoprene hose at Lowe's that I can slide through it, and it won't get stuck. And siphon or fill from there. 

Much the same deal on my Toyota and F-150. If you just shove a hose through the little "trap door", you'll be screwed when you try to pull it out. I've read on Toyota forums of guys getting hoses stuck in the dam filler necks. I would have too, had I not learned from their mistake.

I siphon using an old squeeze pump I had, that came with an old Kerosene heater I bought years ago. It works pretty well, but it's slow, and takes a while to fill a 5 gallon can. It would go faster if I could position the can lower, or the car higher. But there is nowhere on my property I can do that. I might try getting one of those powered one's. They're not too expensive.


----------



## tabora

billt said:


> *What you have to be really careful of, is getting a siphon hose stuck.* They all go in a lot easier than they come out. Especially with my Jeep, because it has that stupid capless filler. They give you a funnel with the vehicle in case you run out of gas. I found a piece of neoprene hose at Lowe's that I can slide through it, and it won't get stuck. And siphon or fill from there.


Yes! I too have a 1 foot piece of hard hose to stick through the trap door, and then the siphon goes through that. It stays right with the vacuum pump.


----------



## iowagold

Rene said:


> Question on your vehicles, do they have anti-siphon devices. If yes, what method do you use to extract the fuel in the tanks? My 2018 car has anti-siphon and I was not able to extract any fuel. It didn't impact me for Ida as I ran on NG but I would like to have the option to run on gasoline if I need more power out of the Genset.


you can add a fuel port off the fuel rail easy on most 2000 and newer cars and trucks.
a few 200 psi rated for fuel quick couplers and you are set.


----------



## Matt88-8

Rene said:


> Question on your vehicles, do they have anti-siphon devices. If yes, what method do you use to extract the fuel in the tanks? My 2018 car has anti-siphon and I was not able to extract any fuel. It didn't impact me for Ida as I ran on NG but I would like to have the option to run on gasoline if I need more power out of the Genset.


Depending on the vehicle, (Japanese stuff almost always does) you very likely have a connection for your fuel return line easily accessible under the hood.
Go to the scrap yard and cut a connection off a junker. Cut it a few feet back so you have enough hose to run to a Jerry can. With the engine idling you have a pretty quick, easy way to pump your fuel tank out.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


----------

