# Matching welder to generator



## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

I am looking for a portable flux core welder that can be powered off of my B&S 6250. The generator has an output of 6250 watts with 8500 watts surge capacity. The B&S website doesn't state what the THD of the generator is, which tells me it is not an inverter generator (I don't know much about generators) and probably not going to work well for an inverter welder. Is there an inverter/transformer that I could use between the welder and the generator output? I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on the welder itself because I'm a total novice and I don't need a fancy welder for the occasional homestead repair. There are plenty of options on Amazon (the new HF) that come in less than $100 and probably use fragile Chinese electronics requiring cleaner power than (I think) the 6250 could supply. Am I better off looking for a more expensive transformer welder or even a welder generator combo? 

Thank you


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

That generator is more then enough to power Any welder that uses a standard 120volt 5-20 plug. (Standard wall plug) If you go up to a 240v welder then you need to determine the welders rated power requirement. I wouldn’t go with anything larger then 20amps @ 240v. I can’t imagine a mig welder requiring clean power… maybe a fancy inverter tig welder but also not likely.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> Any welder that uses a stranded 120volt 5-20 plug.


I'm not sure I would want to use any stranded outlet. Maybe if it was located and hooked up it would work better. 

No fools no fun, had to take the shot. I knew what you meant though


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Spacebus said:


> I am looking for a portable flux core welder that can be powered off of my B&S 6250.


I have a Century 80 that is somewhat out of commission. It is a transformer machine, all analog stuff in it from the early '90's. I burned it up a few years ago surpassing its duty cycle (some leads inside melted together and shorted - transformer is still OK). I made new wires for it, just haven't put it all back together yet. I switched to stick welding in the mean time. Now I have a 1966 Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC (restored it last year - fantastic machine) and an Everlast PowerArc 210STL inverter stick machine (small and portable one). 

As to the transformer flux core machine - you could run it on any generator so long as the power was there. I don't think it would give two craps what the THD was - no sensitive electronics.

The Century 80 uses switches to select between 4 different settings (amperages and feed speed). I don't like the design. It was something my dad got way back for fixing lawn mowers and since I've been welding a lot more have come to appreciate lots of flexibility in tuning the performance to the welding environment - and 4 settings doesn't cut it. Thankfully, though, most of the welding I've done with that over the years has needed it max'ed out so I never really used the lighter settings. Even max'ed out it barely cut it with some things (1/4" mild steel was my limit - did better with 1/8", but I did a few projects with 1/4" also). 

The number 1 thing you need to be aware of is good voltage at the welder under load. Without good voltage the performance is going to suffer greatly. This will include the power source, other loads (ideal - keep the welder as the sole load on the circuit or generator), and cabling (if you use a 100ft extension cord that is 16 gauge you're asking for problems - and don't even think about using 30 feet of it and leaving the rest coiled up at the base of the generator - you just made a nice inductor). 

Any inverter machine will constitute "sensitive electronics". So you will need a generator that produces clean power. If you don't see the specs in a particular generator you might be able to get the specs of the alternator. My big generator, for example, is a Central Maine Diesel 15kw unit. They don't offer any info on the THD, however it uses a Mecc Alte alternator - Italian made. Under the spec sheet for the specific alternator model Mecc Alte specifies it as under 4% THD. Good to go! And - that is a really good THD value for such a large rotary generator.

As to welding in general - I have come to a great appreciation for stick welding. I wish dad got a stick welder back in the day and that is what I learned on then. I think it is a process every welder should learn on and maintain, regardless of what other processes they gravitate to over time. The versatility with it is awesome. I have even been doing some aluminum with stick - Crown Alloys Royal 300 rods, they rock. Another thought is that having a solid transformer welder that does both AC and DC with infinite amperage adjustment (not a selector switch for predefined amperages) is a very nice thing to have, even though they are big and weigh a ton. They are robust and won't likely burn up on your usual garage welding stuff. That way if you get an inverter machine later and the inverter takes a dump (which it will at some point) you have the big transformer machine to fall back on and keep on keepin' on. Sure, you can't move it very easy, but it will work when all else fails. 

If you are really set in stone on flux core then look for a transformer machine that has adjustable feeder speed and weld power (I think flux core is CC and you vary the voltage). Though, I presume the "electronics" are going to be part of the variable setting controls - power and feeder speed - and those are what will not take kindly to high THD power. 

Good luck with it!


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> I have a Century 80 that is somewhat out of commission. It is a transformer machine, all analog stuff in it from the early '90's. I burned it up a few years ago surpassing its duty cycle (some leads inside melted together and shorted - transformer is still OK). I made new wires for it, just haven't put it all back together yet. I switched to stick welding in the mean time. Now I have a 1966 Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC (restored it last year - fantastic machine) and an Everlast PowerArc 210STL inverter stick machine (small and portable one).
> 
> As to the transformer flux core machine - you could run it on any generator so long as the power was there. I don't think it would give two craps what the THD was - no sensitive electronics.
> 
> ...


The main thing I want to do is weld some bale spear receivers onto my FEL pallet fork frame. Unplanned use would be field repairs on my tractor/implements. For instance, the quick attach plate for my root rake grapple has seen better days and I know some day I'll have to repair it or replace it. Either way will require me to weld. I like flux core due to living on the edge of the earth and not having access to welding gas, plus the cost of the bottles, transport, etc. Welding with shield gas is definitely easier for me, but I want portability. Especially if something breaks out in the woods while harvesting trees. Maybe once I'm more experienced I'd like to build a cage for my tractor, but that's not any time soon. 

This welder meets all the specs I would need in a machine at my skill and use level. Does it have the sensitive inverter electronics? This is also the price range in which I am looking. If I ever find myself welding all the time or for a living I would certainly want something with a longer duty cycle, but I also wouldn't need to be using a generator either.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Stick welding doesn't use gas at all. The rods you use are flux coated and the arc burning the rod and flux is what shields it. 

I understand your reasons for wanting flux core - those are sound reasons. I have a buddy of mine that all he welds is flux core on a big MIG machine, like 350 amp on a cart. Yeah, he can run gas and do MIG but he sticks to flux core for much the same reasons - and he welds outside the shop and any breeze will blow the shielding gas anyway. 

I still say stick is more versatile - and less to go wrong (on the machine side - for example, no moving parts like a feed roller motor). 

As to the machine in the link - that is stated as being an "inverter" machine. IE - it uses transistors to generate the output weld power, not a transformer. So yes - there is a computer that is driving the output of the transistors. 

You might look in to used listings like Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist. I found my Idealarc 250 on Facebook Marketplace for $150 or so. I haven't done anything to it, electrically speaking, aside from cleaning the polarity switch contacts. All the restoration work I did was cosmetic - took down to bare metal, hammered out some dings, and repainted. My point - the machines are out there. Even if a machine looks rough it might still weld fine.

The most common stick welder is the Lincoln AC 225. This is the epitome of a "tombstone welder". There is a version that does have DC. These are far less common than the AC only ones. If you can find a deal on one I would say to snag it, but the downside to all these is that they use a selector switch to set the welding current. The secondary on the transformer has multiple taps - which is what the selector switch selects between. These DO NOT have infinitely variable current adjustment. For heavier welding - above about 1/8" - this would be OK. However, you can not finesse the arc to get the exact performance you want for the rod you're using - especially on lighter welding. I use 5/64" 7014 rods for light, non-critical stuff and just a few amps one way or the other can make a large difference in the performance. Mind you, this is down between 40-60 amps - quite on the low side. With a switch that only allows 1 setting in that amperage range you are on a hunt to try many different rods to get the right mix of rod burn, penetration, arc performance, and overall weld quality. Read that again - in other words - your rod you weld with is another "variable" just like with flux core welding where the feed speed and weld power adjustments are 2 variables, but also the wire diameter and type changes things also. That is part of the art of welding - knowing your machine and what the variables you do have control over do. If you set yourself up with a fully adjustable machine then you can tune around what otherwise are shortcomings in narrow rod options (it is not common to have 25 different rod types and sizes in stock - most people only have 3-4, for example, I have about 13-15 - including aluminum rods). 

Here is an example of a used listing for an Idealarc 250. This is the same config mine is, in a bit better shape than mine was, albeit for a lot more $. If you watch the listings you can find these for under $200. With the 3 wheel carts like this are rare - and will usually fetch a higher price (you can wheel these around, without a cart they are a PITA to move). 




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This century 125 would be a good place to start looking with older analog (non-inverter) flux core machines. 




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At 125 amps flux core you will be good to about 1/4" mild steel. The little 80 amp machine I've had will do 1/4" in a pinch, but that really is too heavy for it. 3/16" is about max, 1/8" welds pretty good. 

If you plan on welding any thicker metal then you are going to want a 200-250 amp class flux core machine. Another reason to look at stick welders - economical higher power welding. The Idealarc 250, running AC, will do 300 amps. However, it would take a 3/16"-7/32" rod or so to hold that current. Even with a 5/32" rod (still considered a "large" rod) you are likely going to be in the upper 100's to low 200's. 1/8" rods are between about 90-175. There isn't anything a garage welder could weld that would take more than a 200 amp stick machine - thats some mega welding. A buddy of mine repairs farm implements for his family farm and all he runs are 3/32" rods - smaller than 1/8". 6011, 6013, and 7018 (machine is a Lincoln AC 225, not a DC version just AC only). Those rods run down around 125-150a on the high end for 7018, 80-110 for 6011/6013. So it can be done, but it would take a lot of rods and a lot of passes to lay the metal down with 3/32" rod compared to what you could do with, say, 5/32" rod.

For field repairs, especially 1st root pass, 6010 rods are awesome. Nothing bites like 6010's - but they are hard rods to run and learn. Transformer machines will run them as the open circuit voltage (OCV) is usually higher (over 70v or so). Inverter machines struggle with them - even those said to run them. Some machines will have a setting you can put the machine in, or another output to connect to, that will be specifically for running 6010 rods. Still, not all these machines will have suitable performance and they can be next to impossible to learn how to run 6010 on. 6011 rods are the next in line - they also penetrate like 6010, but they are a bit different. If you have dirty, rusty metal to weld you want the 6010 rods so I'd anticipate that. Once you get metal stuck together with a decent 6010 pass then fill and cap with 7018 for structural stuff - you get the most ductile weld metal with the 7018 (it is labeled as a "low hydrogen rod", but unless you are welding critical stuff with special carbon steel alloys it doesn't mean much - mild steel has hydrogen in it so there is nothing to gain by keeping the rod "dry"). If you want single pass - tack with 6010 to hold the work, then run 7018 straight - so long as the work is CLEAN (no paint, oil, and rust ground out). You may find from old-timers that they "only" use 6013 rod, or they "only" use 6011 rod. There are surprising welding jobs that have held with those rods, but they aren't always the best choice - 6013, in particular, is brittle. For thin, non-critical stuff 6013 can be great. It's best attribute is it is easy to run = easy to learn with. But you want a bit of variety and for that I would pass on 6013 all together and go to 6010, 6011, and 7018. You could drop 6011 and only run 6010 and 7018 and still cover a lot if you want to trim your options way down, but you'll loose some thin metal performance dropping 6011. 

I like options so I stock 6010, 6011, 6013 (3/32" only), 7014, and 7018 for steel. I use all but 6013. As for 7014 - I only use it on small/thin stuff that isn't very critical. 6010, 6011, 7018 I have 3/32", 1/8", and 5/32", 7014 I have 1/16", 5/64", and 1/8". The 1/16" rods are hard to run (very flexible), 5/64" does take more current but they are easier to control so those get more use in my world. I also have 1/8" and 3/32" 7018-AC but I don't like it. It gets porosity on starts. I switched to Jetweld 7018 LH-78-MR and it runs beautifully (DC only). In a pinch, if I had to weld in AC mode the 7018-AC would stick metal together, but I'd rather steer clear of it.

What ever way you go with a welder - put it through its paces and see what it will do. Practice also. Technique is 75% of welding. The other 25% is the equipment. Ensure your voltage at the welder is good otherwise your arc performance will suffer. Ensure you get good continuity to the work through the clamp and cables. And... Avoid welding through moving joints. This would be like hydraulic cylinders, bearings, and bushings. You don't want your "ground" connection going through any moving parts - if there isn't good continuity through there you can arc over those joints and frig things. So ensure you have a good ground to your work at the work (there are a million ways of getting a work/ground connection - bolting, clamping, vice grips, magnetic, etc, etc). Just don't reach over and ground over a mechanical joint out of convenience.


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

I am probably going to bolt my generator and any welder to a skid so I can move it with the tractor. Is the Lincoln AC 225 any good? I found a few for sale with cheap shipping and they are tempting.


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

Also, can that Idealarc run off of my B&S 6250? The plate on the Idealarc calls for 230v 46a and my generator is listed as 240v 30a, with 26a operating.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

I like the skid idea. If you have a means to move skids that solves a LOT of issues with everything needing to be moved from time to time. 

As to the AC 225 - that is what my buddy runs at his garage. For what they are, they are decent machines. That is the epitome of a "tombstone welder". 

However, the 2 drawbacks to that machine are:

AC only. You can't run DC rods like 6010 and the better 7018 rods.
Switchable amperage, NOT infinite amperage. You can not finesse the current to get the best performance out of a rod, this mainly pertains to the lower end of the welding amperage range for small stuff. Once you get to around 1/8" thick mild steel then finessing the amperage is less of a concern.

There are versions of that machine that do DC also - they have a 2nd dial to select between AC, DC+, and DC-. These are harder to find as you have found - but having DC already will give you the ability to run DC rods. That would be a huge plus, although you would still be limited to the amperages that your switch gets you to. 

Miller Thunderbolts, Century 220/140 AC/DC, and Lincoln Idealarcs are all infinitely variable current adjustment machines. The heavier the better, typically the older the better. 

Also note that more modern AC 225's (and AC/DC 225's) are lighter weight due to lighter windings in their transformers. I have heard they have used aluminum windings, either at some point in the past, or current. The old school ones will be copper wound and weigh noticeably more. There is no substitute for mass in terms of arc performance and reliability (harder to over-heat a more massive transformer and reactor/choke). That is where the Idealarc's really shine - they are tanks in many ways. Back in the 60's to about 1980 they didn't know how to make things cheap... so they just made them good.

If you can find an AC/DC 225 for a decent price I say give it a try. I would shy away from the AC-only version as you really do get a lot more with DC.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Just another quick note on the differences between AC and DC stick welding - 99% of the time you will get the best weld performance with DC - much smoother arc, less spatter. However, the 1% of the time you don't is if the base metal you are welding is magnetized. When welding on magnetized metal the magnetism will bend a DC arc and make it extremely difficult to control. For this reason - AC is used. Yes, with AC you get the spatter etc. But considering welding is all compromises and balancing things to what you can accept (or what specs call for if you are doing code work) - using AC on magnetized metal is a better option than fighting a wandering arc. 

Where you may find magnetized metal is ground engaging implements. The knives or disks can become magnetized working ground, maybe not significantly, but even a slight amount of magnetizing can make an arc wander.

In the construction industry it is common to see magnetized metal with pilings - for bridges, foundations, etc. As the pilings are pounded in the ground they become magnetized.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Well I feel motivated. I never stick welded, just mig and tig, but I think it’s about time I give it a go. I’m thinking about building a log arch for my trailer.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> Well I feel motivated. I never stick welded, just mig and tig, but I think it’s about time I give it a go. I’m thinking about building a log arch for my trailer.


Must watch. If you look up this guy's youtube channel he has a whole series of videos on the design and fabrication of the trailer.





I know, more motivation. 

So chop chop. Get a move on


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

His videos are how this all got started. lol.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> His videos are how this all got started. lol.


 Well I'm glad to know I'm not alone with the disease.

On a serious note, there are some good "documentaries" out there on some cool projects. There is another guy that made an off-road articulating dump truck about the size of a Gator, or a hair bigger. His theme is all his tools and welding equipment is from Harbor Freight. 

All those projects are fuel for a lot of peoples' ideas. 

For digging in to the welding subject check out the welding web forums. Just FYI - there are some people on the forums that like to "stir the pot" and "flame throw". Unfortunately, that can steer thread discussion so far down the tube the threads loose their purpose. If you pick through the replies you can figure out what is of substance and what is just pot-stirring.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

amen!


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Well I feel motivated. I never stick welded, just mig and tig, but I think it’s about time I give it a go. I’m thinking about building a log arch for my trailer.


That's the kind of think I'd like to build. I have a skidding winch, but I still have to drag the butts on the ground doing considerable damage when the ground is not frozen. 


Looks like I'll be trying to find a sub $300 Idealarc.


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

I'm not even sure I could run a Lincoln 225 stick welder off my generator, it calls for 50 amps input power. I'm starting to think I'll need a bigger generator or not going to be stick welding with the generator I have.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Spacebus said:


> I'm not even sure I could run a Lincoln 225 stick welder off my generator, it calls for 50 amps input power. I'm starting to think I'll need a bigger generator or not going to be stick welding with the generator I have.


That is at max power. 

I ran my Idealarc 250 off a 30 amp circuit until a few months ago. The input current is proportional to your welding current. If you run small rods - say, 3/32" - and keep the weld current down around 100 amps your input power will be relatively low. With current in to the 100's - maybe around 110-120 amps or so - the current draw was over 40 amps on the circuit. Because breakers are delayed I was able to run that for a good amount of time - the time between switching rods was good cool-down time for the circuit.

However, yes - you need real power to weld. If you are welding thin stuff you can get by with less, but if you are going to be welding things that are actually getting worked - implements, machines - you need some real power. 

30 amps at 240v is 7200 watts. You can do a decent amount with that, but truthfully that is on the light side. If you can get a legitimate 40 amps (without much voltage sag under that load), or 9600 watts, you'll be in better shape.

With an inverter machine you get a lot more welding ability with less input power. HOWEVER - you are also running "sensitive electronics". So you can't simply switch to an inverter machine on the set up you have; you will blow up your inverter machine pretty fast as they can't handle dirty power. So you're kinda stuck with a transformer machine. 

There are no methods of "cleaning up" or "filtering" "dirty power". The power has to be generated cleanly. Not only that, but loads running off the power source will affect how clean the overall power is (some loads will add "trash" to the power). If you look at the difference between an alternator/rotary style generator and an inverter - the alternator style is generating the actual AC power at the alternator - the armature spinning inside the windings is what creates the AC power. An inverter takes DC power on the input of the inverter then uses a computer to modulate/regulate the AC output. It doesn't matter what the power is coming in to the inverter because the computer drives the AC power output - it makes what it wants, so long as it has enough input power for the demand. An alternator tries but it has no brain to "create what it wants". What comes out is what you get. If the power isn't overly clean there isn't any computer working with it to make it what the computer wants because it isn't there. 

The only way you could "clean up" the power of a dirty generator is to use a UPS where a battery bank is used and the load is powered off an inverter off that battery. The problem is those UPS's likely won't even run off dirty power. That and you aren't going to find a high-wattage UPS. They are for smaller electronic loads like computers - not to power your whole house.

You could get a large alternative energy inverter (like a Sigineer 15kw or 18kw split phase unit). However, you would have to have batteries with the power behind them to output the power you need - and the charge power going back in to the system to keep it floating. Considering you would be in the ballpark of $3-4,000 for the inverter alone, not including batteries, I would think this would be an impractical solution as you could get a heck of a generator for under 1/2 the cost of the inverter (I picked up a 15kw never used gen for $1k, for example).

There are ways. A larger generator is a nice thing to have. 

One last thought - engine drive welders are out there. The Lincoln SA-200 and SA-250 are legends. The interesting thing about them, 2 really, is they are DC-only welders (the alternators are not AC at all = can't be used as AC power generators) and they produce one of the smoothest welding arcs ever created - because they are DC-only. If I could get an engine drive machine, one of these days, I would love to have one myself. They can be pricey in good condition, but if you keep your eyes open and know what to look for you can find them. 

Oddly enough, several people have found some in dumps for the taking that haven't required THAT much rebuilding - just they quit working and people don't want to mess with them so they get dropped off at the dump to rot. What can snag you on the engine drives, however, is the alternators. If they are in really rough shape and the alternators are messed up the windings could be trash. There are (very few anymore, but I think some are still around) motor repair shops around bigger cities that can rebuild these. Its a lost art and where a lot of these places are going by the way of the dodo bird is maintaining the chemicals used - hazmat regs. There are parts out there, though, and it might even be an endeavor of getting 2 or 3 units to swap parts on to make 1 good one. But the result would be worth it. 

Hobart and Miller make engine drives also - they use AC alternators so you can use them as AC power generators also, but that isn't their main purpose. If you had a unit like this I wouldn't be inclined to use it as a home back up generator. For a job site generator to run equipment while you're welding that is one thing - because you need the unit running to weld anyway so why not get some AC power off it too? Otherwise, if you're running it just for the AC power you're packing hours on it that otherwise you wouldn't be racking up. Just me, but I'd rather have a separate power generator. 

Just a thought - if you got a big power generator you could run any welder you want. My 15kw does just that. If I had to I could wheel both the gen and the Idealarc in the truck and weld anywhere. Though, thats why I have the inverter machine - its no bigger/heavier than my Century 80 flux core and I can do a ton more with it. But I can run all of them so if (when) the inverter takes a dump I can still keep on keepin' on, so long as I'm close to home where I can get to the Idealarc.

The 15kw gen I have is 62 amps starting/56 amps running or there abouts. With the Idealarc down around 100-120 amps - that and under constitutes about 95% of everything I'd ever weld - it won't even hit 50 amps draw. At 62 amps I can probably get up to around 150-175 amps. 

Other than welding 2 rods together to run together so I can crank up the amps to torture test circuits I have no reason to run that high in practice, period. 










You want to talk about a burly weld... Left was what the 2x 5/32" 6011's together laid down. If actually welding you wouldn't run 2 rods like this - you can't control the arc out of 2 rods (the only double rod method I am aware of that people do use welding is the "Texas Tig" method - using 1 rod for the arc and 1 dead rod [not connected] as more filler metal). I was load testing the circuit here and needed the 2 rods to hold the heat. I don't have rods bigger than 5/32" and they won't take much over 200 amps. I think this double rod burn was 225-250 amps.

Right is the bead from a single 5/32" 7018 for comparison. Still a burly bead.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

for me a gasoline or diesel powered mobile welder works!
they are made for doing remote welding...

we use lincoln multi p welders.

they make a dandy little suitcase inverter unit that will stick, and tig with the proper kit.
and they will work off both 125 vac and 250 vac.
there are two power cords to make the selection.

we used a spool gun a while back on thin stuff remote. (1/4 inch)
worked well to place back on fenders on a trailer that got side swiped on the interstate.

if you are welding larger stuff you need a better higher power welder to get a real good weld.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> they make a dandy little suitcase inverter unit that will stick, and tig with the proper kit.
> and they will work off both 125 vac and 250 vac.
> there are two power cords to make the selection.


The problem for the OP is those inverter machines constitute "sensitive electronics". With dirty power/high THD power the inverter welders won't last very long at all. So that is where transformer welders come in - and thats where transformer stick welders are really nice. 

If the OP were to get a different generator that was low-THD/clean power (they do exist out there - my 15kw is under 4% THD, for example) then running an inverter welder wouldn't be much of an issue. At that point - get a bigger generator. Likewise, at that point - why not get an engine drive welder? I would be of the mindset to start off that a big generator and a plug-in welder (not an engine drive welder) would be more versatile as you have a lot of AC power for everything - including home back up. However, for welding only its a lot of "stuff" to juggle. Likewise, a dedicated engine drive is another piece of equipment to store and another piece of equipment to maintain that has 1 purpose, not versatile in many purposes. 

If you could get away with running a suitcase inverter welder off a dirty power generator the conundrum would be immediately solved. However, I would steer the OP well clear of trying to run an inverter off that generator. He may get away with it, but the risk of smoking the computer in the inverter welders is too high for me to want to take a chance with it. If you aren't on a budget and can get 3-4 welding machines to try and you don't care if a couple go up in smoke, then have at it. But for the majority of us that aren't wanting to burn money that easily I think the smart thing here is to not attempt to run an inverter welder off the OP's current generator. A transformer machine - no problem. Have at it.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we use the eu7000i gens.
so clean is not an issue


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

I use a little Esab 161 LTS for fence and gate welding on the ranch, great little 120/240 inverter AC/DC box. I ran it on my old Honda EM-3500 with no issues.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

most of the time the esab and others work well with good quality big name brand generators!


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

I think the generators mentioned, aside from my 6250, are inverter generators and produce less than 3% THD. It looks like I'll be getting an engine driven welder if I want to actually repair my farm equipment. I found a few in the $2,000 price range that would allow me to do whatever I want, but that will wait, I need a flail mower this year.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lots of good engine powered welders out there...
check on bidadoo, machery trader etc!

stick with the BIG name brand units.
lots of good parts sources for them as well.

most units just need a good blow out!
and a little tlc.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Friend of mine bought a Hobart engine driven welder/generator a few months ago, nice unit but they reportedly produce 'dirty' AC power. I wouldn't use one to power electronics. Typical use for the generator feature is to power a grinder - an inductive load that doesn't care about distortion very much.


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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

JJ Ranch said:


> Friend of mine bought a Hobart engine driven welder/generator a few months ago, nice unit but they reportedly produce 'dirty' AC power. I wouldn't use one to power electronics. Typical use for the generator feature is to power a grinder - an inductive load that doesn't care about distortion very much.


I won't need the generator output of a potential welder generator to power anything most likely, I already have a decent 6000 watt generator.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

I've thought about buying a generator/welder for years for the ranch but I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost and I don't need another engine to keep up with. My little Esab is perfect for fence repairs, any major fencing I hire out.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

about the only thing they are good for is running the welder and maybe a grinder and a few lights when working remote.
i would run a power conditioner with the power if you are to use a battery charger etc off the 125 vac on those gen welders.
pm if you need links.

oh yea get the version that will do multi perp welding...
mig tig and stick as well as ac and dc!
that way you always have the right welder for the job at hand!


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

I have a 5k honda I run a 180il inverter mig off. Works wonders. Doesnt seem to have Any issues with the dirty power.

I strongly recommend the dual voltage ones, as that opens alot of options for light duty. They are also super light and much much much more variable than the old transformer units.
The modern inverter MIGs and stick welders are very convenient to move around and carry.

You should have no problems with your machine. 




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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

Matt88-8 said:


> I have a 5k honda I run a 180il inverter mig off. Works wonders. Doesnt seem to have Any issues with the dirty power.
> 
> I strongly recommend the dual voltage ones, as that opens alot of options for light duty. They are also super light and much much much more variable than the old transformer units.
> The modern inverter MIGs and stick welders are very convenient to move around and carry.
> ...


Is your Honda an inverter generator? What's the thickest steel you can weld with your setup?


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

The little Esab 161 LTS MiniArc will run up to 160 amps DC on 240V power. It's one of the best if not the best 'suitcase' welders. I always hated stick welding until I got the Esab and used DC.


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

Spacebus said:


> Is your Honda an inverter generator? What's the thickest steel you can weld with your setup?


It's not. It's an old (80s) EB5000X. But if you look, alot of these inverter welders state they are "able to run off generator power". Stuff isn't as sensitive as people on this fourm are convinced it is..

Thickest rated? Not sure likely 1/4." But I welded a backhoe tie rod back together yesterday that was likely 1" solid stock. You just have to get creative with it. 
I also try to limit trigger time as the Honda's is working pretty hard at full power.

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## Spacebus (Jul 7, 2021)

Matt88-8 said:


> It's not. It's an old (80s) EB5000X. But if you look, alot of these inverter welders state they are "able to run off generator power". Stuff isn't as sensitive as people on this fourm are convinced it is..
> 
> Thickest rated? Not sure likely 1/4." But I welded a backhoe tie rod back together yesterday that was likely 1" solid stock. You just have to get creative with it.
> I also try to limit trigger time as the Honda's is working pretty hard at full power.
> ...


Inverter welders are cheap now, so maybe it is worth a try.


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

Spacebus said:


> Inverter welders are cheap now, so maybe it is worth a try.


It's very much worth a try. I'm rebuilding gates in a dairy barn today. For what they are worth, I've certainly got my $$ back several times over.

IMO arc over mig for farm tasks. Mig has to be very clean, where 6011 burns through pretty much anything 

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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Matt88-8 said:


> It's an old (80s) EB5000X.





Matt88-8 said:


> I also try to limit trigger time as the Honda's is working pretty hard at full power.


You got my curiosity. Is that generator your usual field power? With it being that old - even somewhat routine field work with it would stack a lot of run time on that. What has your maintenance been like on the unit? Do you keep track of run time and do scheduled oil changes? What oil/additives (if any) do you run in it? 

Honda generators are usually considered top notch - rotary and inverter. For the smaller/portable units I'd say they are the best made. Not until you get in to the bigger standby/prime units do you get "higher quality" units. A buddy of mine used to do small engine repair back in that time period - 80's-90's - and there wasn't a small engine on the market that held up like Honda. That has remained very much true through the past couple decades, however recently (last 5 years maybe) Briggs & Stratton reimagined their Vanguard series and has given Hondas GX a serious run for their money. 

Though we're talking engines here - I would venture to guess the alternator (considering that is a "honda generator" and not a "honda engine married with an alternator to make a third party generator") is still quality. Id be curious if you put an oscilloscope (analog or high end digital, unless you get a real high end digital the sample rate hides a lot of resolution that otherwise you'll get with an analog/CRT) on the output of that one what you would get. 

As to the risk of an inverter machine running off a generator - I still maintain the thought that unless the output is known to be clean (under 5% THD) the risk of blowing up an inverter machine is too great for me to attempt it. As to if others want to fly by with that risk that is their choice. You could put a 'scope on the generator and monitor the waveform to see how it reacts to loading. Even if there is no "specification" from the generator manufacturer or alternator manufacturer as to what the THD level is you can see it for yourself and make a determination. As to if you buy a new welder and it blows up on the generator, though, you might hit a brick wall on warranty if it is known you ran the welder off a generator not explicitly specified as outputting "clean power". In my case, my little Everlast is said to require "clean power". They specify that as "under 5% THD". However, because there is a mix of words depending on where you look ("clean power" vs "under 5% THD") if there is a warranty issue the only information I have on the generator I have is from the alternator manufacturer specifying under 4% THD. The generator manufacturer, NOT the alternator manufacturer, makes no claims at all about it being "clean power". Only digging in to the components used in the makeup of the generator - the alternator in this case - and looking at those manufacturers' specs is the THD even found. How will the welder manufacturer look at that if a warranty claim comes up? No idea. I am content with it, though. I know from looking at it with a 'scope it isn't dirty power so the two combined - the low THD spec and viewing it - make me pretty confident it will be fine. The other side of it is my generator is heavy enough that the load from the little inverter welder will be peanuts on it. In other words, I am no where near "maxing out" the generator. That lower loading % will keep the voltage up, the voltage regulation, alternator, etc loafing at a much lower load = the loading isn't going to be way up on its' capacity risking the voltage dipping and the waveform suffering. Other loads at the same time can, however, throw off the THD. Just like the power in your home. If the welder is the sole load - no problem.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Spacebus said:


> I think the generators mentioned, aside from my 6250, are inverter generators and produce less than 3% THD.


Mine is not. It is a Central Maine Diesel 15kw unit. It uses a Honda GX690 engine and a Mecc Alte S20F-230/2 alternator. Here's the spec sheet on the alternator:


https://www.meccalte.com/downloads/s20f.pdf



See the last of the listings in the 60HZ category (2nd half of the page) for the S20F-230.



Spacebus said:


> It looks like I'll be getting an engine driven welder if I want to actually repair my farm equipment. I found a few in the $2,000 price range that would allow me to do whatever I want, but that will wait, I need a flail mower this year.


Engine drives are nice, for sure. If you can handle storing it somewhere, mounting to a trailer, what ever they are nice to have when ya need it.



Spacebus said:


> Inverter welders are cheap now, so maybe it is worth a try.


Do you have access to an analog oscilloscope? If you don't know off the top of your head anyone that has one - ask around. You might be surprised. A good place to ask around is a local ham radio club. Or if you know someone that is in to ham radio - check with them. It is a very common piece of test equipment. You don't need anything special, even a 2 channel 20MHz 'scope will do what you want. I got a 2 channel 50MHz Tektronix 2225 for free - it was literally dumped in my lap from a buddy that acquired it the same way and didn't know how to use it. Its a fantastic basic 'scope and I'll never part with it, maybe if it quits and I can't repair it... but its still well worth trying to repair in my book. 

In any event, check the output waveform. The higher the THD the more distorted the waveform will look. The lower the THD the cleaner the waveform will look. If you have a waveform that is almost a perfect sine wave (very little bumps or skewing of the rise/fall) it should be good to go. If its fuzzy, bumpy, lop-sided, and you can't make out much of a sine wave I'd say forget it.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

This is the inverter welder I have - Everlast Powerarc 210STL:




__





PowerArc 210STL - Stick Welders | Everlast Generators


Take a close look. You'll see that inverter-based PowerARC 210STL is designed with the Professional in mind. But, if you happened to just judge by the price alone, you'd guess that this is a hobby welder. But you'd be wrong.




www.everlastgenerators.com





Looking at the "notes" section this is what it states about generators:

_5) This unit should be used with a clean power generator only. Everlast does not keep an official or approved list of generators. However, the manufacturer of the generator will be able supply this information. This is usually considered to be less than 5% THD. Use a generator rated for 8900 surge watts for 240V, or for 120V operation, 4500 surge watts. Output will be reduced on 120V . _

The full output is 200 amps on 240v. On 120v it limits you to 150 amps, which I still think is on the high side. I have not used it on 120v - no reason as I have had all the 240v power I've needed. If I was in a situation where it just wasn't feasible to get 240v then I may try 120v. However, what bothers me about 120v is garage circuits have so much other "crap" on the circuits that you can't dedicate the circuit to the welder = you can run in to voltage problems. A better solution is to tap an electric dryer outlet for 30 amps 240v. It is easy to make an adapter cable that plugs in to a dryer outlet. I did that all last year and it worked fantastic. Your dryer outlets should be 4 pins (14-30 non-locking). That will give you both 120 and 240 so you could give yourself a 120v tap for tools like grinders also.


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## Matt88-8 (Dec 27, 2018)

@FlyFisher 
I run rotella T4 15w40 (plain stuff) as I do in all my engines that don't have cats. I change it when I gets really dark and dirty. Maybe once a year. It's my only field power, but if I'm in/near a building I can usually steal 120v for my grinder/saw etc. That saves alot of idle hrs. I have no idea how many hours it has, I would guess a few, but the brushes still have some tension, so can't be too high.

It get your concerns, but these little inverter boxes are cheap. I have no idea who makes the generator head, and I don't care to scope it. I suspect it's cleaner than the 4k champion that ran my last welder for like 5+ years. but I don't know or care. Inverter generators are great, but they cost to much, and to get a 240v one they are massive. I just can't justify the cost for what I get.

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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

esab make good welders for sure.

at the industrial job they used esab....
then they switched to Lincoln industrial welders for the better mfg plant iso rating. 
i had a chance at 12 of the old units...
but the line guys ate them up for home projects fast!
they even got rid of the older miller units....
we had a 250 that was a good unit for a mig....
the newer 252 took a longer time to get it dialed in to my stations 3/4 inch plate welding.
after 3 hours of test welds we had great numbers that worked every time.

i was lead on inspection at that plant, welding and electrical mechanical and hyd as well as computer...
lol dream job for me!
we fixed all of the issues we found...
great money! super long hours! BIG equipment...
hard work for sure!


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> i had a chance at 12 of the old units...
> but the line guys ate them up for home projects fast!


Yea surplus equipment can be a good find. I was in the last class going through a program at a college before they closed up shop (literally). They significantly down-sized and moved to another area of campus. After our class was done they went offloading a bunch of equipment - mills and lathes included. If I had a place to put a large lathe, forget the fact they were 480 3-phase, I would have found a way to haul one home. I will kick myself over that one for a long time to come... Yea old equipment can be worn out, but a big lathe like that could still turn and make chips fly nicely, most certainly better than nothing.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I have seen in the days gone by brigeport gear sold by the lb...
i was not at the salvage yard when that happened!

most of the old gear like those would take a lot of abuse!
these days with spray coat etc
you could re work most of the old mills easy....

brocher is one of the cool items we had back in the day.

not sure if any of the doosan etc out of the import countries are any good at holding the numbers like the gear from the 1940's!


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