# Northern Tool



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Brand new old guy here that needs a little help please. Last weekend here in mid-Mich we lost power for 4 days and had to run the house off a 35 year old Powermate 5000 that with care has been excellent. Our house is 1050 sq and and all we run in the usual stuff like well and heat and our little 5000 has done the job many times but after 4 days of noise a man (or women) can be driven to madness!! Not interested in a inverter nor standby home gen but a 9 to 11 thousand watt portable that I can load up and haul to other places. Now comes the part where I need help? Been looking at the Northern Tool brand Gens along with the Powerhorse brand and was wondering if they are any good? Not interested in the Honda brand Gens because of cost and have no clue who makes a good unit that fits my needs with out going broke. Thank You Very Much!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea honda guy here....
but i also like cat too!
and northern tool has honda! and a credit card. lol!
sorry i had to go there.
lol

ok down to biz.
well the class of gen set you are looking at is going to be LOUD.
unless you shell out the real coin..
or build a quiet box / gen shed.

so the big question what is the budget?
and what is the fuel plan? just remember tri fuel is a better option for super long runs.
and a small gen set sips fuel. so maybe a 2 gen back up plan.

then we need a hard number on the power needed as well as the voltages of the two powers.
heavy hitters like large sump pump, sewer pump, well pump, and hvac , and some kitchen stoves are mostly 240 but some are 120 vac.
make a list by priority.
the need vs the want power.
that will help on the gen choice.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Thanks for the reply! plan on using gas only because of gas for other equipment. Was really concerned about Northstar and Powerhorse gen quality?


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

both are good units
north star is real good on the mid sized gen head
and honda motor is the way to go.
just remember the V twin is going to be LOUD
until you build a quiet box and do something fancy with the exhaust.

the Vtwin has the better oil system!!
spin oil filter and you can go a larger oil filter as remote on those.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

A new OHV engine will be quieter then the old flathead powermate. Twin cylinder engine are much louder then single cylinders.
If noise is a big concern an inverter gen will be MUCH quieter.
The powerhorse 7500 inverter is a good buy considering sound, power, fuel consumption, and price.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

We're out in the country so noise is not that much of a problem other then driving one to anger? I've spent countless hours researching portable generators and about the time I think I've found the right one I learn something new about their quality. There are very few diamonds in the rough left to find and you really do get what you pay for so I keep looking at Northern Tool and their line. For 35 yrs we've got the job done with a 5000w Powermate with 6500 surge, now at times a pinch more wattage would have been better but what we had was what we had, make do "Poor Boy"!! Since then Life has gotten better and I can afford to up grade a bit, just plan on living within my means. For those of you who have a gen that has a max 8000 watt surge how has that worked out for you?Thanks







































thanks


----------



## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Just don't get carried away by getting the biggest generator. Bigger also means it'll go through cans of fuel in short order. You've got to strike a balance between what you consider required generator capacity vs desired runtime.

Sure, it won't matter for shorter outages spanning several hours. But if the outage spans for days or weeks, fuel costs can become a constraint. Fuel availability, or lack of, can also be a problem. So it's best to optimize your fuel usage by having a generator with just enough headroom to run what you need.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Sounds like someone has a bit of experience?


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I had a 7000 rated 9000 surge generator for years. I always ran it on natural gas at my first house and propane (500gallon tank )at my current so fuel consumption wasn't a big issue. It was still very loud, I built an enclosure for it that really kept the noise down.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Wish I'd found this forum long before now, A little help can speed the operation up a bunch! Kinda starting to lean towards the Northstar 8000 with 6600w running watts, not the 10000 I thought I wanted. Granted it's not a big jump up but since we made do with the Powermate the Northstar is more then enough for what the job really is.


----------



## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Sorry Digger, but you cannot have my Honda ES6500 twin cylinder water cooled 1800 rpm generator. It is so quiet.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Sounds sweet! I'll settle for the best I can get for $3,000 or so?


----------



## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Digger said:


> Sounds like someone has a bit of experience?


Made the rookie mistake of responding to the wrong thread... Doh!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol
but it still holds true.
yea buy what you can.
for me scale able was the trick.
i stuck with Honda eu2200i gens as i only need 120 vac.
and with my setup i can run up to 4 of them in parallel for summer time.

i have found out that i do not need near as much power as i had done the math for.

winter i can get buy with 1000 watts or less...
so one honda eu2200i set will do me just fine in the winter with power to spare!

and yes more than one gen set or a LARGE gen set can eat you out of house and home on fuel 
and with the BIG storm events fuel is some thing to keep in mind...
tri fuel is the way to go for sure..
options are a good thing for when things get tough!

natural gas is my number one choice now days for primary fuel.
and gasoline as number two if trees are up rooted and no natural gas.
and Liquid propane as choice three as i do not have a large tank.

and an inverter gen rocks for me.
good clean solid power.
i never have to worry about too high of voltage or HZ...
it is all in step.
but i still watch like a hawk the voltage and current i consume...

and i have meters on the main panel for all power.
and indicators for when the power is out as well as when it is back up on grid power.
and a dedicated set of meters just for gen use.
pm if you want details on the build.
easy project if you are handy with tools and wiring.
nice to be able to see what is going on with a flick of the switch!

hard to go wrong with a real honda engine powered gen set.
good resale on honda... they hold value...

just make sure to do something with gen security for when running as well as storage security.
and make sure the insurance is updated to cover them as well.
when the power is out... nothing worse than having to hear some one else's air con or LARGE gen set
when you have to have the windows open or sleep on the porch to keep cool during an HOT summer outage.
quiet run is a good thing for sure.
and keeps good neighbors!
and a small gen set is always nice for a back up for a LARGE gen set... just in case.
been there and done that one!
lol you need power for lights and tools to work on the larger gen..

map out your step by step power restoration..
laminate the instructions steps for connection.
have them handy by the panel or by where the gen set is stored.
nice for when you are out of town
or if you are in a total BIG storm panic....
so you have good instructions to help you keep calm.

and test drills for power out can be a good plan.
what to do and how to connect.
always have mom and the older kids in the loop on how to connect just in case
you are out of town.

sorry for the long post.
but after this last outage some new now clients in my area had BIG gens
and they did not kick in..
and i got a few calls to take a look at ats setups i did not wire up...
some real issues on a couple..
they were an out of town bunch that came through this last summer...
i will not name bash the brand.
it was not cat or honda.
there was supposed to be an service plan... but the number was disconnected!
bad deal for the home owners.

the one system had under torqued screws on the ats and no dope on the aluminum wires...
that could have been a fire.... 
lights flicker when on grid power and when on gen... the feed from the ats to the main panel was the issue.

the other one had cuts in the BIG wire jacket from a hard wire pull and was faulting out during run...
moisture had got in there and made a mess out of it.

at least the gens were still ok on both....
it was a bad install guy (same one)

so the message here is to choose your electrical guy well.
do not go just by low bid,
90% of the time you do get what you pay for!
and a good local electric guy is always handy to have on speed dial just to take a look at your new install
to make sure it is ok...
that extra set of eyes thing.


----------



## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

We just went through a fairly long outage here after Hurricane Ida. The way I got through it was using two inverters. Both are rated for 3.5 kw running (each) connected in parallel. What was nice was being able to shut one of them down at night which saved a lot of fuel. It was easier to custom tailor the power output for what we needed at any particular time. Finding fuel became a real problem because so many people were running generators and didn't think to get enough gas for an outage longer than a day or two. They drained all of the gas stations dry and then set up gas lines that looked like the worst of 1973. Having flexibility with fuel use turned out to be a lot more important than I thought, especially after the third day of no power. So, I'm a big fan of using an array of smaller generators rather than one huge one.


----------



## bayrat (Dec 23, 2021)

Digger said:


> Wish I'd found this forum long before now, A little help can speed the operation up a bunch! Kinda starting to lean towards the Northstar 8000 with 6600w running watts, not the 10000 I thought I wanted. Granted it's not a big jump up but since we made do with the Powermate the Northstar is more then enough for what the job really is.


 I have a older Northstar 8k (2007) which we ran it off of natty gas...which is only rated for 5500 watts vs gasoline. Ran it for 11 days straight during Sandy and powered 2 fridges, furnace, lights etc in a decent size house . I didn't have any problems with it and the 13 hp Honda engine didn't strain at all. I just started a thread here today because all of a sudden there is no gas at the carb..thinking a solenoid or something simple, but aside from that , no issues in 14 years.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Thank You for your input! As I get older and have a little time too research thing I do learn a lot of things I might have missed 20 years ago. I'm leaning towards the Northstar 8000w with El start, can't seem to find any problems on them?


----------



## bayrat (Dec 23, 2021)

Digger said:


> Thank You for your input! As I get older and have a little time too research thing I do learn a lot of things I might have missed 20 years ago. I'm leaning towards the Northstar 8000w with El start, can't seem to find any problems on them?


Ha...getting older will do that. I have the electric start and its great. As part of getting older I upgraded to a Generac 22k and actually just gave the Northstar to my daughter. I set them up with a Reliance inlet box, wired it to the breaker panel and added an interlock. Now all I have to do is solve the fuel mystery. Good luck in your search.


----------



## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

LaSwamp said:


> Finding fuel became a real problem because so many people were running generators and didn't think to get enough gas for an outage longer than a day or two. They drained all of the gas stations dry and then set up gas lines that looked like the worst of 1973


^ Best words in this thread. 

You have to consider fuel availability vs run time. How much fuel do you need for what you are going to expect - and do you have what you need on hand? Or can you GET what you need WHEN you need it? 

As with @LaSwamp - been there, done that. We don't live in hurricane country, per se. However, the remnants of a hurricane, ironically, caused "gravity waves" and a significant wind storm that went through the midwest. This was back maybe 15 years ago. The hose we lived in lost power for close to 2 weeks because of all the down trees and knocked out power lines. We had the exact same problem - trying to find gas stations that could dispense gas, and when we found one - everyone and their brothers were there ahead of us. 

So my point here is to understand not just the fuel consumption requirements, but what its going to realistically take to have or get the fuel - in the environments you may find yourself in without power, or fuel availability. 

The availability reason is why multi-fuel generators are nice. If you can run natural gas and you have a natural gas hook up at your house you don't need to have fuel in tanks - its right there - AS LONG AS the gas line is on. If you can't get gasoline but you can get propane you still have a source of tanked fuel. Or, if you live in the country and have a large propane tank for heat you might already have generator fuel right there - and those tanks are filled by a truck anyway so there shouldn't be much of a hang up with getting a refill if ya need it. Of course, in-season propane delivery/filling is going to be expensive. But you can still get it. At some point - price and availability don't matter. If it isn't there ya can't get it. If you need it and its there you have to have it, no matter what the price is.


----------



## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

As far as generator options - 

I like Northstar generators. I've looked at them for years. I was close to getting their 13kw version once. I ended up finding a deal on a never used 15kw that has the same engine and alternator from another brand and it was about 1/3 the price of the Northstar equivalent. 

That having been said - 

Of the portable generators that you are looking at the Honda engine units are about the only place I would look. If you start with a genuine Honda engine you have the best starting point there is. 

As far as engines go - Hondas would be at the top of my list. However, the NEW (not the old - pre-redesign) Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engines are way up there giving Honda a run for their money, too. These are the bigger V-twin engines. I am not sure if they brought the same redesign down the line to the smaller engines, but I do remember several years ago it was big news in the small engine world with the "new" Vanguard engines. If they brought that same quality down to the smaller engines I would say consider them, but if they are not redesigned I say stay away from them. 

Engines I would stay away from:
Kohler
Tecumseh (I dont think they are still around, but if you consider used units...)
Non-commercial Briggs & Stratton
Knock-off Honda clones
Imports

With any engine I highly recommend you take good care of it. There are a lot of tips we can give you on how to do so, but I won't detail them here so as to keep the post a bit shorter. You can prolong the life of any small engine, but again - if you start with a Honda you're way up on the game. And they are usually pretty easy to get parts for. 

No matter what way you go - get a service manual for the engine. That will give you service details and parts break downs that you don't get in the operators manuals. 

As far as the "noise" goes - all 3600rpm air cooled engines/generators are going to be loud. This is the "screamer" class generator.

There are some tricks to get the noise down of these units. However, a big note here - the exhaust pipe/system is only part of the equation. There is a lot of noise that comes from the engine and alternator. So the only way to dumb the sound level down is to enclose the whole unit. There is more to this, however, because when you enclose the unit then airflow and cooling become a problem. You can't simply enclose and box things in because without proper cooling the engine temp will rise which ultimately will reduce the effectiveness of the oil and that reduction in effectiveness will cause any engine (even a Honda) to meet an early demise - even with "proper" maintenance. So please take all considerations in to mind here and not shoot yourself in the foot. 

Here is a thought for you. If you are doing home back up mostly and you don't need a bunch of outlets on the generator you may look at a bare-bones engine/alternator. The one below is a 5kw. My 15kw is the same set up - bare engine/alternator. Yes, it might not be as convenient to move around as a traditional cage frame unit with wheels, but you could make a wheeled cart for it. These are also much more compact than the units with cage frames, however they are more exposed so they need to be protected a bit more. So they have their trade-offs. 

As far as economics, parts, and watts go - you get a lot of generator for what you pay with these units. 



5,000 Watt Gasoline Generator



I will say - that particular company (CMD) is not very responsive to support, if at all. The reason I point that unit out, though, is it is a Honda engine and Mecc Alte alternator. For a 3600rpm gen you can't get a better engine and alternator. Thats what my 15kw is and I did take that somewhat in to consideration, but for what I paid and the fact the engine was a never broken in Honda I knew the maintenance wasn't an issue, other than it sitting a long time, so I had very high confidence in it. I didn't know what the alternator was until I bought it and got it home and was shocked it was a Mecc Alte.

The single power connector/breaker these types of generators have works fantastic for me. I don't have a reason to have a control panel with a bazillion outlets.

I will echo what someone else said earlier about the size of generator - the bigger the generator the bigger the engine and the more fuel it runs.

I converted my 15kw to natural gas and propane. If we have a power outage and have natural gas I can run it. If we loose natural gas it burns 1.5 gallons of gasoline an hour. I can not justify trying to supply that amount of fuel so, sadly, that means we can't run the 15kw unit. That also means that we can't run the central AC in the house. If we knew we were going to be only out of power for a couple days max and it was 90deg with humidity then I might be compelled to find a way to keep gas to it, but that would be around 70-80 gallons of gasoline and the most I can get in tanks/cans is around 50 gallons. So we would have to go out and get gas if we knew we could get somewhere and get it. 

On the same topic - with the little Honda EU2200i inverter generator - on the same fuel that would go maybe 2 days I could go around 20 days - about 10x the run time. Something to consider... At least with the EU2200i we can keep the essentials running - refrigerator, fans, lights, some electronics.


----------



## Digger (Dec 18, 2021)

Excellent input! Thank You.


----------



## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

I am very pleased with my Powerhorse Generator. I have the largest one. It's the second one I have owned. Great products.


----------



## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

There are good examples of generator sheds that quiet down gens on youtube.
You might be able to drop the noise 10 or 15 decibels.

My marine water cooled Onan is decently quiet. Spins 1800rpm, the slower speeds do make a difference in the noise levels. It also uses a waterlift muffler and has antifreeze coolant and a heat exchanger. I have often thought if you a house near a lake, a marine gen could be a good choice. Lake/pond water would be used as cooling water. They are also cast iron and heavy. Very heavy. I was given a second gen and I had to tear it down at the marine to get it home, this is a MCCK, I even have video of it running, but it is louder as it is not using the waterlift muffler. They come in 120 and 120/240v types, this one is just 120v. I think the 6500w rating is conservative! It is rated 60 amps output, which really means 120 x 60 = 7200 watts. More likely related to engine HP, not the generator itself.
Check out how thick the steel is on the round housing.

Here is an album, this one is mid 1960's and I got it going. But now it just sits here.
It was missing some parts, and I dont have to original heat exchanger.









ONAN MCCK-free September 17, 2015


104 new items added to shared album




photos.app.goo.gl





check out the size of that armature. The electric DC start winding is built into this, there is no separate starter on MCCK, but later ONAN did use a separate starter.
Onan made many models and some very big ones.
Cummins bought out ONAN.


----------



## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)

I know the is an old thread but had some recent posts.
I have a 13KW Northstar generator. Its the v twin Honda engine ( Honda GX 690CC i seem to recall )
They don't sell my exact version anymore (165955 ). Mine is Nat Gas / Propane...no gas tank on it at all...which doesnt really bother me as i wanted Nat Gas Anyway. And to be honest....i bought a Pulsar 12KW for a backup to my backup...and that has Gasoline and Propane ( I converted to nat gas too ). So i have a gas option if needed.

Anyway...But to the noise.
OMG that generator is loud. I thought about making a shed to go over it but its on the side of my house so the noise isn't too bad for me....though my neighbor might find it loud! I offered him to plug in any time im using it...if my power is out...good chance so is his!. Hopefully that makes up for the noise. 
Ive never put a DB meter next to it but you honestly cant have a conversation unless you're 10 feet away.

From a quality perspective 
Cant really beat Honda. I seem to recall that the Alternator is made by MECC Alte....and from everything ive read - they make a good product too.

Great Generator....but really loud.
Cheers
Mac


----------

