# Honda EB3000c no spark



## FOrdtrucksforever

My first post here. I searched for similar posts on this forum. Nothing but this one thread below came up. But no solution.

HERE

I have two of EB3000c inverter generators. Both have the same problem. No spark. One is an earlier model without 12 volt power output.

From what I understand, the one wire to oil sensor can be unplugged. The small wire to coil is just for kill switch. So unplugging both of these eliminates anything in the loop and should spark. That is what all the experts and other not so experts have told me. Just flywheel and coil should have spark. 

If this is the case, nothing else I tried below would make any difference. 

The motor is basically a GX160/200 with adapter plate for different coil and flywheel.

With and without the wires connected I have tried three coils. Two new ones and one used. One new coil is original Honda. Also swapped out the small module that has oil light warning with a new and two used ones.

Both wire looms and three inverter modules have been swapped. One module is brand new.

Both flywheels have been swapped between the two generators. Nothing at all. No spark.

By manually cranking motor over with power drill the windings have a/c output.

I have checked continuity on the wire looms. If I can get spark, then everything else should work just fine.

The ignition coil is oddball compared to other generators I have used. Designed to work on these flywheels. I also changed out the plug boots. O ohms, and 1k ohms. New and used ones from other generators.

If anyone has some possibilities I would be forever in your debt. Getting this generator running would save me a small fortune in fuel costs. 

I am building a small off grid cabin out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by oak trees. Right now I am relying on a really old Honda E1500 belt driven generator. It is not big enough to run most of the larger power tools. So have to use a much bigger generator that likes to drink a lot of gas. My backup-backup is an even slightly larger 50kva 4 cylinder John Deere diesel. It is very hungry all of the time.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.


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## Melson

This is one of those things difficult to diagnose without hands-on. 
However there are a few things that might be a clue. 

First thing I want to look for is commonalities between the two. 

I did notice you mentioned an "adapter" plate. Are both engines identically modified with this adapter?
If so, that might be a common thread to explore.

I'm not going to list every single possibility. In a situation such as this it's best to think logically and focus and eliminate one thing at a time.


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## FOrdtrucksforever

Thanks for the help. That coil bracket is same on both. Just adapts this coil to work on larger diameter inverter style rotor/flywheel. Everything is oem.

HERE

Everything is basically the same between both of these generators. The cyclo converters are different but will interchange if correct harness is used. Older one does not have 12 volt output.

There is a component referred to as an "ignition unit". It has warning lights. From diagram it just has the kill switch running thru it and grounds to low oil sensor. A new one was installed. I have the old ones too.

Both of these came from a repair shop. They gave up on them. I can trace one to original owner. No problems for years until just quit. The older one is high mileage and shows lots of use. There is not much that causes a no spark condition.


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## Melson

The reason I focused on that adapter is because the flywheel magnets have to be precisely and properly aligned with the coil.
Since you think it is spark related then it might be worth starting there. 

Do you have the wiring diagram? You need that, right? If not then forum member Tabora might be able to access it. 

In the meantime I'll reread your comments, see if anything comes to mind.


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## Melson

@fordtrucks... Did you check the ignition switch for proper functionality? The ignition ckt runs through a set of contacts, with a frame ground on the other contact. Verify that this switch isn't stuck grounding out the coil.
by the way, the green wire is the gnd. Simply disconnect this wire to disable the possibility of a constant gnd being applied. 
If everything looks good then scratch this off the list.


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## FOrdtrucksforever

I know it is spark related, because it has no spark. The wire to coil is not grounded when everything is connected. Kill switch is open and not shorted to ground. I should be able to unplug it to eliminate that in the loop. With a one wire oil sensor, I should be able to disconnect it to remove from circuit.

I have disconnected the sensors and switches to eliminate any open or shorts. From other Hondas that only have an ignition coil, you are be able to unplug everything and then should have spark. One small black wire to coil and a single yellow wire to oil sensor.

The is no trigger or pulse module, so it cant be that difficult to narrow down the problem. If I had a working generator, then swap out parts that are suspect. Usually if the small coil wire is disconnected and still no spark, then coil is bad. But from four coils, new oem, new aftermarket and two original, nothing.

I swapped out both flywheels. One was nasty and rusted, other very clean. I even media blasted the old one. Now just as clean. Flywheel/rotor has 18 magnets on the inside and all are very strong. But dont have one from a known working generator for comparison.

There are two slots cut in the rotor/flywheel to utilize magnet(s) for coil to work. This is the only thing different from standard GX engines.

Not absolutely certain, but I should be able to remove everything electrical from this generator, except the coil and flywheel/rotor and engine should still run.

It is a major pain to disassemble this engine to gain access to rotor/flywheel and charging coils. Even if I knew someone that had the same type generator it would be difficult for me to tear a working one down to swap out parts. I would hate for it not to run after that. 

I have read others with the same problem, but never a solution. Even the online paid for experts didnt figure what the problem from everything I could find so far.

Thanks for your input. Eventually the problem will show itself. The only other thing I can think of is if it needs a small trigger voltage from charging coils to fire coil. But that is just an uneducated guess. And doesnt make sense. I am not familar with the inverter type generators operation tho.


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## Melson

This model honda was short lived. The cyclo converter proved less than robust.
Because you have two with same condition I'm wondering if this is heading the way of the great cyclo converter boneyard?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

The newer model has an upgraded harness. There was something about how the kill switch was wired changed. Cut one wire and reroute another. The older one is original Both of these saw serious use for at least a decade.

There has to be someone that is familiar with the workings of them. These seem to be bullet proof up until the time they quit.

The cyclo converter should not have anything to do with engine spark. Unless it somehow triggers the ignition coil. But that would likely be a known problem by now if even remotely common.


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## tabora

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> There has to be someone that is familiar with the workings of them.


That would be Taryl. Probably the ignition module 30585-Z03-C02? Skip forward in this video to about 5:00 and at about 6:15 start paying closer attention... The 12V wiring may have killed it.


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## FOrdtrucksforever

I did watch Taryls video. Replaced that module in hopes it was the problem. But I now have one new and two old modules and still no spark. From what I can tell that module connects oil sensor wire to warning light then ground out when it lights up. 

Thanks for the input.


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## tabora

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> I did watch Taryls video. Replaced that module in hopes it was the problem. But I now have one new and two old modules and still no spark. From what I can tell that module connects oil sensor wire to warning light then ground out when it lights up.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Yes, but did you verify that the 12V wiring and module were intact and not shorting? There's more going on in that ignition module than just the oil sensor. It may also be checking for A/C and/or D/C output. My Onan has a similar module and if it doesn't immediately detect output voltage from the generator head it kills the spark. When you crank the engine over with the drill, does the bottom light on the module come on immediately?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

Thanks that is something I will check out. I have a new cyclo converter, ignition module, and coil. Guess its time to reassemble everything and confirm again.


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## FOrdtrucksforever

It will take me some time to assemble the generator. But for now...

Here is the wiring diagram. The output voltage indicator is wired straight to cyclo converter. You can see the led that lights up when powered. It is part of the control module put separate from oil warning sensor. 

The oil warning led when circuit is made, lights up and shorts coil to ground. The ignition control module is prone to shorting out thus grounding coil. That is what Tayrl talks about.

To test, you unplug the small wire to ignition coil. It is now completely disconnected from cyclo converter, oil warning sensor, kill switch and control module.

At least this is how to diagnose from all of the self proclaimed experts I have talked with face to face.

This is the first forum that people actually seem to know something about this generator. I have more replies in one day than total on all the other attempts from other forums combined over the last year. I do hope to offer some input on posts here that may be helpful to someone.

Its only been 14 months now trying to figure this out. Eventually I will stumble on the problem. Hopefully sooner than later. Planning to get tied to the grid out at my cabin later this year and no longer need to rely on a generator, except during power outages. But could really make use of this generator before that happens. My solar array is not big enough yet to rely too heavily on after sunset.


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## tabora

It certainly appears to be easy to isolate the ignition coil by simply disconnecting C4. That would leave only the integrity of the coil itself, the plug, the connecting wire & the proximity/timing of the coil to the trigger magnet as potential issues. 

1. Have you placed a visual inline spark tester on the spark plug cable? 
2. Have you verified the condition of the trigger magnet(s)? 
3. I assume that with this odd slotted flywheel the coil must be positioned VERY close to get a reliable trigger impulse. On my HR214, the traditional matchbook spacing was WAY too much. I had to position the coil in near-contact with the flywheel.
4. Have you replaced the flywheel key to ensure proper timing?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

Neither woodruff key shows signs of sheering and fit snug in slot. This should have no affect on just the spark plug firing. But obviously keep the engine from starting. When magnet rotates past coil there should be a spark. If set to fire about 26 degrees btdc then engine should attempt to start. Wish it was something that simple.

There are 18 magnets glued inside of the stamped steel rotor housing. 17 are very strong inside. The one oddball magnet located between the two slots cut in housing has most of its magnetism on outside of flywheel. This seems to make sense. But no way to confirm if the one is strong enough to energize ignition coil.

Thanks for your assistance. I really appreciate it. Forces my grey matter to burn calories.


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## tabora

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> The one oddball magnet located between the two slots cut in housing has most of its magnetism on outside of flywheel. This seems to make sense. But no way to confirm if the one is strong enough to energize ignition coil.


That one is the trigger magnet. Its field passes through the slots so that it can trigger the coil. On a "normal" flywheel, that guy is mounted in a recess on the outside of the flywheel.


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## FOrdtrucksforever

Melson said:


> This model honda was short lived. The cyclo converter proved less than robust.
> Because you have two with same condition I'm wondering if this is heading the way of the great cyclo converter boneyard?


How to you figure this? They currently sell for around $1500. Both of the ones I have are over 20 years old. A fairly long prong production run so far.

Northern Equipment


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## tabora

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> How to you figure this? They currently sell for around $1500. Both of the ones I have are over 20 years old. A fairly long prong production run so far.


 Yes, but that's the modern EB3000CK2A version; the original EB3000c was replaced a long time ago. Are yours actually versions later than the EB3000C? Makes a difference for some components. Check your full model number and serial number:

Model Number - Serial Prefix - S/N Range
EB3000 A *-* GE300- 1000001
EB3000C AG/A *-* EZGP-1000001-1001374
EB3000C AG/B *-* EZGP-1001375-1099999
EB3000CK1 AC *-* EZGP-1130001
EB3000CK1 AG *-* EZGP-1100001-1129999
EB3000CK1 AG/A *-* EZGP-1130001
EB3000CK1 AN *-* EZGP-1130001 
EB3000CK2 A *-* EZGP-1500001


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## drmerdp

@FOrdtrucksforever do you own the shop manual for this generator?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

The two I have are 3000C. One early model EZGP AG/A without the 12 volt power output. My other is a newer K1. With exception to the cyclo converters, very little difference in them. Everything is interchangeable between these two if certain components are swapped as assemblies.

There are two different cyclo converters for EZGP models.

To use the early cyclo converter on newer model, wiring harness and stator must be changed together. Both rotors are the same.

The first generation model 3000A is a flat head motor. All of the others 3000C (EZGP)are angled overhead valve type. 

The newest models are emissions compliant.


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## drmerdp

Do you own the shop manual for this generator?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

No, I dont have the manual. Unless I could find one affordable.... With two generators having the same problem, usually there is enough information available to reliably troubleshoot, and verify what is usually a more or less common problem.

I have been surprised no one that specializes in small engines and generators, has any clue what the problem might be. Every person I have talked with all tell me the same thing. But dont know what else it could be.

A certified Honda shop called the hot line and they could not even help. Then a shop said all they could do is swap parts that are known to be problematic until something works. I see no reason paying someone to do that.


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## drmerdp

$50 bucks can save you a lot of money on buying needless parts. Their diagnostic flow charts remove 80% of the guess work. The other tough repairs require component specs and detailed wiring diagrams only available from a shop manual.


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## iowagold

hey ford
looking at the manual right now.
do you have a good fluke ohm meter??
unplug the cyclo converter
check the sub coil resistance should be 0.1 - 0.2 ohm
that is the orange and gray wires going to the cyclo converter from the stator coil pack
report back what you have..

then with the wires unplugged to the cyclo converter 
put you meter probes in the orange and gray sub coil and on ac voltage with a scale of 20 vac
and pull the rope a few times and record the peak voltage..
report back that voltage

also on the icm (ing control module)
how many wires are going to it?
and how many pins on your modules?
and what was the module part number of the one you put on this unit?

on the spark coil
check the resistance primary black wire to ground
check the resistance secondary or spark plug wire to ground
report back those readings.


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## iowagold

drmerdp said:


> $50 bucks can save you a lot of money on buying needless parts. Their diagnostic flow charts remove 80% of the guess work. The other tough repairs require component specs and detailed wiring diagrams only available from a shop manual.


manuals for this gen series:tango_face_grin:
EB3000 engine serial number GE300-1000001 through 9999999
EB4000 frame serial number GE400-1000001 through 9999999
https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/details/6189910E2

EB3000c frame serial number EZGP-1000001 through 1500000
https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/details/61Z0300E5

EB3000c k2 frame serial number EZGP-1500001 through 9999999
https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/details/61Z03500E2


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## FOrdtrucksforever

I am out at my cabin doing drywall. Boring. Currently on solar power, no cell, limited internet. But have some of that info already jotted down from previous attempts to diagnose problem.

Small winding on both stators. 0.2 ohms

Ignition control module) all three have same part # 30585-Z03-C02 One is new. They have 8 pins and plug has 5 wires.

Ignition coil(s)
Primary to ground
Honda new 1 ohm
aftermarket 1 ohm

Secondary to ground
Honda new 7.60k ohms
aftermarket 7.90k ohms

Stator sub coil winding orange and grey wire output is about 3.5 a/c volts cranking with a cordless drill.

Cyclo converters
early model 31326-Z03-000
original late model 31320-Z04-C35. ID marking on module Z04-A 5.0
new 31320-Z04-C35 ID marking on module Z04-A 6.0

Thanks a bunch for your help. Maybe this generator can get put back in use again. It sure could be of some help out there right now.


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## iowagold

try a new coil
and measure it before installing.
primary one ohm is good
the secondary numbers are off. should be higher...
sub coil should be higher on volts...
are you sure the rotor magnets are ok???
do you have a high speed drill???
take the plug out and spin like 3600 rpm
then check the sub coil volts
and the 2 main coils voltage...
if the volts are low..
bad rotor magnet is all I can think...

what do the stator coils look like??
are they clean and no hot spots???
how is the solder?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

I bought both of the ignition coils from different sources brand new. While waiting on the new Honda, a cheap aftermarket one arrived.

The repair shop had also previously replaced each unit with new coils.

Last year I had checked about 12 other coils. Some chinese, Honda, Briggs, and aftermarket. Four of them are from Honda inverters. All check between 6-9k ohms.

I just checked these two new ones again. Last night it was 30 degrees and they were very cold. Now at room temp. Honda is 8.05k ohms. Aftermarket is 8.15k ohms. Not a big difference. Both primary same at 1 ohm. (I left out decimal point on previous post, but think you read it correctly)

An online professional diagnosed the same model generator no spark condition to someone else with that problem. He said the primary should be about 4 ohms, and secondary is 230-290 ohms. That doesnt sound right to me. He did specialize in Onan and Generac. Maybe didnt bother to confirm Honda specs. 

Voltage of sub coil should be low since cranking is around 600 rpm. Higher rpm will reach desired output. You asked for voltage while pulling rope. That yields almost nothing with the DVM. Maybe using an analog meter could get a reading. But still not near output at running rpm. Troubleshooting according to the shop manual, doesnt that usually get checked when engine is running?

What does the stator have to do with the spark plug firing? If I disconnect C4 connector on the wiring diagram, it drops everything else from the ignition circuit. That one sub coil should power up the cyclo converter. But cant happen until engine is running and producing the correct voltage.

Having two complete generators makes easy to compare visuals. Normally I can look and smell if something is burnt. No discoloration, or signs of hot spots on either. Just one is a lot dirtier than other since it sat out in a barn for a few years after quitting.

Both flywheel/rotor(s) are equally strong comparing magnets. 17 of them are strong inside and the 18th is strong on the outside of rotor. A screwdriver will get yanked equally hard at 1/2" away from any of the magnets. When turning the rotor by hand(not pulling rope) you can feel as each magnet passing over the coils with very strong resistance. 

If I understand everything, with only flywheel/rotor and ignition coil the engine should have spark. Is that correct? Nothing else even needs to be installed to just get plug to fire. Baby steps.

Again thanks for the time and trouble you are putting forth to help with this generator. I really appreciate it when someone goes the extra mile.


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## iowagold

what meter are you using??
make and model?

nope
the sub voltage is too low. something is up on the sub.
you said the ohms was right in spec..
as long as the sub is not shorted to the frame or other wires in that coil pack.

so that leaves the rotor to be in question.

the high speed turn was to check all the windings at proper speed.

in the spark 
these are not a standard small engine setup.
the sub coil affects spark. as well as the cyclo.

c4 is not just an engine kill point like on other setups.
it is also spark enable.
and has signal on it from the spark module that comes from the cyclo
so the cyclo needs voltage from the sub coil
to make the required signal.

this is all tied together on these units...
sad but true!

wrong parts and poof you let the genie out of the part (burns up the other parts may smoke... grin) have to start all over...
so watch the part numbers. and the parts venders..

what is your city and state ford?


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## FOrdtrucksforever

So you say that there is voltage feed back thu to the ignition coil? If that is the case I should be able to add-a-volt to confirm if that winding is the problem. The small winding should be easy to rewind on stator if it turns out to be defective. Still not going there yet.

What you say confirms the only assumption I could come up with as to the problem might be. I thought it was really reaching for straws tho. But not seeing how it works so much yet.

What is the sub coil voltage supposed to be? Also what rpm is this achieved?

My meter is a Fluke 77.


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## iowagold

at this point I would say you are best to pay the 40 bucks for the service manuals.

that way you have all the data you need.
they also cover theory of this unit.

I posted the links for the honda manuals in post 25.


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## drmerdp

iowagold said:


> at this point I would say you are best to pay the 40 bucks for the service manuals.
> 
> that way you have all the data you need.
> they also cover theory of this unit.
> 
> I posted the links for the honda manuals in post 25.


Indeed. The technical data explaining the operation of the unit is very helpful. Let’s you know the sequence of events for operation and component interaction. You are clearly capable, just need all the facts. That’s when the manual is necessary.


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## Melson

iowagold said:


> _at this point I would say you are best to pay the 40 bucks for the service manuals.
> _


Hmm not so sure. If you're tech savvy and have the proper test equipment then, I guess you go for it. 
Years ago I had a quick look at the tech drawings for the early version cycloconverter. Lots and lots of pwm scr's and the digital controls to fire them - not something you're gonna fix by staring at it. I remember thinking, "looks above my pay grade".


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## iowagold

Melson said:


> Hmm not so sure. If you're tech savvy and have the proper test equipment then, I guess you go for it.
> Years ago I had a quick look at the tech drawings for the early version cycloconverter. Lots and lots of pwm scr's and the digital controls to fire them - not something you're gonna fix by staring at it. I remember thinking, "looks above my pay grade".


the manuals will help educate the user/ repair guy in deciding on what parts maybe bad..

the cyclo converter is not your common gen..
but they are just modules as parts..

all of the modules these days are potted in epoxy...
a total pain to deal with for sure..
so basic non serviceable..

but the service manual will walk a good tech through the parts checks.

yup lots of secret sauce inside the modules...
the cyclo converter is close to the 7000is as it uses (2) 3 phase windings
but that is where it ends.
what they do with the power is different at the very least.

these days you have to have the manuals
at least if you are to fix the real problem Childs.
and have all the real good test gear as well!!
way beyond a test light kinda gear.:tango_face_grin:


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## Melson

iowagold said:


> _the cyclo converter is close to the 7000is as it uses (2) 3 phase windings_
> :


Those are from the 3000is. No need to reinvent the wheel; good ole Honda efficacy.

Your comment on the potting is an excellent point. Whenever I would suspect a potted part -back in my work life- it was replaced; no more hours (days?) spent on it. Heavily potted parts are just short of impossible to work with.


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## iowagold

Melson said:


> Those are from the 3000is. No need to reinvent the wheel; good ole Honda efficacy.
> 
> Your comment on the potting is an excellent point. Whenever I would suspect a potted part -back in my work life- it was replaced; no more hours (days?) spent on it. Heavily potted parts are just short of impossible to work with.


yup on any equipment with potted boards or modules you have to have the manuals
other wise you can waste valuable time and cash throwing parts at a unit!!

99% if the time it is the modules...
dang potting material makes the parts over heat!!
caps are one of the parts they try to save...
darn Kaboom when they let go...
we had 2 units that they had wired wrong to direct to the grid during an outage last 2019..
took out the inverters caps and the windings were hot spotted..

new inverters and windings and they still ran ok!
engines looked like new inside. and for under 100 hours they should to have.

I need to get a manual virt mill so I can shave off the boards for cap replacement..
use the panson computer grade, high temp caps as replacement..

lots of gen inverters getting trashed out there..
from just plain old abuse..

over heating is one of the bad ones from wrong built silent boxes
wrong air flow or not enough..
I saw one box he was so proud of it!!
till I pointed out the air flow was backwards!!
:tango_face_devil:
and they do not like over blown for the intake on the carb!!
and that is an easy fix!! at least on the 1000i and the 2000i honda units!
slot the side cover and a bit of foam for a natural air intake for the carb on the side cover.

then his high cfm fan worked on the silent box.
the fan was on the fresh air side of the silent box..
and in theory yes the fan ran cooler that way...
but it pressurized the air cleaner!!
way too lean on the air fuel mix..
if it had been on a 7000is fuel injected unit it may to have compensated for the "blower"
lol!!!:tango_face_grin:


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## Toddhoff

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> So you say that there is voltage feed back thu to the ignition coil? If that is the case I should be able to add-a-volt to confirm if that winding is the problem. The small winding should be easy to rewind on stator if it turns out to be defective. Still not going there yet.
> 
> What you say confirms the only assumption I could come up with as to the problem might be. I thought it was really reaching for straws tho. But not seeing how it works so much yet.
> 
> What is the sub coil voltage supposed to be? Also what rpm is this achieved?
> 
> My meter is a Fluke 77.


Did you ever get the generator running?


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## Keithmjeffs

Typical thread never care to post a update but spend hours here trying to get info.


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## ToolTech5000

FOrdtrucksforever said:


> No, I dont have the manual. Unless I could find one affordable.... With two generators having the same problem, usually there is enough information available to reliably troubleshoot, and verify what is usually a more or less common problem.
> 
> I have been surprised no one that specializes in small engines and generators, has any clue what the problem might be. Every person I have talked with all tell me the same thing. But dont know what else it could be.
> 
> A certified Honda shop called the hot line and they could not even help. Then a shop said all they could do is swap parts that are known to be problematic until something works. I see no reason paying someone to do that.


Replaced everything and it still has no spark? The air gap for coil is super critical make sure .4mm better if .3mm not more. 
Important: This particular ignition relies on capacitors built into ignition module to create enough spark, if you disconnect the control (not a kill wire) from the module you will have no spark. (Tested on a running unit) The module and cyclo-converter must be grounded to the motor with the they are part of the circuit. The Honda magic includes capacitors so trying to run the coil "isolated" will lead you to false conclusions. I hope this helps.


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## Beartracks69

Did you ever get your spark problem solved? I have an EB3000C and it will not fire a spark plug but it will fire a test light. I have never had this happen and I can't figure it out. I have read this whole post and have done all that has been sugested. With the coil isolated it fires a test light but not the plug. I have tried three new plugs. Interested in what you might have found. I may just have a EB3000C parts for sale.


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## neilh2492

sounds like there is no high voltage. you must have a high voltage to fire a spark plug. did you replace the coil or the ignition module?


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## Beartracks69

I have a coil ordered. Should be here any day......


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## Pierre Québec Canada

Hi!

I have a Honda 3000ie generator inverter with no ignition on spark plug? I replaced spark plug New ignition coil and adjust it corectly. And still no spark on spark plug?? Is there a method to vérifier may new ignition coil?


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## iowagold

sure the method for testing all coils is in the factory honda service manual


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## OrlyP

Are you sure that "3000ie" is the complete or correct model number? Can't find it anywhere.

Also, the ignition coil part number above is referenced for Ex4000 generators.


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## danmccarthy206

ToolTech5000 said:


> Replaced everything and it still has no spark? The air gap for coil is super critical make sure .4mm better if .3mm not more.
> Important: This particular ignition relies on capacitors built into ignition module to create enough spark, if you disconnect the control (not a kill wire) from the module you will have no spark. (Tested on a running unit) The module and cyclo-converter must be grounded to the motor with the they are part of the circuit. The Honda magic includes capacitors so trying to run the coil "isolated" will lead you to false conclusions. I hope this helps.


HAAA! this is exactly what I suspected... but I haven't had much experience with Honda generators. So, most likely, the "ignition control" module is bad and I just wasted 300 bucks on a flywheel and coil.... Typical Irish luck. Thank you for the heads up. I was just doing some testing with the stator coil removed just to see if it somehow had an impact on the magnetic field for the coil. No luck. So, in that ignition module it must have a few capacitors in it that are charged by the rotation of the flywheel when you pull it. This is why I stay away from generators.... 

I will reassemble this mess and order the ignition control module and see how I make out. Thank you so much for your input!!!


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## danmccarthy206

danmccarthy206 said:


> HAAA! this is exactly what I suspected... but I haven't had much experience with Honda generators. So, most likely, the "ignition control" module is bad and I just wasted 300 bucks on a flywheel and coil.... Typical Irish luck. Thank you for the heads up. I was just doing some testing with the stator coil removed just to see if it somehow had an impact on the magnetic field for the coil. No luck. So, in that ignition module it must have a few capacitors in it that are charged by the rotation of the flywheel when you pull it. This is why I stay away from generators....
> 
> I will reassemble this mess and order the ignition control module and see how I make out. Thank you so much for your input!!!


UPDATE- 12/18/22 - After wasting time replacing all the standard parts (coil, flywheel, etc), ToolTech5000 was correct, the ignition coil for this particular Honda generator requires a small voltage be applied on the low side coil wire to produce enough voltage to jump the spark plug!! The "ignition module" (part number *30585-Z03-C02* ) provides some small voltage to that wire and I assume the voltage is amplified by the secondary winding to creates enough voltage to jump the spark when the magnet on the flywheel passes. So for this generator, when you pull the cord, you need a few things working to make it spark. 1.) The stator assembly must be working to generate some power to send to the ignition module, 2.) the ignition module must be working properly and send out voltage on the low side coil wire. I didn't happen to measure the low side coil wire after I fixed it (and I should have) to see how much voltage the ignition module applies to that wire. That would be a good thing to know. It's probably 10-13 volts? So, if you run in to this problem and want to troubleshoot it, you could apply a small voltage to the coil wire just to test the coil for spark without ever having to take anything apart! Just apply the power to the black wire from the coil that runs over to the oil safety sensor area (yellow wire) and some other wires near the inverter module/oil sensor area. Unplug the coil wire so it's isolated and put a jumper lead on it and apply some juice. I would use a 12 volt battery (or even just a small 9v would be enough) and a 500 Ohm resistor in series with the battery to limit current to ~25ma ( .025 Amps). MAKE SURE you DO NOT apply a battery/voltage directly to the coil wire or you will burn it out!! You will have to wire the negative battery lead to the engine block and the positive wire (with a resistor in series) to the coil. Give the engine a pull and if it sparks, you know your coil is good and you don't need to replace it. Now you need to see if the ignition module is bad or the stator isn't making any power at all. Check the manual to see how to test the stator coil for continuity. You may be able to check for power output from the ignition module by putting a voltmeter on the same low side coil wire while it's still connected to the ignition module then give it a pull. I don't know if there will be enough voltage to measure or how long that voltage will stay on the wire once you pull it but you need to watch the voltmeter carefully because the voltage will probably only appear for a few seconds then drop back to zero. I would guess it would be around 12 volts or so. If there is no voltage on the wire when you pull it, you probably have a bad ignition module. I'm not sure if the service manual gives you any info on testing the large inverter module itself. I'm not sure the inverter is actually involved in this part of generating some dc power for ignition module to work or not. I don't have the wiring diagram. Good luck.


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## pipe

Some sentence separations & paragraphs to help readability:



Dan said:


> UPDATE- 12/18/22 -
> After wasting time replacing all the standard parts (coil, flywheel, etc), ToolTech5000 was correct, the ignition coil for this particular Honda generator requires a small voltage be applied on the low side coil wire to produce enough voltage to jump the spark plug!!
> 
> The "ignition module" (part number *30585-Z03-C02* ) provides some small voltage to that wire and I assume the voltage is amplified by the secondary winding to creates enough voltage to jump the spark when the magnet on the flywheel passes. So for this generator, when you pull the cord, you need a few things working to make it spark.
> 
> 1.) The stator assembly must be working to generate some power to send to the ignition module,
> 
> 2.) the ignition module must be working properly and send out voltage on the low side coil wire.
> I didn't happen to measure the low side coil wire after I fixed it (and I should have) to see how much voltage the ignition module applies to that wire. That would be a good thing to know. It's probably 10-13 volts?
> 
> So, if you run in to this problem and want to troubleshoot it, you could apply a small voltage to the coil wire just to test the coil for spark without ever having to take anything apart!
> 
> Just apply the power to the black wire from the coil that runs over to the oil safety sensor area (yellow wire) and some other wires near the inverter module/oil sensor area.
> 
> Unplug the coil wire so it's isolated and put a jumper lead on it and apply some juice.
> 
> I would use a 12 volt battery (or even just a small 9v would be enough) and a 500 Ohm resistor in series with the battery to limit current to ~25ma ( .025 Amps).
> 
> MAKE SURE you DO NOT apply a battery/voltage directly to the coil wire or you will burn it out!!
> 
> You will have to wire the negative battery lead to the engine block and the positive wire (with a resistor in series) to the coil.
> Give the engine a pull and if it sparks, you know your coil is good and you don't need to replace it.
> 
> Now you need to see if the ignition module is bad or the stator isn't making any power at all.
> Check the manual to see how to test the stator coil for continuity.
> You may be able to check for power output from the ignition module by putting a voltmeter on the same low side coil wire while it's still connected to the ignition module then give it a pull.
> I don't know if there will be enough voltage to measure or how long that voltage will stay on the wire once you pull it but you need to watch the voltmeter carefully because the voltage will probably only appear for a few seconds then drop back to zero.
> I would guess it would be around 12 volts or so.
> If there is no voltage on the wire when you pull it, you probably have a bad ignition module.
> I'm not sure if the service manual gives you any info on testing the large inverter module itself.
> I'm not sure the inverter is actually involved in this part of generating some dc power for ignition module to work or not.
> I don't have the wiring diagram.


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