# Odds of getting 120/240 service by paralleling two inverter gens?



## crabjoe (Apr 20, 2020)

I've never seen it done, so I'm wondering about this Westinghouse iGen 4500. 

From my understanding this and the 4500DF are parallel capable. Westinghouse just never had a kit for it. That seems to have changed.

I can't find any information on it, but reading the description, it makes me hope when you parallel two of these together, you get 120/240.. It's probably a pipe dream, but what do you think the odds are?









Westinghouse 507PC 50-Amp 14-50R Parallel Cable Kit For IGEN4500/DF Inverter Generators


Buy Westinghouse 507PC Direct. Check the Westinghouse 50-Amp (14-50R) Parallel Cable Kit For Westinghouse IGEN4500/DF Inverter Generators ratings before checking out.




www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com





The product is listed as 120/240. I know the receptacle is made for that, but I'm wondering if somehow this genny, when paralleled knows to put the other genny in the opposite phase. If so, I'm going to ditch this Briggs Q6500 on order then order 2 of the iGen 4500s....

My feeling says it's just going to put one gen on one hot leg and the other gen on the other hot leg of this outlet, and it'll be in phase.. But I'm hoping it does a split phase so we can get 240v from it, if we wanted.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

crabjoe said:


> I've never seen it done, so I'm wondering about this Westinghouse iGen 4500.


The iGen 4500 is 120V only. If you want to get paralleled 240V, you need to start with 240V inverter generators like the ones I listed here: https://www.powerequipmentforum.com/threads/large-240v-inverter-generators.22624/#post-68990


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## crabjoe (Apr 20, 2020)

tabora said:


> The iGen 4500 is 120V only. If you want to get paralleled 240V, you need to start with 240V inverter generators like the ones I listed here: Large 240V Inverter Generators


Ok,so I did misunderstand. Using the kit will just allow someone to the hots from both generators into the same receptacle.


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## mikenkarie (11 mo ago)

crabjoe said:


> Ok,so I did misunderstand. Using the kit will just allow someone to the hots from both generators into the same receptacle.


Tabora may just have tunnel vision to really respond to your question. I see the value in having a backup gen in case one fails and 240v pure since wave during an outage or otherwise, these two on a Parallel do generate SEPERATE 110v legs. Actually if you plug the parallel cable into one gen and fire it up you read 2 separate 110v leads and they operate in their own space. I have two igen4500DF (bought them for that same purpose) and have ran these in parallel.. one with gas while the other running on propane, ran just fine, didn't test power any 240v loads though, but I suspect if there was an issue one of the generators would just overload and shut off and the appliance would die and shut off with only 120v. Prob damage sensitive stuff.
I plugged these in together via that parallel cable into the Westinghouse Created Parallel circuit NEMA14-50R 50AMP 4 wire (2 hots) plug that my electrician installed on my House which is a double pull 50 amp breaker on my panel that straddles both rails (dual phase). Now I do think this is could be a bit risky and I don't have the guts to run both gens all of the time are running.. if I switch gens I flip off that double breaker and fireup the other. Technically this is exactly the same as a single Generator creating two 110v or 120v Hots Dual Phase to make 240v.. and it works exactly as that, but likely should not be considered 100% reliable, systems that require Asynchronous-120v leads and would not be happy as that would be nearly impossible for these two generators to reverse synchronize those two leads in 180 degrees consistently with the same idle.. etc.
ALSO There are issues when you have that breaker turned on and then fire up gen 1 and then go to fire up gen 2... you can see the delima in overall supplied current (utility power does not appreciate fluctuation like that across the panel).. even though one gen will provide 2 hot leads.. you prob do not want to power that breaker with only one generator running if there are 240v appliances in the house about to pull a load, so flips those breakers off during this config. Also if one gen runs out of gas and the other doesnt... same issue.. so needless to say I would rarely run them both together other than just to say hey I got 240v running at just under 3% harmonic distortion pure sine wave ... big toot on that horn.. then I would flip off the breaker and shut one of them off then flip the double breaker back on with only one gen expecting to only fire smaller 110v things off either side of the panel.. so that I don't have to stand there and monitor the thing or be worried about it.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Do it right. If you want 240V, get a 240V inverter generator. If you need more power, parallel two 240V inverter generators...like what drmerdp did here:









Got a second EU7000, more work to be done.


Hey, so I pulled the trigger on a second EU7000. Both units fit nicely in the enclosure I built last year. I have 6 gauge cable running from my inlet box. But need to update other parts of the system. I want to feel out some options and get some opinions. 1. Inlet box.… Got to install a 50amp...




www.powerequipmentforum.com


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

Never attempt to fire up both sides of your home 120/240 panel with two separate 120V generators and some cabling magic. If you have any MWBC's in the house, you'll start a fire.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Wen makes two inverters capable of 240 VAC service. And both are under a grand delivered. 

Inverter Generators and Accessories


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

mikenkarie said:


> Tabora may just have tunnel vision


I don't think so... Just have a bit of understanding about how split-phase 240V works.








Paralleled 120V inverters will synchronize to match phase; you won't get the 180 degree separation that makes 240V.


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## Jordie (11 mo ago)

crabjoe said:


> I've never seen it done, so I'm wondering about this Westinghouse iGen 4500.
> 
> From my understanding this and the 4500DF are parallel capable. Westinghouse just never had a kit for it. That seems to have changed.
> 
> ...


Parallel is for current so you wont get more voltage.


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## Columbotrek (11 mo ago)

I recently read about some device described as looking like a dog bone which RVers use to convert 120 VAC shore power to 240. Maybe it does not convert it all all but is a clever and convenient way to get 120 onto both buss bars of the panel. I found that when I was looking for a step up transformer of suitable capacity with a center tapped secondary. Put in 120 VAC into the primary side and get 240 across the secondary with 120 from the center tap to the two respective ends. Center tapping the secondary is how utilities supply single phase 240 to homes in the US. Only in the case of the utility, they are stepping down from say 4800 VAC. Just keep in mind, there is a net watt loss doing so as the conversion is not 100%.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Columbotrek said:


> I recently read about some device described as looking like a dog bone which RVers use to convert 120 VAC shore power to 240. Maybe it does not convert it all all but is a clever and convenient way to get 120 onto both buss bars of the panel. I found that when I was looking for a step up transformer of suitable capacity with a center tapped secondary. Put in 120 VAC into the primary side and get 240 across the secondary with 120 from the center tap to the two respective ends. Center tapping the secondary is how utilities supply single phase 240 to homes in the US. Only in the case of the utility, they are stepping down from say 4800 VAC. Just keep in mind, there is a net watt loss doing so as the conversion is not 100%.


CMIIW, the "dog bones" I believe only converts the physical plug from one type to another, say, between a twist-lock to an RV socket. It doesn't make 240V out of 120V, per se. 

Getting 240V from two hots (line to line) will only happen if they're 180-degrees out of phase. If they're both in-phase, you get a net potential of 0V. You still get 120V between L1 and N as well as L2 and N. But L1 to L2 is 0V.

On using a step-up transformer, beyond the conversion losses, you also have to deal with power capability. For a 4.5kW generator, the transformer needs to be able to handle that amount of power plus a bit more headroom. You'll end up with a transformer as big, if not, bigger than the 4500W inverter genset. Just saying.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Columbotrek said:


> I recently read about some device described as looking like a dog bone which RVers use to convert 120 VAC shore power to 240. Maybe it does not convert it all all but is a clever and convenient way to get 120 onto both buss bars of the panel. I found that when I was looking for a step up transformer of suitable capacity with a center tapped secondary. Put in 120 VAC into the primary side and get 240 across the secondary with 120 from the center tap to the two respective ends. Center tapping the secondary is how utilities supply single phase 240 to homes in the US. Only in the case of the utility, they are stepping down from say 4800 VAC. Just keep in mind, there is a net watt loss doing so as the conversion is not 100%.


so what is your end game on the project?
yea there are several ways to get L1 and L2 feeds out of a campground that only has 120 vac at the outlets...
most of the time you are better off bringing your own power (generator) to those camp grounds...

yea getting solid power to a good rv can be tricky in locations that are nice for camping...
or glamping grin!

you might look in to a real good onboard gen set to power the whole rv.


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## dannycisneros104 (3 mo ago)

So I purchased (2) predator 9,500 watt inverter generators. Am I able to combine both to have up to 60amps available. But be able to use. 120v and 240v at the same time? The connection on the generator says 30a 120v/240v. If I connect both generators there would it still stay at 120v/240v but turn to 60amp capacity?


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## Columbotrek (11 mo ago)

dannycisneros104 said:


> So I purchased (2) predator 9,500 watt inverter generators. Am I able to combine both to have up to 60amps available. But be able to use. 120v and 240v at the same time? The connection on the generator says 30a 120v/240v. If I connect both generators there would it still stay at 120v/240v but turn to 60amp capacity?


My sense of that is you will have two 240V center taped sources frequency synced and in Parallel. Same voltage and double the current. The combiner plug will have 240 between L1 and L2 and 120 between either of those and neutral (the center tap). Folks like to say they are two phases but I think of that arrangement working more like a single phase voltage divider.
You have access to the 120V through L1 or L2 and neutral. Could make a breakout box, which is kind of what a service panel does for a house, to safely access 120V. May even be able to buy something which does that. Note of caution though. It is possible to get into trouble if you have one 120V device on L1- N and another on L2- N if they are wired incorrectly. ie Hot - Neutral reversed. If one should touch both chassis there is 240V between them. Shocking.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

@dannycisneros104 If you have the new 9500, HF does not have a parallel kit available. The older 9500 had 3 parallel connections on the panel (Hot-Hot-Neutral), but the newer models do not have the Neutral.

There is a way to parallel them (if you can't return them), but *there is a safety concern*. Read thru this carefully:








Duromax XP9000iH-pk parallel box question


Perhaps they wised up? And here’s the great part about all of it the photo with the missing neutral is the latest picture




www.powerequipmentforum.com





By paralleling the two gens, you can get 60amps @ 120/240V (both gens need to be in 120/240V mode). Use a NEMA 14-50R and a 50A breaker at the house. Or use a 60A receptacle and 60A breaker. The 50A setup gives about 83% load. To extend the life of the generators it is best to stay in the 50-60% range for continuous loading.


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