# Full Power ?



## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

Way back in the 1990s I had a Craftsman 8500 w/ V-Twin Briggs & Stratton, I forget the surge watts.
On the panel were the usual 20a, 30a 50a plus one more labeled Full Power. 
That allowed the full 70+- amps created to flow into the panel plus whatever surge power. I've not seen a generator since with this full power outlet.

Many of the newer homeowner portables in the 15000-20000w range are limited to the 50amp outlet for max power which will only allow 30 or so amps to flow (80% of rated)
Without running cords all over the house to use the available wattage, how, if possible, can someone get the full rated wattage into the homes main panel from the generator.(this is for some folks I know who are all set up with the 50amp interlock system)
Seems a lot of power is being wasted, and a few happy bubbles are being burst when they discover that the 20000w unit they just dropped big$ on is only delivering less than 10000w to the home.
Thanks.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Unless it's a diesel generator, full power is not recommended for longer periods of time. A 50A outlet will provide short term surge power above it's rating, but this depends on the circuit protection used. You can combine or parallel outlets using an appropriate Y cable on some generators to increase the available power but you have to make sure the cable can handle the current. There may also be a way to bypass the existing outlets & breakers altogether and wire in your cable. You'd have to pull the generator connection panel and see what you have to work with. When you're talking 70 or more amps, you may be better off with a fixed install standby generator of appropriate size.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

cosmic said:


> Way back in the 1990s I had a Craftsman 8500 w/ V-Twin Briggs & Stratton, I forget the surge watts.
> On the panel were the usual 20a, 30a 50a plus one more labeled Full Power.
> That allowed the full 70+- amps created to flow into the panel plus whatever surge power. I've not seen a generator since with this full power outlet.
> 
> ...


The craftsman 8500 you mention rings a bell, I think a friend of mine has one actually. What do you mean by the panel having 20a 30a 50a and full power… Outlets? Switches? A 8500watt generator is rated at only 35amps…

Specifically what 15,000-20,000watt units are you referring too? One option for those folks are a modification to 100amp connectors and cords that cost and arm and a leg.

People need less power them they realize sometimes, and the whole 20,000 watt portable generator market has me scratching my head a bit. Massive fuel consumption and way more power then actually needed. The only real advantage to such a big generator for home backup isn’t necessarily its continuous rated power, it’s the momentary headroom for starting large inductive loads while managing a heavy steady load. Best examples are 5 ton ac units or pairs of central ACs. The fraction of a second where the motor demands lots of amps won’t trip a breaker or overheat conductors but needs to be available to get things turning.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

and if it is a simi permanent location generator (bolted down) you can do like they do on the BIG gens and use hard wired lugs.
but those need to be under a nema cover box for a safe run.
then run to an ats or manual transfer system.

on a 35 amp run gen i like to see the 50 amp connections so you do not get heat loss in the connectors in a long time run.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

Thanks all, good answers. 
About the 8500 I mentioned, the 20,30,50 I mentioned are outlets.
My bad on the math I calculated for 120v that gave me 70 amps.

At the time my electrician friend and I assumed that the Full Power outlet gave the normal 50amp yet allowed the full surge(can't remember) the generator could muster to flow temporarily without tripping a breaker. 
The biggest draw I had on that panel was the submersible jet pump deep down the well, it took more than a few seconds to get it going and the gen really powered up when it kicked on. 

I no longer have that gen, it stayed when I sold the property. But I do miss that machine, even though it was a gas hog.

Y'all answered my question of the 50amp limit on these big portable gens. 
My brother in law along with neighbors think they can be their own utility and power everything in the house with 15000- 20000watt units(Duromax, Generrac, Durostar) I know it ain't happening. 
He has a nice setup with the interlock system and a local Pro doing the connection and breaker work and he needs to learn to manage the available power better.
I told him that even the fully automatic systems only power a limited number of breakers and don't actually substitute for utility power. 

Meanwhile, I have my Predator 2000, some #12 cords and I'm very happy getting 12 hours on a gallon of gas on eco mode. The fridge is cold the fans run and the tv and lights are on. And its quiet !


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> The craftsman 8500 you mention rings a bell, I think a friend of mine has one actually. What do you mean by the panel having 20a 30a 50a and full power… Outlets? Switches? A 8500watt generator is rated at only 35amps…
> 
> Specifically what 15,000-20,000watt units are you referring too? One option for those folks are a modification to 100amp connectors and cords that cost and arm and a leg.
> 
> People need less power them they realize sometimes, and the whole 20,000 watt portable generator market has me scratching my head a bit. Massive fuel consumption and way more power then actually needed. The only real advantage to such a big generator for home backup isn’t necessarily its continuous rated power, it’s the momentary headroom for starting large inductive loads while managing a heavy steady load. Best examples are 5 ton ac units or pairs of central ACs. The fraction of a second where the motor demands lots of amps won’t trip a breaker or overheat conductors but needs to be available to get things turning.


I really liked the Craftsman 8500. 
It had the Briggs & Stratton V-Twin that would purr so nice, very little vibration and more than enough HP.
I wish I could remember the details better but that was in 1995. 
At first it was pull start, that soon became electric start. A little later a 100gallon fuel tank was added. 
It was a great unit, It got us through many outages over the years but she was well cared for.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

cosmic said:


> one more labeled Full Power


FULL POWER SWITCH - Switch used to convert every
receptacle on the panel, when placed in the 120 position,
to a 120 volt receptacle. This will allow you to receive the
full capacity of the generator by using all 120 volt receptacles.
When in the 120/240 position, you will only be able
to use half of the watts when using the 120 volt receptacles.
But in this position, the full watts can be received
in the 240 twistlock receptacle.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

tabora said:


> FULL POWER SWITCH - Switch used to convert every
> receptacle on the panel, when placed in the 120 position,
> to a 120 volt receptacle. This will allow you to receive the
> full capacity of the generator by using all 120 volt receptacles.
> ...


Yes i'v seen that switch on some units. I was talking about a Full Power outlet on the generator. 
It didn't have a rating marked, like 50amp or 30amp outlets are marked, just Full Power. 
I should mentioned the outlet had two blades and one prong, the electrician treated the feed wires like split phase.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

cosmic said:


> I was talking about a Full Power outlet on the generator.
> It didn't have a rating marked, like 50amp or 30amp outlets are marked, just Full Power.
> I should mentioned the outlet had two blades and one prong


So, not a *175 Amp Full Power Anderson Plug?























175 Amp Full Power Anderson Plug


The 175 Amp Full Power Anderson Plug is used for running 1 Phase 2 ploe 175 Amps power PTO portable generator circuits




www.toboaenergy.com




*


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

tabora said:


> So, not a *175 Amp Full Power Anderson Plug?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that’s a solution for the 20,000watt portables.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

*ha!
looks like they are rated to 600 volts ac and dc!*
*click here for the anderson power pole pdf data sheet with part numbers and accys for wet locations.*
*the cool thing is they show up to 1/0 for cable size and have water boots avl as well.
a bit of dielectric grease and i bet they would work ok in the damp.

well done tab!
we have only used these for low volt dc applications....
the stacking is kinda cool....
but they are HD and could need to be mounted on the one end so you can get them connected with all 4 at the same time...
they are BIG stuff to work with...
after they are setup they look ok.*


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

tabora said:


> So, not a *175 Amp Full Power Anderson Plug?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, not like that. I've seen those before, on trailer mounted units with big CAT diesel engines.
I don't have the gen any longer so I can't send a pic.
On homeowner market gens, I've not seen a model that has an outlet larger than 50amp.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

cosmic said:


> On homeowner market gens, I've not seen a model that has an outlet larger than 50amp.


I've seen them on Wincos and Big Dogs, up in the 18,000-22,000 Watt range... And also on the PTO styles up to 85,000 Watts.

*4-Wire Anderson Full Power Plug Included*
You supply the 4/0 THHN, we provide the plug.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

pretty cool tab!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

cosmic said:


> Way back in the 1990s I had a Craftsman 8500 w/ V-Twin Briggs & Stratton, I forget the surge watts.
> On the panel were the usual 20a, 30a 50a plus one more labeled Full Power.
> That allowed the full 70+- amps created to flow into the panel plus whatever surge power. I've not seen a generator since with this full power outlet.
> 
> ...


 The Winco generators have full power output for single connection. I think the 19000 watt model has the option for the plug for an additional $80.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

One of the other models has a 14-60 plug outlet as well, pretty uncommon.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

Ok, I decided to investigate adding a larger breaker to my generator. The master breaker is 75 amps. If I want to convert it to a single outlet generator with the master 75 amp breaker attached to the outlet, all I would have to do is rewire the two hots, red and black, coming from the bottom of 75 amp breaker and wire the neutral, white, and green stripped ground to that new plug. Hmmmm. Then I could get the entire 75 amps out of generator. That would still leave me with the problem of wire/cable from generator to inlet. I purchased 90C 600volt 4/4 guage wire. I believer that's rated for on'y 60 amps at say 50 feet? I think at minimum I will change the 50amp plug to 60amp one. That seems a not too expensive option.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

If you upgrade your 14-50 outlet to a 14-60 you’d need to upgrade the breaker as well. If you add an additional outlet rated at 60 amps you still need a breaker rated for 60amps in place. 

2/4 soow is an option, it’s rated at 80amps. No additional breaker nessesary but You’d need a connector rated accordingly though.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> If you upgrade your 14-50 outlet to a 14-60 you’d need to upgrade the breaker as well. If you add an additional outlet rated at 60 amps you still need a breaker rated for 60amps in place.
> 
> 2/4 soow is an option, it’s rated at 80amps. No additional breaker nessesary but You’d need a connector rated accordingly though.


 And I'm guessing the size of the wire going to outlet. If I stick in an outlet rated for 75 amps, then I could reduce the generator to a single outlet controlled by the 75amp main breaker with the wiring coming off the bottom of that 75 amp main breaker. Or I could wire the two loads off the main breaker, directly to the cord. Then the main breaker would serve the direct generator connection to limit the output to 75 amps.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

tabora said:


> I've seen them on Wincos and Big Dogs, up in the 18,000-22,000 Watt range... And also on the PTO styles up to 85,000 Watts.
> 
> *4-Wire Anderson Full Power Plug Included*
> You supply the 4/0 THHN, we provide the plug.
> ...


4/0 is a fat wire, I have about 18' 4/0 THHN 9' black, 9' red for a solar project that didn't work out at all.
I'll stick with generators.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> And I'm guessing the size of the wire going to outlet. If I stick in an outlet rated for 75 amps, then I could reduce the generator to a single outlet controlled by the 75amp main breaker with the wiring coming off the bottom of that 75 amp main breaker. Or I could wire the two loads off the main breaker, directly to the cord. Then the main breaker would serve the direct generator connection to limit the output to 75 amps.


Depends on the size of the wire you already have. In open air you use the 90degree column for ampacity as long as the insulation is listed. 



https://www.uglys.net/docs/default-source/uglys-documents/errata/UglysResidentialWiring2017_Errata_Page2.pdf



Your call on having the connections removable or hard wired at the generator. It’s a bunch more money to have removable connectors at the generator and the house. 100amp and 125amp pin connectors are almost the same price at at $500 a pair. 2/4 soow is about $10 a foot.

The Anderson connector appears to be a cheaper solution though I haven’t seen the price of a receptacle just the plug.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

the anderson is the same on both ends
they just have a chassis mount for the gen.
and then the handle for the cord ends


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I can’t seem to find a panel mount for it.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> I can’t seem to find a panel mount for it.


Look on page 10 of the attached drawings. It's just 2 of the Anderson shells sandwiched between a couple of angle brackets.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

tabora said:


> Look on page 10 of the attached drawings. It's just 2 of the Anderson shells sandwiched between a couple of angle brackets.


I see how an OEM accomplished it. But I can’t find a modular mounting solution. Something like this, clean easy mounting with protective cover.





175A Double Black Anderson SB175 Panel Mount Insect/dust - Etsy


This panel mount allows 2 x Anderson SB175 plugs to be hidden on the mounting surface, giving an aesthetically pleasing look to the caravan, 4x4, boat, truck, wall etc. Insect/dust covers are also included so wasp nests are a thing of the past. This product is 3D printed using polyethylene




www.etsy.com




It’s two pairs instead of a single quad, but you see what I mean.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Depends on the size of the wire you already have. In open air you use the 90degree column for ampacity as long as the insulation is listed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If you look at pic of wiring, wire coming off generator head rated for 75 amps is much larger than the outlet right next to the main breaker which is the 50 amp breaker. I would need larger wire.

Really I think what is missed in the discussion of larger generators is the starting watts which enable one to start and run central air units. The amount of continuous power off a 50 amp connection is really enough to run my household and a central air unit without the need to add a jump start kit to the central air. Also I think if you are going to run 10000 watts continuous, you need a generator with substantial greater capacity if you plan to run that for several days/weeks drawing 10000 watts. It's still cheaper for me to just hardwire my pool pump to make use of an additional 30 amp outlet.

At first I was baffled at to why a single connection allowing for the full power connection to this generators isn't included. But if you investigate further the reasons become more apparent. There are no generator inlet boxes with connectors to match. The cost of the connectors adds hundreds of dollar to the cost of a 3k generator.

However, the 60 amp connector is a reasonable upgrade! Upgrade the wiring to that outlet, change outlet and breakers to 60 amp and replace the 50 amp receptacle on my generator inlet box with a 60 amp one and that should do it. The combination of the 60 amps to the house and the 30 amp connection to the pool will allow me the get the full power from my 18000 watt continuous generator with minimal cost. My pool has a subpanel. I need to see how I can add an inlet to it, thus eliminating the need to hardware the pump, just have to run two cords. Not bad!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

Another option with a single 60 amp connection to power whole house. 16000-Storm-King2.jpg (4032×3024) (gatorgenerator.com) No fuel tank, barebones and reduced weight. Stick hose in tank. But need a BIG TANK.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> It’s two pairs instead of a single quad, but you see what I mean.


You could certainly use one of the JamdonGear panel mounts. You'd just need to add spacer(s) between the two Anderson shells on the plug assembly and use longer screws to match the receptacle spacing. That's one of the beauties on the Anderson connectors; mix and match any way you want.

If 75Amps is enough for you, you could use this PP75 receptacle:
















Black Anderson Powerpole PP75 4pole Panel Mount - Etsy


This Car Accessories item by JamdonGear has 10 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Australia. Listed on Dec 1, 2022




www.etsy.com


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Bulldogger said:


> Another option with a single 60 amp connection to power whole house. 16000-Storm-King2.jpg (4032×3024) (gatorgenerator.com) No fuel tank, barebones and reduced weight. Stick hose in tank. But need a BIG TANK.


Interesting lineup. No prices listed on the site, though. Probably more contractor grade than consumer grade.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

cosmic said:


> Many of the newer homeowner portables in the 15000-20000w range are limited to the 50amp outlet for max power which will only allow 30 or so amps to flow (80% of rated)


 My generator has a "master" 75 amp breaker. The 50 amp, push button thermal breaker, downstream located on the outlet. typically will not trip at 100% load. I am pretty sure, you get the full 50 amps.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

LaSwamp said:


> Interesting lineup. No prices listed on the site, though. Probably more contractor grade than consumer grade.


 Yeah. Looks like they have a model for me with 60 amp outlet  BULLDOG 16,000 Watts | GATOR GENERATORS . I like the way my current generator runs on propane so any generator I'd own would have to have the ability to be converted to propane. I'll call and ask price. I like the engines.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

Thanks everyone for sorting through the 50 amp limit for the homeowner level generators and finding workarounds.
I won't be passing this information on to a bunch of weekend warriors who don't need to be fooling around with the workings of high voltage and the safety system built into their units. 
We are all safer this way.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea there are a lot of cool mods out there for pro users.
and those of us who are not on a tight budget.


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## cosmic (Jul 1, 2021)

So true Paul, but the best mods should be reserved for those who know which end of a screwdriver to use. Sometime a little knowledge can be a bad thing in the wrong hands.


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