# 240 Voltage Question



## IwanaBich (Mar 11, 2016)

I own a Powerwise 3500 watt generator that doesn't seem quite right. Let me begin by saying that I only use this generator to back up a few 110 Volt circuits, such as lights, a frig and the heat. All well withing the 3500 Watt capacity of the unit and nothing 240V is ever powered with it. 

When I connected the generator up to my transfer switch, using the twist lock 240V plug I got very strange results. Some of the lights did not work and others were overly bright. So I quickly unplugged the generator and got out my meter and I was surprised what I found. I measured 240 Volts across the two hot leads, which is what I expected. Then I measured from one hot lead to ground and it read read 160 volts AC and when I measured the other leg I read 80 volts!!!! I've never seen unbalanced legs before. This explained why some circuits worked and others were too bright. Then I switched the generator over to 110V and measured those plugs and all of the plugs (2) measured correctly. I tested the transfer switch when it was orignally installed with a borrowed generator and everything worked just fine, so I know the transfer switch is fine. 

To use my generator (it was cold), I've was forced to back feed one (110V) leg of my circuit panel. I know this is illegal, but I needed power. First I threw open the main breaker and then all of the other breakers open as well. Then I only threw the breakers that I had too. Everything worked fine, we had heat, cold beer and a few lights.

Now that the power is back on, I'd like to figure out what's wrong with my generator, so I can use my transfer switch properly. Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix?

Lastly I know that my generator is a real cheap POS made by a Chinese company named "Jang Dong". Unfortunately I'm stuck with it because I can't really afford to replace it, so fixing may be my only viable option.

Thanks a head of time!


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

Post a print of the wiring. Also, beware some cheap units are not phase balanced in all voltages. Cheap units are cheap for a reason, be it from the drawing board, material or both.


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## IwanaBich (Mar 11, 2016)

Here is a copy of the wiring diagram that I found on the net, its the same as the manual.


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## aandpdan (Oct 8, 2012)

Did the generator ever work "right?" As in 120 volts each leg?

You are describing a broken neutral almost perfectly. It may not be in the generator but in the cord you are using to connect to your transfer switch.


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## IwanaBich (Mar 11, 2016)

I measured the voltages on the outlets on the generator. Both 120 volt outlets measured 120V as expected. When I measure the voltage potential across the 240 hot hot leads (blue and Brown above), I measured 240 Volts, as expected. However when I measured the voltage between the 240V hot legs and ground, I got significantly different voltages. I expected both to be 120V, but instead they were 180V and 80V. 

I can't answer your question as to whether or not it ever worked right because for the first few years I only used the two 120V legs. Everything in my house that uses 240V (Oven, AC unit, cook top) is WAY beyond the capability of this generator, so I never bothered using it. I only noticed the trouble when I had a transfer switch installed. I know the switch is perfect, because we proved it good with another generator.

I am also thinking the issue is ground or neutral related. My next step is to open up the generator and take a peek inside.


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

Print shows a balanced winding. Readings from phase to ground will most always be different that phase to neutral. Never believe the two are the same. In-fact with the unit stopped ohm the ground to either phase then do the neutral, they will be different as will the running product voltages. I believe (from afar) you have the neutral an ground wired wrong. Also a 240Vac 3kw set should power (1) eye on a cook top w/o issue, but one only.


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## Osviur (Sep 7, 2015)

*Floating Neutral*

Hello IwanaBich,

In the wiring diagram it is clear that the neutral point, the union point of the central terminals from both windings (red and white ), is not connected to the 240 V output connector, there is a brown jumper floating that corresponds to the neutral.

When you measure voltage with a high impedance voltmeter ( 10 Mega Ohms for an electronic instrument) between any of the 240 V hot terminals and ground or neutral, in the 240 V position, the reading is the result of the capacitance between the windings and generator chassis. Try connecting a light bulb instead of the meter, and you will observ that nothing happens, put the meter in parallel with the bulb and it will read zero volts.This is the real potencial in a loaded circuit.

Your chinesse generator is working OK.

Greetings


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## IwanaBich (Mar 11, 2016)

So you are basically saying that I can't use my transfer switch.... yes? Is that what you are saying??? 

My transfer switch relies on using the 240V generator output, similar to the one below.










Just so I'm clear on my issue. When I plug the generator in, half the circuits work, but the lights that do light, are unusually bright and the half of the circuits don't work at all. The side that works is obviously drawing its power from the leg that reads 180V and the other from the 80V leg....and this is normal?


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

Looking at the wiring again I believe it could be made to work, but not like they have it drawn. If the stator coils are in fact located like that the print is totally wrong, in a number of ways. If it were I, I'd sell it and pickup a quality set and never buy a price point only unit ever again. In the 45+ years of power generation, when I think gear can not be made cheaper or worse, I am proven wrong over an over. Consumer Education is the key to stopping price point only antics.


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## IwanaBich (Mar 11, 2016)

After I made my last post, I went out side and made some more tests. Yes, the 120V outlets put out 120V, but they too are unbalanced. I measured from each side of the outlet to ground and got different voltages from each outlet....very strange. 

In disgust, I ran in the house, grabbed the camera, took a few pics, so I could list it on Craigslist. Then I come back to my computer and read KRE's post and had a good laugh! KRE, I agree with you 100%!

In spite of my issue, this Powerwise generator is still a decent little generator for the money and it has served me well over the years and doesn't owe me a thing. It ran flawlessly during Super Storm Sandy and other outages. Unfortunately, I now need the ability to power the whole panel and not just one side. 

Does anyone have a recommendation on a decent generator? I'm also thinking of at least doubling the size.


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

IwanaBich said:


>


 You might try rewiring it and see if it will work. Use the brown an blue as the two hot phases. Hook the red an white with a 5-8 amp fuse between them, and use this as your neutral. If that changes nothing report back and I'll give you another hook up to try. I believe the issue is winding pitch vs magnetic transfer location. The fuse needs to be in there to protect the winding if they are not wound as shown. If it works the fuse can be removed and the circuit breakers will handle any over loads. You will have to unhook all 4 stator wires to try this, and hook up a meter or load to test, if you are uncomfortable with this in the *slightest*, do not attempt it at all. There are voltages in these wires and enough amperage that improperly doing this * Can Kill You*


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## Osviur (Sep 7, 2015)

*Floating Neutral,*

IwanaBich,

I'm sorry if I could not be enough clear in my explanation to be understood, it is strictly technical. I didn't mention anything about your transfer switch to deserve the triple ???. I just give you some information taken from your diagram and some tests to do to understand that there is not connection between neutral or ground with any live terminal so you can't measure anything between them.
Please, ignore my reply, and proceed as you think which is the better way to solve your problem.


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## Enigma-2 (Mar 18, 2016)

Forgive me for adding confusion, but it seems to me that without a neutral the voltage on the 240 volt side will vare by what loads are connected to each leg. 

If that's correct, all he would need do is connect the common (brown loop) to the unconnected neutral terminal.

It looks like he would get 120 v from each of the 120 v recepts, but the actual voltage above ground plane would be floating, that is, 120 v between black and white, but the white could actually be 60 volts from ground and the black at 180 volts (120 volt difference but the high leg actually floating at 180 volts above chassis ground).

The 240 volt side was wired for true 240 volts loads only, and he's trying to connect 120 v to each leg without a neutral.

Should be and easy mod.


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