# 30 amp Gen cord with extension cords vs built in 20 amp outlets on Gen.



## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Greetings, 
I have a 9 yr old ETQ 3500/3000 Propane Generator.





Amazon.com : ETQ PG30P11, 3000 Running Watts/3500 Starting Watts, Propane Powered Portable Generator (Discontinued by Manufacturer) : Quietest Generator : Garden & Outdoor


Amazon.com : ETQ PG30P11, 3000 Running Watts/3500 Starting Watts, Propane Powered Portable Generator (Discontinued by Manufacturer) : Quietest Generator : Garden & Outdoor



www.amazon.com




I used it for the first time about 3 months ago when we lost power for 2 days, worked just fine.

One refrigerator 18 cf, and two small chest freezers 7 cf and 5 cf. and small stuff eg. cell phone charger, 

My question is, what would be the advantage (if any) to using a round gen cord rated at 30 amps (125V L5-30R )
with three 20 amp outlets to bring into the house VS just using extension cords from the built in two 20 amp gfi (120V 20amp GFCI outlets)
Besides a third outlet.

I read somewhere that if I use the (125V L5-30R ) I would be using both windings in the gen
But if I use the (120V 20amp GFCI outlets) I only use one winding.

Gen cord I am looking at is








Amazon.com: WEN PC2525-3 25 ft. 30-Amp 10-Gauge SJTW Fan-Style 10/3 Generator Extension Cord (converts L5-30R to three 5-20R outlets),Black : Everything Else


Buy WEN PC2525-3 25 ft. 30-Amp 10-Gauge SJTW Fan-Style 10/3 Generator Extension Cord (converts L5-30R to three 5-20R outlets),Black: Everything Else - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Any advantage?
Or Should I just stick with using regular extension cords and the (120V 20amp GFCI outlets) 12 ga cords btw.

Thanks, 
Smoke


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

From my experience the single outlets are powered off of the breaker. One gets power from one leg of the generator and one gets power from the other leg.
So basically the 120 volt outlets are balanced and you only have 20 amps.
The 30 amp plug allows the full 30 amps and is balanced even better.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

That generator is only 120V (not 240V), so only has a single 30A peak 120V output leg. That cord is easier to manage than multiple 5-20R cords, but you're only going to get 25A continuous and 29A starting out of it... The three outlets are just wired in parallel.

If you had a 240V generator with an L14-30R, you could get a 4x 5-20R cord that would have two receptacles from each leg.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

tabora said:


> That generator is only 120V (not 240V), so only has a single 30A peak 120V output leg. That cord is easier to manage than multiple 5-20R cords, but you're only going to get 25A continuous and 29A starting out of it... The three outlets are just wired in parallel.
> 
> If you had a 240V generator with an L14-30R, you could get a 4x 5-20R cord that would have two receptacles from each leg.


Thank you for that explanation, So there are not 2 separate windings as it's only 120v as you stated.
That clears up that issue. 
That then brings me to the matter of convenience of having the addition gen cord. Not necessarily any functional improvement for my requirements.

I am obviously a newb at generators, even if I have owned one for 9 yrs.
What you said makes perfect sense, and I thank you very much.

EDIT... Perhaps the Gen cord would be useful, after thinking about it the two regular outlets are NOT 20a each but 20a combined.
As you said at least I could get 25a out of the gen cord setup.
When a new generator is needed I will be looking for a 240V.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Thank you for that explanation, So there are not 2 separate windings as it's only 120v as you stated.
> That clears up that issue.
> That then brings me to the matter of convenience of having the addition gen cord. Not necessarily any functional improvement for my requirements.
> 
> ...


look at the honda eu7000is gen set.
more money but they work great!!
fuel injected now and has real good clean power!
click here for the honda eu7000is pages
there is tri fuel as well as connection ideas there too!!


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

iowagold said:


> look at the honda eu7000is gen set.
> more money but they work great!!
> fuel injected now and has real good clean power!
> click here for the honda eu7000is pages
> there is tri fuel as well as connection ideas there too!!


Thanks for the recommendation, I'm sure it's a nice Gen, and if I had frequent usage I would consider it.
My Gen usage is for backup only, right now mine has only been used once for a total of about 16 hrs or so over 2 days after sitting in storage for 9 yrs.
Only 1x in 27 yrs here did I have a need for a gen. Might be next week... who knows.
For now this one will do, unless I get an itch to upgrade it


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i guess i value my computer controlled electronics gear...
i would never use an avr gen with my gear in house..
way too sensitive of gear...
and pricy as well...
the eu7000is gen set is cheap insurance for me...
and it holds value!!

ask any of the folks in cali right now trying to run on low cost gens..
most of them are not happy..
noise, fuel consumption. power quality...

yea break out in hives (lol)
and get itchy for the upgrade to a Honda eu7000is!! you will be glad you did!!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

There are three advantages to using the 10gauge l5-30 cord. The convenience of a single cord connected at the generator. You wont trip the breaker if you are consuming over 20 amps. If the l530 cord allows you to use shorter branch extension cords then you are reducing voltage drop at the appliances.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> There are three advantages to using the 10gauge l5-30 cord. The convenience of a single cord connected at the generator. You wont trip the breaker if you are consuming over 20 amps. If the l530 cord allows you to use shorter branch extension cords then you are reducing voltage drop at the appliances.


Thank you for that explanation,
I just got done checking my starting and running wattage of the appliances I "need" to run,
Ref, ............. 168w running 673w starting. 100ft 12ga extension cord @ 168 running watts I don't see a problem. Should be good for 1500w @ 100 ft.
Freezer 7cu 165w running 496w starting 25ft 12ga extension cord with the second freezer on the same line total 336 running watts.
Freezer 5 cu 167w running ???w starting I missed it, I will assume 500w starting.

Total 500w running 1670w starting.... IF all 3 start at once. I would stagger them starting up on the Gen.

On my 3500/3000 that leaves me with another 1000w staying at 50% running load.

Enough to occasionally run a small microwave, 1000w

I could also run my HW heat pump If needed, running watts 900 Starting I'm not sure, as even starting it never went over 900w / 7.37a

So even if I ran it all it would add up to 2500 ish watts running. 
I would not run it all at the same time of course in case 2 of the ref/freez units cycled on at the same time, that would push me to the max even for a moment.

So 2500 running watt potential is at 20 amps,

The single gen cord with 3 outlets would allow me to use a separate cord for the second freezer.
And keep all the loads running even if I went over 20a even momentarily with water heater or micro.

Sounds like a plan, I will send for that gen cord. even if I don't use it for another 9 yrs lol.

I will redo my starting amps/watts when I get a new clamp meter with the inrush feature.

Thank you and everyone.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Greetings,
> I have a 9 yr old ETQ 3500/3000 Propane Generator.
> 
> 
> ...


Noticed your post regarding your ETQ...does your have a starter motor and if so, where can I find one for mine?
Thanks


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Noticed your post regarding your ETQ...does your have a starter motor and if so, where can I find one for mine?
> Thanks


Hi, My ETQ is from a company that no longer exists, the Name ETQ was sold and ETQ Gens made today are not the same company. 
That said my starter motor is a pull cord. I do not have battery start if that's what you are referring to.

Perhaps try this site.




__





ETQ Generator Parts & Spares - Generator Guru


Buy ETQ Generator Parts now. Advice available from the leader in Portable Generator Parts. USA Canada UK EU AUS NZ




www.generatorguru.com


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Noticed your post regarding your ETQ...does your have a starter motor and if so, where can I find one for mine?
> Thanks


I just looked up your other posts you have a 178f engine ?
Try this... $60





178F(6hp)Diesel Engine Parts : Wholesale Small Engine Parts, Online Supplier For Quality Small Gas Engine,Diesel Engine, Portable Generator and Parts


Wholesale Small Engine Parts : 178F(6hp)Diesel Engine Parts - Gasoline Engine Diesel Engine Portable Generator Water Pump Farm Tiller Spare Parts Gasoline Engine Parts, Diesel Engine Parts, Generator Parts, Small Engine Wholesale,Portable Generator Supplier



www.wholesale-smallengineparts.com


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Hi, My ETQ is from a company that no longer exists, the Name ETQ was sold and ETQ Gens made today are not the same company.
> That said my starter motor is a pull cord. I do not have battery start if that's what you are referring to.
> 
> Perhaps try this site.
> ...


Yes, I was aware of that, Eastern Tools ......mine is also pull cord but is a diesel, I can crank it with that method but my wife can't.

Thank you for the reply and link.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> I just looked up your other posts you have a 178f engine ?
> Try this... $60
> 
> 
> ...


Yes on the engine...is the '"Try this"..... $60 what a starter will cost or some other meaning?

I'll try the loink and again Thank you.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Yes on the engine...is the '"Try this"..... $60 what a starter will cost or some other meaning?
> 
> I'll try the link and again Thank you.


It says 178F, have you dealt with the supplier before?


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> It says 178F, have you dealt with the supplier before?


Mine also has DG4LE on the emblem...didn't notice that on the item listed, is that a problem?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Mine also has DG4LE on the emblem...didn't notice that on the item listed, is that a problem?


Mine is a gas Propane engine, but I looked up yours as a general search and found that link.
I have not dealt with the supplier.

Also, depending on what part of the housing for the starter cracked, if it's metal you might try JB Weld to fix it, great stuff, I have fixed many things with it including cracked engine crankcases.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

any good tig welder guy can fix the aluminum.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Problem is,I have no idea where the piece of nose cone is. I sent the supplier an e-mail but so far no response, ask me if I'm surprised?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Give this a try then








Amazon.com: 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise) : Automotive


Buy 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise): Starters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Give this a try then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll try...Thank you.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

How do you find these....I've been trying to find one for at least year...just need to check the flywheel rotation and oh I hope it works.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> How do you find these....I've been trying to find one for at least year...just need to check the flywheel rotation and oh I hope it works.


Just did a generic search on google


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

If it works it will make up for a, to put it mildly, a horrible day. I go to a retailer to pick up a button battery for a micrometer, come back home and the battery doesn't turn it on. So make the hour trip back to try another battery which doesn't work either (this time I take the micrometer with me) the sales person looks at the instructions and it calls for + side up which I was putting + side down. What a relief. I thank her and leave the store only to discover my wallet is missing. Back into the store, retracing the steps I took, no wallet, she takes me to Customer Service and an older gentlemen found it laying in the parking lot (WalMart) and what a relief because I was beyond my threshold of civility.
There still are people with integrity and honesty in this fouled up world.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

It seems the part number for that etq generator starter motor is _*ETQ4LE2 & ETQ6LE2*_ It's what I found online while investigating.
As you know it's a chinese gen, so parts will be world wide and may often come from another country.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> If it works it will make up for a, to put it mildly, a horrible day. I go to a retailer to pick up a button battery for a micrometer, come back home and the battery doesn't turn it on. So make the hour trip back to try another battery which doesn't work either (this time I take the micrometer with me) the sales person looks at the instructions and it calls for + side up which I was putting + side down. What a relief. I thank her and leave the store only to discover my wallet is missing. Back into the store, retracing the steps I took, no wallet, she takes me to Customer Service and an older gentlemen found it laying in the parking lot (WalMart) and what a relief because I was beyond my threshold of civility.
> There still are people with integrity and honesty in this fouled up world.


Some days are like that, you just have to get through them is all, then forget them lol


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Correct me if I'm wrong but to find the Flywheel rotation, I will pull the rope cord and facing it see which way the flywheel rotates...correct?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but to find the Flywheel rotation, I will pull the rope cord and facing it see which way the flywheel rotates...correct?


I would just be guessing sorry

Here is another link to a web site that gives more info on that starter, it seems to fit ALL chinese diesel gens to a certain size.





STARTER MOTOR FOR YANMAR L100 L70 L48 DIESELS ELECTRIC START KIT 2KW 5KW TILLER GENERATOR 12V 0.8KW 8T FORWARD SOLENOID RELAY|Tool Parts| - AliExpress


Cheap Tool Parts, Buy Quality Tools Directly from China Suppliers:STARTER MOTOR FOR YANMAR L100 L70 L48 DIESELS ELECTRIC START KIT 2KW 5KW TILLER GENERATOR 12V 0.8KW 8T FORWARD SOLENOID RELAY Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.




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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but to find the Flywheel rotation, I will pull the rope cord and facing it see which way the flywheel rotates...correct?


Here is something I just found about rotation, hopefully it is correct.

"On MOST engines, the rotation is clockwise when viewing the "Front" of the engine. ON small engines, the front is the flywheel end. PTO side is the back where the rotation is Counter-Clockwise. Most automotive engine, the flywheel is on the rear where the rotation is still Counter-Clockwise. This is NOT always true because there are a few reverse rotation engines out there. "


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> It seems the part number for that etq generator starter motor is _*ETQ4LE2 & ETQ6LE2*_ It's what I found online while investigating.
> As you know it's a chinese gen, so parts will be world wide and may often come from another country.


The last link lists the letters and numbers you posted above. *ETQ4LE2 & ETQ6LE2. So probably should buy that one.*


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

The two sets of characters might be for a CW or CCW rotation, second thought must be size watt Generator 4000 or 6000,.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Give this a try then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Yes it seems confusing, the title says it's clockwise. Then it says to specify which one you need, and there is no where to click to specify....
Perhaps try contacting the seller. Remember these sellers could be overseas so account for time difference for a reply.


Amazon.com Seller Profile: ZHEDAN-US



I sent a message as well, just for the heck of it. 

*"Message Sent*

Please allow 2 business days for ZHEDAN-US to respond. Amazon will also receive a copy of your message. "


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Amazon.com: 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise) : Automotive


Buy 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise): Starters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Tried to place order for above starter, details mentioned to specify CW or CCW rotation, which mine is the latter.

No where did I see an option to do this and when order preceded to place order, it said CW in description.

Did I miss something or, there not offering it in CCW as the details in their listing suggest?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

See my previous reply.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay was typing you another message when you made the last post...didn't see a Contact Seller option but saw:

*Customer questions & answers *so left a question...saw your link to the company for contact...Thank you.

Should I also ask them at the link you provided?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Okay was typing you another message when you made the last post...didn't see a Contact Seller option but saw:
> 
> *Customer questions & answers *so left a question...saw your link to the company for contact...Thank you.
> 
> Should I also ask them at the link you provided?


Yes, that will contact the seller directly, the questions and answers might have to wait till the seller looks at the web page.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Okay was typing you another message when you made the last post...didn't see a Contact Seller option but saw:
> 
> *Customer questions & answers *so left a question...saw your link to the company for contact...Thank you.
> 
> Should I also ask them at the link you provided?


One good thing about Amazon, they have whats called an ABC guaranty , If it's not your fault ... they sent you the wrong item, it doesn't work etc etc the seller has 3 days from when you contact Amazon, if the seller does not reply or take care of the mistake Amazon refunds your cost.
I have used this a few times.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay, Thank you for the reply's and advice, I will send a contact to them also. Amazon.com Seller Profile: ZHEDAN-US


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Amazon.com: 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise) : Automotive
> 
> 
> Buy 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise): Starters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...


Are you saying you have a ccw rotation?

I just looked up the manual on that engine and it says clockwise, or perhaps I am confused.





ETQ 170FE Owner's Manual | Manualzz


View online (89 pages) or download PDF (9 MB) ETQ 170FE, 178FSE, 178FS, 170F, 186F, 178F, 186FE, 186FS, 186FSE, 170FSE Owner's manual • 170FE, 178FSE, 178FS, 170F, 186F, 178F, 186FE, 186FS, 186FSE, 170FSE power generators PDF manual download and more ETQ online manuals




manualzz.com


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Are you saying you have a ccw rotation?
> 
> I just looked up the manual on that engine and it says clockwise, or perhaps I am confused.
> 
> ...


What I did was crank it...let it run 10 -15 mins. and when I turned it off I watched the fly wheel.
Too much vibration as flywheel settled down, so I cranked it again and turned off the fuel and watched it, still hard to tell so turned it back off and had a* late* brain storm....

Just pull the rope cord and see which way the FW turns...it rotated downward as I faced the FW.
So that's how I determined the starter had to rotate it CCW to crank it.
Wait, hold everything...I just grabbed the starter and there is resistance when I rotate the gear CW and no resistance when I rotate it CCW.

But if it's like a car starter the bendix engages the starter motor gear into the FW to crank and then disengages when the car is running.

Heck, now I'm confused.


I just looked up the manual on that engine and it says clockwise, or perhaps I am confused.





ETQ 170FE Owner's Manual | Manualzz


View online (89 pages) or download PDF (9 MB) ETQ 170FE, 178FSE, 178FS, 170F, 186F, 178F, 186FE, 186FS, 186FSE, 170FSE Owner's manual • 170FE, 178FSE, 178FS, 170F, 186F, 178F, 186FE, 186FS, 186FSE, 170FSE power generators PDF manual download and more ETQ online manuals




manualzz.com




[/QUOTE]


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> What I did was crank it...let it run 10 -15 mins. and when I turned it off I watched the fly wheel.
> Too much vibration as flywheel settled down, so I cranked it again and turned off the fuel and watched it, still hard to tell so turned it back off and had a* late* brain storm....
> 
> Just pull the rope cord and see which way the FW turns...it rotated downward as I faced the FW.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

From what I understand the starter cw or ccw is not dependent on the function of the starter, it's dependent on the cw or ccw of the "motor" if the motor is cw then you need the cw listed starter, if the motor is ccw then you need the ccw listed starter.

I can tell by looking at the crank pull handle.

If this is your generator, I can tell by looking at the hand starter that it is a cw motor.








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I will try to find a pic of a ccw type pull hand starter

Ok they are rare, but his is a pick of a ccw recoil starter. Notice the difference with the direction of the pull handle.








Amazon.com : Space-parts Generator Recoil Starter Assembly for Proforce PM0102500 PMC102500 5.5HP OHV 2500 3125 Watt Generator : Patio, Lawn & Garden


Amazon.com : Space-parts Generator Recoil Starter Assembly for Proforce PM0102500 PMC102500 5.5HP OHV 2500 3125 Watt Generator : Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.com


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay, just looked at mine and the pull handle is at 7 o' clock and you pull it up...so that would be CW rotation.

Thank you for preventing me from ordering the wrong starter and all the research you did to steer me in the right direction.

So back to AMazon to complete order.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

From what I understand the starter cw or ccw is not dependent on the function of the starter, it's dependent on the cw or ccw of the "motor" if the motor is cw then you need the cw listed starter, if the motor is ccw then you need the ccw listed starter.

I can tell by looking at the crank pull handle.

If this is your generator, I can tell by looking at the hand starter that it is a cw motor.








ETQ DG4LE OWNER'S MANUAL Pdf Download


View and Download ETQ DG4LE owner's manual online. Air-cooled diesel engine generator set. DG4LE portable generator pdf manual download. Also for: Dg6le.




www.manualslib.com





I will try to find a pic of a ccw type pull hand starter
[/QUOTE]


PiscBc2 said:


> Okay, just looked at mine and the pull handle is at 7 o' clock and you pull it up...so that would be CW rotation.
> 
> Thank you for preventing me from ordering the wrong starter and all the research you did to steer me in the right direction.
> 
> So back to AMazon to complete order.


You are quite welcome, let me/us know how you make out.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

I sure will and thanks again Smoke.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Been thinking about something, I'd like your opinion on, I did send a Contact to  ZHEDAN-US  saying I needed a CCW 
starter but after the information you provided, I placed the order and it only showed CW, so do I need to send another Contact post to them informing them that I was wrong and I need a CW rotation starter?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Been thinking about something, I'd like your opinion on, I did send a Contact to  ZHEDAN-US  saying I needed a CCW
> starter but after th e information you provided, I placed the order and it only showed CW, so do I need to send another Contact post to them informing them that I was wrong and I need a CW rotation starter?


Two different Amazon listings for each starter, If you ordered from the one with clockwise CW in the title, that's the one you will get.

They gave me the part number for the CCW starter which is a different listing in Amazon.









Amazon.com: 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Counter Clockwise) : Automotive


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And I see now there are only 3 of the CW left for sale, there were 4. Yours must have been one.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Sorry for the late reply, family arrived from the LA. affected Hurricane Laura...the one I ordered did say CW.
Thank you again.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke said:


> Thank you for that explanation,
> I just got done checking my starting and running wattage of the appliances I "need" to run,
> Ref, ............. 168w running 673w starting. 100ft 12ga extension cord @ 168 running watts I don't see a problem. Should be good for 1500w @ 100 ft.
> Freezer 7cu 165w running 496w starting 25ft 12ga extension cord with the second freezer on the same line total 336 running watts.
> ...


*The single gen cord with 3 outlets would allow me to use a separate cord for the second freezer.
And keep all the loads running even if I went over 20a even momentarily with water heater or micro.*

Smoke, trying to follow the logic on the thread above, in simple terms would it be something that would benefit my situation also?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> *The single gen cord with 3 outlets would allow me to use a separate cord for the second freezer.
> And keep all the loads running even if I went over 20a even momentarily with water heater or micro.*
> 
> Smoke, trying to follow the logic on the thread above, in simple terms would it be something that would benefit my situation also?


My gen cord came in yesterday, today I fired it up and tested it out.
I previously had an issue with my large microwave in the kitchen, it pulls 17.4 amps about 2122 watts running on hi power.
I was running it off of the regular 20amp gfi gen outlets, it would run for about 6 seconds and then pop the gfi on the gen.
I would have to run the micro at 50% pwr for it to work. It's an inverter micro so 50% is really 50%.

Running with the new gen cord, no issue at all. Ran it for a couple of min.
Got a chance to adjust my Hz setting to run at 60 under load as well.

New cord now in storage waiting for the next emergency.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Smoke, trying to follow the logic on the thread above, in simple terms would it be something that would benefit my situation also?


All I was doing was posting out loud about my gen requirements (size) for the appliances (stuff) I need to run.
Seems like a 3000 will do it, Of course because of my micro drawing so much, I will unplug everything else when I need to run it.

I think everyone should know what their (stuff) draws and startup draws when planning for an outage that could last for days.
Or when considering a new gen.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Smoke said:


> All I was doing was posting out loud about my gen requirements (size) for the appliances (stuff) I need to run.
> Seems like a 3000 will do it, Of course because of my micro drawing so much, I will unplug everything else when I need to run it.
> 
> I think everyone should know what their (stuff) draws and startup draws when planning for an outage that could last for days.
> Or when considering a new gen.


i use paint pens or silver or black sharpies to make every thing i run.
that way i can plan my run power.

small rice cooker, crock pots etc work great for long outages!
there are multi use rice cookers now that are under 600 watts.

if you are creative you can make stick on tags by color for run power.

see exactly what your load is!! see the below link;
click here for the generator connection page with panel meter page


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

*Smoke..*.*new starter will not fit into the cavity all the way....also the old one, when lined up with Bolt Holes, the solenoid sits at 9 o clock, between the exhaust manifold and frame.

New one, the solenoid sits against the exhaust manifold and still needs to turn CW so the bolt holes will line up.

Can't think of any way to make the new one fit, just isn't the same orientation as the old one which still slips right in.*


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Unfortunatley it's not the correct part, even though the description says it is for your engine. 
Do the return thing in amazon and list the item is listed incorrectly.
Amazon will take care of it. It may take a few contacts as it is a third party but Amazon will reiemburse you, if the vendor does not.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

okay.........disappointed but don't know anything else I can do. Thanks for the reply.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Hi Smoke, wanted to get your opinion or anyone else following this thread, regarding the response from the 3rd party who lists the product on Amazon.





Count​Product Name and ASIN​1​







 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise) 
ASIN: B08BBWYL94 
 

 Hello charles,
We're so sorry to have inconvenienced you.
The product you received is no problem. Our products are clockwise. There is no problem with the product design.
After analysis by our professional technicians, to achieve the effect you described, it must be refited.
Thank you for your understanding and support.
Have a nice day!
Sincerely,
ZHEDAN-US after-sales customer service



....and my reply:

Hi, received your e-mail ....and don't follow what your saying/suggesting?

The starter you sent me will not rotate enough for me to line up the bolt holes.

The exhaust manifold is preventing it from lining up with them because the solenoid is pressed against the exhaust manifold.

Your starter lacks approximately 1" of rotation for the bolt holes to line up.
but the present solenoid orientation, would still be in direct contact with the exhaust manifold.

The starter I removed, the solenoid was at the 9 o'clock position when installed while the one I received from you is at the 11 o'clock position and needs to rotate to the 12 o'clock position for the bolt holes to line up.....
which would still have the solenoid in direct contact with the exhaust manifold.

So I'm puzzled as to what you are referring to in your e-mail.

Thank you


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Hi Smoke, wanted to get your opinion or anyone else following this thread, regarding the response from the 3rd party who lists the product on Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See what their next reply is, looking at the picture of the unit and their first reply I don't understand them either.
But who knows perhaps they have a way it can be done we are not seeing.

Wait a day or two for their reply, if it still doesn't not work and they insist it does, contact Amazon, they will use their abc guaranty and the money will be refunded to you in a few days.

Edit, is it the manifold getting in the way or just the muffler? Would it fit/work if the muffler was changed to a different style?


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Hi *Smoke.*...Thank you for your reply....I had to think and go out to look at the Generator to determine if it was the manifold or muffler. 


*Edit, is it the manifold getting in the way or just the muffler? Would it fit/work if the muffler was changed to a different style? *

The manifold and muffler are one complete assembly. Hadn't thought about if a different assembly would work or not.

They did send me an e-mail, which.....well you read it and see what you interpret from it.




1​







 12V Diesel Engine Start Motor Pump For 170F 173F 178F 186F 188F 192F Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Electric Starter Generator Set (Clockwise) 
ASIN: B08BBWYL94 
 

 Hello charles,
We're so sorry to have inconvenienced you.
According to the problem you describe, our technical staff said that our products are temporarily unable to achieve the effect you want. We are sorry for this.
If you are willing to keep this product, we are willing to refund $30 as compensation.
If you are not willing, you can return the product. We will give you a full refund.
Thank you for your understanding and support.
Looking forward to your reply.
Have a nice day!
Sincerely,
ZHEDAN-US after-sales customer service



...still don't follow some of their thinking. Why would I want to keep an item that doesn't fit the generator I have,

It almost sounds like a computer generated message...and if it is, she is very nice as to be willing to provide a refund.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Hi *Smoke.*...Thank you for your reply....I had to think and go out to look at the Generator to determine if it was the manifold or muffler.
> 
> 
> *Edit, is it the manifold getting in the way or just the muffler? Would it fit/work if the muffler was changed to a different style? *
> ...


Probably what they are doing is trying to save shipping and restocking charges by having you keep it for $30 .
they ARE offering a refund if you ship it back, you may have to pay for the shipping.

What I would do... Check to make sure the starter works, test it off the engine.
If it does work and spins the correct way...
I would remove the manifold and muffler, attach the starter and test it again, it will of course be loud.
If it works, I would look for a different style muffler that will work.

I haven't replaced mufflers for a long time, but when you remove the old muffler see if the "hole" is threaded, there are mufflers that simply screw in.
There are also flexible extension pipes to relocate a muffler.

If the starter works, get the 30 buck discount and use that for a new muffler design that works.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay, I'll try what you suggested...was looking at what I paid for their muffler and it was $63.13 which I would gladly pay for the correct one.

Let you know how the trouble shooting turns out.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Okay, I'll try what you suggested...was looking at what I paid for their muffler and it was $63.13 which I would gladly pay for the correct one.
> 
> Let you know how the trouble shooting turns out.


Ok cool, btw you don't have to get "their" muffler, just one that fits with the starter and stays out of the way, because it's hot


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

I've been searching for my glasses since your last post...definitely gonna need them. Those mufflers, like you said, are definitely Hot.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

*Smoke*....... been working/scratching my head, since your last post. I pulled the top cover off and eventually I was able to get the starter holes lined up. A lot of the time I spent researching ideas about a different ex-manifold and pipe.

Finally decided to try again and was able to line up both hole but solenoid still touches the exhaust Manifold.
Only thing I did different was remove the panel over the de-compress lever. I put some medium strength thread locker (blue) on the starter bolts and will try to start it after I recover...I'm wiped out.

I have to sort out the wires, Red and yellow from control panel, yellow has female adapter and the male end is on the solenoid. Solenoid has 2 threaded lugs, 1 goes to the starter and the other must go to Pos. post on battery.
Battery has a ground going to the frame...so not sure where the red wire with the eyelet goes. Has to be one of the lugs on the solenoid.

Thanks for all your help.

Charles


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Great you got it to fit, take a break  
I have looked at pictures of the 178f engine and it seems as though the solenoid aluminum "housing" does touch the exhaust manifold where it bolts to the engine.
But the actual solenoid does not. If that is the case It seems normal. 

The wiring I am really guessing myself, but if you look at the picture on amazon of the starter you purchased, there is a wire with a rubber boot on it coming out of the starter going to the solenoid. Seems to bolt to .stud on the right side as you look at them. (engine side) It may already be attached.
The other Is for the large red positive cable. There should be another small red wire that goes on the same stud as the positive cable.

Finally another small wire plugs onto the stub (no nut) color unknown.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Picture of "current 178f engine. starter side.



https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.51/kno.a2b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/57-5-28.jpg?time=1600296135


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

*Smoke Thank you for the link, mine looks similar to the one you posted with the solenoid not touching the exhaust manifold.

The new and my old starter and solenoid looks like the one pictured but mine is a lot older.

Thank you for explaining the wire set up. That boot and wire does go from starter to solenoid and I agree the red wire does go on the lug that the battery Pos. wire bolts to.

When the generator is running, does it also keep the battery charged? *


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> *Smoke Thank you for the link, mine looks similar to the one you posted with the solenoid not touching the exhaust manifold.
> 
> The new and my old starter and solenoid looks like the one pictured but mine is a lot older.
> 
> ...


The engine magneto generates the electricity to charge the battery when the engine is running.
I don't believe the "Generator" that produces emergency elec charges the battery though.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay, I've never thought that through but assumed the battery had to have something keeping it charged. Thanks


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Okay, I've never thought that through but assumed the battery had to have something keeping it charged. Thanks


Unless you run your generator often, your battery will lose power just sitting waiting for an emergence to happen.
I use this... Automatic Battery Float Charger

I use one on my riding mower, and on my car, been doing that for around 7 yrs now, works very well.
It only maintains the charge in the battery, it doesn't charge it. So it needs to be plugged in all the time.

They usually go on sale for $5, I bought a few of them in case one burns out. 

Let us know when you get the generator/starter working.

Smoke


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

I've had that same problem with batteries, Thank you for the tip and I will pick up several.

Usually I try and crank them and sometimes have to break out the jumper cables.

Hope to have it running shortly (this morning) I'm gonna have to buy a battery for it....would you know off hand how many amp battery I should get?


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

The manual states 
"all diesel generators need to have a battery with a minimum of 36 ~ 38 amp hours"
The picture in the manual shows a 6-ma-28s Flying eagle battery whatever that is.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Flying Eagle, I'm like you, never heard that brand before but I'll get the 36-38 amp hours battery. Thank you and I'll get back with you when I get it cranked. Instead of making a trip to town, I think I'll put my riding LM battery in to see if all the hook ups are correct..


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Smoke, must have wiring issues...LM Batt. is 235 cranking amps and when I turned on the key, the solenoid made a noise and that's all.

Tried touching the two posts on solenoid w/ screwdriver and still nothing. Batt. is putting out 12.47 volts.
So it might be a while before I figure out what is wrong.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

Just a note, cranking amps is not the same as amp hours, the battery may not be powerful enough.
I remember old (fords) having a separate solenoid, if the battery was weak it would just make a clicking sound.

If you have one, I would try an electric charger/starter, the starter of course.
Or jumper cables to a car battery.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Okay, I have charger and cables..but jumper cables sound the easiest to do. Thank you,.


I remember old (fords) having a separate solenoid, if the battery was weak it would just make a clicking sound. 

I have them on 4 vehicles, so know what you mean.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Did the jumper cables and it started right up. Making a clanging noise tho....may need to shim the starter,

Tried it on rope and didn't make the clanging noise so definitely must be starter/flywheel alignment.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Did the jumper cables and it started right up. Making a clanging noise tho....may need to shim the starter,
> 
> Tried it on rope and didn't make the clanging noise so definitely must be starter/flywheel alignment.


Great at least it started, so the wiring is good, the starter works, and the clockwise direction is correct.
I'm not sure about the clanging noise, strange it doesn't do it with hand start. Perhaps shimming.

It does seem though that a diesel requires a stronger battery for starting, which means more $

At least it's functional


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Did the jumper cables and it started right up. Making a clanging noise tho....may need to shim the starter,
> 
> Tried it on rope and didn't make the clanging noise so definitely must be starter/flywheel alignment.


Just thinking about it, it could be a bad bendix spring, one thing to try is right after starting rap the starter with something and see if the clanging noise goes away.

One thing you don't want to do is leave the starter engaged to the engine flywheel while running the engine, that could/will damage the starter.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

*Just thinking about it, it could be a bad bendix spring, one thing to try is right after starting rap the starter with something and see if the clanging noise goes away*. 

It only makes the clanging noise while the starter is engaging the F. Wheel to start it then it's quite. But I will crank it w/starter and rap the starter and then turn the Gen, off. Then I'll start it again and see if the noise has gone away or still making the clanging noise.

Just seems peculiar that it only does it with the starter and not when you pull the rope to start it.

I'll get back with you when I have done the above. Thank you for your advice.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> *Just thinking about it, it could be a bad bendix spring, one thing to try is right after starting rap the starter with something and see if the clanging noise goes away*.
> 
> It only makes the clanging noise while the starter is engaging the F. Wheel to start it then it's quite. But I will crank it w/starter and rap the starter and then turn the Gen, off. Then I'll start it again and see if the noise has gone away or still making the clanging noise.
> 
> ...


Ah I didn't understand, not the bendix spring then, forget about rapping the starter.
I believe you were correct it's a matter of shimming.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Smoke said:


> Unless you run your generator often, your battery will lose power just sitting waiting for an emergence to happen.
> I use this... Automatic Battery Float Charger
> 
> I use one on my riding mower, and on my car, been doing that for around 7 yrs now, works very well.
> ...


I use Ctek battery charger maintainers on everything. I just had to replace the battery on my riding mower, and took the old one in for exchange and learned that I had it for five years. I have the maintainers on the mower, my big generator, the wife's car and my diesel truck with two batteries. Batteries will still go bad but they last much longer when a maintainer is used. On the car and truck they are installed under the hood and I have an extension cord exiting through the grill so they are plugged in nightly


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

*jkingrph Ctek has a broad range of battery charger maintainers...so you permanently attach them to the underside of your hood and plug them in a wall receptacle each day/night or when your not going to use the vehicle for an extendible amount of time?
*


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Update on Generator... starter is cranking it fine, a little noise that sounds odd but I am planning to remove it and examine the gear teeth. Some of the noise might be the orientation of the starter with the exhaust manifold.

Just glad to have a starter, so I will check the few things I mentioned and if it still makes the noise, it will just make the noise. Better for me to have a starter with a little noise during crank up than no starter at all.


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## Smoke (Aug 21, 2020)

PiscBc2 said:


> Update on Generator... starter is cranking it fine, a little noise that sounds odd but I am planning to remove it and examine the gear teeth. Some of the noise might be the orientation of the starter with the exhaust manifold.
> 
> Just glad to have a starter, so I will check the few things I mentioned and if it still makes the noise, it will just make the noise. Better for me to have a starter with a little noise during crank up than no starter at all.


Great to hear you have it set up and working.
As far as the noise goes, if this is for emergency use only, consider just how often the starter will actually get used per year as far as any wear goes.

As you know about looking for wear on the gear teeth, if you paint the teeth white on the starter, reinstall and start a few times the wear pattern will be more apparent.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Thanks Smoke, I appreciate all your help...let you know the results of the wear pattern.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Hi *Smoke*, do you know what the male connector is for the *ETQ *plug in...the one that connects to the generator?
It has 4 blades/connection...I got these Letters and numbers off of the female connecting point on the generator.
*WC596/120-1 20A-125/250VGRDG. *This if for connecting the Generator to the house. Thanks


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

see the page below
click here for the outlet wiring and cord pages
L1 is black L2 is red.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

Thanks Paul for the link for the wiring diagrams. I went back and looked at the outlet and it also has, NEMA L14-20 stamped into it.

The closest loking connector in the diagrams is the L14-20R. The receptacle for the Breaker panel is 3-prong but has 4 locations for wires.

I'm trying to load some pictures to give a visual of what everything looks like, so far haven't been able too.

What gauge and type wire would I need to make the connection to the 2 connectors?

The generator will be at least 25' from the B.P. tie in.

Charles


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

fat is nice!!
always go the next larger size from the charts.
at 20 amps I like 10-4 gauge in the short gen runs.

unless you want to leave room for system expansion later.

I run 6 gauge now on all of the new systems...
that way you have room to change out the breakers and sockets to the larger stuff.
and you only buy and run the wire once. and yes I do like steel conduit.

nice over kill.


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## PiscBc2 (May 6, 2020)

iowagold said:


> fat is nice!!
> always go the next larger size from the charts.
> at 20 amps I like 10-4 gauge in the short gen runs.
> 
> ...


Alright, good advice...I like the idea of being set up for expansion. Thanks


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

PiscBc2 said:


> *jkingrph Ctek has a broad range of battery charger maintainers...so you permanently attach them to the underside of your hood and plug them in a wall receptacle each day/night or when your not going to use the vehicle for an extendible amount of time?*


That is exactly what I do. When we had a freestanding carport built about 20 years ago, I had electric outlets installed on each side so I could service each vehicle . I may not connect every night, but my wife's Mercury will discharge a battery in about two weeks, if not either run regularly or plugged in to the maintainer if we are gone for any length of time. The maintainers are permanently attached, tied down with zip ties. I actually put an extension cord and run through the grill on each vehicle so it is convenient.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

jkingrph said:


> That is exactly what I do. When we had a freestanding carport built about 20 years ago, I had electric outlets installed on each side so I could service each vehicle . I may not connect every night, but my wife's Mercury will discharge a battery in about two weeks, if not either run regularly or plugged in to the maintainer if we are gone for any length of time. The maintainers are permanently attached, tied down with zip ties. I actually put an extension cord and run through the grill on each vehicle so it is convenient.


yup the new batteries are not as good as they used to be..
and with all the stuff on the modern cars..
drain is an issue even when the car is working proper!!

I use the chargers year round on the fleet.
and use block heaters with a custom y cord for one extension cord connection.
and just unplug the block heaters in the spring and connect them back up when the temps start dipping below 20 deg f at night on the gas units..
and 50 deg f on the diesels.
sure it costs a bit to heat the block.. but it saves on the start up fuel as well as wear on a cold engine...
and saves starters when it is below zero!
click here for the battery charger page
I like the solar brand charger now... they have been working perfect!
and slim size is easy t hide on the late model cars and trucks as well as generators with electric start!


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