# The Perfect Storm



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

I live in south Florida and with this Corona virus happening along with hurricane season coming I worry this year could add up to a real nightmare scenario.
The past few years have been to close for comfort extremely close call category 3 - 4 hurricanes just missing us and with global warming these giants now seem to be the new normal it’s just a matter of time till we take a direct hit it would be a complete nightmare to get hit in the middle of this pandemic for one thing all my frozen food supplies would be lost.
Anyways I'm new to generators and trying to get a head of it by buying a one now.
Trying to get some help here sizing things up for what I'll need?

Thinking about getting a DuroMax XP13000EH Generator 



My house has a 4 ton Central AC tank-less water heater along with 1 full size Freezer and 1 full size refrigerator 2 computers a few lights and 2 or 3 ceiling fans
My electric bill says monthly use is 951 kWh if that helps?
First thing I'm trying to figure out is what size propane tank I should consider buying or am I better off just using Gasoline?


----------



## mlonas (Apr 4, 2020)

Do you have natural gas? You can mod the unit with a natural gas regulator and never have to refuel.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

mlonas said:


> Do you have natural gas? You can mod the unit with a natural gas regulator and never have to refuel.


No i wish if i did it would be a no brainer I would just buy a unit that worked on natural gas to begin with


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

duromax site








13,000 Watt Dual Fuel Portable Generator


XP13000EH Specifications Gasoline Peak Wattage 13,000 Running Wattage 10,500 Running Amperage at 120V 87.5 Running Amperage at 240V 43.75 Runtime at 25% Load 17 Runtime at 50% Load 8 Propane Peak Wattage 12,350 Running Wattage 9,975 Running Amperage at 120V 83.13 Running Amperage at 240V 41.56...




www.duromaxpower.com




https://www.duromaxpower.com/produc...00-watt-portable-hybrid-gas-propane-generator
if you do decide to go LP
or gasoline make sure you can store enough fuel for a 4 week run...
gasoline 20 gallons per day min
600 gallons per month... on gasoline
lp might be 8 lbs per hour or 5,376 lbs for the month. or 1265 gallons of lp..
that is a large tank!
if the math on the lp is right...
I use natural gas for the primary fuel for this reason..
so how far in the sticks are you down there? and how close are the natural gas lines to your area?
you might loot at a better fuel injected gen for lower fuel consumption...
and look in to an inverter ac unit as mini split units...
they cool more for less power... they will pay for them selves in 4 years of run time..
and get a couple of small units if it calls for larger units...

that way you can turn on and off the units to share the power better...
look in to a honda eu7000IS genset
Honda EU7000IS Portable Inverter Generator 7000 Surge Watts, 5500 Rated Watts, Electric Start, CARB-Compliant, Model# EU7000IS | Northern Tool





Product: Honda EU7000IS Portable Inverter Generator 7000 Surge Watts, 5500 Rated Watts, Electric Start, CARB-Compliant, Model# EU7000IS


The Honda EU7000IS is a super-quiet, fuel-efficient, long-running portable power solution. Equipped with Honda inverter tec...




www.northerntool.com




northern has free shipping, and some times they have sales on them too!
there is a lp ng kit out now for these gen sets. 500.00
and these make it tri fuel.
i just put one on and it works real good!! and running on NG.
regap the plug to .020 or 20 thousandths in sae and use an iridium ngk plug.
and run 1/2 ng id short hose with 1/2 quick couplers.
and 1 inch ng hard line up to where the gen will be running. at no more that 20 feet from the meter.
the average house can run on 2000 watts.. but add in sump pumps and ac units electric water heaters etc. and that can take a big jump.

do a power survey with proper meters installed..
I have a few pix and part numbers on making a connection system at





NATURAL_GAS_PAGES


NATURAL GAS PAGES



www.poustusa.com




NATURAL_GAS_PAGES 
the setup is a 200 amp panel with meters.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

I don't live out in the sticks but natural gas is not available in my location. In the 50yrs I've live in South Florida we've never had the power out for more then just a couple of days so thats what I'm counting on I'm seeing 100lb LP bottles on ebay for around $150 a piece thinking I'll grab few of those. The Inverter ac unit sound interesting maybe instead just buy 2 portable upright units ?


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Markee said:


> ...I'm seeing 100lb LP bottles on ebay for around $150 a piece thinking I'll grab few of those...


Usually an LP fuel supplier will provide a tank (or tanks) at no charge to insure that you refill with them. I have a free 420lb tank at my house and 2 100lb tanks at camp.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

That might be a good option for me if there willing to work me some kind of deal to rent the tanks just through hurricane season ?


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Markee said:


> I don't live out in the sticks but natural gas is not available in my location. In the 50yrs I've live in South Florida we've never had the power out for more then just a couple of days so thats what I'm counting on I'm seeing 100lb LP bottles on ebay for around $150 a piece thinking I'll grab few of those. The Inverter ac unit sound interesting maybe instead just buy 2 portable upright units ?


if you do the brand new tanks make sure they are refilled correctly the first time...
new tanks have to be filled the right way to make sure they have the proper no air inside the tank..

if you get your brand new tank from the LP fill station guys they take care of this....
just saying something..

not done right it can and will create a lean burn... and can damage the gen...
this is the same for fork trucks etc. any thing with a piston...
stoves and furnace just have a lower btu on the bad mix...

100 lb new tanks are $137 at menards right now... so check at your local LP guys place, and also check at the box store.

yea the central iowa storm 2 years back they were with out power for a month in most areas..
and some places were 3 months that were remote..

natural gas was off for 3 weeks in most of the town..
they now have split up the gas grid!! a good lesson as the hospital now has a dedicated run from the distribution hub.

yea plan plan plan… and then plan some more!!
if you have a pretty good plan... you can always upgrade it as funds allow!!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Markee said:


> That might be a good option for me if there willing to work me some kind of deal to rent the tanks just through hurricane season ?


so do you have LP now for furnace and hot water heat on the property??


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

iowagold said:


> so do you have LP now for furnace and hot water heat on the property??



No I'm not running any gas at all everything here running off electric in So Florida no need for a furnace but can't live without AC at all you will freekin melt here without it. I have a 4 ton central ac unit and the hot water heater is tankless electric but we can live without that everything else is low power except the dryer
I'm seeing the 100lb tanks $114.99 at Walmart at that price i can buy a bunch and can always get Homedepot and Lowes to match there prices. I'm also seeing that Duromax XP1300EH Gas/Propane Generator in stock here locally on sale free delivery for about $1000 think I'm going to get that one then spend like another 1k or so on tanks and electrical stuff to hook it up to the house unless you have any other suggestions?
I don't really have budget to blow 5k or more on a Honda or a whole house Generac type solution


----------



## Gizmo (May 21, 2013)

Until you size a generator for the load you need to support, it’s futile to try to size the fuel demand. Whatever the demand is I would suggest getting an inverter generator as they are able to vary engine speed, hence fuel consumption, depending on the load demand. A 7000 watt generator may not be able to start a 4 ton AC unless the AC unit is variable speed type. Trying to start the compressor, condenser fan and evaporator fan all at once can be quite a starting load! My EU6500is would not start my 2 ton air conditioner. It will start our new variable speed AC but I had already invested in a Generac whole house generator by then!


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

I


Gizmo said:


> Until you size a generator for the load you need to support, it’s futile to try to size the fuel demand. Whatever the demand is I would suggest getting an inverter generator as they are able to vary engine speed, hence fuel consumption, depending on the load demand. A 7000 watt generator may not be able to start a 4 ton AC unless the AC unit is variable speed type. Trying to start the compressor, condenser fan and evaporator fan all at once can be quite a starting load! My EU6500is would not start my 2 ton air conditioner. It will start our new variable speed AC but I had already invested in a Generac whole house generator by then!



I'm still googling reading and stressing over which generator to buy to get the job done without totally breaking the bank on a Generac type. Still thinking for like $1000 on sale right now the Duromax XP1300EH Gas/Propane is a descent option rated to burn approximately 1 gal per hour Propane on half load the specs say each tank should last about 20hrs am I wrong ?
Considering how cheap the 100lb LP tanks are at $114 each just to buy a few extra is not to bad 
Anyone have some other compatibly priced generator solutions that are better on fuel and will also start run my 4ton ac ? I'm sure its not variable speed


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

That DuroMax xp1300 won’t likely start your 4ton A/C without some help.

Look into soft start units. They can reduce the inrush current demands by up to 60% allowing smaller generators to start large motors.


----------



## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

By soft start units I think you mean "Soft start relay capicator" add ons.
They are simple to install and can be found at the local HVAC supplier and are very inexpensive.
Make sure you buy the ones with an American flag in the box.
Other caps do not last too long.
I keep a start cap and a relay cap on hand.
An indication that you need to replace caps is easy to identify.
If your lights blink when the four ton AC unit starts, you need to replace the caps.

Now another note:
By 1300 do you mean 13KW?
I had a 14 KW Generac it was 13 KW on NG and it started my 4 ton unit easily for over 10 years of continued use.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

here is a link on this page for the good soft start unit
HONDA_GENERATOR





HONDA_GENERATOR


HONDA_GENERATOR



www.poustusa.com




the micro air is the way to go..
there are hard start units that help with in rush.. but the micro air units work sooo much better.

the iowa state fair rv bunch swears by them.
and one is required for each ac unit.
but if you have a mini split inverter ac unit these are not needed as they already have them!!


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks for the replies really appreciate it I don't have sht for experience with generators and I'm pretty much on my own here trying to figure out whats best to do without this forum's help
So Thanks again 

That said theirs plenty of reviews and videos out there of people easily starting and running there 4ton Central ac units off the Duromax XP1300 and even some slightly smaller KW units so I don't really think that's going to be the issue? 
That being the case I really don't see the need to spend extra on the Soft start relay capacitor personally I think the money would be better spent on more LP tanks am I wrong ? 

Now as far as the Honda EU 7000IS that unit along with the Soft start relay is like 5x the cost of the Duromax XP1300. 

Can anyone suggest a more compatibly priced equally powered unit to the the Duromax that will get the job done but at the same time give me *better fuel economy ? ?*
The Duromax is quoted about 1lb per hour on propane. 
The Duromax unit is on sale for about $1000 till the 4/15 after then it goes up about $400 so I feel like I'm under some pressure and need to make a decision before then.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I didn’t elaborate earlier... the OP mentioned having an electric on demand hot water heater... that sucks up ALOT of watts. My concern is that youll have Both the AC and water heater operating at the same time. A soft starter in all likely hood will allow for both to operate simultaneously without a devastating drop in voltage. And its a better safe then sorry situation. If you and your family are careful to not use hot water while you operate the AC then the soft starter may not be necessary. 

OP stated being new to generators and load management is a very important component that gets overlooked by people. The duromax1300 is very capable of starting a 4ton but only under the proper conditions. That Generator is a bargain for the rated power and engine size. I expect that the waveform has a relatively high THD but will get the job done.

That generator has a 50amp outlet and I strongly suggest that the proper house connection is installed. 6gauge cable minimum, a 50amp inlet, and atleast a interlock on your panel if not a manual transfer switch. While on the subject have you contacted an electrician to plan your connection?

I appreciate your detication to amassing 100lb propane tanks. 100lb bottles in your warm climate should have no problem providing an adequate amount of fuel volume. Your generator is way to thirsty for BBQ tanks and probably even 30 pounders. 40 Pounders are a minimum requirement. 

I would personally would keep the generator free from gasoline in the interim, but have plenty of gasoline on hand for when your propane runs out. This will eliminate the chance of a gummed up carb right when you need to use the generator. Lastly, keep tabs on your tank levels, there are not fuel gauges on 100lb and smaller tanks. If you run out of fuel under load anything connected will suffer from the event. The in-line pressure gauges are Inadequate, your better off with the stickers that Get attached to the side of tanks that when wet show the actual liquid level.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

amen on the no gasoline in the system.
they have those auto tank switch over valves for rv's that work well on the 100lb tanks with the proper hoses.
and be sure to mount the valve in the proper place.

make sure the city where you are at will let you store the large lp tanks..
ask your lp fill station guy's they should have that information.
there are limits on how many lbs or gallons of fuel stored in town.
and mark the area with the proper reflector decals for the fire guy's too..
chain the tanks to the building or make a tall hitching post for the tanks where they can be chained secure.
that too is a requirement in most areas for tall tanks.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Yeah I really don't need to run the tankless water heater i can live without hot water but can't live without ac. 
I'll be testing things out way before any hurricane hits seeing what the generator can handle. As far as the tanks go I already ran my plan to the city gas guy and he said I'm good to go with 100lb tanks. 
Once I get the thing I'll move on the install phase and most likely get someone to do the install for me 
So before I pull the trigger on this unit no one has a better alternative generator suggestion i should consider thats maybe better on fuel ?


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

The only thing that will improve fuel consumption is a smaller generator.

What size Kw water heater do you have? If you don t require operating your AC and water heater simultaneously then get a better handle on what your actual wattage requirements are and choose a smaller generator that will reduce fuel consumption.

DuroMax generators are a great value but not particularly high quality. It boils down to what you want to spend.


----------



## Coco (Dec 21, 2018)

Markee said:


> I live in south Florida and with this Corona virus happening along with hurricane season coming I worry this year could add up to a real nightmare scenario.
> The past few years have been to close for comfort extremely close call category 3 - 4 hurricanes just missing us and with global warming these giants now seem to be the new normal it’s just a matter of time till we take a direct hit it would be a complete nightmare to get hit in the middle of this pandemic for one thing all my frozen food supplies would be lost.
> Anyways I'm new to generators and trying to get a head of it by buying a one now.
> Trying to get some help here sizing things up for what I'll need?
> ...


Why not get 1 or 2 10,000 BTU window AC's and 'camp out' in living room or bedroom? Would be lot less fuel consumption and maybe a smaller generator could be used.


----------



## Coco (Dec 21, 2018)

Coco said:


> Why not get 1 or 2 10,000 BTU window AC's and 'camp out' in living room or bedroom? Would be lot less fuel consumption and maybe a smaller generator could be used.


https://www.powerequipmentforum.com/attachments/20190731_131250_burst06-1-jpg.7326/ This is my genny. I have 2-10,000BTU ac's, fridge, freezer, TV, computer,lights--everything except water heater. All on natural gas.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

I don't really plan on running the tankless water heater but the unit is pretty massive running off of 3 - 50amp breakers I installed it myself a few years ago and i had to upgrade the main power box which I also did myself. How do I determine the AC's exact usage ? Here's a picture of the label on my air-handler outside unit labels are all weathered off.


----------



## Anthony'sGenServLLC (May 30, 2019)

Concerning your A/C unit, check your Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA). Make sure the generator amperage is higher than the soft-start kit LRA or LRA without the soft-start kit).


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Anthony'sGenServLLC said:


> Concerning your A/C unit, check your Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA). Make sure the generator amperage is higher than the soft-start kit LRA or LRA without the soft-start kit).


Ok so thats the first time I ever heard that term LRA but I'm guessing its the starting amps needed to start the A/C Unit ?
How do I check the LRA Locked Rotor Amps where do I find that info at considering the outside labels are all washed off ?
The unit is a 4ton is all i know

As I've said before from reviews and videos many people are able to run 4ton units off this DuroMax XP13000EH generator and even off less powered so starting it shouldn't be a problem but it would be nice to know the exact starting power i need so maybe I could get away with buying a less powerful more efficient unit


----------



## Anthony'sGenServLLC (May 30, 2019)

The A/C circuit breaker in your main panel can give you somewhat of an idea as well. Notice the unit is a R-22 unit. FYI, they don't make those anymore. Maintain it well.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Anthony'sGenServLLC said:


> The A/C circuit breaker in your main panel can give you somewhat of an idea as well. Notice the unit is a R-22 unit. FYI, they don't make those anymore. Maintain it well.


Unfortunately I don't have it marked in my breaker box I'll have to go through them one by one figure it out but I do have a 240 shutoff right next to the compressor outside 
So you have a generator bizness up in Atlantic Beach Florida I live South Florida 
Got to admit the past few hurricane seasons we been having some pretty scary close calls with massive storms 
seems like category 3 and 4 are like the new normal here


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Remove the electrical access cover, you’ll likely find another sticker there with useful Info. The compressor itself usually has it’s own sticker with the LRA and running amps. I would still look into a soft start regardless. Unless I owned a LARGE standby gen I recommend a soft start on generator power. Especially with your house being 100% electric.

If your hot water heater required 50 amp breakers then operating under generator power is pretty much out of the question.

I was trying to look out for your best interest by calculating for the water heater. If you knew it was way to big of a load that would have saved some effort.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> Remove the electrical access cover, you’ll likely find another sticker there with useful Info. The compressor itself usually has it’s own sticker with the LRA and running amps. I would still look into a soft start regardless. Unless I owned a LARGE standby gen I recommend a soft start on generator power. Especially with your house being 100% electric.
> 
> If your hot water heater required 50 amp breakers then operating under generator power is pretty much out of the question.
> 
> I was trying to look out for your best interest by calculating for the water heater. If you knew it was way to big of a load that would have saved some effort.



When you say remove the electrical access cover what panel do u mean the panel on the A/C or the electrical box panel ?
Thank for trying to look out for my best interests as far as the water heater goes I been saying all along I don't plan of using it with the generator so its really a none issue


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you can always get an lp water heater now that you will have lp on site.
use the lp as backup water heater, just heat when you need the hot water...
some of the modern units have timers now on the gas units.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Started looking at one of these Generac Guardian Series wondering what other things I would i need to get it installed and approximately what it would all cost me up and above the initial cost of the generator done deal ?



https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-Guardian-Series-WIFI-Enabled-13000-Watt-LP-13000-Watt-NG-Standby-Generator/1001280988


----------



## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

If you bought from a generac authorized dealer then, IMO, this would be the best way to go. The big box store might sell you the package in pieces, meaning the generator is one piece, then you need a transfer switch - another piece. Then you need installation - a third piece. This might look like a good deal but it can turn out to be a pita. 
While I don't have numbers for the model you are looking at, my buddy did the 22kw unit, paid $9900 for soup-to-nuts, all from a dealer. They service the unit as well. 
There are so many different types of generator products, so many sizes and prices. Just remember that you get what you pay for. In your situation I sincerely believe you are better off doing it right once. Especially if you plan to keep the house for years. I think you are beginning to see the wisdom and are leaning towards this. 
Good luck.


----------



## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Melson is right and here is an example:
My neighbor lacked any knowledge or electrical experience.
He came to me asking about generators.
I explained the system and what was involved.
He chose to go with a contract licensed Generac dealer.
Once installed he had numerous problems with the new generator.
Generac backed the repairs and eventually the dealer had to remove the actual generator parts.
Generac paid the dealer to do the work and the actual time involved was two months.
It could have been a nightmare for the neighbor, but he chose wisely and he is happy.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Wheres a good place to buy as 120 Gal Propane tank at ?


----------



## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Just buy two 100 lb tanks from Lowes.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

ToolLover said:


> Just buy two 100 lb tanks from Lowes.


I can easily buy the 100lb tanks there selling cheap at Walmart for $114 each but would they really be a good option for a whole home Generac type setup and is there any way to seamlessly share the propane between the smaller 100lb tanks without having to worry about running out all the time ? ?
Just looking into all my options and was thinking maybe one big tank might be a better option? 
There just much harder to find and more costly


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Again, I think you should check with your local LP supplier; you may find that there's no additional cost for them to supply the tank(s). That is the case here in Maine.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

tabora said:


> Again, I think you should check with your local LP supplier; you may find that there's no additional cost for them to supply the tank(s). That is the case here in Maine.


What are you paying up there for your 420lb tank ?


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Markee said:


> What are you paying up there for your 420lb tank?


Tanks are "free"; owned by the energy company. Our most recent propane cost was $2.19 / gallon.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

tabora said:


> Tanks are "free"; owned by the energy company. Our most recent propane cost was $2.19 / gallon.


What energy company do u have up there paying for it ?
Here we just Electric company city gas and the local LP suppliers. I don't think any will supply me a tank free I'm sure the supplier will rent me one then charge like double for the propane to fill it


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Markee said:


> What energy company do u have up there paying for it ?


Just local companies: Dead River Company & Vinal Energy. They offer propane price protection plans, as most energy companies do. We also purchase fuel oil from DRC. 

Wow, looks like propane prices are almost double in Florida what we pay in Maine.

Call some companies around your area... At the least, they should offer a cheap lease plan, maintenance included.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

Yeah I'll make some calls to some of the local LP companies again tomorrow


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I would think lp would be down in price right now with the gasoline so low cost..
1.59 last night here 04/12/2020 in iowa.
hardly any one out!!
I was working on equipment for Monday's crew or I would to not have been out.\I need to see if there is a gas buddy for LP?


----------



## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

The same propane tank 'rental' deal is valid here in Massachusetts as well. The homeowner enters into a contract with a gas supplier where he agrees to buy gas from the supplier. The supplier agrees to provide a tank free of charge. 
This seems to be a common practice. The OP should at least make a phone call before buying from a big box store.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I bought my house with an owned 500gal propane tank. My cost per gallon is $1.84 which is really good for my area. The leased tanks in my neighborhood are like 100 bucks a year for the “fees” and 2.10 to 2.60 a gallon depending on the company and haggling. 

A 18kw and bigger standby gen will need a 120gallon tank minimum.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

here is a good link for propane prices


Residential Propane Weekly Heating Oil and Propane Prices (October - March)


propane prices link
iowa is sitting at 1.133 per gallon! wow!
here is a link for amerigas if they service your area





AmeriGas Propane - Residential & Commercial Propane


AmeriGas Propane provides propane delivery, tank installation, & more for your home or business. Find a location or request a quote.




www.amerigas.com




AmeriGas Propane - Residential & Commercial Propane


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

iowagold said:


> here is a good link for propane prices
> 
> 
> Residential Propane Weekly Heating Oil and Propane Prices (October - March)
> ...



I called around today was quoted around $3.00 a gal from a few LP places with a yearly 420LB (120 GAL) tank rental rental fee around $100 a year with about $1100 to install the tank


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

120 gallons at $3.00 is $360.00 for the first fuel fill


Weekly Florida Propane Residential Price (Dollars per Gallon)


and how far are they running the connection?
is this on a poured concrete pad?
all the details please.
get this in writing.. I do not like any around prices.. this needs to be a quote.
if the prices are right, this makes the first year expensive.
$1560.00 and $130.00 per month if you spread it out..
and the cost per gallon at $13.00 per gallon...
I think I would just buy a 500 gallon tank.. here is a place you could get a tank for $1625.00





500 Gallon Above Ground Propane Tank


500 gallon propane tanks for sale at the best prices from Kleen-Rite. 500 gallon propane tanks are suitable for whole home systems.




www.kleen-ritecorp.com





there is a lot of tank data on that page..
just a tip: the first fill is tricky from any tank vender... they need to be air purged right...
yea they are charging you for the tank... then renting the small 120 gallon tank to you...
price a 500 gallon tank!!

concrete runs up here $65.00 per cu yard delivered and use cattle panel at 15.00 each 4x8 for reinforcement.
7 yards would give you a nice 5 inch thick pad $455.00 concrete $60.00 in cattle panel yea you could have the $1100.00 in pad materials and labor.
then there is the line from the tank too. regulators, fittings, couplings, rubber hose to the gen set. plus any house connections.

hummm...
what is the min tank fill?? and how far do they have to drive to fill it??
most of these places have a truck route... and have a per stop price plus a gallon price.
take a look at the contract!! and see if they have a fixed price for the year.. with role over.
basic gas futures.. lol! or you buy a block of fuel and they store it till you need it deal.

I would look at home heating and water heating with lp while you are at it!!
that could help your min usage per year... as well as using for outdoor gas grill and indoor gas range / oven!!


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

iowagold said:


> 120 gallons at $3.00 is $360.00 for the first fuel fill
> 
> 
> Weekly Florida Propane Residential Price (Dollars per Gallon)
> ...



Heres one of the tank install quotes below I got from a typical local propane company here in south Florida 
Now I'm trying to get some workable itemized generator install quotes from a true Generac factory installer so far I got alot of crazy inflated quotes 
I have a what i feel is a super easy and should be a very inexpensive install below picture you can see the left side 
The garage side of my house is about a 25ft long empty cider block blank wall with nothing the whole length of the wall going back except the the electrical meter and main shut off at the back leaving plenty of length to meet the 10ft 
between the tank and the Generator or any ignition points the ground below is already concrete so just a straight run from tank to generator and the generator in the back right next to the electrical box for super easy hookup ?


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

so are they replacing the crusty disconnect??
you might want to look carefully at the meter socket as well...
and the connected wiring..

wish you were here in Iowa!
easy stuff to do.
am I seeing that right?? $125.00 per hour?
or how far do they have to travel to get there??
I guess the chevy garage now charges $125.00 per hour up here.


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

There local yeah charging $125 I was able to upgrade my electrical panel myself a few yrs ago installed the tankless water heater washer and dryer built the laundry room plumbing and all.
Installing a propane tank should be super easy just need to knowledge to do it right


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Definitely a nice easy space for installing an outdoor rated service disconnect ATS. That will make things easier. And reduce cost and labor.

It might be wise to buy your own 120lb tank and hire a local plumber to hook up to code. Your fuel price will be easily 50cents less per gallon, and you won’t be paying 100 bucks per year. A 120gal tank is about $600 plus freight.

On The subject of propane, do you have any inclination to adding propane appliances like an oven/range or dryer?


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

amen on the other gas appliances..
way cheaper to run on gas..
and makes it better when on gen!!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

so how far away from you is natural gas in your area?


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

NG is not an option here of course city gas was the first place I called and its not available for my particular neighborhood. I might consider upgrading some appliances down the road but that not really a priority most of my appliances are new and pretty energy efficient bought a induction oven last year that uses like almost no power to run the range top part of it 
Anyways I spent the day on the phone talking to Propane and generator companies and a few Generac certified installers explaining **** to me and giving me some ball park quotes most want to sell me recommend the 22000-Watt
quoting me anywhere from 10 to 17k for the complete install 
The company that impressed me the most was this big company called Reliable Power Systems 
Dude said if all goes well as a easy install could get the job done for 10k with 1 above ground 420lb tank and 22kw unit 
Company has alot of good reviews on Google but also has some bad ones its such a big ticket item and contractors here in Florida are really scummy after reading just the bad reviews hard to know who to trust 
I'll be talking to more people tomorrow 
easily get burned with the wrong company


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

got to watch the reviews... a lot of non buyers could be in on the good reviews..
was the 10k just labor or was that including the tank and gen?
I wish you had meters on the current system now...
you could see what the actual run current is for the house..
as well as balance the breaker box for non 240 volt stuff...
I am seeing the gen parts as








Generac Guardian EGD-70432KIT-A ® 22kW Standby Generator System 200A Service Disconnect + AC Shedding w/ Wi-Fi + 4-Inch Hurricane GenPad™ + Battery


The Generac Guardian® 22kW Standby Generator System (200A Service Disconnect + AC Shedding) w/ Wi-Fi + 4-Inch Hurricane GenPad™ + Battery EGD-70432KIT-A has been discontinued. Check out Expert's recommended alternatives for another top air-cooled.




www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com




Generac Guardian EGD-70432KIT-A ® 22kW Standby Generator System 200A Service Disconnect + AC Shedding w/ Wi-Fi + 4-Inch Hurricane GenPad™ + Battery
that is a gen kit with pad, battery, good 200 amp ats with wifi, 
the max lp is 4 gallons per hour at full load and 2.5 gallons at 1/2 load
so that tank is 96 gallons so 24 hours run time at max load and 38.4 at 1/2 load...


https://eastern.com/wp-content/uploads/propane_tank_options.pdf


https://eastern.com/wp-content/uploads/propane_tank_options.pdf

I see a tank on ebay $1200.00 guam only








Propane Tank 420# <!!READ DESCRIPTION!!> ASME 120GAL Tank Vacuum Pre-Purged | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Propane Tank 420# <!!READ DESCRIPTION!!> ASME 120GAL Tank Vacuum Pre-Purged at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com




Propane Tank 420# ASME 120 GALLON Tank Vacuum Pre-Purged | eBay

so 2 weeks if hurricane min works out to 1,344 gallons at rated output on lp
or 840 gallons at 1/2 load...
so what is the idle consumption on these lp generac gen sets or the min per hour??
that is the big question!!
the unit that I had the link from had wifi… you might be able to put it in sleep mode...

or think on a 2 generator system... a small inverter generator just for the lights and electronics..
then a larger unit that could power the air con, stove, water heater etc..
you would be better off with the stove and water heater to burn the lp direct on those..
you could do that with an outdoor lp grill and range top on the back patio as well as an demand lp hot water heater that is outdoor...
just a thought...

and power walls are getting cheaper by the day... watch the rules for solar in your area..
there are some tricky rules on grid tie solar in florida.. no solar power when the grid is down is one of them!!
at least on some electric utilities down there.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you could start with one tank and make sure you have room for at least maybe 4 more.


----------



## HarryN (Jun 2, 2018)

It might be worth considering some small changes to your loads before investing in such a massive generator.

If you will have on site propane, then consider to use it with a tank type hot water heater - all of the time. That will dramatically reduce your loads. Worst case have it installed in series with your existing heater so that you can turn it on in case of an event.

It doesn't take a very large solar / battery system to run the refrigerators and freezers. 2 kW inverter and 1 kW of solar should do it. That could potentially be done by you and at least the garage one could be run 100% of the time.

Now you are down to just needing a generator to operate the air conditioning during the day, or the dryer when that is required.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol or just get an lp fridge freezer!!
the amish here in iowa do those!!
they have an lp motor running the chiller compressor.
thermoking like they use on simi trailers..
they do walk in freezers and walk in fridge rooms.
pretty cool idea!!
the same bunch has wind turbine air compressors!!
cool for the wood shop!! all pneumatic!! all by wind!!
even dewalt table saws on air power!!


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

This whole project is just getting to complicated and expensive starting to feel paralyzed into not knowing what to do 
more quotes today all around 15k starting to think back about just getting a portable generator and some propane takes and calling it a day to stressful with hurricane season coming in and this whole nightmare virus. Getting a direct hit by a hurricane in the middle of this virus could a nightmare beyond belief the thought of it stress's me 
Heres a different that's slipping into the back of my mind rent a B&B somewhere away from here for a few months ride out hurricane there in a safe place ?


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I like the Iowa b and b !! lol!! way off shore!!
we do get storms here.. but if you are south east iowa less chance of the BIG storm.
make sure you have good insurance for florida home and call it a day!!
you can buy a lot of camping gear and a gas grill for less than 1 k!
the heat and humidity down there would kill me!!
it is bad enough here in iowa the last few summers...
lol it is snowing here right now!! no kidding!! 17th april 2020 and snow in south Iowa!! WOW!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

do a small 2200i honda and do an extended run fuel tank.
at least have lights for the small storms that take out power for a few hours.
they are 1050.00
I have links for them and all the connection parts at





HONDA_GENERATOR


HONDA_GENERATOR



www.poustusa.com




or see the honda forum








main groups.io Group


*Welcome to the entrance admin only posting area announcement pages for Honda EU series generator forum, This is our start pages!! note you need membership to each sub group to read or post! select the section below or on the left your sub group for your generator type or model or trouble...




hondagenerator.groups.io


----------



## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Markee said:


> This whole project is just getting to complicated and expensive starting to feel paralyzed into not knowing what to do more quotes today all around 15k...


Boy, sure sounds like you're getting ripped off, but that seems to be the way with contractors in Florida based on my experiences with family members' properties down there. 
Up here, I purchased a Generac 22Kw unit with transfer switch for about $4400 for my parent's condo which my son and I set in place, had the LP company deliver and hook up the free tank, paid the electrician just a few hundred $ to install the wiring, and that was that. Total startup cost was around $5K including the propane. When I later sold the condo, I would have had to return the tank and regulator, but the purchaser agreed to take over the service. It's been almost 8 years since my Dad died, so I don't have all the details anymore.


----------



## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I like the idea of large standby generators, but the fuel consumption is just to crazy. Then on top of that you have ONE possible fuel source.

I seriously considered a 13-14kw standby but I ended up shooting for a more versatile setup. Low consumption, multiple fuels, redundant power sources.

If you want to stick with a portable generator. Maybe consider having your generator connectivity system installed first. Definitely 50amp. Then rent a couple generators of different sizes and see how many KWs can fulfill your power requirements without sucking down fuel like it’s going out of style. 

I personally like having an interlock, energizing my whole panel, and doing My own load management.

Not sure of your family situation, but I taught my wife and nearby father in law how to operate my generator, and switch power from grid to gen power with color coded breakers.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

and it is always nice to have typed laminated instructions with the panel and the generator as well.
step by step.
and you can do color coded numbered dot stickers.


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

office max , office depot etc does the laminations..


----------



## Markee (Apr 6, 2020)

tabora said:


> Boy, sure sounds like you're getting ripped off, but that seems to be the way with contractors in Florida based on my experiences with family members' properties down there.
> Up here, I purchased a Generac 22Kw unit with transfer switch for about $4400 for my parent's condo which my son and I set in place, had the LP company deliver and hook up the free tank, paid the electrician just a few hundred $ to install the wiring, and that was that. Total startup cost was around $5K including the propane. When I later sold the condo, I would have had to return the tank and regulator, but the purchaser agreed to take over the service. It's been almost 8 years since my Dad died, so I don't have all the details anymore.


I'm originally from NY and consider myself a fairly street smart kind of guy plus I also have a small Fire Extinguisher service bizness for like over 30yrs and I deal with the public all day but contractors and handy men down here are at a whole new level when it comes to scamming I've been burned before pretty bad more then once and this generator install feels like the perfect recipe for getting burned again. That being said I wish I could just buy the unit and save myself like 10k doing smost or some of the install myself with my son. I'm going to try and look into that more going forward any advice from here would be great with out it I don't thing I can do it . Alot of the problem piecing a project like this together lie with pulling the permits there pretty complexed from what little I understand like you have to show the generator load can handle your full home load understanding of load management , property survey, engineering elevation of the unit has to be on a hurricane rated pad and bunch of stuff I know nothing about but I've watch a few Generac install videos and placing the unit looks pretty easy then finding a reasonable electrician hook it up should be possible. So far I haven't found any LP propane company that does the tank install free specially for a generator when they know your not going to be buying gas on the regular they want some $$ to do the install here below i attach a few LP tank estates one a rental the other is to buy the tank was quoted like 6k to install underground recommended 500lb tank


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

wow!
yea glad I am here in iowa!! lol!!
down there where you are they give contractors a bad name!!

I work on a different biz model up here than the rest of the world..
my clients pay for the materials direct... no mark up and the materials warranty is in their name!!
cool concept!!
yea permits are tricky at best in some places..
we are still on the good old boy network here... a couple of phone calls less than 100 bucks.
and you are set..
unless you are building a whole house or new building..
it all depends on the relation ship the contractors have with the city inspection bunch.

we are still in an area where a hand shake and a smile is all you need..
you know the "good old boy network" lol!

and it never fails to help your project along when you help others in need too!!


----------



## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

wonder why there is no natural gas in your area...
most townships love the city gas...
as I scratch my head....
sooo much cheaper on NG...


----------

