# Duromax XP12000EH For Portable Standby & Bonded Neutral Mod



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

My wife and I live in north central NC (slightly west) in the Piedmont Triad area close to the Virginia state line. We live in a rural area, but only 10 minutes from a Walmart, so it's not too rural, but enough to be out of the big cities and enjoy the countryside. I recently purchased this generator for portable standby service for the house. I have a propane range, hot water heater and heat pump w/ gas furnace assist so this helps ease the power requirements.

I installed a Reliance PB50 power inlet box outside and that is running to a Generac 60 amp manual transfer switch (#6333) in the basement. I swapped out on of the 60 amp transfer switch breakers for a 100 amp (Note: the 60 amp and 100 amp Generac transfer switches are identical except for the breakers they install in them). The transfer switch is then connected to a 100 amp sub-panel that I installed. The reason I swapped out a 60 amp breaker for a 100 amp breaker is so that I could run all the circuits in the sub-panel while connected to the utility side of the transfer switch.

Wired into the 100 amp sub-panel are the following circuits pulled from my main panel(s):

2.0 ton heat pump (upstairs) & air handler, only one of the heat pumps & air handler will be switched in at any given time.
2.0 ton heat pump (main floor & basement) & air handler
Kitchen fridge, microwave, light/ceiling fan
Living room lights, receptacles
Home office w/ various office equipment (needs to be on generator to run our business)
2 storage freezers
Main bedroom lights, receptacles
Main bathroom lights, receptacles
stairwell lights
Front & back porch lights
Outdoor 50 amp RV temporary power pedestal (only switched in if both HVAC's are not connected)
Various other small current draw circuits for other areas of the house

With all of the above circuits switched in (and only one HVAC unit switched in, as indicated) the voltage on each leg from the generator at the 100 amp sub-panel was 118 and 117 per leg. With all the circuits connected and the HVAC switched in last, the generator rpm dipped slightly momentarily and then stabilized. I ran this test for about 30 minutes and there were no issues.

I also unbonded the neutral (white) from inside the generator case to ground (green/yellow).


----------



## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Nice job.


----------



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

Curious_George said:


> My wife and I live in north central NC (slightly west) in the Piedmont Triad area close to the Virginia state line. We live in a rural area, but only 10 minutes from a Walmart, so it's not too rural, but enough to be out of the big cities and enjoy the countryside. I recently purchased this generator for portable standby service for the house. I have a propane range, hot water heater and heat pump w/ gas furnace assist so this helps ease the power requirements.
> 
> I installed a Reliance PB50 power inlet box outside and that is running to a Generac 60 amp manual transfer switch (#6333) in the basement. I swapped out on of the 60 amp transfer switch breakers for a 100 amp (Note: the 60 amp and 100 amp Generac transfer switches are identical except for the breakers they install in them). The transfer switch is then connected to a 100 amp sub-panel that I installed. The reason I swapped out a 60 amp breaker for a 100 amp breaker is so that I could run all the circuits in the sub-panel while connected to the utility side of the transfer switch.
> 
> ...


*Update 8/14/21*
We lost power twice, once for 6 hours, then six hours later it went out for 7.5 hours. This was the first real test of the XP12000EH. It only took a few minutes to wheel it out of the garage and connect my main cord plus an extension I made to extend the generator about 80 feet from the house to keep the noise down a bit. Although I fully charged the generator battery a few months ago, it was dead when I went to try and start it. The key was not left in the ON position. Not sure why there would be a residual drain on the battery. I'll have to diagnose this. I choked the engine and pull the pull cord and it only took 2 pulls to start. Not bad. Release the choke and it smoothed right out.

With the 7.5 hour run, I still had 1/4 tank of gasoline left, not bad in my opinion. I was running one HVAC unit and all the other items listed above that are connected. Of course not all circuits were used during the power outage. I would say I had a 35% load on the generator intermittently.

I have about 15 hours on this generator so far and it appears to be running great. I'm selling the XP12000EH to upgrade the XP13000EH. I want a little extra capacity to run a 2nd HVAC.


----------



## A guy (Sep 16, 2021)

I have the same setup but a different generator. My generator also has a bonded neutral. Do I need to unbond it? I'm a little fuzzy on this and can't find a clear answer online. Thanks!



Curious_George said:


> Update - 8/14/21
> We lost power twice, once for 6 hours, then six hours later it went out for 7.5 hours. This was the first real test of the XP12000EH. It only took a few minutes to wheel it out of the garage and connect my main cord plus an extension I made to extend the generator about 80 feet from the house to keep the noise down a bit. Although I fully charged the generator battery a few months ago, it was dead when I went to try and start it. The key was not left in the ON position. Not sure why there would be a residual drain on the battery. I'll have to diagnose this. I choked the engine and pull the pull cord and it only took 2 pulls to start. Not bad. Release the choke and it smoothed right out.
> 
> With the 7.5 hour run, I still had 1/4 tank of gasoline left, not bad in my opinion. I was running one HVAC unit and all the other items listed above that are connected. Of course not all circuits were used during the power outage. I would say I had a 35% load on the generator intermittently.
> ...


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

A guy said:


> I have the same setup but a different generator. My generator also has a bonded neutral. Do I need to unbond it? I'm a little fuzzy on this and can't find a clear answer online. Thanks!


Generally speaking, if you're connecting your generator to the house's main panel, the generator should have a floating neutral so that the only bonding point is at the panel.


----------



## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)




----------



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

*Update 1/3/22*
I now have the XP13000EH generator and it is performing good so far. Power went out this morning and looks like it will be out for most of the day. The 13000 can easily run two 2.0 ton HVAC's (with gas furnace, not electric heat) and other misc loads if you conserve power. Very nice.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

stay safe down there!
yea old mom nature is a real pain right now...
and 2022 is shaping up to be more of the same we have seen in the last 2 years on storms.

we have the cold here in Iowa right now...
at least we missed the ice and went right to snow and cold.


----------



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

Had that front come thru last night and had snow this morning. Probably a tree or huge branch fell on a power line close by. It's only our road being effected and you can see the line coming in from across the cow pasture.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

be careful with lines down in the area.
that power can travel a long way in wet or wet snow! 

stay safe out there!


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Curious_George said:


> *Update 1/3/22*
> I now have the XP13000EH generator and it is performing good so far. Power went out this morning and looks like it will be out for most of the day. The 13000 can easily run two 2.0 ton HVAC's (with gas furnace, not electric heat) and other misc loads if you conserve power. Very nice.


Everytime someone posts about a current outage I can’t help but get jealous. lol.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol!
i am just glad i do not have to put the hours on the gens!
that 10k hours generator life on a honda eu7000is happens too fast on super long outages over time...
lol!


----------



## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Everytime someone posts about a current outage I can’t help but get jealous. lol.


No outage in over two months and I'm feeling a little depressed. It's coming to a point that the highlight of my home routine is when I do the monthly generator exercise.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we just pull the rope till the valves are closed. (compression stroke)
and run them every 6 months.
but that is on NG.
and they are in a climate controlled shack.
low moisture.


----------



## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

iowagold said:


> we just pull the rope till the valves are closed. (compression stroke)
> and run them every 6 months.
> but that is on NG.
> and they are in a climate controlled shack.
> low moisture.


Hmm.. I kinda like that idea. I can probably push it further apart to once every two months or even every quarter. 

I am running it now solely on LP. The petrol tank, lines, and carb are dry. 

We'll see how it goes.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

if the valves are closed no need to run the gen if it is high and dry!
yup most auto backup gens are exorcised to death in the life time!
but if it is a single cyl gen with a pull rope you can hit the compression stroke for the valves shut
and be just fine as the valve springs are relaxed and the valves to the cyl are closed for no moisture.

one step further is to run a block heater to warm up the block.
they make those stick on magnetics for the steel mounting plates
or the stick on adhesive heaters.
both can be under 200 watts...
some of the stick on units are at 40-100 watt.
nice for if you are inside a gen shed with great insulation to help keep the gen a bit warmer that outdoors.
it take a gx390 an hour at cold temps to cool down..
so if it is warm to start with, then the power goes out you have a bit of time to get the gen started before you loose the preheat.
same on the LP tank heater, it takes a long time to cool down a preheated LP tank.
so a tank blanket works well too.


----------



## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Will definitely follow your advice and do the compression thing. 

But no heaters necessary... we get mid-70s to low-90s pretty much all year round.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Storing any piece of power equipment at TDC is always a solid practice. I kinda like my monthly generator tests.


----------



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

Power was out for approximately 32 hours. Generator was running continuously except for refueling. I am getting an average of 11 hours on 8.3 gallons of gasoline. Engine did not burn a drop of oil. Oil still looks "new" with a small trace of color in the oil. At 10 hours I changed the break-in oil.

I am going to change the oil every 50 hours or once a year. I know the manufacturer says every 25, but I believe that is excessive.


----------



## 50ShadesOfDirt (Oct 23, 2021)

I think most every vendors' oil change routine is based on non-synthetic oil use. Why they don't mention/require syn oil is baffling ... perhaps due to warranty & such?

With syn (depending on brand), you should easily be able to go to 50 hour changes, possibly even 100. I'm experimenting with upwards of 100 hour oil changes, and varying the brand of syn oil.


----------



## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> I'm experimenting with upwards of 100 hour oil changes, and varying the brand of syn oil.


Keep us posted on that as it will be interesting for many. I am using Castrol Edge 5W-30 (it will have 03084C on the back just above barcode) after my conversion to NG. I was using 10W-30 when running on gasoline. I switched to 5W because my gen is pull start and I'm not a spring chicken anymore.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Gees a 25 hour oil change interval. 50 is completely reasonable. 100 or more is feasible with proper level checks and good oil. I just bought a case of Amsoil 10w-30 small engine oil. I do 50 hour oil changes on most things, some earlier some later. I tend to spoil my machines though.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Curious_George said:


> Power was out for approximately 32 hours. Generator was running continuously except for refueling. I am getting an average of 11 hours on 8.3 gallons of gasoline. Engine did not burn a drop of oil. Oil still looks "new" with a small trace of color in the oil. At 10 hours I changed the break-in oil.
> 
> I am going to change the oil every 50 hours or once a year. I know the manufacturer says every 25, but I believe that is excessive.


if you run the oil magnets and synthetic oil they can run a bit longer on the time on non filtered systems.
100 hours in non dusty areas works well...

and on the filtered systems 200 hours to 250 if you run the oil magnets and larger filter material or remote filters even longer
the tip is to use the gauge on the by pass for the pressure to indicate that the filter is full of junk material.
Donaldson makes a real good cool setup! gauge, dual filters, and sensor for remote light or wifi alarm.
we use the remote filter plates and use the super large filters...
then they can go a long time before oil filter change is needed.
just test for acid etc.


----------



## Curious_George (Nov 2, 2012)

My wife and I also own & operate a campground adjacent to our home and the lawn equipment (zero-turn mowers, John Deere tractor, etc) all use various brands of 15W-40. The 15W-40 has worked out well for this equipment. 

I just switched the generator to 15W-40 as well and will use that for normal service. I used 10W-30 for break-in and the second oil change. This was the 3rd oil change.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Curious_George said:


> My wife and I also own & operate a campground adjacent to our home and the lawn equipment (zero-turn mowers, John Deere tractor, etc) all use various brands of 15W-40. The 15W-40 has worked out well for this equipment.
> 
> I just switched the generator to 15W-40 as well and will use that for normal service. I used 10W-30 for break-in and the second oil change. This was the 3rd oil change.


Diesel oil?


----------



## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

Curious_George said:


> My wife and I live in north central NC (slightly west) in the Piedmont Triad area close to the Virginia state line. We live in a rural area, but only 10 minutes from a Walmart, so it's not too rural, but enough to be out of the big cities and enjoy the countryside. I recently purchased this generator for portable standby service for the house. I have a propane range, hot water heater and heat pump w/ gas furnace assist so this helps ease the power requirements.
> 
> I installed a Reliance PB50 power inlet box outside and that is running to a Generac 60 amp manual transfer switch (#6333) in the basement. I swapped out on of the 60 amp transfer switch breakers for a 100 amp (Note: the 60 amp and 100 amp Generac transfer switches are identical except for the breakers they install in them). The transfer switch is then connected to a 100 amp sub-panel that I installed. The reason I swapped out a 60 amp breaker for a 100 amp breaker is so that I could run all the circuits in the sub-panel while connected to the utility side of the transfer switch.
> 
> ...


I have this same generator running into a 50amp inlet/breaker and an interlock. What exactly are the benefits of unbonding the neutral?


----------



## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> What exactly are the benefits of unbonding the neutral?


Neutral-ground bond should only be at one location. Since gen is connected to a panel, then bonding is done there. It is bonded there even without a gen.


----------



## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> Neutral-ground bond should only be at one location. Since gen is connected to a panel, then bonding is done there. It is bonded there even without a gen.


So I'm just curious is it going to hurt anything by being done at the panel and at the gen? I'm only reluctant in case down the road I end up using it as a standalone for whatever reason and forget it needs to be grounded


----------



## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

All neutral currents should return back to the source on the neutral wires and not on the ground wires (NEC 250.6 Objectionable Currents). It's a safety issue.


----------

