# Another nuetral bonding question...



## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

This quarantine has resulted in me fixing just about everything that has needed fixing for the last 10 years -- and a few things that didn't.  One thing I'm still working on is the remote start for my portable power generator.

Unrelated to the remote start issue, while looking for info I've also come across a lot of questions and confusion surrounding when to use, or not use, neutral bonding or if its even required -- ever.

I've had a Champion 41532 (Costco version) 9000/7000 since mid-2012. I've used it as a stand-alone generator as well as connecting it directly to my electrical panel using a Square D Homeline Interlock. It, and everything connected to it, from home lighting, HVAC, etc to power tools has worked perfectly -- no GFI/GFCI tripping, no "tingles", no issues at all.

I know that before now I've never had the panel off so I haven't added or removed anything and I've never connected anything to the ground connector on the front of the panel.

While everything is working I still don't want to be operating in what could become a dangerous situation. My manual just says to connect the external ground if I'm using something that requires the 3rd prong in order to work correctly.

Is there a state table available that gives the correct configuration for the neutral bonding options?

Thanks in advance,

Howard


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

well first things first!!
good job on using an interlock!!

there are a lot of things that come in play on grounding.
so first things first.
make sure your house electrical is up to the latest specs..
look at nec as well as local electrical code..
and also look at the utility's rules as well.

the BIG thing for me is good ground stakes...
and fat wire from those points to the ground points in the system.
the bare min should be solid 4 gauge copper... 
and the larger sizes are lard to come by in solid wire..
so 1/0 in stranded copper is good for most 200 amp service..
and you will be doing an grounding array with multi ground stakes not too far from the meter or entrance.
I like 3 stakes or up to 6 depending on the soil...
more stakes are required in dry areas.. or places where the soil is less conductive.

check and isolate water lines, gas lines, sewer lines from those grid or utilities connections..
there are special fittings that air gap the lines... or isolate them with special plastics made for the connection.
also d the same with telco (phone) internet, and cable tv if you have those as hard wired.
if you are upgraded to fiber optic that is already done!!

another thing that is over looked on most systems is lightning and surge protection.
if you do not have a whole house surge protection device see the page below for ideas and links
click here for generator connection and breaker panel and surge page

proper grounding as well as surge protection all is tied in to this as well.
knock on what ever.. the surge unit is working for me!!
we had a few close hits in my area with the last bunch of storms.
I was ok, the neighbors had damage from a couple of the strikes..
microwave, tv's, and a few other items plugged in at the time..

if you are in to ham radio you under stand well the grounding importance..

make sure you have at least 4 wire connection from your generator to the generator inlet on the house.
and those wire sizes need to be at least one up from what the charts say.

I prefer 6/4 wiring... at least for most portable generators.. 
yea it is over kill... but if you have higher heat days, it will stay cooler!
think az temps this last week!! wow!! 100 deg plus!!
and we are set for 90's on the 2nd of june 2020!!

so if the generator is properly grounded with fat wire from the properly grounded breaker panel you are covered on an inter lock system.

but if you are running a camper or job site setup you want ground stakes at the point of use like where the power enters..
eliminate hot skin on the camper, and on the job site.

when in doubt use a volt meter!! if you have more that 1/2 a volt difference check it out carefully.

stay safe out there!!


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Thanks for such a thorough reply -- very informative and helpful.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I used to own that same generator, its floating neutral out of the box. Connected to your panel your household grounding system is all thats necessary.


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Thanks. I'll go back to fixing the non-working remote start feature now.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Had that issue too. New batteries and reprogramming the unit fixed it for me.









Reprogram Wireless Remote (Rocker Switch Generators)


This bulletin covers the following Champion Power Equipment models: All Champion Power Equipment rocker switch models. Read instructions carefully and completely before performing service. . SAFETY P…




help.championpowerequipment.com


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Thanks. Yes, that was the first thing I tried but no joy. The remote has a brand new 3.2 vdc CR2016 coin battery. The red light comes on on the generator after pressing the programming button but never gives any indication that it is receiving any kind of signal from the remote. No flash, no flicker, no off, no nada, zip, zilch from either the remote's off or start buttons.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

The remote takes 2 of the small batteries stacked in series. Are you using two?


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Ha ha. You are my new hero. I only replaced one -- the top one. Don't know why I didn't notice the bottom one. I'll put the remote module back in tomorrow and let you know but my money says it will work.

Thanks!

Howard


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Darn... I think the new batteries might have made some kind of difference besides just the voltage level (went from 5.6 > 6.08) but it wasn't the silver bullet I was hoping for. Since I tried something a little different this time I can't say for sure that anything actually changed.

Now, instead of clicking, if I hold the stop button down for some [variable] amount of time it will, as often as not, blink the programming light once. However, no amount of clicking or holding the start button elicits any kind of response whatsoever.

So, I still haven't isolated either component -- remote or receiver module -- though it "appears" that the additional battery might have made some difference in the remote's performance.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

how old is the battery in the generator?
and do you use a battery tender on it?
yea most battery's are junk these days...
i use some sort of battery tender on every thing now...
all kinds of stuff making a drain some how some way!
click here for battery tenders page


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

oh yea woody
so you have a second remote?
try that with fresh battery's!


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Thanks. I replaced the 12 vdc battery last summer and, yes, I have a tender on it. It is 12.7 w/o the tender and 13.7 with.

I wish I had two remotes - but alas, only one. That would have been a big help.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

run the battery to the parts store and have it tested.
just to make sure.
unit demo here;


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Thanks. I actually have a carbon pile load tester -- the battery is good.

It starts and runs perfectly using the electric start.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hummm
so the generator starts via the button on the side of the gen right?


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Yes. Everything on that generator works perfect other than the remote start. I don't know whether it's the remote not speaking loud enough or speaking the wrong code or if the receiver is hard of hearing. When trying to reprogram the remote, the remote's stop button will occasionally cause the programming light to blink once which implies that the remote sent a signal and the receiver received it and interpreted it correctly. However, the remote's start button never causes any kind of response by the programming light. One would assume that as a minimum I was successful and unprogramming it. The remote's little red transmit LED is on steady whenever either of the buttons is pressed.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you have the instructions for programming the remote?
or programming the receiver for a new remote?

yea a glitchy fob switch under the button can cause issues...
or battery contacts in the fob..
any chance of water got in the fob?


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

I have the instructions for programming between the remote and the receiver -- bulletin # 2030003.

The FOB is clean and dry. The micro switches work like they are supposed to and the power to the onboard chip is 6.01 vdc which says there is no issue with the FOB's battery connection.

I just got off the phone with the CPE tech folks and they are gonna mail me replacements for the FOB and the Receiver Module.

Thanks for all your time and help.

Regards...


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

cool!
glad they stepped up with spare parts!!
yea... looks like a rx tx thing...
hard to do this in the field with out all the spectrum gear and tx gear like they have in the engineering lab at the factory!
most of the whole remote start kit stuff costs less than 50 bucks at mfg cost for the whole kit.
replace with new is the best way to go!


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## WoodyFromBama (May 30, 2020)

Just want to give a closing update...

I received the new remote and Receiver module today from CPE. The new remote still wouldn’t work with the old receiver. So neither remote would work with that receiver. 

Now it gets curious...

I installed the new receiver. It worked perfectly with the new remote but my old remote still did not work. 

It’s kinda hard for me to believe that both of my original components had failed but that’s what it looks like. 

Everything is now back to working as perfectly as the day I uncrated it 8 years ago. 

Thanks to the Champion Power Equipment company for great customer service and to the posters who spent their time here helping me.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Glad you resolved the issue. I've only had to contact CPE once, but had a very pleasant experience as well.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

WoodyFromBama said:


> Just want to give a closing update...
> 
> I received the new remote and Receiver module today from CPE. The new remote still wouldn’t work with the old receiver. So neither remote would work with that receiver.
> 
> ...


open the old remote and see if it has dip programming for the signal code..
or it can be a fixed paired thing..
open the the old rx unit and see if it has dip settings as well.

the dips are the old school pairing..
from there it gets in to the new memory style pairing like on the late cars keyless entry and autostart units.

also check the battery contacts on the old remote real close..
those watch style battery's leak after 4-5 years sometimes.

I would replace the battery's in the remotes every 2 years just like on a car remote.
they are a low cost thing to do.


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