# Champion 100520



## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

I recently had a 6 circuit reliance protran 2 transfer switch installed indoors with the 30 Amp hookup on the side of the house. Based on what I am reading the transfer switch does not switch the neutral. Everything I am reading says I need to have a floating neutral in order to work correctly, however the champion 100520 inverter gen set I purchased has a bonded neutral. 2 questions I have:

1) maybe since it's a newer model genset, I can't find any info/videos on how to convert to a floating neutral, has anybody ever done it on this particular model genset?

2) I tried to hook it up as is to do a power outage simulation and test everything and my generator goes into overload. Would having the wrong type of neutral (bonded vs. Floating) cause this? I had a second electrical company out and they verified the wiring was done correctly from outside to panel. 

Thanks for any help/input you can share


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Disconnecting the Neutral Bond to Ground (100519)


Please read instructions carefully and completely before performing service. SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. To reduce the risk of injury, the user must read and understand the Warning and Safety sections found…




help.championpowerequipment.com


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Thank you for the response, yes I have watched that video. They are almost identical inverters, but when I remove the front plate on my 100520 I see nowhere on the plate where there a connection between a yellow-green and a white neutral together to separate. So there is where my confusion sets in. There are white wires on the panel, but I am not sure which to disconnect


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Can you post a clear picture of the control box interior?

Have you confirmed that there's continuity between neutral and ground?


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## Macko (Jul 12, 2021)

http://help.championpowerequipment...-your-open-frame-inverter-to-floating-neutral

Corrected the url as I initially put the wrong model.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Macko said:


> Disconnecting the Neutral Bond to Frame


Different model. Not even the same type. 

OP has an inverter, that's for a non-inverter.


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Thanks a bunch. I found the connection. Just had to go back out and really start tracking wires thoroughly. It's on the bottom of the plate and there's not much slack on any wire. Had to lay down to see it. Too much clutter on the work bench


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Yes there was continuity between neutral and ground bolt before removal. No continuity now. I'm pretty confident that should complete the change. Please correct me if I'm wrong


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Scottyp822 said:


> Yes there was continuity between neutral and ground bolt before removal. No continuity now. I'm pretty confident that should complete the change. Please correct me if I'm wrong


Yup, if you followed the instructions to the letter and now you no longer get continuity between neutral and ground, I believe you have achieved your goal. Good work!


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## Macko (Jul 12, 2021)

OrlyP said:


> Different model. Not even the same type.
> 
> OP has an inverter, that's for a non-inverter.


Sorry copied the wrong one. 

 http://help.championpowerequipment...-your-open-frame-inverter-to-floating-neutral


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Thanks for the assistance. New to the forum, not a super ton of info out there for the 100520, I hope if someone else has the same question, they stumble onto this thread. Much appreciated!


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Scottyp822 said:


> 2) I tried to hook it up as is to do a power outage simulation and test everything and my generator goes into overload. Would having the wrong type of neutral (bonded vs. Floating) cause this? I had a second electrical company out and they verified the wiring was done correctly from outside to panel.


No, the N-G bond would not cause an overload condition (assuming wiring is correct which has been verified by electrician now).

What loads are you trying to run? Could be that you just have too many breakers turned on at the panel.


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

GenKnot said:


> No, the N-G bond would not cause an overload condition (assuming wiring is correct which has been verified by electrician now).
> 
> What loads are you trying to run? Could be that you just have too many breakers turned on at the panel.


Also, I would check the wiring of the cord between the generator and the inlet box.


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

It's a 6 circuit transfer switch. A thru F. 4 of the 6 are general lights and outlets those seem to be fine As soon as I turn on "c" or "f" it goes into overload. C is the fridge and F is the sump pump dedicated and no running. You are correct though it did not solve the overload issue. I just tried to test. I have a 10' cord that came with the transfer switch and a 50' cord I bought separately. Both give the same result


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

I know you said you had the wiring rechecked, but the transfer switch being wired incorrectly will cause an overload on the gen. Verify the red wires from the transfer switch are wired to the circuit breakers in your breaker panel and the black wires are wired to the load (I.e. the wires that were originally connected to the circuit breakers). I’m pretty sure if the black wires are wired to the circuit breakers instead of the red, an overload will occur. You can confirm the correct wiring by referring to the protran manual.


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Also, have you tried plugging the fridge or sump pump directly into the generator using an extension cord?


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

I have not with this champion. But I have with my older 4000 watt predator genset. Didn't have an issue


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

I will consult the instructions again. Question though...if something wired incorrect, and they were all wired the same, why would 4 of the 6 circuits work but 2 dont?


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Scottyp822 said:


> I will consult the instructions again. Question though...if something wired incorrect, and they were all wired the same, why would 4 of the 6 circuits work but 2 dont?


At this point we don’t know if they are wired the same. It takes only a few minutes to check…..


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

OK now it seems I'm pissed at two different electric companies. It appears the installer put the black transfer switch wires to my main panel breakers, and then wire nutted the house black wire to the red. So not only do they not have any red on main panel breakers, a second electrician and electrical inspector missed it. Would there be any reason they did it this way?


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Scottyp822 said:


> OK now it seems I'm pissed at two different electric companies. It appears the installer put the black transfer switch wires to my main panel breakers, and then wire nutted the house black wire to the red. So not only do they not have any red on main panel breakers, a second electrician and electrical inspector missed it. Would there be any reason they did it this way?


So I was right? All you should have to do is swap them around. Be sure the main breaker is off before doing so!

Hopefully the transfer switches 3-way switches weren’t damaged (arced/fused contacts). Are the C & F switches harder to flip between the 3 positions compared to the other switches?


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

I’m guessing both electricians didn’t read the manual and assumed black went to the breakers or maybe they thought it doesn’t matter. I’m quite sure they aren’t reversible and it does matter.


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

You were correct sir. It's just a hard one to swallow 2 sparkies and a inspector missed that. No it doesn't appear either c or f is harder to toggle. I'm about done redoing it per instructions. I should be testing in the next 10 minutes or so


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Also, before swapping the wires, confirm the proper wiring in the manual. Just to make sure proTran didn’t swap the wire colors for your model. I’m guessing this is highly unlikely though…

Please post back when you get it all sorted. We’ll be very interested in the outcome!


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Sorry, we posted at the same time!


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Reliance had me check the wires while I spoke with them via phone a week or so ago, they are in the correct order and color. Well, well.. go figure no more overloads! Seems to be working perfect now, I made sure to cycle sump pump and the gen barely even revved. Moral is don't trust electricians (just kidding) lol


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

Glad you got it resolved!


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Thank you to everyone who took time out to offer assistance


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## McCorby (Apr 26, 2021)

How does the old saying go…….”trust, but verify”
lol


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

I am however a "why" kind of guy and my question still is why did 4 work and 2 didn't? Also the way it was, with the house black to transfer switch red, was that making the transfer switch and outside plug hot all the time? I.e. if a neighbor kid would have lifted that cover and touched a prong, would he have been zapped? I am only asking for when I give the installing contractor a nasty email/phone call


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Scottyp822 said:


> for when I give the installing contractor a nasty email/phone call


I recommend that you take photos of the screwup before you make any changes.


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## Scottyp822 (8 mo ago)

Already done. That was the first thing I thought to do after I pulled off the cover and saw no reds going to house panel breakers.


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## whimsey29 (Jul 9, 2016)

I'm not an electrician but I put the same Reliance manual transfer switch in about 8 years ago and CAREFULLY followed the very good installation instructions included. It has worked great without any issues. My gen is a bonded neutral and I didn't try to unbond it and all works well, no issues at all. My house predates GFI outlets and the older Briggs gen does not have GFI outlets either, it that makes a difference.


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## somedumbguy (Sep 17, 2020)

whimsey29 said:


> I'm not an electrician but I put the same Reliance manual transfer switch in about 8 years ago and CAREFULLY followed the very good installation instructions included. It has worked great without any issues. My gen is a bonded neutral and I didn't try to unbond it and all works well, no issues at all. My house predates GFI outlets and the older Briggs gen does not have GFI outlets either, it that makes a difference.


I'm not an electrician either, but I've been trying to understand this issue (bonded vs floating) for some time. From what I have read, it is entirely possible for a bonded neutral generator to work just fine as you say under normal circumstances without tripping breakers or shocking anyone. However, we know many of the rules around electrical installations are designed to prevent shocks/fires in _non_-normal situations, so we need to hew to the rules just in case. My understanding is that the NEC codes and/or Utility company rules essentially prohibit a generator that is attached to the house panel from being bonded because that means the neutral and ground are bonded at two different places but only one is permitted. I believe the general intent of this rule is to prevent current that should be on the neutral wire from straying over onto a ground wire instead. Ground wires should only have momentary current on them in the event of a fault like a short which will cause a circuit breaker to trip. Can anyone provide examples of really bad things that could happen if the neutral and ground are bonded at two places? (In either normal or non-normal scenarios). I heard that the ground loop that is created by the two bonds can cause GFIs to get confused and turn off. But that doesn't seem like a "really bad thing" like a shock or fire. (It would be really bad if GFIs provide power and appear to work normally but do not prevent shocks).


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

whimsey29 said:


> My gen is a bonded neutral and I didn't try to unbond it and all works well, no issues at all.


When the ground wires are bonded to the neutral at the main service panel, the current flows readily through the neutral from there to the supply transformer. But when the neutral and ground wires are also connected further back at the generator, they both carry current back to the main panel. This means that you effectively have two neutral wires running in parallel. The ground wire should not carry current (except in a fault), and there is the potential to electrify the metal components connected to it that the ground wire is intended to protect from becoming electrically energized. 

As you can see, the code requirement has little to do with GFCI issues...they are just a victim of incorrect wiring.


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## somedumbguy (Sep 17, 2020)

GenKnot said:


> When the ground wires are bonded to the neutral at the main service panel, the current flows readily through the neutral from there to the supply transformer. But when the neutral and ground wires are also connected further back at the generator, they both carry current back to the main panel. This means that you effectively have two neutral wires running in parallel. The ground wire should not carry current (except in a fault), and there is the potential to electrify the metal components connected to it that the ground wire is intended to protect from becoming electrically energized.
> As you can see, the code requirement has little to do with GFCI issues...they are just a victim of incorrect wiring.


could ins=crease the 
Thanks GenKnot. Your explanation reminds me that one of the biggest necessary precautions with generator connections to home wiring is cutting off connection to the utility grid. That prevents your generator from powering the rest of the neighborhood during an outage, possibly damaging your own wiring or generator, or electrocuting someone from the power company that is doing repairs during the outage. I believe home generator installations typically block the two "hot" conductors, but not the neutral or ground. I'm understanding your explanation to mean that because the ground and neutral is STILL connected to the grid, stray voltages caused by faults and improper wiring in your house or generator can STILL find their way onto the grid. Allowing a parallel ground/neutral path to your generator could increase the chances of that happening. Am I understanding that what you wrote correctly?


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

somedumbguy said:


> Am I understanding that what you wrote correctly?


Actually, I don't see that the grid could be back fed by having the double N-G connections, but it is still wrong on so many levels that it shouldn't be done.

You are right about having the gen wired correctly thru the necessary interlocks so as to not create a situation where the grid is back fed. The "hots", as you said, are always disconnected. The neutral may or may not be disconnected...separately derived or not separately derived systems.


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