# Eu7000 tri-fuel kit Gasoline Propane and Natural Gas



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Hey folks. I haven’t been active in a while... first baby, house and home stuff etc... But I’m looking to get back on that horse. 

I recently purchased an eu7000 and have been planning a generator shed 2.0 build. First and foremost a tri-fuel kit has been the make or break point for this purchase. 

I reached out to uscarb in December and received the good news that a kit was in the works and close to completion. I have a uscarb snorkel kit installed on my own champion 41532 7000/9000 Generator and have installed their snorkel kit on 4 of my family members generators. 

The second best option is the genconnex Dual-Fuel propane or natural gas kit which take gasoline off the table by placing the demand regulator in a replacement fuel tank... Not ideal for propane users like myself. My 500 gallon tank supplies gas for heat and hot water, and if my tank is low, I may Need to operate on gasoline. This became a real problem when I recently lost power for 3 days and my tank dropped to 10%.... For propane users that means EMPTY. This was a goof up by my fuel supplier but never the less it can happen again....

So here’s their Eu7000 teaser operating at rated load on natural gas.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> Hey folks. I haven’t been active in a while...


Glad to see you back!
Here are links to a couple of photos of the (relatively) inexpensive generator shed I built. 16" louvered exhaust fan and automatic intake louvers and internal/exhaust air thermal monitoring; would be virtually silent with an EU7000is inside it... I now have a hole at each end for the propane regulator hose to go in through (there's a quick disconnect at the secondary regulator). I put the 20/40lb tanks on the intake side in warm weather, and on the exhaust size in cold weather to keep them warm.


https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...rmate-pm0126000-power-quality-intake-side.jpg









https://www.powerequipmentforum.com...mate-pm0126000-power-quality-exhaust-side.jpg


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

any pix of the inside??


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Here’s my current enclosure I built in 2013. It’s looking a little worse for wear. 

Old school suncast shed, lined with MLV and foil faced foam board. Fans on the intake and exhaust side with a stainless intake vent hood (not pictured.) Hightemp safety cutoff wired in for safety. 

Plumbed from my houses propane and a uscarb snorkel kit. 

The system backfeeds my whole panel through a interlock. It produced 6500watts MAX on Natural Gas but made good voltage up to 8000watts on propane.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool looking box!!
we have deep snow in our area...
so I would have done a bit taller on the base..
at least 36 inches...
darn drifts here!! lol!!
and look in to air pre heater for the inside of the box if your temps are cold..

the breather tubes have been causing issues on ng and lp…
ice in the tube or intake box...
they make the plug in heaters that are stick on if you are metal air box..
and for honda they make breather heater kits.

and there are kits for generac and kohler as well

cool low cost idea on your quiet box!!
make sure you have your serial number and receipt for insurance...
gens like to walk off!

that is why I use block and concreate and steel doors..
way more expense!!
but I have yet to have one broken in to!
lol I make them work for it!!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we ordered a us carb kit today for the honda eu7000is on another job.
I will post when we get that on the gen and tested here in the shop before placing on site!!

so drmerdp what did they tell you on size for the hose and quick connects to feed the demand regulator on natural gas???

after all these are just a gx 390!!

I have here 1/2 id ng hose with 3/8 pipe disconnects that we use on most of our setups...


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Yeah I have a nice anchor and Chain just in case.

Cool, I look forward to your review of the trifuel kit. 

They didn’t give specifics on the feed hose side. But from my experience 390cc at ~12hp with a 10,000Btu per hp rule of thumb is 120,000btu

As long as the line can support 120,000btu then 1/2 hose is plenty for up to 6’ for natural gas and 12’+ on propane. For over 6’ on natural gas 3/4” hose. Honestly For propane 3/8” is sufficient at 6’.

I would definitely use full bore gas valves instead of standard valves. And on natural gas, I always try to home run as close to the meter before any branch tees.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

one inch black pipe line from the meter to the gen manifold with a shut off close to the meter T
and then more shut offs at the manifolds

and yes use real brass ball valves made for natural gas!! 600 psi valves!
jomar for the main 1 inch. zoro had the deal on those.

the heck if it is they neck it down super heavy right after the demand regulator...
we had found the 3/4 id hose was way over kill for each honda eu7000is gens natural gas to each demand regulator..
and the larger hose takes way more natural gas to purge the air out..

only one end of the feed hose male is open the other coupler side has a valve in the coupler..


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Well that’s plenty of supply. Agreed bigger hoses take way longer to purge. I have remote start on my current champion generator and even installed a prime solenoid on the demand regulator that is powered during cranking. Still always needS 6 crank attempts to start. 

I have 5’ of 3/4 black pipe from my inside ball valve then 6’ of 3/4 hose leading to the demand regulator. I originally designed the system for my previous house which had natural gas... now I’m on propane. So the 3/4 hose is oversized. 

Here’s a solution... I plan to remote start my eu7000 and use a normally closed electric ball valve right before the demand regulator to keep The gas line primed. I can simply tap into the key on source from the generator to power the ball valve. Cycle time is 4-5 seconds. 

The demand regulators are technically sealed closed until engine vacuum pulls it open, but I can’t In good conscious trust it to be pressurized and primed for long term standby. 

Standby generators use the same principle but use a solenoid valve.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

iowagold said:


> any pix of the inside??


Features:


PowerMate PM0126000 6000/7500W Generator - panel faces left, exhaust faces bottom of exhaust fan on right.
U.S. Carburetion MSK3101 Tri-fuel regulator with quick connect mounted on back side of generator. The primary regulator & hose can be run out a hole in the intake side for hot weather use, or on the exhaust side for cold weather use where the exhaust air keeps the tank at a moderately warm temp.
The generator legs sit in two rubber cups screwed into the floor joist so the generator can't move.
16" 1,200CFM iLiving ILG8SF16V Exhaust Fan on the right side.
17" 5NKN4 Dayton gravity operated inlet shutter on the left side.
8 Gauge pigtail on upper left side going to Hubbell HBL2710AR L14-30R receptacle.
60' 8 Gauge GenerLink cable stored on hose reel on left. Mounts on side of garage to the left.
Red L14-30P to 4x 20A 120V outlets stored on back wall for non-GenerLink use.
Thermal remote monitor mounted (out of frame) above center on rear wall, and a second one mounted outside on the propane tank.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> Well that’s plenty of supply. Agreed bigger hoses take way longer to purge. I have remote start on my current champion generator and even installed a prime solenoid on the demand regulator that is powered during cranking. Still always needS 6 crank attempts to start.
> 
> I have 5’ of 3/4 black pipe from my inside ball valve then 6’ of 3/4 hose leading to the demand regulator. I originally designed the system for my previous house which had natural gas... now I’m on propane. So the 3/4 hose is oversized.
> 
> ...


what brand and model of electric ball valve are you looking at?
yea I agree on the purge time.
I used time relays for line purge.
the longer the no pressure line from the demand reg to the gen plate or injector the longer the purge or prime time.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> what brand and model of electric ball valve are you looking at?
> yea I agree on the purge time.
> I used time relays for line purge.
> the longer the no pressure line from the demand reg to the gen plate or injector the longer the purge or prime time.


This is the one I’ve been thinking of. 

Motorized Ball Valve- 3/4" Brass Ball Valve with Standard Port, 9-24V AC/DC and 2 Wire Auto Return Setup by U.S. Solid 




It draws only A small bit of current after fully open to remain open and when power is removed it’s a spring return kinda like a Honeywell zone valve for hydronic heat.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> we ordered a us carb kit today for the honda eu7000is on another job.
> I will post when we get that on the gen and tested here in the shop before placing on site!!
> 
> so drmerdp what did they tell you on size for the hose and quick connects to feed the demand regulator on natural gas???
> ...


Curious, Wondering what your impressions are of the uscarb trifuel kit. Especially the functionality of switch between fuels.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> Curious, Wondering what your impressions are of the uscarb trifuel kit. Especially the functionality of switch between fuels.


time will tell on the new ng kit.
it just landed a few hours ago.
the gen will be back here this next week for the mod.
they just switch off the injection pump and then you jack in to natural gas and turn on your natural gas supply.

pretty slick for the bucks!
less than 500.00 for the basic kit.
then you need the long hoses and fittings as well as all the connections at the house.
and easy extra 200-300 in parts or more depending on your location of the gen to the meter.

the setup I will be using it on will be close to the gas and electric meters (15 foot)
I will have pix etc on the honda gen forum.

way cheaper than the ng injection systems that I build!! (over $5k plus the gen)
but this $500 buck kit is not injected for the natural gas.

we will see how the newer eu7000i likes this kit...

update the tri fuel us carb kit rocks!
works perfect on NG!
a big note: make sure to run larger hoses at least 3/4 if it is longer than 4 foot to the NG connection to the demand regulator.
i have short hose runs, so the 1/2 id works ok!
and i have 1 inch id NG black pipe up to the valve and quick coupler.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Did you have any luck with the kit on the EU7000is? I understand that there are issues with the Genconnex kit, especially with Eco mode, but not sure how people are making out with the US Carb kit. It would be nice if my Honda could reliably use both gasoline and natural gas, but there is no way I'm going to modify it unless the solution is bullet proof.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we use the us carb kit.


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## Power User (Feb 28, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> I understand that there are issues with the Genconnex kit, especially with Eco mode, but not sure how people are making out with the US Carb kit.


Yes, like this one.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

So I’m in the next phase of my propane conversion with the EU7000. Currently my primary fuel on EU7000 (A) is gasoline but I want to make the move to propane as primary.

The generator lives and operates in a running enclosure. I built a remote control box for the generator that is located next to my panel in my basement. I want the unit to reliably start first attempt. To accomplish this the fuel source needs to remain primed at the demand regulator and I may need to use an auto primer to feed extra fuel during cranking.

I contacted UScarb and purchased a 1/2 lock out solenoid and their auto primer kit. Also they build me a patch harness that connects between their trifuel kits controller and fuel selection switch. The harness has a 12v wire that I’ll use to trigger a fused relay to open the gas lock out solenoid.

I’ve heard that these solenoids have a reputation for current draw and getting hot. So I bench tested it and it had a current draw of 2.0amps and quickly heated up to 200 degrees after 45 minutes. All standby generators use a similar lock out solenoid so I suppose they also heat up like crazy and do their job but I guess I’m just a bit taken back by how hot a fuel control valve is allowed to get lol.

@iowagold you probably have some experience with this. Does anyone have thoughts on the proper practices of using such a valve?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

what is the resistance on the valve coil?
and i see it is at 12 volts and just less than 2 amps.
see if they have a 24 volt version of the coil as it is 12 volt... as the resistance is higher on the 24 volt.
and lower current when on 12 volt for less heat.
same on the relays. use 24 volt relay coils when you can.
at least on the stuff that maybe on for a week or more.

sounds like that might be a prime sol or valve.
those are hard snapping fast action on off style for a burst of lp through an orifice.
higher current on those...

make sure to use an adjustable timer in partial seconds on the prime on the demand regulator for start
it is less time to prime on lp.
they also make bottle crackers for the lp bottle valves.
a basic servo motor with a clutch to operate the bottle valve.

pm if you need part numbers


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Yes it’s a quick action instant open and close valve. It may work as a priming valve but it’s sized appropriately as a primary supply valve for this application.

The quick close operation is perfect for shutting the gas supply as soon as so as I turn off the main switch on my controller. It just gets pretty darn hot, I’m probably over thinking it. I sent an email to UScarb to get there feed back.

Honestly my first choice for valve was an auto return electric ball valve. It’s “rated” for “fuel” but I can only find in the national plumbing code references to solenoid valves when dealing with gaseous fuel.

An electric ball valve can be manually opened and closed in the event of an electrical issue.









1/2" Brass Electric Ball Valve - 2 Wire Auto Return


This motorized ball valve offers the control of a solenoid valve without the restrictions of flow or constant power requirements. Unlike the quick response of a solenoid valve the slower 4-5 second to open and close eliminates water hammer. The 2-wire XR22 unit is available in a 9 to 24 AC / DC...




www.electricsolenoidvalves.com


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Here is the priming solenoid with needle valve for fine tuning. 

I like the idea of a single burst of priming fuel on a timer. It’s what we do when pressing the prime button on the KN demand regulator.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool on the kit!
i question the dia on the small hose restriction...
on the button manual prime i think it kicks the demand wide open on flow.
that is mostly a 7/16 opening.
then restricted at the carby plate or the load block...

so i would place the prime injection after the load block in your kit.
i will have to get some octal base timers on the tri fuel kit page.
does the us carbs kit have a choke output for the 7000is?
it is done inside the computer for the fi burst when cold temps it over fuels on the injection at first crank.
that is why i used fi on the big clients ng setup for the 7000is...
i could burst the NG injection for prime by the temp and the afr on the lamda system.
cool on the computer injection i used for that system.
and no power loss on ng as the computer did the fuel map.
it did a solid perfect 5500 watts on ng for 100 hours on the testing of the first one.

check your pm


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> cool on the kit!
> i question the dia on the small hose restriction...
> on the button manual prime i think it kicks the demand wide open on flow.
> that is mostly a 7/16 opening.
> ...


Interesting idea to inject the primers fuel after the load block. If excessive cranking is needed to start the gen with the injection point before the load block, I’ll give after the block a shot.

There is no choke output is available. I’ll be tapping into the starter solenoid trigger wire at the GCU to trigger the primer solenoid.

Stand-alone FI for NG is pretty wild. What was the generator used for?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

client with cell towers on pipeline.
BIG bucks system.
they are still working on the solar part.
covid hit and no ultra high output solar panels that they liked for the system.
the solar plant was in woohan.
they are still shut down.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> client with cell towers on pipeline.
> BIG bucks system.
> they are still working on the solar part.
> covid hit and no ultra high output solar panels that they liked for the system.
> ...


I see, is it a backup solution, or for primary power?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

primary right now...
it was intended as designed for a back up to the solar.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> primary right now...
> it was intended as designed for a back up to the solar.


Jees, how many hours on that bad boy.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

BIG numbers!!
real big
they changed the oil socks at 5000 hours.
just as a pm. and have changed the others socks at the 5 k hours.
the oil samples was just as clean as 200 hrs before the sock change.

the first gen is at 19k hours and still on the original 60 gallon batch of royal purple 5/30.
the numbers are perfect.
and still no blow by yet.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Gen A is out of the enclosure and in the garage. Redundancy FTW.

Finally getting underway with my propane upgrades. I put a few hours in tonight, more to come.

Teaser shot.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Wow! One is none and two is one. But to someone who can't afford one EU7k, let alone two, I'll settle for one is some. lol

Are the exhaust ports in the works? Or are they just currently boarded up?


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## Bluwolf (Nov 8, 2020)

And what is that white stuff in the front of the enclosure?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

OrlyP said:


> Wow! One is none and two is one. But to someone who can't afford one EY7k, let alone two, I'll settle for one is some. lol
> 
> Are the exhaust ports in the works? Or are they just currently boarded up?


Yeah it’s a lot, I went a bit crazy.…No exhaust work at this stage. So far the ceramic fiber board aside from a little carbon staining is holding up perfect as a refractory board.



Bluwolf said:


> And what is that white stuff in the front of the enclosure?


Yeah The white stuff is starting to fall. Im only 3 months behind on this project. lol.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Job is 98% percent complete. Happy with the results.

I tapped into the starter solenoid trigger wire coming off the GCU for 12v. It’s the Black / white wire. The control panel was a solid ground point. Simple double nutted bolt is a common ground point for the Primer solenoid, Gas solenoid, and control relay. This kept the battery cavity which is already 10lbs of stuff in a 5lb bag a bit cleaner with less connections directly attached to the battery

The grey wires lead to the USCarb msk7000 piggy back controller. It interfaces with the GCU allowing an On-off-On toggle switch to select Gasoline or Alt fuel.























The fuel solenoid valve is powered through a 4 pin micro relay. More compact then a typical bosch style relay which further helps packaging. USCarb made me a jumper harness to cleanly supply a 12v lead to trigger the relay. Although it’s very nice touch, it is Cumbersome in such a tight space. I may remove the jumper harness and simply Ttap the wire needed to trigger the relay.

All the leads are bullet or spade terminals with the female connectors being insulated. Pairs of wires have connectors opposing (male/female) each other so that the wires dont get mixed up in the case of future repairs to anything. 12v source leads have an insulated connector. Ground source connectors are the opposite.

Originally the add-a-fuse seemed like a slick source for power but I later realized that the feed wires for both fuses are surprisingly small gauge. The add a fuse would only fit in the existing 3amps location and Id rather not take any chances of drawing to much current through that existing circuit. I’ll use a standard fuse holder and hook right to battery power instead. Job for tomorrow.










Exposed wiring is loomed and routed cleanly Though the photo sorta suggests otherwise. To further improve the clutter in the small battery cavity I rearranged a couple things and was able to reduce the length of hose from load block to snorkel by 3-1/2 inches. Shorter the better.

The blue wires are thermocouple leads Ive been using to get a read on my enclosures ventilation proficiency. I’m using an Amazon cheapo 4 probe handhed digital thermometer. In the front is Air inlet temp and inverter temp. I have a lead at the rear of the generator at the exhaust air outlet on the left side (when facing the generator) which is the hottest spot as this air passes over the muffler/catalytic converter. The forth lead I might snake into the generator for block temp or use for air temp at a higher point in the enclosure, I havnt decided.













I got the generator all back together and changed the oil to Amsoils 10w-30 small engine oil. Before now only Honda power equipment 10w-30 oil has been used. FINALLY, I installed the magnetic drain plug I’ve had for almost a year.

The additions will improve safety and enhance propane cold starting considerably. The main fuel solenoid is triggered to open only when key power is on with the fuel selector in the ALT fuel position. The fuel solenoid closes immediately when the generator is turned off by either the main key or my remote controller. The solenoid also when the generator goes to sleep if power has been on for a few minutes but was never started or the generator quit and left unattended for the same few minutes.

Im really looking forward to getting this thing back into the enclosure and taking it for a test run, most likely this coming weekend.


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## Bluwolf (Nov 8, 2020)

Has NASA been in touch for you to do consulting work?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Yeah, I heard the EU7000is on the ISS is on the fritz again..... vacuum issues.

But seriously, good work on those modifications. I can imagine myself doing the same. First thing to do is get an EU7000is..... nahh... never gonna happen.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Awesome job!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Thanks fellas.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Fuse holder installed, time for a beer.

I’m thinking the next time I pull the front assembly apart I’m going to use one of the 2 remaining fuse positions in the factory fuse block. The remote wire connector and terminals are sumitomo, so the fuse block likely is as well. If I can figure out what size terminals are being used it should be a simple add on.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

make sure to use dielectric grease on all of the connections as well as the battery terms
and on the legs of the blade fuses... if they are the aluminum legs on the fuses they tend to corrode over time.

nice on the prime sol mod!

one other mod we did was to use female on all of the LP / NG hose ends and then use a double male dog bone to connect...
that way the the female has that plunger valve inside to hold the vapor charge to cut down on the prime needed when you pull out the system to work on it like oil changes etc.
unless the LP / NG hoses are long enough to reach...

easy mod for later!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Update. Success!

It’s 10 degrees F (-10 degrees C for the Canucks 😉)

The generator is back in the enclosure. The primers adjuster arrived set to 2 turns out I left it there for now. The generator Fired up fist attempt but sounded like it needed a bit more fuel from the primer. It’s now at 3 turns out, I’ll check tomorrow after a nice cold soaking to see if that did the trick.

The load block was last adjusted last October on a 50F degree day. I fattened it up 3/4 turn and it’s purring like a kitten. Although best practice is to adjust the block at rated load to as lean as possible I’ve found that a nice smooth zero load setting plus 1/2 turn fat quickly gets me into a good base window. I’ll fine tune it at a later point.


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