# Propane and natural gas pressure



## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

One of the companies that does propane & NG conversions is Genconnex Direct. They have some information listed on their website which I have not seen anywhere else. Check the attached PDF files.
Genconnex Direct - Propane & natural gas Honda portable generators

Using the EU7000iS conversion as an example, on page 2 they list that you need larger than a 30lb tank in order to vaporize propane fast enough to handle the EU7000iS appetite. The EU3000iS is in the same boat to a lesser extent.


Has anyone seen this before?
I assume Genconnex is not unique so wouldn't this be true of any conversion kit with a larger generator?
Would this also happen with a natural gas hookup?
For those who have done propane conversions on an EU7000iS or similar sized unit, have you experienced an issue using a smaller propane tank and/or natural gas hookup?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

simple use a lp tank blanket.
those work!


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

I can run my Powermate PM0126000 6000/7500W generator (LCT414 engine - about the same size engine as the EU7000is GX390) on a 20lb tank, but if it's cold out I put the tank on the end of my generator shed where the exhaust air blows on it to keep it warm.


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## aandpdan (Oct 8, 2012)

The issue is vaporization of fuel. Propane "boils" to produce gas for the generator. It's a function of temperature and volume. On a warm day a small tank would suffice but as the temperature drops you won't produce enough gas to run the generator. With more volume you can produce more gas at a given temperature - hence the bigger tank requirement.
It won't be an issue with a piped in supply of natural gas.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

For what Honda charges for their generators, every one of them should be dual fuel. You shouldn't have to go out and spend even more money on a kit to convert them. That's insane. There are plenty of portable generators currently on the market, both inverter, and non inverter type, that come out of the box ready to go on either gasoline or propane. And they ALL cost far less than Honda. So there is absolutely zero reason why Honda can't provide it. They just choose not to. Both of my Westinghouse units came with dual fuel. And they can even be switched on the fly from one to the other.

One of the biggest problems with gasoline only generators, (along with a lot of other small engine power equipment), are fuel system issues and problems caused by gummed up carburetors, from bad gasoline stored in them over time. Propane eliminates ALL of that crap. And I don't care what anyone say's about how wonderful Honda generators are or aren't. They're not worth it if they don't start when you need them. And that is far more likely to happen with a unit that's run on gasoline instead of propane.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

Robh said:


> Using the EU7000iS conversion as an example, *on page 2 they list that you need larger than a 30lb tank in order to vaporize propane fast enough to handle the EU7000iS appetite.* The EU3000iS is in the same boat to a lesser extent.


This doesn't sound right at all to me. I say that because both of my 9,500 Watt Westinghouse units run fine off a 20 pound tank. Even under a heavy load. I've even run both generators off a single 20 pound tank with a "Y" connector. And I doubt a Honda with 2,500 Watts less output is going to require more fuel to produce less power.

Not only that, but I also have a 80,000 BTU propane heater in my garage, that also runs fine on a 20 pound tank. *And it drinks propane,* like a potbellied fan drinks beer at a ball park. The regulator gets ice cold. But it has zero effect on how it runs. It roars like a J-79 in full afterburner. 

Yes, I live in Arizona and don't have to deal with sub zero temperatures. But as was mentioned, you can purchase one of those electric warmer jackets, that will keep the tank warm. It will take some output from your generator, but It will keep the tank sufficiently warm.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

Yes Hondas are expensive, but they're also better. See my recent post here: Honda vs the world!

My thinking is this... If I buy a small generator where portability is a factor, I want it to output as much power as possible and not fudge the numbers. So I sucked it up and bought a Honda EU2200i.

If I buy a bigger generator, I can go cheaper and just "shoot higher" to make up for the inefficiencies. I'm still way ahead of the price compared to a Honda. Of course, none of this matters if the cheaper generator doesn't work or lasts long.

Quality vs quantity still matters. Unfortunately Honda knows this and nobody else touches them, so they charge for it. Honda even beats Yamaha which means for the prices that Yamaha attempts to charge, I'm surprised ANYBODY buys a Yamaha. Just buy the Honda, or go with a cheaper Chinese model.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

None of that has anything to do with the fact, that for what they charge, *they should be dual fuel right from the box, period.* You should not have to pay more, then be forced to go out and purchase some type of aftermarket "kit" to convert it. And then most likely be rewarded with a voided warranty in the process. That can be called a lot of things, but "better" is far from it.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

billt said:


> None of that has anything to do with the fact, that for what they charge, *they should be dual fuel right from the box, period.* You should not have to pay more, then be forced to go out and purchase some type of aftermarket "kit" to convert it. And then most likely be rewarded with a voided warranty in the process. That can be called a lot of things, but "better" is far from it.


best to express this to honda customer service direct.
if enough of us want those features.
they will add them.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

billt said:


> None of that has anything to do with the fact, that for what they charge, *they should be dual fuel right from the box, period.* You should not have to pay more, then be forced to go out and purchase some type of aftermarket "kit" to convert it. And then most likely be rewarded with a voided warranty in the process. That can be called a lot of things, but "better" is far from it.


Perhaps you should give some thought as to WHY Honda doesn't offer propane as a standard feature. Perhaps it's a valid engineering reason. On the EU7000iS, the machine is fuel injected and computer controlled with remote starting capability. Introducing propane into that equation would add a LOT to the cost.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

tabora said:


> Perhaps you should give some thought as to WHY Honda doesn't offer propane as a standard feature. Perhaps it's a valid engineering reason. On the EU7000iS, the machine is fuel injected and computer controlled with remote starting capability. Introducing propane into that equation would add a LOT to the cost.


Remote start has nothing to do with dual fuel capability. Both of my units have remote start, AND dual fuel capability. And they cost less than half as much, and put out 4,000 watts more. (9,500 running watts vs. 5,500). The engines are cast iron sleeve, overhead valve, just like Honda. And just like Honda, are produced in China.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

iowagold said:


> best to express this to honda customer service direct.
> if enough of us want those features.
> they will add them.


If folks didn't want those features, I doubt companies would bother manufacturing conversion kits to do the job, that Honda could have, and should have right from the factory.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

billt said:


> Remote start has nothing to do with dual fuel capability.


It does. The feed to the demand regulator has to be capable of being fully shut off via an electric valve.


billt said:


> The engines are cast iron sleeve, overhead valve, just like Honda. And just like Honda, are produced in China.



And no fuel injection.
And Honda IS NOT built in China. GX engines for the U.S. market are built at the excellent Honda plant in Thailand.
Better get your "facts" straight.


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

tabora said:


> ...............Better get your "facts" straight.


There is nothing wrong with my facts. This news is over 15 years old. Where have you been? And as I said, aftermarket companies in this country, have been marketing propane conversion kits for Honda generators for quite some time now. This isn't a Moon shot. If they can do it here for a profit, are you going to sit there and tell me Honda can't in China, Thailand or anywhere else for that matter?









Honda Global | April 11, 2005 Honda and Jialing Announce Business Direction in China


Honda Global | Honda and Jialing Announce Business Direction in China




global.honda


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

billt said:


> There is nothing wrong with my facts. This news is over 15 years old. Where have you been?


Sorry, but you're dead wrong. Those are not the engines that come to the United States. Why are you beating this dead horse? Doesn't sound like you're a Honda owner or even a prospect.
I'll just refer you to this information on Honda Manufacturing USA. See posts 3 & 5 for starters...








Honda Snow Blower Information Repository


Honda Snow Blower Model Number Decoding: Example: HSS1332ACTD/A HS = Honda Snow Blower S = Small Frame (some say Steering) 13 = Nominal Gross HP (5=GX140, 6=GX160, 7=GX200, 8=GX240, 9=GX270, 11=GX340, 13=GX390) 32 = Clearing Width (inches = 22, 24, 28, 32, 36 or centimeters = 55, 60, 70, 80...




www.snowblowerforum.com


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## billt (Dec 11, 2020)

tabora said:


> Doesn't sound like you're a Honda owner or even a prospect.


Look, you're a big Honda fanboy, that bleeds Honda red. I get that. And that is fine. And while your brand loyalty is indeed impressive, it does not constitute holy writ. And while I'm sure your Honda Power Equipment baseball cap collection is spectacular, all I ask is just please don't leak on my head, and tell me it's raining. Or for that matter, make assumptions you don't have a single clue about.

Over the years I have most likely owned more Honda products than you have. Lawn mowers, snow blowers, motorcycles (3), and yes, even that cute little overpriced, EM-600 watt generator in the photo. That I purchased new back in 1985.... That has been, since day one, notoriously hard starting. (Especially if cold, and with a half tank of fuel or less). And which has a horrible problem with crankcase fuel dilution. So much so that it requires oil changes every 5 to 8 hours, or the crankcase will overfill with diluted oil. 40W going in.... 5W gas oil mix coming out.

The cute little cookie sheet sitting underneath it was from Dollar General. And works considerably better than paper towels for containing all the oil that leaks from underneath the thing. Over the last 36 years I've had it to no less than 3 "Honda Authorized Service Centers" in 2 states. (Illinois and Arizona). All 3 have told me that, "It's operating normally". So "normal" operation of a 600 watt generator, that cost me $450.00 new 36 years ago, entails continual hard starting, leaking oil, and more gasoline getting into the crankcase than a 2 stroke.

I'm not trying to bash Honda products. I'm sure overall they're as good or better than what's out there for half the price, and does twice as much. And the fact is, ALL of this type of equipment is made all over the Pacific Rim, and has been for years. I don't care who makes it. All I'm saying is Honda is not the end all, cure all. Nowhere near. And constantly making excuses for them doesn't improve their products, or make them priced where they belong, for what they offer.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

billt said:


> If folks didn't want those features, I doubt companies would bother manufacturing conversion kits to do the job, that Honda could have, and should have right from the factory.


so have you emailed honda customer service yet?


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

billt said:


> Over the years I have most likely owned more Honda products than you have.


I would doubt it... For the record, I own the following Hondas currently (does not include any former units of which there were many):

2007 Honda Civic EX
2017 Honda HSS1332AATD snow blower
1987 HS80K1TAS snow blower (GX240 engine now on Super Tomahawk chipper/shredder)
Mantis 7264-12-02 with Honda GX25
CMXGWAS020735 pressure washer with Honda GCV190
1983 HR214SXA mower (converted to HR214SMA)
HRM215K3SDA mower
1990 Honda Transalp - Rider Magazine Retrospective article here: Rider Magazine Retrospective: Honda XL600V Transalp: 1989 – 1990 | Rider Magazine
1988 NX250
1989 NX250
1988 NX125
1981 NX50
1977 CT90
It would seem that your rant has gone far off the focused target of the EU7000iS and factory multi-fuel options. When I said that it doesn't sound like you're a Honda owner or even a prospect, I was referring specifically to the EU7000iS...

You've simply made some incorrect statements, and I've attempted to correct them; that's all.


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