# 5000 watt Coleman wont run Samsung Fridge



## Banditmatt

Hi everyone,


We were hit with a Hurricane this last weekend and I decided to try out my new to me 5000 watt Coleman Generator with a surge of 6250 I believe. 


I have used it a few times running power tools but this is the first power outage we have had since I've had it.


My house isn't wired so I was using a heavy extension cord to (110) to run certain things like lights and our microwave. 


The problem I had was when I tried to run the Samsung fridge. It only about 2 years old and when I connected the power cord to it, it would just buzz. The interior light would work and the blue display would work too but the compressor wouldn't start. 


I even tried a shorter power cord with no luck. I figured since a microwave would run, the generator should be able to power the fridge?


any ideas?


thanks


----------



## exmar

Hmmm, not familiar with Coleman or Samsung, but, as I recall a 20A circuit is required for a frig. 20AX120V=2400Watts so you should have plenty of power, unless you've loaded it up with AC's, etc. Isn't Samsung the one you have to push a reset or something after a power interruption so it'll start?

If you have a voltmeter, measure the output voltage (ideally at the same receptacle the extension is plugged in) while the frig is trying to start and report back. "Heavy duty" extension cord in this application should be at least 14 but preferably 12 gauge wire, depending on the length.

FWIW, I power a "side by side" frig and a large upright freezer and assorted lights, tv, etc. with a 3250W unit.

I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will be along shortly.

Good luck,


----------



## Banditmatt

At the time I had nothing else drawing off the generator. One cord off it directly to the fridge


----------



## RedOctobyr

You should have plenty of power available. I run our simple 14 year old fridge off a 2000W-peak inverter generator, with other things running as well. 

If the generator has an auto-idle function, disable that before plugging in the fridge. Make sure the generator is running at the fast RPM, not the lower idle RPM. Worst case, have the generator already running a lamp or something, to get the generator out of idle mode, and up to full speed. 

It's possible that the fridge doesn't like the quality of the incoming power. I've heard people say that some modern furnaces may not run off typical "contractor" generators, and that some are sensitive enough that they need an inverter generator to run properly. But hopefully that's not the case here.


----------



## tabora

Is the Coleman Model PM0435005? It looks like it's capable of a full 20A at each of the 120V outlets, so as long as the cord is large enough (12 gauge?) to supply the full current, it should be able to run any "normal" fridge. What's the model number of the Samsung? The digital models I looked up all seem to be 10Amp units, or 1200Watts. Starting Watts can be up to 3x that, or about 3600Watts. You SHOULD be OK...


----------



## Banditmatt

thanks for the reply’s guys. The Generator is a Coleman powerbase 5000 with a 10 hp tecumseh motor. Pc0525302.05 or 93390396. The fridge is a Rf22inctasr. I was using a 12 ga cord. The generator doesn’t seem to have an idle. It’s pretty much wide open once you start it.


----------



## tabora

Banditmatt said:


> thanks for the reply’s guys. The Generator is a Coleman powerbase 5000 with a 10 hp tecumseh motor. Pc0525302.05 or 93390396. The fridge is a Rf22inctasr. I was using a 12 ga cord. The generator doesn’t seem to have an idle. It’s pretty much wide open once you start it.


 OK, that older PC0525302.05 only has 15Amp 120V receptacles, so it may be borderline for your fridge. Try a split-leg 120V cord from the L14-20 connector like this: 




Your Rf22inctasr fridge has a digital inverter compressor. The digital inverter allows the speed of the compressor to be controlled so that it starts slowly, increases its speed and once the desired temperature is reached, it can slow down to maintain the desired temperature rather than turning completely off. So maybe what you're seeing is completely normal...

Here's the generator manual insert if you don't have it: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/134049/Powermate-Pc0525302-05.html?page=1#manual


----------



## Banditmatt

Thanks for the info. I’m going to pick one up and give it a try!


----------



## RedOctobyr

I hope you'll have more success with the other outlet, but I'm not holding my breath. If the compressor is variable speed, then perhaps it's programmed to ramp up the speed slowly anyhow, to be smoother & less noticeable. If so, I would expect a gradual start to draw less amps than a normal fridge. 

With a Kill-A-Watt, or similar meter, you could check how many amps the fridge draws during startup, on utility power. 

Have you checked the AC voltage coming from the generator? That's easy enough, at least. Checking frequency of the power would be nice too, but that is tougher to do without a Kill-A-Watt, or tachometer.


----------



## tabora

Also, here's some info on troubleshooting inverter compressor fridges... https://appliantology.org/blogs/ent...ot-the-new-inverter-compressor-refrigerators/

The Kill-A-Watt will help here, too.


----------



## Predator

I have that same generator. It's LOUD.

I also could not run my fridge with it. Here's why.....

Dirty power. I put my Coleman PowerMate 6250 on my oscilloscope and the sine wave is very noisy.

What is happening is your fridge's electronics are not able utilize the power because it is not clean enough power.

Years ago when I tried, I was able to get mine to start up and run, but it would not get cold. That generator can also permanently damage your fridge's electronics. Seems odd that you buy a generator and then cannot use it for the things you need but with that one, the power is just too dirty. I have since bought INVERTER generators to run the fridge and sensitive electronics like computers. 

The power from that NON-Inverter generator is good for incandescent lighting (but not LED) and a water heater and anything else that can work with "dirty" power.....but not for appliances with sensitive electronics. Back when this Coleman Powermate 6250 was all I had, I bought a 2000Watt Inverter from Harbor Freight and ran my fridge with that using my car batteries and used the generator to recharge the batteries. I could run my fridge overnight with a 700AH car battery.

Just remember this: That particular generator "might" run some appliances, but it stands a fairly good chance of damaging it even if it does run it. Other, newer non inverter generators might work better if they are designed and made to have somewhat cleaner power output.



I've never tried them nor do I know any one who has, but these things claim to "clean up" dirty power.....
StetzeriZer Dirty Electricity Filter


Hope that helps.


----------



## Banditmatt

Predator said:


> I have that same generator. It's LOUD.
> 
> I also could not run my fridge with it. Here's why.....
> 
> Dirty power. I put my Coleman PowerMate 6250 on my oscilloscope and the sine wave is very noisy.
> 
> What is happening is your fridge's electronics are not able utilize the power because it is not clean enough power.
> 
> Years ago when I tried, I was able to get mine to start up and run, but it would not get cold. That generator can also permanently damage your fridge's electronics. Seems odd that you buy a generator and then cannot use it for the things you need but with that one, the power is just too dirty. I have since bought INVERTER generators to run the fridge and sensitive electronics like computers.
> 
> The power from that NON-Inverter generator is good for incandescent lighting (but not LED) and a water heater and anything else that can work with "dirty" power.....but not for appliances with sensitive electronics. Back when this Coleman Powermate 6250 was all I had, I bought a 2000Watt Inverter from Harbor Freight and ran my fridge with that using my car batteries and used the generator to recharge the batteries. I could run my fridge overnight with a 700AH car battery.
> 
> Just remember this: That particular generator "might" run some appliances, but it stands a fairly good chance of damaging it even if it does run it. Other, newer non inverter generators might work better if they are designed and made to have somewhat cleaner power output.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never tried them nor do I know any one who has, but these things claim to "clean up" dirty power.....
> StetzeriZer Dirty Electricity Filter
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.



Your right it is super loud. It runs great though, one or two pulls and its up and running. 


Thats a shame about your fridge, that's probably the same problem I have then.


A friend of mine has the same generator and he runs his fridge, he said it was only a few years old (the fridge) might be just because its a different model


----------



## Predator

Banditmatt said:


> Your right it is super loud. It runs great though, one or two pulls and its up and running.
> Thats a shame about your fridge, that's probably the same problem I have then.
> A friend of mine has the same generator and he runs his fridge, he said it was only a few years old (the fridge) might be just because its a different model


Yeah, I agree that it is a shame. I guess it's why inverter Generators are so popular today.

Speaking strictly about the Coleman PowerMate 6250 NON inverter generator.....

Different generators might make slightly different waveforms. Maybe some make cleaner power than others.
Also, different refrigerators might have different components, some able to handle the dirty power better than others.

My 6250 looks brand new. I take stupid good care of it....as if it's a sports car.....lol
But the oscilloscope doesn't lie.
The power coming out of it is VERY noisy and that is not good for sensitive electronics.
It makes them run hotter at the very least, or can downright damage IC chips and diodes etc or even circuit boards.
I would say that the longer you run something with dirty power, the more likely it is to damage it.

Maybe your friends fridge has built in line noise suppression?
Does he have the fridge plugged into a surge protector? 
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if your friend starts having trouble with his refrigerator if he keeps powering it with the Coleman generator.
I could get mine to run....but it didn't get cold. 


I've been thinking about using large capacitors to help smooth the output. I haven't really looked into it yet but I do know Inverter generators use large capacitors to help with that.


Here's a site that shows the power output from house AC and then a number of battery backup and generators. You can see what "dirty power" looks like
http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/
.
.
.
.


----------



## RedOctobyr

What would the capacitors do, to help with AC? Or where would they go?

As far as trying to improve the power, I don't know how much line conditioners really do. You'd need to put a scope on the incoming power, and what comes out, to better understand that. But without knowing that one would help, it makes me wonder about just trying a different generator, if possible. Rather than paying for a band-aid on the underlying problem, which may not do enough to fix it. 

I don't know whether an online UPS might be able to better serve the role of cleaning up the generator power. But a big one would still be expensive.


----------



## Predator

RedOctobyr said:


> What would the capacitors do, to help with AC? Or where would they go?
> 
> As far as trying to improve the power, I don't know how much line conditioners really do. You'd need to put a scope on the incoming power, and what comes out, to better understand that. But without knowing that one would help, it makes me wonder about just trying a different generator, if possible. Rather than paying for a band-aid on the underlying problem, which may not do enough to fix it.
> 
> I don't know whether an online UPS might be able to better serve the role of cleaning up the generator power. But a big one would still be expensive.


The problem with a UPS, at least from my experience, is that they don't like dirty power input any more than any other sensitive electronics.
I was unsuccessful at running my APC and other battery backups from the Coleman Powermate non inverter generator. They just said NO thank you.
Other non inverter generators may produce somewhat "cleaner" power however and might work.

Agreed. Inverter generators have come down in price significantly. still, I don't want to assume anyone's budget. Some are on very tight budgets.
When all I had was the Coleman Powermate non inverter generator, I just did the best I could.

A dirty power generator like the Coleman PowerMate 6250 will run standard incandescent lighting, fans and water heaters. In fact, the primary reason I keep my old non inverter generator is specifically to run the water heater in case of an extended power outage. The Bunny Princess (my girl) couldn't dare take a cold shower...no way :tango_face_smile_bi.
.
.


----------



## Predator

I would highly recommend to the OP that he try to save up and get at the very least a 2000watt inverter Generator such as the Pulsar pg2000is to compliment his existing non inverter generator. He can make use of both but the inverter generator is much better for the fridge and other electronics.

They can be bought for around $400 and occasionally I've seen them on sale for as low as $320 with free shipping !
There are many brands to choose from. Most of the $300 - $400 range inverter generators are probably comparable. I happen to own a Pulsar and the quality is very good.
harbor Freight has the Predator series in that general price range and they are also good. I have a Predator 3500 Inverter Generator.
.
.
.


----------



## Predator

Here's the exact Sine Waveform from this particular generator.
As you can clearly see, the sine waveform is not pretty.
All those irregularities are hard on sensitive electronics.


While you "might" get your refrigerator to run on it...even for some time, it is damaging the electronics and will shorten the overall lifespan of the appliance.
This type of waveform is ok for incandescent lighting, fans, water heater.....but I can't recommend it for things with electronic circuits.
It's not "The Worse" Sine wave I've seen, but it's down the line pretty far.

Sine Waveform Coleman PowerMate 6250 NON Inverter Generator (5000watts running, 6250 Peak)


----------



## Predator

Update on THIS particular generator.......

It does not use an AVR. Instead it uses two capacitors and some simple electronics to "smooth out" the power.

All an AVR does is keep the voltage within specs. If you disconnect the appliance before starting or stopping the generator, AND it's not spiking (mine is not) then the AVR shouldn't make much if any difference in the output quality.

Over time, capacitors breakdown and lose their capacitance. If you can solder, replacing them might help.
I've read that replacement capacitors must have the same rating (microfarads)
There may also be some electronic filters that can further help smooth out the power.
If I find anything that works particularly well I'll post it.


I have several Inverter generators now so this is not my primary generator.


----------



## SHJM

I have a Coleman 1500 watt (1850 surge) generator with B&S engine that I am running a 29.8 cubic foot Samsung side by side with bottom freezer, two 7 cubic foot chest freezers and a Ryobi 18v battery charger from with no problems. Blew my mind when the little red miracle started on the second pull of the cord after 12 years of sitting on the shelf. It’s been running for over 24 hours straight now through the pouring rain following a tornado that ripped through our neighborhood yesterday.


----------



## Airstreamer67

Good Show!

You must have stored it well...especially draining the carb of fuel to prevent the gum.


----------



## billt

Banditmatt said:


> ...... My house isn't wired so *I was using a heavy extension cord to (110) to run certain things like lights and our microwave.......*The problem I had was when I tried to run the Samsung fridge. It only about 2 years old and *when I connected the power cord to it, it would just buzz...... I even tried a shorter power cord with no luck.*


Forget the generator for a minute. A 5,000 watt generator should run ANY fridge / freezer without any issues. What is the length and gauge cord you are using? Heavy start up draw appliances in general do not like extension cords. (fridge / freezers, air compressors, window air conditioners.

Especially long small gauge extension cords. I found this out real fast with my air compressor in cold weather. No matter what I did, or which cord I tried, it would trip the breaker. I have seen countless problems arise with people using long, cheap, small gauge extension cords.

So I went to Harbor Freight and bought this....









25 ft. x 10/3 Gauge Triple Tap Extension Cord, Yellow


Amazing deals on this 25Ft X 10G Triple Tap Extension Cord at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com





It solved the problem immediately. After that I ONLY use 10 gauge extension cords with my generators. And I never use one that is any longer than I require. (Usually 25 ft. max.) That is the first thing I would try, before you start worrying about anything to do with the gen set itself. Short, heavy gauge, (10 gauge), extension cords will distribute power from ANY generator far better, and will eliminate any potential problems of choking off power by using too long, and / or too small of a gauge cord.


----------

