# Is it safe to use a surge protector on a portable generator?



## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

I have looked on the net and people say "with a portable generator not being properly earthed its not a good idea",. Is this true?


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Absolutely safe to use a surge protector, if everything is properly wired and grounded to code. Your portable generator SHOULD ALWAYS be properly grounded as either a standalone system with a ground rod or a separately derived system that utilizes the building ground. I have a 45Amp GenerLink with 100KA surge protection built in to connect my generator to the main panel. Mine is an older model, but here is the current one: GenerLink 40 Amp Meter Mounted Transfer Switch with 75kA Per Phase Surge Protection-MA24-S - The Home Depot


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

speedy2019 said:


> I have looked on the net and people say "with a portable generator not being properly earthed its not a good idea",. Is this true?


amen tabora!
and speedy it is all about reference.. voltage and current is not an issue if it does not have a reference.
they say the generator chassis must be grounded at the generator location in all of the manuals.

here is why when you plug in on most generators do not have isolated chassis ground. the metal parts of the chassis can have some sort of voltage on it. or hot skin. bad thing when you touch something!! ZAPPO!

one of the over looked things in a grid system is the gas pipes and water connection in a house.
gas pipes in some areas of the country and at some houses that have remote LP (liquid propane) tanks and natural gas connections to the gas grid do not have an ground isolator to the street or to the tank in the yard.
this is a new requirement now.
so in side the house the gas pipes need to be grounded to a good spot with good ground stakes.
the same is on water pipes in old houses, they used to ground the gas pipes to the water pipes.
but now days with plastic water and drain pipes a metal sink could have a charge on it...

then there is the faulty electric water heater where the electrode could be eroded thru..
and letting 240 volts come in contact with the water.. add that to a drain that is earthed or grounded and zappo!!
with wet hands!!
same in a shower or bath tub...

so inspect your cords as well as site survey with the proper meters.
and make sure the whole grid and generator system is connected right.
and inspect the electrical wiring too! mice love to chew on electrical cords as well as dogs and cats!!

if you are not real good with electrical it is a good idea to have a good electrician help with your inspection and setup of your back up system...

every system is different. and has different needs.
the big priority needs to be on a safe connection and a safe run.

stay safe out there!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

oh yea if you have not checked your grounds on your system. always check the electric boxes and system grounds every year.
I do it the same time period that I change out the smoke detector and co detector battery's.
it is just smart to check!
or if I get a heavy lightning storm.
then I always look close for electrical system damage.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Sooo is it safe to use a surge protector on a portable generator? My generator isn't connected up to the house, I plug stuff into extension leads, so no need to have the generator grounded/earthed. The generator has a earth/ground connector and Im guessing I would need to use that connector if I had the generator connected up to the house?


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

speedy2019 said:


> Sooo is it safe to use a surge protector on a portable generator?


As stated above in post 2, yes, if you've grounded it properly.


speedy2019 said:


> My generator isn't connected up to the house, I plug stuff into extension leads, so no need to have the generator grounded/earthed. The generator has a earth/ground connector and Im guessing I would need to use that connector if I had the generator connected up to the house?


No, you've got it backwards. Sounds like you should be using a ground rod in your situation. If the genset were connected to your home, the building ground would be doing the job.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

the generator frame acts as a grounding rod and a grounding rod is needed if the generator is connected up to your house apparently? Do I Need To Ground My Portable Generator? - ToughAssTools.com

So if thats the case with the frame acting as a grounding rod I should be able to use a surge protector connected to the generator, if everything gets grounded properly?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

speedy2019 said:


> the generator frame acts as a grounding rod and a grounding rod is needed if the generator is connected up to your house apparently? Do I Need To Ground My Portable Generator? - ToughAssTools.com
> 
> So if thats the case with the frame acting as a grounding rod I should be able to use a surge protector connected to the generator, if everything gets grounded properly?


use the surge protection as you would in the normal whole house and point of use surge protection.
click here to see this page for the good whole house surge protection


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

speedy2019 said:


> the generator frame acts as a grounding rod and a grounding rod is needed if the generator is connected up to your house apparently? Do I Need To Ground My Portable Generator? - ToughAssTools.com


https://toughasstools.com/do-i-need-to-ground-my-portable-generator/
What does your user manual say for YOUR generator? Don't use an unrelated source of information for your unit.


speedy2019 said:


> So if thats the case with the frame acting as a grounding rod I should be able to use a surge protector connected to the generator, if everything gets grounded properly?


The generic statement that the frame is "acting as a ground rod" is like me "acting as a Brad Pitt". Leaves something to be desired. Again, do what your manual states. Bonding matters.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

tab lol on the brad pitt!
I at least I hope it it was on a good day to be a stand in!!


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

I have had a quick look in the manual and it doesnt say anything about grounding, Is there any other way to check if its grounded?



https://unionmart.co.uk/instructions_pdfs/bohmer/generator-w-series-instruction-manual-v1.pdf


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

speedy2019 said:


> I have had a quick look in the manual and it doesnt say anything about grounding, Is there any other way to check if its grounded?
> 
> 
> https://unionmart.co.uk/instructions_pdfs/bohmer/generator-w-series-instruction-manual-v1.pdf


The information in that manual is insufficient to determine whether a ground rod should be used in a standalone implementation like yours. The manual cannot even decide whether the generator was manufactured by Böhler-AG or Böhmer-AG. I would suggest consulting directly with the manufacturer, if you can determine which it is.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Thanks, and I will get intouch with unionmark.co.uk who sold it me...It will be a bit of a pain if I do need to ground it, as the cable will have to run across the concrete path to get to the grass that I run over all the time in my chair.. Bummer but thanks, I guess its better to be safe then sorry even though theirs about 1% chance my stuff that I connect to the generator will ever need to use the earth/ground.........

Its amazing, I only wanted to know if I could use surge protectors on a portable generator and I have made more problems for myself.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

is there a ground bolt?
I did not see any thing in the manual!!
American UL listed gens have a bolt marked for chassis ground to a ground stake..

also in the usa green ground is connected to the ground stake.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

yes there is a ground bolt, the manual is pretty useless but I guess thats expected from a £250 generator, its copper wound with a electric start, so its not a totally rubbish gen. But Im guessing its totally rubbish compared to all your guys gens on this forum.

I have put a ring around the bolt connection in the picture.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

well the score card is $310.00 usd on the gen set...
honda gens here in the usa right now
are $1200.00 - $4500.00
or 967.00Ls - 3628.00Ls
so yea you choice of gen is on the low end of the scale...
but. all of the gen connection info holds for all gens...

grounding is super important..
just remember the rule "ground is reference."
so if you do not have reference you do not have a proper connection.

the frame on any generator can be "hot"
this is due to inductance via magnetics or magnetic coupling from the frame steel to the to the rotor or stator.
and or from any wiring laying parallel to the frame..
yea a lot to take in on that!!
it is all the engineering stuff..
so to cancel out this effect you earth ground the chassis.. so the frame reference to earth is as close to zero as it can be. it is a safety thing to eliminate or get as close to zero the % chance of getting a electric shock when you are handling the frame or chassis of the generator.
also check the generator bonding grounds from the generator / engine pack to the frame..
over time these bond grounds can worry and break due to vibration... or you can even have a bad ground from the factory... over crimp or under crimp.. over crimp is where the wire is pinched in two, under crimp is where you do not make the connection and the wire is floating in the terminal...
lol I see this all the time on machine crimped no solder ends on the low end of the scale units.
even on things like welders etc. too!!

treat every chassis like it is "hot" same on a camper etc.
if you do not have a test light.
touch it with the back of your hand.. if you get a bite shut it all off right now!!
and use a proper meter to find the issue..
if you touch it with the palm of your hand you could latch on (full grip) and get electrocuted.
this is super important on DC power... of any voltage..
and ac over a couple of volts..
campers are its own thing for bad "hot skin" I see it all the time on older campers or connected to an old camp ground connection.
they make fancy boxes now with lights on them to test the grounds before connection of the camper.
and yes some of these are gfci now as an inline protection.
if you do not have one yet... get one!! it my just save your life!


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Thanks for the reply "iowagold" much appreciated, I havent notice the frames hot while its been in use, but isnt the ground only used if somethings faulty thats plugged in to the generator? I have been thinking of ways to run a cable so Im not running over in all the time, but the only idea I have is to drill a hole though the concrete and just hope its not full of stones to drive the rod through, because it has to go down 4 foot or something stupid like that.... Theirs no other way to ground it is there? I might send that guy a message now actually to see if it needs grounding..... 

You just automatically think that a portable generator doesn't need grounding because its portable.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

speedy2019 said:


> I havent notice the frames hot while its been in use, but isnt the ground only used if somethings faulty thats plugged in to the generator?


I believe he meant electrically hot, not thermally hot...


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

tabora said:


> I believe he meant electrically hot, not thermally hot...


Ah right, yeah sorry.. Well I haven't had a zap from it yet, but I rarely ever touch the frame when its being use.... If I dont ground it with a cable, I will make sure that I dont touch the frame while its in use. I have sent the guy a email asking if it should be grounded, so I'll see what he comes back with..


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

From what I have read and what you have pictured I think you got a pretty good deal on the 6500 watt generator.
Is that unit 120/240 volts AC?
Or is it 240VAC only?
I am thinking what the heck, run it and enjoy it. 
Then if you have doubts, buy a cheap volt-ohm meter and check the ground lug to a ground rod.
If there is no reading, go with it as it is.
I bet there is no leakage of voltage to the chassis.
Your manual would have surely given instructions if the company that made it required a ground.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

ToolLover said:


> From what I have read and what you have pictured I think you got a pretty good deal on the 6500 watt generator.
> Is that unit 120/240 volts AC?
> Or is it 240VAC only?
> I am thinking what the heck, run it and enjoy it.
> ...


if only it was 6500watts, Its only 2800watts the 6500 is the model and its only 240v... Its my first generator so wasn't really clued up on what I was buying, I just knew I wanted something that produced 240 volts, 50hz, quite powerful but cheap and with a electric start as I can't pull the cords fast enough.

So how do I check it with a volt meter? 1 prong on the ground connector and the other where, as I haven't got a grounding rod? So am I safe if it displays no reading?


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Well, one probe on the grounding bolt and the other probe on the ground rod once you get one.
Good luck, however I seriously doubt you need the ground rod.
I have NO Ground rod connection on my Honda but I have my cable grounded.
I do however have a ground rod connection on my permanently mounted Generac but that is code and lightning protection.
I might note that NG or propane would be far safer if you had a ground for static.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

if you are doing the tie in to a house option with a transfer switch, or interlock kit with the main breaker panel as long as the house system is properly wired you should have ground rod already in that system.

a ground rod at the generator is needed only if you are just running a drop cord in to run a few appliances.
and no other connections to the breaker panel.

and yes lp grounding is a good idea if you have a proper lp system.
code also requires a ground breaker or isolator at the entrance of the metal lp line to the house.
this slows down the erosion in the buried metal line.
on the old systems they used to use plain old copper lp lines from the large lp tank in the yard...
over time that copper line would get pin holes and you would loose the whole tank fill...
and in some cases an explosion or fire.
we have had 6 of these in the 1970's-1990's here where I live.
now with the new city code.. knock on whatever so far no issues in town.
they had one explosion in the rural area in 2019 from a bare copper line..

they are trying to get all of the buried gas runs to be special coated line or non metallic lines now.

our city natural gas now is all plastic on the main trunks, and plastic up to the house.
then a short metal stub up to the meter.
as long as they get locates for the utilities so far no issues.. but they are required to hand dig when close to the utilities in my area.
and require inspections when back filling trenches...


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Its not running the house, only a few lights, tv's/sky, my computer setup, kettle, microwave and maybe 1 or 2 fish tanks,during powercuts and directly plugged in to the generator using extension cables.

I had the reply back from the email today saying... "The generator doesn't need to be grounded as this is optional. If you would like to ground it please feel free. This should not make any difference."


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## lisa-martin (Apr 10, 2020)

Alright so I saw on my flood defender it has a red not grounded light lit up at whatever point I use it on my generator. The green light is as yet lit up and says ensured. I checked the ground wire on my generator and it has a pleasant clean ground. I heard that versatile generators are grounded diversely then a house. Probably my flood defender is assume to channel the force as well. At whatever point I connected it to the divider outlet at my home the ground light was green. So what's the issue? Are flood defenders not powerful on a generator or does it just not perceive the ground?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

pretty scary speed!!
yea never trust any statements from dodgey mfg...
I would report that to the crown over there... they take a dim view on harming the folks over there! 
yes you need a ground at the generator when using drop cords, just like you would at any construction job site.
and yes you can use a gfci as long as it is a water proof unit at the generator.

most modern job site generators now have gfci's on the gen sets now.
rule number one always have the frame of the generator grounded when using a drop cord!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lisa-martin said:


> Alright so I saw on my flood defender it has a red not grounded light lit up at whatever point I use it on my generator. The green light is as yet lit up and says ensured. I checked the ground wire on my generator and it has a pleasant clean ground. I heard that versatile generators are grounded diversely then a house. Probably my flood defender is assume to channel the force as well. At whatever point I connected it to the divider outlet at my home the ground light was green. So what's the issue? Are flood defenders not powerful on a generator or does it just not perceive the ground?


please start a new thread for your question lisa


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## HarryN (Jun 2, 2018)

Correct me if I am completely wrong on something here.

AFAIK, on a typical honda inverter generator (2000 / 3000 series) they are not even ground - neutral bonded.

I have never seen anyone actually ground those portable generators when used at a campground.

Some people have them in RVs and obviously they are not grounded when used that way either.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

HarryN said:


> Correct me if I am completely wrong on something here.
> 
> AFAIK, on a typical honda inverter generator (2000 / 3000 series) they are not even ground - neutral bonded.
> 
> ...


harry n ; you are supposed to ground stake any generator when used on a camper!!
right in most camper as well as generator manuals.
you get induction on the camper skin that can be 20 to 60 volts or more.
and when at the camp ground you also want to make sure you have one of the fancy boxes that tells you if the pedestal and camp ground wiring is right..
other wise you can have hot camper skin!!
we have had that in iowa at the corps of engineer's camp grounds!!
bad camp ground wiring due to the flooding the year before...


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