# Do I need to ground a portable generator?



## Robh

Newbie here... I know this has been covered before, but for some reason I keep reading conflicting opinions in various threads.

I bought myself a Honda EU2200i portable generator for basic emergency use - like powering a refrigerator. I noticed it does not come with GFCI outlets, but it does have a ground terminal. The Honda industrial version EB2200i does have GFCI (should I have bought that?).

I have read a little about floating and bonded neutrals and while I will continue to read more, my question is hopefully simple.

Under what circumstances would I need to use the grounding terminal on my EU2200i? I assume there is no harm in NOT using it since every video on YouTube shows it running without being connected to a 6' spike?

Thank you.


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## tabora

A generator not connected to a building's main panel/grounding system is a "*separately derived system*" and should itself be grounded, providing a reference ground for all devices it serves.

Generator Grounding


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## Robh

I'm sorry Tabora...I appreciate the link, but it doesn't help. The second sentence in that link says this:


> Ground rods (grounding electrodes) are only required if the generator is a separately derived system.


So does that mean we're all doing it wrong?


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## tabora

Robh said:


> I'm sorry Tabora...I appreciate the link, but it doesn't help. The second sentence in that link says this:
> 
> So does that mean we're all doing it wrong?


I believe that's exactly what I said... So generally, yes, most people using a portable generator running standalone (a "*separately derived system") *with a 3-prong or 4-prong device plugged into it are doing it wrong, because YOU can become the path to ground if there isn't a ground rod or connection to building ground at the generator. However, a 2-prong double insulated device does not have the "ground-through-you" issue. If the generator frame has a good contact with the ground, that's probably enough. I have a couple of generators on plastic carts, though, that really need at least a short, temporary ground "spike" to get a decent ground.


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## exmar

Tabora's response was correct, it does need a ground. Until you connect it to your house load center which will pick up a ground, provide one. During an outage you'll be using extension cords to power needed loads, e.g. powering a refrigerator. I got along for years by simply "installing" (buried it) a wire from the entrance ground to where I placed the generator during outages, connecting when needed. If that's not convenient, drive a ground and provide a wire where you normally place the genset. Can you power emergency loads without a ground? Yes. Is it legal? No. Are you risking life and property? Yes. If there is an incident involving a loss and your insurance company gets involved, they will be very interested in what creative wiring you did-or didn't do. 

GFCI's are certainly wonderful things and have a very deserved place. Personally in addition to them, I like nice solid copper ground wire routed around to do what it's supposed to do, carry any stray discharges back to ground, that is in addition to "interrupting" the circuit. Generally we drag out the gensets during storms when lightning strikes, surges, etc. are wandering around causing mischief.


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## RedOctobyr

I'm guilty of using a generator in a random, disconnected location (in a field at a park) with no added ground. I guess I could bring something (like a little spike) that could be banged into the ground, and attached to the generator's ground terminal.

Good discussion, thanks guys.


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## tabora

RedOctobyr said:


> ...I guess I could bring something (like a little spike) that could be banged into the ground, and attached to the generator's ground terminal...


 I use a steel tent stake that has a solid hook to attach the ground wire. It makes a reasonable ground and fits in the battery box that's bolted to my generator cart. I have a 3' 4-gauge wire with a mechanical connector on each end.


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## exmar

Trying to simplify things in my old age so got rid of two cycle chain saws and hedge trimmers. Small genset in garden cart behind one of the GT's, extension cord (double insulated of course) and appropriate electric tool(s). Two cycle engines that are only started a couple times a year don't care what octane, synthethic oil mix, stabil, etc. still a PITA! Always forget a ground stake though.


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## pepperpikker

So, I should be grounding my little inverter style generator when I am running my camper off it? How would I do that? I don't recall any kind of ground connection on it and it is basically encased in a plastic shell.


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## Robh

I've read some more. No, you don't have to ground it, provided you're just plugging in a directly connected appliance or something.


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## tabora

Robh said:


> I've read some more. No, you don't have to ground it, provided you're just plugging in a directly connected appliance or something.


 Good luck... You can do many dangerous things many times without an issue. It's only the last time that's a problem.

You don't tug on superman's cape 
You don't spit into the wind 
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger 
And you don't mess around with ungrounded circuits... (Unless double insulated.)

A metal framed generator sitting on the ground IS grounded to some extent. A small generator with rubber feet or other isolation from the ground is a different story.

I have an old (1950s) metal-cased Thor power drill. It has a grounded 3-prong cord. When running it off an ungrounded generator, standing on wet grass, you can get a jolt from it. With a ground stake, that has not been an issue.

There's another thread on the forum where a person using an ungrounded EU2000 generator to power a utility light with a metal shroud was getting sparks when touching it to a metal boat hull. Same situation. https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...case-trouble-light-off-honda-eu2000-arcs.html


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## KRE

tabora said:


> Good luck... You can do many dangerous things many times without an issue. It's only the last time that's a problem.
> 
> You don't tug on superman's cape
> You don't spit into the wind
> You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
> And you don't mess around with ungrounded circuits... (Unless double insulated.)
> 
> A metal framed generator sitting on the ground IS grounded to some extent. A small generator with rubber feet or other isolation from the ground is a different story.
> 
> I have an old (1950s) metal-cased Thor power drill. It has a grounded 3-prong cord. When running it off an ungrounded generator, standing on wet grass, you can get a jolt from it. With a ground stake, that has not been an issue.
> 
> There's another thread on the forum where a person using an ungrounded EU2000 generator to power a utility light with a metal shroud was getting sparks when touching it to a metal boat hull. Same situation. https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...case-trouble-light-off-honda-eu2000-arcs.html


 I think you need to use a Megger an do some further testing if you believe just setting on the ground constitutes it being grounded in way. While you at it Ohm an properly Meg between the generators neutral an ground an think about what you see.


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## Tony West

Neutral Connections
CEC-10 [rev-8]
Page 2 of 8

Electrician here from Alberta. Below is from the Standata information bulletin March 2014 from Alberta. This lays it out clearly. If you have a neutral bonded to frame then you need a grounding electrode at gen and also to switch the neutral at transfer switch. If you have a floating neutral gen then you only switch the hot and the neutral and ground are maintained from the electrical panel/main service. 

From the Alberta Standata:
Portable generators are being used more and more by homeowners as back-up or stand-by power and it is important that the electrical system is properly grounded. Generators are available with the neutral bonded to the frame or without (floating neutral). The following is recommended:

Neutral Bonded to Frame
If the generator has a neutral bonded to the frame, the neutral should also be grounded to a grounding electrode and the transfer switch should have an extra pole to switch the neutral. Switching the neutral will ensure that at any given time the neutral is only grounded at one point (either the main switch or the generator).

Floating Neutral
If the generator has a floating neutral, it should not be grounded to a grounding electrode nor should it be switched in the transfer switch. The generator frame is bonded to ground as a result of the “equipment bonding” requirements of the Code (Rules 10-400 to 10-414) and the neutral connection to the electrode is maintained at the main service via a solid neutral connection in the transfer switch.


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## Tony West

Alberta Standata link:
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/788...9d0-bb16bb2f1937/download/454-cec-10-rev8.pdf

Here is link showing the difference in wiring of floating neutral (not separately derived) vs neutral bonded to frame (separately derived system):








How to Ground a Portable Generator Safely (with Video)


Grounding a generator is crucial in terms of safety. Check this guide to learn when and how to ground a portable generator to avoid harm due to electrical fault.




powersupplyzone.com


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## AP514

Here is a good video on it.....


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