# Natural Gas conversion for Westinghouse 9500df



## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

I finally got around to installing my natural gas conversion kit from Century Fuels in my westinghouse 9500df. Could not be happier it couldn't have went smoother! I was expecting to have to modify the frame or the airbox cover to make it all fit but it JUST BARELY made it. I'm posting this for those of you out there with the same or similar generator - it can be done! I had to re do my work a few times after putting it all together and realizing I needed to run a hose in another direction but all in all it went very smooth. Runs smoother on natural gas than gasoline actually even though I know it will have less power on NG. I also recently had a plumber come out and tap into my gas meter which I run a 50 ft gas hose straight to the generator.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Wow that air box just clears the frame. Does it have a Venturi in the block?

What brand of hose and quick disconnects did you use?

Is that 3/4” hose? 50ft is very long for such a large engine on NG.

The ball valve the plumber installed is a small port (regular port). You should have that swapped out for a full port valve. Small port valves are better suited for use at the end not at the beginning of a feed since the bore is smaller then the rest of the pipe it’s connected to.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

wow looks too close on the frame...
isolated rubber on the engine right???
it may hit the frame at times...
It needs 1/4 of an inch air gap min to the frame.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

@ajnuzzi *IF* you are going to rework that plumbing at the house meter, I would suggest that the pipe size not be reduced until the last possible connection before the valve connection. A 90-degree elbow can have the equivalent pressure loss of several feet of pipe, so keeping it oversized will reduce that loss. Preferably even the valve oversized too and then reducing down to hose quick connect size.


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## Jackruf (Nov 4, 2012)

ajnuzzi said:


> I finally got around to installing my natural gas conversion kit from Century Fuels in my westinghouse 9500df. Could not be happier it couldn't have went smoother! I was expecting to have to modify the frame or the airbox cover to make it all fit but it JUST BARELY made it. I'm posting this for those of you out there with the same or similar generator - it can be done! I had to re do my work a few times after putting it all together and realizing I needed to run a hose in another direction but all in all it went very smooth. Runs smoother on natural gas than gasoline actually even though I know it will have less power on NG. I also recently had a plumber come out and tap into my gas meter which I run a 50 ft gas hose straight to the generator.
> View attachment 10946
> View attachment 10947
> View attachment 10948
> ...


The thin profile of the USCarb Snorkel would have made this installation easier. As others have said, a shorter hose will be beneficial with regard to the NG gas supply. That is a hungry machine.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> Wow that air box just clears the frame. Does it have a Venturi in the block?
> 
> What brand of hose and quick disconnects did you use?
> 
> ...


You are 110% right. When my plumber did the install I was unaware of this. We went to lowes and just grabbed a ball valve, as I said I was totally unaware this was even a thing. I actually noticed it because I went to put another valve on the generator end and that's when I noticed how much smaller the diameter is in the valve. I'm seriously contemplating redoing it with a full port valve BUT it is running perfectly right now, in fact I even have to restrict the gas flow a little bit at the load block to smooth out the engine, so I know I'm definitely getting enough fuel. I am concerned if I eventually get a larger generator though. Haven't made up my mind yet if I'm gonna mess with it. I paid a plumber to do the job and while I watched him do it and it seemed like a piece of cake, I'm not convinced I NEED it and am not thrilled to attempt it myself. Definitely not paying to have it redone! Ironic I had the same thing happen with my generator inlet. Hired an electrician a few years ago to install not being educated on it and I got a 30 amp inlet. Fast forward to 2022 and I just paid to have it reinstalled with a 50amp inlet/breaker and heavier wire.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> Wow that air box just clears the frame. Does it have a Venturi in the block?
> 
> What brand of hose and quick disconnects did you use?
> 
> ...


I didn't answer your other questions. Yes there is a venturi adapter between the airbox and the carb, that's why it's so close. I was so happy though that it fit without cutting it. I got the hose and quick connects as a kit from ab3power.com. I agree that 50 ft is a long run for a NG hose. If it wasn't being used on such a temporary basis I definitely would have ran a pipe closer. Only reason I opted against it aside from cost is other than doing maintenance runs once every 90 days or so the generator is realistically only going to be used a handful of times throughout the year. For such a temporary situation I'm ok with this setup. Now if I was running something like a fire pit that was gonna be used regularly then I would agree, the hose is way too long. Here is a pic of the venturi adapter. It was super easy to install, just put some stud extenders on after the carb and install it with a gasket between carb and the airbox. Then a 1/2" hose runs from the regulator to the inlet on the adapter. Piece of cake. I got the entire kit from century fuels.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> wow looks too close on the frame...
> isolated rubber on the engine right???
> it may hit the frame at times...
> It needs 1/4 of an inch air gap min to the frame.


Yes there are rubber supports between the frame and the engine. I have tested it out for about 3 hours and kept an eye on it and so far so good. I will keep an eye out for that though


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

Jackruf said:


> The thin profile of the USCarb Snorkel would have made this installation easier. As others have said, a shorter hose will be beneficial with regard to the NG gas supply. That is a hungry machine.


Surprisingly even with the long hose and the reduced port ball valve I'm still getting plenty of fuel. I actually have to tame the gas back a little at the load block on the regulator to smooth it out. I may re do the install with a full port valve though just in case I do ever get a larger generator. I have however heard from a lot of people in a facebook generator group I'm in that those snorkels do not function as well as the metal venturi adapter like I have. Have heard anecdotes of the snorkel dry rotting and not getting enough fuel.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> @ajnuzzi *IF* you are going to rework that plumbing at the house meter, I would suggest that the pipe size not be reduced until the last possible connection before the valve connection. A 90-degree elbow can have the equivalent pressure loss of several feet of pipe, so keeping it oversized will reduce that loss. Preferably even the valve oversized too and then reducing down to hose quick connect size.


Let me pick your brain on something - So the 90 degree elbow causes a significant loss of pressure...would you think it would be better to just remove that elbow? The only reason I had that put there was so that the hose could go straight down when connecting. I figured it would cause less stress on the pipes because that hose is HEAVY. I figured the weight on it if it were horizontal wouldn't be as good as putting it vertical. Do you think it would be fine supporting that hose in the horizontal position? Remember this is only going to hooked up during a power outage so it's not like its gonna be weighing that pipe down 24/7.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

ajnuzzi said:


> Let me pick your brain on something - So the 90 degree elbow causes a significant loss of pressure...would you think it would be better to just remove that elbow? The only reason I had that put there was so that the hose could go straight down when connecting. I figured it would cause less stress on the pipes because that hose is HEAVY. I figured the weight on it if it were horizontal wouldn't be as good as putting it vertical. Do you think it would be fine supporting that hose in the horizontal position? Remember this is only going to hooked up during a power outage so it's not like its gonna be weighing that pipe down 24/7.


A 90 degree elbows adds 5ft to the gas volume distance calculation. This is a conservative number, some Attribute only 2-3ft per 90 elbow. I’d keep the 90 at the demand regulator to reduce the strain on the hose. That elbow will not make or break your gas volume.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> A 90 degree elbows adds 5ft to the gas volume distance calculation. This is a conservative number, some Attribute only 2-3ft per 90 elbow. I’d keep the 90 at the demand regulator to reduce the strain on the hose. That elbow will not make or break your gas volume.


ok that's not too bad then I'll keep the elbow. I am going to replace the valve though. Something like this be a better choice?



https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-Brass-3-4-in-FNPT-Ball-Valve/1000248315


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

I would keep the elbow as it will reduce the strain on your hose. I would recommend not downsizing the pipe size until after the elbow. It will reduce the effect of the elbow if you do that.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

GenKnot said:


> I would keep the elbow as it will reduce the strain on your hose. I would recommend not downsizing the pipe size until after the elbow. It will reduce the effect of the elbow if you do that.


The inlet of the demand reg is 3/4. He has it 3/4 the whole way. The hose from the load block to carb adapter is 1/2.



ajnuzzi said:


> ok that's not too bad then I'll keep the elbow. I am going to replace the valve though. Something like this be a better choice?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-Brass-3-4-in-FNPT-Ball-Valve/1000248315


Yep, that’ll do. 

I like how your hose uses a flared fitting for the one side. Allows the hose to be easily removed from the demand regulator without needing a union.

The carb adapter has the downside of being large and intrusive but if it does has a Venturi milled into it the fuel mixing is much better then a straight through bore. Uscarbs snorkel places the end of the fuel tube at the Venturi of the carb while also being very slim. It’s a well engineered design.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> The inlet of the demand reg is 3/4. He has it 3/4 the whole way. The hose from the load block to carb adapter is 1/2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure the US Carb snorkel works - I just didn't want to chance it and I knew that larger venturi adapter was gonna be my best bet for letting the most fuel in. I already tried one other install that failed-tried running a hose directly from the regulator to the propane inlet with no load block, just an elbow. While it "worked" it wasn't getting enough fuel so I had to turn the choke on half way. I guess I could have left that but it was bothering me, I wanted to have it run full power with choke wide open. Anyways, my thought process was since I already tried one shortcut that failed I didn't want to incrementally try solutions that may or may not work so I just jumped to the biggest fuel inlet. I actually wish I had tried the snorkel on my duromax because while I was able to squeeze the venturi in without modification on the westinghouse, I wasn't so lucky on the other one. Ended up being able to fit the airbox back on but could not put the cover back on without either cutting half the cover, or cutting the frame. I opted for the airbox cover - It still seals and holds both filter elements in place, it's just not pretty. I just figured this was better than cutting the frame. I could always just buy another airbox cover if I ever wanted to return it to stock. If I get bored and need another project maybe I'll give the snorkel a shot and see how it compares to the adapter I have. Although there's no way that snorkel is gonna outperform the adapter
. Aside from being twice the size it actually has a cool design, the inside cylinder where the fuel is released is like a circle outlet, almost like a slit around the inside diameter - hard to explain but it would seem to more evenly distribute the gas into the carb.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> The inlet of the demand reg is 3/4. He has it 3/4 the whole way. The hose from the load block to carb adapter is 1/2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You seem pretty knowledgeable on this subject, do you think adding the venturi adapter and setup that I did will affect how the generator runs on gasoline? I figured the venturi comes in right after the airbox so it shouldn't really affect how the carb works on gasoline? I just had someone tell me on another forum that supposedly will run rich on gasoline after the conversion?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

It’s possible. Ive only experienced needing to rejet once. I’ve converted a handful of generators with snorkel kits but only my old champion 7000w ran rich. I dropped the jet one size and all was well.

Ive used a similar adapter to what you have on occasion but it ran fine on gasoline. I’d say it’s a case by case basis.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> It’s possible. Ive only experienced needing to rejet once. I’ve converted a handful of generators with snorkel kits but only my old champion 7000w ran rich. I dropped the jet one size and all was well.
> 
> Ive used a similar adapter to what you have on occasion but it ran fine on gasoline. I’d say it’s a case by case basis.


gotcha I'll have to put it through its paces and see if I needs anything or not


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ajnuzzi said:


> You seem pretty knowledgeable on this subject, do you think adding the venturi adapter and setup that I did will affect how the generator runs on gasoline? I figured the venturi comes in right after the airbox so it shouldn't really affect how the carb works on gasoline? I just had someone tell me on another forum that supposedly will run rich on gasoline after the conversion?


if the new venturi is smaller than the oem carb venturi.
then yes it will loose power period on both fuels.
that is at rated power it drops off.
do the math on the volume of flow.
you maybe ok.
a load bank testing would show any issues.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> if the new venturi is smaller than the oem carb venturi.
> then yes it will loose power period on both fuels.
> that is at rated power it drops off.
> do the math on the volume of flow.
> ...


So it is surging now on gasoline - not real bad, but enough that I wouldn't want to run my house with it on gasoline like that. I'm thinking it's because it's running too rich now. Natural gas is running absolutely perfect and propane is running better than gasoline but sounds like it could smooth out a tiny bit. How would I increase the fuel mixture? I know there's a screw to adjust the hz right above the spark plug and I believe that does the idle as well, is that what I'm going to want to play with to fix that?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> So it is surging now on gasoline - not real bad, but enough that I wouldn't want to run my house with it on gasoline like that. I'm thinking it's because it's running too rich now. Natural gas is running absolutely perfect and propane is running better than gasoline but sounds like it could smooth out a tiny bit. How would I increase the fuel mixture? I know there's a screw to adjust the hz right above the spark plug and I believe that does the idle as well, is that what I'm going to want to play with to fix that?


Surging oftentimes is caused by either wrong speed governor settings or fuel starvation. But since it runs perfectly on NG, that leaves us with fuel starvation while on gasoline. Confirm this by giving it some choke and see if it smoothens out.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

OrlyP said:


> Surging oftentimes is caused by either wrong speed governor settings or fuel starvation. But since it runs perfectly on NG, that leaves us with fuel starvation while on gasoline. Confirm this by giving it some choke and see if it smoothens out.


I did try choking it, actually makes it worse. I'm thinking the venturi adapter is restricting the air flow throwing off the air/fuel mixture for gasoline. I can easily adjust the fuel with the natural gas but to the best of my knowledge the carburetor that comes with this particular generator aside from the hz adjustment screw (which surprisingly was over 60hz even though I'm suspecting lack of fuel) doesn't have any way to adjust the gasoline aside from rejetting it. I'm contemplating taking the entire kit out of this generator, I do have another one that runs on natural gas as well - I would like to have one running on propane/gasoline. Ideally running 100% on all three fuels would be nice :-( 
Can anyone say for sure what adding a venturi adapter between the carb and airbox would do to the airflow?


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Now that your air flow into the carb has been reduced by the venturi adapter, you are running rich. Solution is to go to smaller jet and live with a slightly derated gen.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Do you have pictures of the snorkel installed without the airbox? If the venturi is smaller on the snorkel, it will lose some HP. Worse, it might interfere with the choke, preventing it from being fully open.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> which surprisingly was over 60hz even though I'm suspecting lack of fuel


I assume you are meaning "over 60hz" at no load, right? It is not unusual for a mechanically governed generator to run a little over 60 at no load, and then a little under at full load. A mechanical governor simply cannot control the frequency as well as an electronic governor. A 60±1.5 hz is a common swing between no load and full load.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> I assume you are meaning "over 60hz" at no load, right? It is not unusual for a mechanically governed generator to run a little over 60 at no load, and then a little under at full load. A mechanical governor simply cannot control the frequency as well as an electronic governor. A 60±1.5 hz is a common swing between no load and full load.


Yes I understand the hz fluctuates with a load - I meant I was surprised it was over 60hz even when the engine was struggling heavily


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

OrlyP said:


> Do you have pictures of the snorkel installed without the airbox? If the venturi is smaller on the snorkel, it will lose some HP. Worse, it might interfere with the choke, preventing it from being fully open.


Here's a picture I took during the install on my westinghouse 9500df. That is essentially the same as my duromax 1200eh. They're both new and both doing the same thing after the conversion. All the lines are all hooked up now of course. See how this one is about 1 1/2" thick, I am wondering if I get one of the thinner snorkel style adapters if that will allow me to run gasoline still while still being able to run NG. That thick adapter does work great for NG though. I'm contemplating removing the conversion kit from one and keeping one generator stock for gasoline/lp and the other soley for longer outages to run NG


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Looks like you need to downsize your main jet. The adapter Is reducing airflow causeing a rich condition.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

drmerdp said:


> Looks like you need to downsize your main jet. The adapter Is reducing airflow causeing a rich condition.


I was afraid of that - I don't think the carbs on these generators have any adjustment screws. I'm going to try a smaller adapter first, I don't want to rob it of horsepower by reducing the jet just yet, that will be a last resort.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

You always have the option of removing the adapter when you want to run on gasoline.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> Here's a picture I took during the install on my westinghouse 9500df. That is essentially the same as my duromax 1200eh. They're both new and both doing the same thing after the conversion. All the lines are all hooked up now of course. See how this one is about 1 1/2" thick, I am wondering if I get one of the thinner snorkel style adapters if that will allow me to run gasoline still while still being able to run NG. That thick adapter does work great for NG though. I'm contemplating removing the conversion kit from one and keeping one generator stock for gasoline/lp and the other soley for longer outages to run NG
> View attachment 10967


Do you have a picture with the whole airbox off, showing the air intake side of the snorkel? Again, it’s not snagging the choke valve, is it?


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

OrlyP said:


> Do you have a picture with the whole airbox off, showing the air intake side of the snorkel?


Yeah, we would like to see that adapter.

Some manufacturers of the kits give you a heads-up about the adapter being a possible problem when running on gasoline.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

GenKnot said:


> Some manufacturers of the kits give you a heads-up about the adapter being a possible problem when running on gasoline.


It's weird that they would just run with that disclaimer. How about designing the snorkel better so the engine runs equally well on either gas or NG.... or am I missing something?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea any thing reducing the ID of the air flow is like an restriction plate on nascar!

i would just remove the LP adaptor plate when on gasoline if it is working well on LP.

LP is the planned primary fuel.

if you reduce the main jet for the gasoline it will upset the hp on the gen set.
less fuel is less power ...

or replace the carb setup with the tri fuel built in.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

iowagold said:


> or replace the carb setup with the tri fuel built in.


This.

I have had great success going this route. The gen runs equally well in gas or LP... considering it's just a regular clone carb and demand regulator bolted together.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

OrlyP said:


> This.
> 
> I have had great success going this route. The gen runs equally well in gas or LP... considering it's just a regular clone carb and demand regulator bolted together.


I actually ordered one of these off ebay and tried to install it. It was advertised as being made for my generator too. When I went to install it would not seat properly against the engine, couldn't even give it a test run. I was able to return it but was still a bummer.


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## wade83 (6 mo ago)

ajnuzzi said:


> I finally got around to installing my natural gas conversion kit from Century Fuels in my westinghouse 9500df. Could not be happier it couldn't have went smoother! I was expecting to have to modify the frame or the airbox cover to make it all fit but it JUST BARELY made it. I'm posting this for those of you out there with the same or similar generator - it can be done! I had to re do my work a few times after putting it all together and realizing I needed to run a hose in another direction but all in all it went very smooth. Runs smoother on natural gas than gasoline actually even though I know it will have less power on NG. I also recently had a plumber come out and tap into my gas meter which I run a 50 ft gas hose straight to the generator.
> View attachment 10946
> View attachment 10947
> View attachment 10948
> ...



Hey Im looking to do this same setup. Im curious what pressure your gas supply is... mine is 4oz coming off the meter so I'm hoping that is same you have since i will need same long hose setup. Thanks


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

wade83 said:


> Hey Im looking to do this same setup. Im curious what pressure your gas supply is... mine is 4oz coming off the meter so I'm hoping that is same you have since i will need same long hose setup. Thanks


4oz??? or 4 psi?


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

wade83 said:


> Hey Im looking to do this same setup. Im curious what pressure your gas supply is... mine is 4oz coming off the meter so I'm hoping that is same you have since i will need same long hose setup. Thanks


I don’t remember I know it says 6-8” wc. I’ll check next week when I get home and see if it says how many oz


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

wade83 said:


> Hey Im looking to do this same setup. Im curious what pressure your gas supply is... mine is 4oz coming off the meter so I'm hoping that is same you have since i will need same long hose setup. Thanks


hope this helps:


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## Pullmarkbird (6 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> 4oz??? or 4 psi?


A common operating pressure for natural gas appliances is _around 7 inches of water column (WC) _or re-stating this in equivalent measure, that's 14.9 millibars or 1743 Pascals or Pa, or about 0.25 psi (pounds per square inch) or about 4 _ounces_ of pressure per square inch. So yes, on the users side of the meter 4 ounce.


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## Florida Boy (3 mo ago)

What info can you share as to the actual source of the kit you used? I have a WGen9500DF that I used with propane during Ian's visit last month and am considering this modification. I have seen kits on Amazon, but they don't appear to have the added input adapter.


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