# Optimize my manual generator setup?



## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

This is kind of long...

I lost power the other day here in Ohio for just a couple hours. Fortunately it's summer. However when it's snowing outside my manual of arms is quite labor intrusive. I need some help optimizing my setup.

I have a Honda EU2200i (for now) with a propane conversion and keep it in the garage. When my power goes out, I move it from the garage, through the house and sun room, to my backyard. Then I get a propane tank I store behing a shed in my backyard, grab all the various connectors, connect the propane tank, run a cable from the generator to my 30A inlet on the side of the house and fire up the generator. Before that, I turn off the mains on my electrical panel and turn ON the 30A circuit which feeds from my generator. I have an interlock kit on my panel. (I manually decide which circuits to keep on - all that is fine)

On a pleasant day, this is fun. If it was not a nice day, or raining, or snowing, or 2:00am in the morning, it would not be.

I don't think I can eliminate all those steps, but perhaps the "moving around" bit can be optimized. The reason I do all this is because I'm a bit paranoid, and perhaps unnecessarily so, about keeping the generator outside or the propane tanks near my house.

For the pictures referenced below:
1) Supply and return vents for my home HVAC. I have central heating and A/C.
2) 30A inlet I had installed.
3) Where I usually put my generator with the exhaust pointing (downward) to the backyard
4) Where I was thinking of putting a small resin shed to keep the generator AND propane tanks, IF prudent, which is why I'm writing this.



















Questions:

1. So before everyone got past point #2, I'm sure y'all thought the same thing I did. Would it be a good idea to have my generator on that rock bed next to my A/C intake? Is it sufficient to point the exhaust away from those and have it be okay? Mind I'm worried about the windows too. That's why I typically put my generator on location #3 and run a cable to the intlet.

2. If that is not a worry, then I might simply put one of those Suncast resin boxes next to my house and store everything there. But then I'd be worry about storing 20lb propane tanks near my house instead of near my shed about 50' away.

3. Location #4 is where I was thinking of putting a small horizontal shed to store all the pieces parts. It's near my sunroom, but not quite a living area. How far do propane tanks need to be away from the house?

At least this way I can have everything in one spot, but I'm not sure if its a good idea.

How hot do those plastic sheds get? Keeping propane tanks in them would be bad if they heat up.

How hard is it on the generator to remove it from a warmer garage to leave in the elements (both hot and cold) year round?

For the shed that I buy, I am not planning on making any modifications, unless it's just cutting a couple vents to let out heat during storage. I would pull the generator out or open the doors before running it.

Would it be better to build a wooden shed since it doesn't retain heat? I'm not good at that, but could probably find someone to do it. That wouldn't help with the cold winter on the generator, but it would help with the hot summer on the propane tanks.

Any other ideas? I am not looking for a totally automated setup, just reducing the amount of steps.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup rough location at the least...
how about running safe lines under ground?
and you could use a electric remote valve for the tank cracker (second valve to open fuel at the tank side)
yea lp tanks vent in heat...
those sun sheds get warm in the sun!
vents and insulation would help some.
just remember not to trap LP in an enclosed space.
it likes to go BOOM when trapped / enclosed....
think potato gun!
not too much spark will set it off.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

It doesn't look like I can do anything then.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

question what is the furnace and hot water heaters fuel?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I’m all for an enclosure to house the generator and propane tank(s). As far as the location goes, you have a lot of windows in that location. I’d like to see the enclosure in a space that’s away from the house or at least 5 feet from and windows or doors.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

iowagold said:


> question what is the furnace and hot water heaters fuel?


It is natural gas. Yeah, I thought of that too. It's on my list, but this part is first. Also NG would neuter the little EU2200i just a bit too much. But on that point, I don't know how I would run a gas line easily to the front of my sunroom. All the various holes in the wall on locations 1 & 2 come from the basement. The sunroom and living room behind it are on a slab. If I did it, I'd probably just put the NG hookup near all the other ones.

The Honda 2200 doesn't quite meet my needs in the summer, but does okay in the winter. I know how to turn things off so the furnace and fridge take priority. That EU2200i is a champ! But it would be nice to buy something that can handle 120/240v for my A/C. Of course, anything larger or heavier than my little Honda means I really need to figure this part out first, because I don't want to haul a 200lb generator around the side of my house, in my lawn, in the snow...wheels or not. I can carry the Honda through my house from the front garage to the back.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

If you want to run a central air unit, you’ll obviously need a very large generator almost necessitating the use of natural gas. Plan accordingly.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

drmerdp said:


> If you want to run a central air unit, you’ll obviously need a very large generator almost necessitating the use of natural gas. Plan accordingly.


Not really. My brand new A/C is incredibly efficient. Running wattage is 1800W. Startup isn't that terrible. An EU7000iS or similar would suffice. But yeah, it would be heavy to move.

I'm not seeing any great options though, unless I run an exhaust hose out somewhere, but that still doesn't solve the sun baking down on propane tanks to keep it altogether. Natural gas though would solve that.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Robh said:


> Not really. My brand new A/C is incredibly efficient. Running wattage is 1800W. Startup isn't that terrible. An EU7000iS or similar would suffice. But yeah, it would be heavy to move.
> 
> I'm not seeing any great options though, unless I run an exhaust hose out somewhere, but that still doesn't solve the sun baking down on propane tanks to keep it altogether. Natural gas though would solve that.


What’s the stats on your AC unit. Tonnage(btu), LRA, and RLA.

What ever enclosure you implement an appropriately sized exhaust fan will be necessary. The fan can be turned on by a controller that can be triggered by temp and/or humidity. This will resolve high enclosure temps and associated propane risks. (Requires hard wired connection to house electrical) 

Where’s you gas meter?


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

drmerdp said:


> What’s the stats on your AC unit. Tonnage(btu), LRA, and RLA.


This is a little out of my realm, but does this help? I could also ask my installer.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

That’s good, 2.5ton unit is on the small side. Install a soft start unit and a quality generator like an eu7000 will run it with no problem. A bit of load management will help as well.


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## mehmetkl (Sep 6, 2021)

Hello to everyone. It is a guide article. I'll add this to my favorites because it might work for me.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Robh said:


> Not really. My brand new A/C is incredibly efficient. Running wattage is 1800W. Startup isn't that terrible. An EU7000iS or similar would suffice. But yeah, it would be heavy to move.
> 
> I'm not seeing any great options though, unless I run an exhaust hose out somewhere, but that still doesn't solve the sun baking down on propane tanks to keep it altogether. Natural gas though would solve that.


cool on the ng setup!
you could go the way we have with a tri fuel system on the eu7000is!
or tri fuel on the eu2200i gens!
i do not see much loss on the eu2200i gen on ng...
but it is properly setup.....
i think that is where most of the issues start is on the poor plans for connections....

large dia pipes, good pressure are all good plans for a good ng back up gen system...
I went the hutch kits and custom hoses for the eu2200i gens....
i modified the kit by adding a load block on top of the demand regulator to help with the fine tune and it works perfect!!
pm me if you need pix and links for the whole system.

easy to setup if you are in the biz...
skill level about a 3-4 out of 5...
it does take a lot of planning and verifying of flow and pressures to get it perfect...
but it is worth it!


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

My EU2200i conversion is from Hutch Mountain too, but I only bought the propane connectors. They said I can add the NG stuff anytime.

Yes, I'd be interested in knowing what to tell my plumber exactly to install on the outside of my house. Whatever can handle an EU2200i on up to the EU7000iS (or equivalent). thanks!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Robh said:


> My EU2200i conversion is from Hutch Mountain too, but I only bought the propane connectors. They said I can add the NG stuff anytime.
> 
> Yes, I'd be interested in knowing what to tell my plumber exactly to install on the outside of my house. Whatever can handle an EU2200i on up to the EU7000iS (or equivalent). thanks!


i like 1 inch on natural gas to the gen ports.
then size down after the shut off valves.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Robh said:


> My EU2200i conversion is from Hutch Mountain too, but I only bought the propane connectors. They said I can add the NG stuff anytime.
> 
> Yes, I'd be interested in knowing what to tell my plumber exactly to install on the outside of my house. Whatever can handle an EU2200i on up to the EU7000iS (or equivalent). thanks!


Depends on the length of run from the meter. 3/4 will work if the run is under 20 feet. Otherwise I’d recommend 1”. Truth be told might as well do 1” regardless. It’s only a little bit more expensive for a significant increase in supply volume. 

Where is your meter located?


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

It's about halfway down on *this side* of my house. Inside it breaks off to 3/4" at about 20' in to feed my furnace and water heater, then further for the range and gas fireplace. At that mid juncture, it would probably be another 18 feet total (with a single 90° angle) to the outside back of my house in a general area near the 30A inlet.

Honestly, 1 inch seems massive. I wouldn't want to go above 3/4".


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

do the one inch, trust me you need the full flow.
restrictions are a bad thing.
we always run the one inch when over 10 feet
it just works better.
make sure to purge the air out of all of the the NG lines on the first use.
same if you are using LP.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

3/4 pipe right from the meter only comfortably gets you ~30ft before you are borderline short on volume. You need to calculate for 120,000btu (eu7000) on the safe side. Each 90 degree elbow adds a 5ft distance penalty if using an abundance of caution on the sizing.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

OK understood. thanks guys. How much flow does that generator need?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

make sure you use 1/2 id hose and 3/8 disconnects for the eu2200i gen set
and keep the hoses under 6 feet in length.
60k btu is where i use for the number for a single eu2200i honda.


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## kairus00 (Sep 9, 2021)

1. Your A/C condenser does not bring air into your home so having your generator nearby is not an issue. Point the generator's exhaust away from it so it's not running hot exhaust air over the coils.
2. Those resin boxes would be fine. I would cut out openings on two sides of the box towards the bottom and cover them with mesh. Propane is heavier than air so if there was a leak the propane would sink to the bottom and you will want a place for the propane to exit the box. The box isn't sealed but the extra vents would be peace of mind.
3. You can look up the regulations near you but generally a tank under 125 gallons (not pounds, and a 20lb tank is 4.6 gallons) can be directly up against a house but a minimum of 5 feet from any window/door openings. Not sure whether the screen room would be factored into that.

I wouldn't worry too much about the plastic shed getting too hot. Propane tanks are stored outside and in a lot of cases completely exposed to the sun. There are 500+ gallon tanks on farms across the country that are not sheltered in any way. The tanks have over pressure valves and are really quite safe, just don't start a fire and throw a tank in it!


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## Mobilesport (Jan 14, 2020)

How about a bigger generator with electric start and then you could power it on and off by remote control then you wouldn't have to go out in the cold.
Maybe a automatic transfer switch that would bypass your houses electrical supply whenever the genset is turned on , just keep it plugged in at all times , would probably want o hide the lines or run them under ground.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

kairus00 said:


> 1. Your A/C condenser does not bring air into your home so having your generator nearby is not an issue. Point the generator's exhaust away from it so it's not running hot exhaust air over the coils.
> 2. Those resin boxes would be fine. I would cut out openings on two sides of the box towards the bottom and cover them with mesh. Propane is heavier than air so if there was a leak the propane would sink to the bottom and you will want a place for the propane to exit the box. The box isn't sealed but the extra vents would be peace of mind.
> 3. You can look up the regulations near you but generally a tank under 125 gallons (not pounds, and a 20lb tank is 4.6 gallons) can be directly up against a house but a minimum of 5 feet from any window/door openings. Not sure whether the screen room would be factored into that.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the plastic shed getting too hot. Propane tanks are stored outside and in a lot of cases completely exposed to the sun. There are 500+ gallon tanks on farms across the country that are not sheltered in any way. The tanks have over pressure valves and are really quite safe, just don't start a fire and throw a tank in it!


you missed the air intake for the furnace is by the aircon unit.
also that furnace vent too close to the windows.
at least for code in my state.

depending on his area of the usa LP in town is tricky...some areas limit to 30 lb tanks.

best to get the local rules on LP...

oh yea in some areas the have home owners association for neighborhoods.
and a set of rules for those areas....

if you get a local variance make sure to get it in writing for sure.


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## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)

Your "16 SEER" air conditioner is not in fact efficient at all. We have one house with 4 tons of heatpumps (Mitsubishi Hyperheat and Fujitsu 25.3 SEER) and use only 2800 watts (within 100 more/less accuracy) with everything running at setpoint 70 F with outside temp 95 F. Pool pump, 3 refrigerators and even water heater (switched to 120v mode via 3 way control switch) in on. That is close to half the rated capacity on our EU7000ISNAN and it handles it nicely in ECO mode, running most of the time at 2500-2600 rpm speed.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

Mobilesport said:


> How about a bigger generator with electric start and then you could power it on and off by remote control then you wouldn't have to go out in the cold.
> Maybe a automatic transfer switch that would bypass your houses electrical supply whenever the genset is turned on , just keep it plugged in at all times , would probably want o hide the lines or run them under ground.


I could buy a whole house generator after all that.

I _am_ planning on getting a 120/240 generator though, which is why I'm thinking of this part first because that'll be too cumbersome to move back & forth. There is just no good place to put it. I'm in suburbia. Although no one generally goes into my backyard, leaving a $5000 Honda EU7000iS outside is a bad idea. So I make a portable generator work for me in some fashion, or go whole house. My needs are generally small though unless I want to fold in A/C. I can run all the essentials on this EU2200i. The exceptions are A/C and my electric clothes dryer, or using something like a microwave oven and coffee pot at the same time.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea the small gens rock when you are in amish mode!
GRIN!
i can get by with 1000 watts...
that is my winter load.

gens like to walk off....
at the least use cable lock or heavy heavy chain...

we like the concrete gen shacks for high security.
you can dress them up to look like another out building.
or blend them in...


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

iowagold said:


> yea the small gens rock when you are in amish mode!
> GRIN!
> i can get by with 1000 watts...
> that is my winter load.
> ...


Tell me more about these concrete gen shacks? I ask because if its big enough to house the generator and propane tanks, they would also be less hot than a plastic shed.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Robh said:


> Tell me more about these concrete gen shacks? I ask because if its big enough to house the generator and propane tanks, they would also be less hot than a plastic shed.


pm me for details.


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