# Shop/Temporary living generator selection - help!



## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

I can find dual-fuel (LP, gasoline) generators, quiet generators, inverter-generators (pure sine wave) ... but not all together. Perhaps 'something' between the generator and the building to take 'standard chunky wave' generator output that converts it to clean sine wave? In any case, we're building a shop and will live in it while the house is built, so need to power washer/drier, small microwave, sensitive electronics. Shop heat is propane, so it's tempting to use propane for the generator but gasoline is OK if I have to. We will need the generator for 1 to 3 months or until regular utility power gets hooked up, whichever comes sooner. I want the generator as a long-term back-up for the house and shop (using break-before-make transfer switches). Here's what we need ... welcome to all suggestions:


6000+ watts running (clothes drier - OK to run while most other items turned off)
Pure clean sine wave power
LP or gasoline
Prefer quiet - the quieter the better - OK if this adds a little cost

Comments? Brands or websites to look at?

Thanks all,
Brian


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

What kind of budget are you looking at? That will help narrow it down.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I have the Honda EU7000is and I love it. I recently added a tri-fuel kit on it. Expensive, but quietest in it's size class.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Another vote for the EU7000is, better yet two with a parallel kit. Extremely quiet and clean power.


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

Budget? I can grudgingly pay the $5k+ for the Honda above … didn’t know about the tri-fuel kit … does it allow LP? Running on LP can overheat generators that aren’t designed for it.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

IdahoBrian said:


> Budget? I can grudgingly pay the $5k+ for the Honda above … didn’t know about the tri-fuel kit … does it allow LP? Running on LP can overheat generators that aren’t designed for it.


If you have the coin, the Honda is the only way to fly. You do have other options if you want to spend less, although it won't be a Honda.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Some things to consider in addition to the OP's list - 

First and foremost - this generator set up would qualify as "prime use" as that is the OP's sole power. That changes the game enormously as all the "portable" generators, and even home standby generators, are not considered "prime use". 

A "prime use" generator will have liquid cooling, pressurized oil, and likely fuel injection in more modern units. Think the difference between a car engine and a lawnmower engine. What is designed to run at a more continuous rate? The car engine. Why? Liquid cooling, pressurized oil, and fuel injection. However, that does NOT mean "maintenance free". Maintenance is imperative. You change the oil in your car engine, right? Same with a generator. If your generator is running continuous then those maintenance intervals are going to hit a heck of a lot sooner than if you run it only for standby/emergency power. 

So with that having been said I would HIGHLY recommend the OP think about what he is doing and the service he is putting the generator in to as to what to get. Cheap here is not the answer. Cheap will get you by in a pinch, cheap will not give you long term power!! 

For as many people that love their EU7000 generators, I would err on the side of caution with them. Yes, they are a fantastic generator in their class. However, that class is NOT continuous prime use. Therein lies the conundrum. 

There are things you can do to prolong the life of a generator. The number 1 thing is maintenance and staying on top of that to a T. That means having long term maintenance items in stock in quantities that will last for a long period of time - oil, filters, spark plugs, etc. Beyond that you need to have a service manual available for the unit as well as the knowledge to understand it in order to troubleshoot and repair the non-maintenance items (think voltage regulation here for example, among any number of other things). 

If you keep your anticipated load to 50-70% of the running wattage of the generator you will be a lot better off. In the case of using the generator as prime power then I would stay at the lower end of that range - the 50%. So for a 6kw anticipated load then get a generator that will run 12kw running. This will put you in the ~14kw starting wattage class generator. This way you are never really taxing the generator and it will last a lot longer. The harder you drive the alternators in them the higher the temp. The higher the temp and the longer it is up there the shorter the lifespan is. 

That gets in to a whole other scenario related to how you package your generator. You mention wanting it "quiet". You could build an enclosure/out building to put the generator inside of and insulate it to sound proof it. This is what I would do if that was going to be my power solution. However - you must ventilate it in order to keep the temperature in the insulated building from getting too hot. If you run the engine and alternator too hot it will kill either one, or both, a lot sooner. 

All of the above aside - for the amount of run time that you are going to be putting the generator under for up to 3 months is going to be ENORMOUS. What kind of fuel are you going to need to keep the generator running for that period of time? What maintenance are you going to need to do? And I am not even talking about running the generator continuous. For example - if you only run the generator for 8 hours a day at 3 months (30 days/month lets say) that will be 720 hours. With oil changes every 200 hours plus break in that is going to be 4 oil changes. If you run 16 hours a day (daytime hours, off at night) double that - 1440hrs and 8 oil changes. If you burn, lets say. 3/4gal/hr from an EU7000 generator, on average, at 1440hrs that is going to be 1,080 gallons of gas. Or, for 3 days of gas you need 54 gallons, 1 week of gas you need 126 gallons. Can you manage that? Lets look at fuel prices. If you need 1080 gallons to get you through the 3 month period and the average gas price is $3.50/gal that is $3780. Have you factored that in to your budget? What if the generator takes a complete dump and you need to replace it because your service center that you find that is capable of repairing it can't fix it for a week and a half? What are you going to have to power your temporary living scenario? A 2nd generator. Is that in the budget also?

Or - you could bite the bullet and look in to a legitimate Prime Use generator that is going to be reliable enough to get you through that period of time - of course with proper maintenance as well.

A major point to keep in mind is a generator is not a perpetual piece of equipment that will last for ever - none of them will. They are machines. At some point something will break, wear out, or otherwise not work properly and that will require repairing - including a complete tear down and rebuild of the unit. The portable class of generators you are looking in to are NOT designed for anything close to prime use so you are already shooting yourself in the foot there. Now, there are things you can do to prolong the life of a generator - but you need to understand what those details are (operating conditions, keeping the duty cycle down, temperature control, proper oil, checking valves/clearances, proper break in, oil additives, fuel additives, etc, etc). You can give yourself an edge over what should be expected lifespan - but you are still playing with a sub-par entry piece of equipment for the task at hand. Do you want to take that gamble on your sole power source?

You may want to look in to alternative energy - solar and wind power, specifically. You can get large 300-350w panels for about $50/panel. You can find them in auctions by the pallet at those prices (at least you could). You can make your own wind turbines that can produce 8-10kw in a stiff wind. Get you a couple of those wind turbines up and 20x 300w solar panels and you may have a boat load of power. Just do your math on the consumed kwh (consumption over time - use the 24 hour mark to start with, this isn't peak power - but how much overall electricity you consume for a period of time like what the electric company likely bills you based off). If you think through the challenge there are ways to do it. You need to have 2 things - large battery storage and enough power generation at planned low generation periods to maintain your consumption. That will mean that in peak times you will have enormous surplus of power, yes, but if you don't plan for enough power when production stinks you are shooting yourself in the foot. So plan for the low periods and when production is better - all the better. Then in those peak production times run your clothes dryer to soak up some of that excess power  And a water pump to push water in to an elevated storage tank. And fire up your electric skillets. But when the production is way down - hunker down and trim down to the essentials on power usage. If production disappears for a few days and you're out of juice - then fire up your generator as a backup. Run your loads and charge your battery bank for a bit. Hopefully production returns. If you plan your system smartly then you shouldn't run your batteries dead and not have to use the generator, but always have a backup plan.

For what its' worth - there are split phase power inverters that produce clean power up to 18kw running wattage (they claim 3x that for starting loads, but I wouldn't plan to that amount, not by a long shot). Look up Signieer inverters. They had a 15kw for a couple years then upgraded the line earlier this year with an 18kw. They also have a smaller 6kw that is in a different class (lower input voltage). 

As to batteries - salvaged Tesla car batteries are quite economical for lithium high kwh storage. There isn't a big demand for used tesla batteries - insurance companies and warranties will replace with new, not used, so that puts a lot of good used batteries out on the market for alternative uses - like alternative energy battery banks.

Good luck with it!


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

If you get a prime generator you're looking at big bucks and higher fuel use. While the waveforms on those units are probably fine for most backup situations, they are not as good as the pure sine waves that you get with the inverter units. I looked carefully at whole house units and would only consider a Cummins RS25, but that's over $20k including installation in my area which is why I opted for the Honda. We don't lose power very often.

The US Carb MotorSnorkel.com MSK7000 kit for the EU7000is works with propane, natural gas and gasoline. You could always get two and parallel them, running both when you need a lot of power and alternate between them to spread out the run time and maintenance when you don't need all of the wattage.

I'm actually considering getting a second EU7000is as a backup as well as potentially running both in parallel for my 4 ton HVAC unit. Just ordered the Micro-Air EasyStart 368 to lower the starting amps on my condensing unit, but I don't think I want to try to run it on a single EU7000is.

This guy is running two in parallel:





This guy installed the same MotorSnorkel tri-fuel kit that I have on mine:


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

Lots of good info… I appreciate all the thought and effort !

The 6kw is startup of the drier … continuous normal running would be more like 2500w.

We live 9+ hours from the build site and much else to do. No time for an optimal off-grid design and installation.

I do already have a cheaper backup should the Honda 7000 fail. We have money for the gas or propane. We can afford emergency generator replacement… if nothing else, we can live in a local hotel at $3k per month until permanent utility power is installed. It might even be cheaper that way but then again, you won’t have a generator when you’re done.

PLEASE VERIFY… THE HONDA 7000 WILL NOT OVERHEAT WHEN RUN CONTINUOUSLY ON PROPANE?

Again, thank you!


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Anecdotal, but see post #11 in this thread where someone has been running theirs on propane for the past 500 hours with no issues:




__





Honda EU7000is Propane Conversion?


Anybody here converted an EU7000is to propane or LNG? Or, do you know of anyone who has? Any/all tips or help are greatly appreciated. - - - I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone. [email protected]



www.smokstak.com





There are a lot of duel fuel generators on the market that use both gasoline and propane, with engines similar to (but not necessarily as reliable as) the GX390 used on the Honda. I don't think you need to worry about it since gasoline has a higher BTU energy density compared to propane, so the propane combustion should be associated with less heat and it burns cleaner so there will be less carbon buildup.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

IdahoBrian said:


> The 6kw is startup of the drier … continuous normal running would be more like 2500w.


What I would recommend on that wattage number, speaking in terms of "portable generators":

Get you a ~4000w class inverter generator. A couple examples:








4,500 Watt Dual Fuel Portable Inverter Generator w/ CO Alert


XP4500iH Specifications Gasoline Peak Wattage 4,500 Running Wattage 3,600 Running Amperage at 120V 30 Runtime at 25% Load 16 Runtime at 50% Load 8 Propane Peak Wattage 4,275 Running Wattage 3,420 Running Amperage at 120V 28.5 Runtime at 25% Load 19 Runtime at 50% Load 11 Engine & Emission...




www.duromaxpower.com





Don't miss the Powerhorse in the link below (no preview loaded like the other 2 examples):


https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200888192_200888192








__





4500-Watt Dual Fuel Inverter - Champion Power Equipment


Powering Your Life




www.championpowerequipment.com





The Champion and DuroMax both are propane capable out of the gate. 

Those all have 120v-only output, mind you. They are not 240v/split phase 120 capable. If all you need to run is 120v loads most of the time then this will suit fine. I do the same thing with 2 of my generators - I have a 120v only adapter that feeds a split-phase power distribution set up. It feeds both hot legs of the circuits with the 1 hot from the 120v source. Of course, you can't run any 240v device this way but to all the 120v split phase circuits - they don't care if they are paralleled or split its all 60hz 120v no matter how you slice it. 

When you need to run more power for what ever loads, like the dryer (if you deem that is a necessary load - might try stringing up a clothesline if you have a roof up and where you can let clothes dry without tree sap falling and birds pooping on them) you can fire up a larger generator just for that period of time. At this point you could get by with a rotary generator at significant cost savings over an inverter. And since the larger generator is only running for a short period of time for the heavy loading you are making adequate use of your fuel for that time*. 

*There is a minimum wattage a generator will put out before the fuel consumption goes up. Considering rotary generators generally run at 3600 RPM, some 1800 but fewer and larger units generally - the engine is running at full speed if it has a load or not. The engine eats fuel to get to that 3600 RPM. As the load gets heavier and heavier the throttle opens to get more power from the engine. The loading point at which the throttle opens is your minimum wattage. That will be significantly higher for a rotary vs an inverter of the same wattage class - because the rotary has to maintain 3600 RPM. The inverter can idle all the way down.

Case in point to the above - my room AC will draw 7-8 amps (around 900 watts) and once it is running (past the start up load) the little Honda EU2200i generator will run almost all the way down at idle. Think of the fuel savings vs a comparable rotary mid-2000w generator running at 3600 RPM - significant savings. 

If you can get your usual load (the 2500w you estimate) to fall in that "minimum wattage" range you will get the most mileage out of your fuel. What you don't want is the "minimum wattage" to be higher than your usual consumption - because you are wasting power in the higher fuel consumption than the electrical power that fuel that is being burned is providing.

That is where the ~4000w class generators is the "sweet spot" I think for this type of power set up. The little EU2200i I have still does a real nice job, but it hits its limits pretty quick when looking at whole house power (2 refrigerators, lights, fans at a minimum). A ~4000w class inverter would eliminate limits unless we throw in air conditioning. And we can run the furnace on that too (heating is gas, furnace fan = able to circulate air in the whole house) in addition to all our essentials and electronics.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Another thing to consider is "extended run". The built-in tanks of portable generators will get you around 4-15 hours run time, depending on the unit and load. Generators that have fuel pumps are able to be "extended" with an external tank. 

Here is my set up this past weekend. The EU2200 was the primary generator (hooked up and running in the picture). The other one we ran when loads were heavy (way overkill but I have it so we used it). They both have fuel pumps. The EU2200i uses a fuel cap that has a threaded port on it. I have many outboard boat motors also and have converted all my small engines (outboards and generators) to use the Johnson/Evinrude 2-prong fuel fittings. That way I can use all the same tanks and hoses for everything. That is also what you see here. The tank is a 12 gallon boat tank. I also have 6 gallon tanks all plumbed the same way. Easy peasy. The fuel cap on the EU2200i was about $15 from Ebay. With the EU2200 burning about .15 gal/hr that 12gal tank is about 80 hours of run time. 

The yellow pigtail between the EU2200i and large round twist lock is 12g wire that feeds both L1 and L2 on an L14-30R. That is how I feed split phase with a single 120v source. It worked fantastic all weekend.










If you get a generator that does not have a fuel pump on it - a lot of them do not (they are gravity fed from a top mounted tank to a float/needle valve in a carb to control fuel on/off) you can add a vacuum fuel pump. You need a vacuum line to run the pump. An overhead valve cover can be a great place to get this - however, you have to drill the OHV cover in an area that bypasses the baffle. The breather tube that connects from the OHV cover to the air filter housing on a lot of designs has a baffle that will prevent the engine's pulsing from going both directions. You need that bidirectional pulsing to work your fuel pump = you need to drill and tap the OHV cover away from that baffle or you will be SOL.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

IdahoBrian said:


> Lots of good info… I appreciate all the thought and effort !
> 
> The 6kw is startup of the drier … continuous normal running would be more like 2500w.
> 
> ...


My EU7000 runs great on propane. I have a 500gal buried tank. Same USCarb snorkel kit. Eco mode functions normally and starts up easy. Iridium sparkplug is highly recommended.I run primarily gasoline and Switching between fuels is very simple.

The eu7000 is designed to truely operate at its 5500w rating. Propane burns cleaner and cooler then gasoline when adjusted properly. Propane and NG burn hotter when the mixture is to rich Unlike gasoline which is the opposite. UScarbs kit has a adjustable mixture screw and will require you to set the mixture properly. It’s a simple adjustment…

Genconnex has a Dedicated propane conversion kit that replaces the factory fuel tank and doesnt require any adjustments. 1 optional fuel jet exists and is rarely needed.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Being a majority of one here when it comes to the need for "clean pure sine wave power," are you sure you need it? Even if you ultimately get really sophisticated frig and furnace in your new home, you need to satisfy power needs in the interim. Consider some alternatives, e.g. Get a propane clothes dryer, uses minimal electricity and can move to your new house. That change will save you major $$ in years to come. I'd get an open frame dual fuel generator (or two) for the interim. MIcrowave would then be your biggest power consumer, if you have a very sophisticated one, pick up a cheapie for now. "Sensitive Electronics," I've gotten along very well with open frame relatively high THD generators for over 20 years powering everything two desktops, , flat screen tv's, laptops, internet modem, charging cell phones, frig and freezer. In an outage the generator is run about 12 hours per day, keeps cold things happy, let's everyone connect and life goes on. Are you planning on running a generator 24/7? Changing oil every other day. Small or portable generators aren't designed nor will they last in constant duty service. Use "disposable" or less costly units and get the Honda or whatever when you're in the new house.

6,000watts+ dryer, so 9,000 Watts+ which would translate to 10-12KW generator which is a lot of fuel. 

When we built our house twenty years ago, carefully planned, budgeted, everything was covered. HAH, lot's of gotcha's pop up. e.g. Had a hard money quote for the septic system, down payment, all was good, UNTIL the state changed the rules and suddenly another $3,000 was needed. 

All I'm suggesting is a point of departure to evaluate the course you're currently on.

Good luck,


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I found this to be one of the best EU7000is video reviews available:


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

You guys bring up a good point. I already own a cheap generator w/240 available that could be fired up when running an electric range or the clothes drier. Why not do that, then use a pure sine wave, but smaller, generator for the computer, TV, and associated electronics (and LED general lighting)? I'd love to have the $5k Honda 7000 series generator, but can probably get by with something a lot smaller for most of our uses (other than high-current stuff like the drier and range). Long term, I'd love to have the 7000, but would prefer to finish building the shop and house and let the dust settle before making any larger-than absolutely required expenditures. All the builders are refusing to quote cost per square foot and all work is being done on a time and materials basis, only, due to the high lumber and construction materials prices ... the risk is all mine. I think we're set well enough either way, financially, but I'm counting pennies until the house is done anyway ... 

This one is half the price of the series 7000 one ... and if I'm careful on lighting etc, would be enough for entertainment and computer (etc):

Honda EU3000iS Super Quiet Inverter Generator | Honda Generators


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

IdahoBrian said:


> You guys bring up a good point. I already own a cheap generator w/240 available that could be fired up when running an electric range or the clothes drier. Why not do that, then use a pure sine wave, but smaller, generator for the computer, TV, and associated electronics (and LED general lighting)? I'd love to have the $5k Honda 7000 series generator, but can probably get by with something a lot smaller for most of our uses (other than high-current stuff like the drier and range). Long term, I'd love to have the 7000, but would prefer to finish building the shop and house and let the dust settle before making any larger-than absolutely required expenditures. All the builders are refusing to quote cost per square foot and all work is being done on a time and materials basis, only, due to the high lumber and construction materials prices ... the risk is all mine. I think we're set well enough either way, financially, but I'm counting pennies until the house is done anyway ...
> 
> This one is half the price of the series 7000 one ... and if I'm careful on lighting etc, would be enough for entertainment and computer (etc):
> 
> Honda EU3000iS Super Quiet Inverter Generator | Honda Generators


You might be better off with two EU2200is in parallel.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Yep, the Honda 3000 will be a good choice, except of course no 240v. But once your project is done and you’ve counted your remaining funds you can then decide to purchase or not the 7000. The Honda 3000 will have great residual value that could be put towards the purchase of the 7000. Dutchy


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

Thanks again everyone 

I'm going to look into the exact requirements of the exact drier and other items that we own before making a decision. Seems like the most cost-effective solution might be the combo of 2 generators, the second fired up just for the higher current items ... I really appreciate all the brain ammo here and all the help from everyone...


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

As to the idea of paralleling 2x EU2200's - 

That will get you higher power output than 1x EU3000, yes. However, you are going to be running 2 engines to do so. Go back to an earlier point I made:



FlyFisher said:


> *There is a minimum wattage a generator will put out before the fuel consumption goes up. Considering rotary generators generally run at 3600 RPM, some 1800 but fewer and larger units generally - the engine is running at full speed if it has a load or not. The engine eats fuel to get to that 3600 RPM. As the load gets heavier and heavier the throttle opens to get more power from the engine. The loading point at which the throttle opens is your minimum wattage. That will be significantly higher for a rotary vs an inverter of the same wattage class - because the rotary has to maintain 3600 RPM. The inverter can idle all the way down.
> 
> Case in point to the above - my room AC will draw 7-8 amps (around 900 watts) and once it is running (past the start up load) the little Honda EU2200i generator will run almost all the way down at idle. Think of the fuel savings vs a comparable rotary mid-2000w generator running at 3600 RPM - significant savings.
> 
> If you can get your usual load (the 2500w you estimate) to fall in that "minimum wattage" range you will get the most mileage out of your fuel. What you don't want is the "minimum wattage" to be higher than your usual consumption - because you are wasting power in the higher fuel consumption than the electrical power that fuel that is being burned is providing.


As soon as you tack on the 2nd EU2200 you take that minimum fuel consumption and double it. 

That is where a single engine with higher power (like the ~4000w class generator I brought up in that thread) is a winner - you get the power under 1 engine and less fuel consumption. 

Now, in my case I have an EU2200 already so for light power (and truth be told for light power the EU2200 is still too big as I rarely have it come off of idle - only for the start up load for something like a circular saw, though my shop vac at 9-10 amps is the only load I have run "portable" that will hold the throttle off idle). Maybe an EU1000 and a ~4000w class unit would be a better pair - it would run the EU1000 in to its mid-range of power and at idle would consume less fuel than the EU2200. Then for the heavier power fire up the ~4000w class. 

I will agree with those that say there is more flexibility with the 2x EU2200's. You can rotate them to keep hour down on a single unit etc etc. So there is that benefit. 

Take the DuroMax and Champion ~4000w units I posted earlier - they are around $1000. I don't see anyone that sells the DuroMax yet (generatorbible.com has a good review of it though: DuroMax XP4500iH 4500W Dual Fuel Inverter Generator: Spec Review) but the one down a hair over 3kw is close to $800. The Champion unit is $897 on Amazon. At that price - get you a couple of them. One to run and a spare, or alternate them. They are all parallel capable, also, so you could run them both together for more power. However, at ~4000w already I don't think you would ever have to.

Getting back to the minimum wattage I mentioned - one thing you could do is use a charger off the generator to charge a battery bank then use a power inverter at times. That way you aren't running the generator at all, and the times you are running the generator you have a load on it going to the batteries to charge them - so you are always taking more advantage of that minimum wattage and putting it somewhere where you can use it - later - and not blowing the gas totally up in smoke. If your charger can pull enough current to get the throttle off of idle you're in good shape. Though, getting a 12v battery charger to pull 7-8 amps would be a pretty beefy charger. Without any loss and conversion inefficiency factored in - 8 amps is 960 watts. Going back the other way to 12v, lets use 13.8 nominal voltage - that is almost 70 amps of charge current*. Again, minus losses, charger consumption, and inefficiencies in the power conversion. 

*Wrap your mind around that for a second. 960 watts or so is close to idle on the EU2200. If you aren't drawing that you are "wasting" fuel. If your fridge is the only thing running all night and when the compressor isn't running it draws 10 watts the other 970 watts are going up in smoke until the compressor kicks on. 

I'll have to mess with the EU2200 some and see exactly at what point the RPM's ramp up. I put a meter on it that shows hours and RPM, but the RPM reading is way wrong (tried to calibrate it with the wire wraps but it just doesn't get very accurate). What it would show, though, is when there is a change, though, and I can meter the electrical draw accurately.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup honda for sure!
I vote the eu2200i, it is a bit quieter than the eu1000i.
yea i used to run the eu1000i gen....
the 2200i is way quieter for us here.
and there are extended run gasoline systems pm for details on that.
then use the eu7000is for when you need the 240 vac power.

I have a para system so i can run 4 of the eu2200is gens if needed.
and tri fuel is the way to go for sure!
pm if you need connection details or one on one help!


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

@FlyFisher ... Good points. I'm considering shutting down generator(s) at night and just commit to not opening our chest freezer or fridge until morning when we fire up the 'daily use' generator (likely the 2200 or 3000???). I think I'll run SO cable from the range and the drier to the back-up (cheap) generator for when they get used. For now, however, my head's full of ideas ... and we already own the appliances, so can go find out exact requirements before final generator decisions. Gonna be out of town for a week+, so I'll figure it out when we get back ... Gotta keep in mind, too, that our propane won't even be installed until 9/21/2021... the propane idea may go back burner (pardon the pun) and be more of a long-term solution for back-up power, and be stuck with using gasoline for the first couple of months or so ... We're also looking into cabin rentals ... we know of sum that have all utilities. Gotta check prices though ... home or apartment rentals in the area look like beat-up drug houses, want $1500+/mo, and a 12-mo lease ... too much inward migration of people ... gouging is the rule on property rentals right now. This is one of the reasons we're trying to figure out the 'live in the shop' concept.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

oh yea one other thing on LP
check into the agreement with the LP guys on buying a set quantity at the lower price (may june july)
at least in our area you can buy let say 1000 gallons at today's market price.
and they will deliver when you run out or are running low.
cool concept as you can play the markets!
buy low and use when it is high!

also make sure to install an LP filter on the main LP line just before the shop.
the LP guys can help on that!
that will help keep any trash out of your jets (orifice)

and look in to LP lights!
the amish folks here use those as well as LP chillers like they use for simi trucks for air con and fridge freezer.
i need to take some pix of the LP amish setups!
pretty cool concept!


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

@iowagold ... thanks! I'd be very interested in seeing the Amish setups too. I had forgotten that they have LP refrigerators in RVs etc. Too bad we don't live a little closer so I could make some of this into more of a project instead of having to have instant plug-n-play answers for now. I'll have to set things up for more permanent back-up power, heating, cooling etc in the shop later on after we are successfully living there ....


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

I have many Amish customers that I supply with Amsoil from my shop for their diesel stand-alone power units and small engines, mostly Hondas. They always want the best. Both in protection and value and they’re not satisfied unless they can get Amsoil. Sure I’m biased but I suggest that you look at Amsoil for their first rate synthetic Small Engine oils. No other company makes specialized lubes for these types of applications. Pm me for a link for more info or to save 25%. Dutchy


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Another option is a diesel generator with a base tank like my 100 gallon. My 13 Kw generator can do prime power for about 1/3 gallon per hour. Use that for temporary power and then permanent standby.


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## email4eric (Dec 23, 2018)

Lots of good advice here that I won't pile on to. I have a Honda EU6500is (predecessor to the 7000) with the Motorsnorkel trifuel kit on it. I've never run gasoline, used to use NG at my former residence, and now use propane. I have a dedicated 500 gal tank. This generator has worked flawlessly on both gaseous fuels. 

I might offer that US Carboration, the providers of the Motorsnorkel kit, also sell new inverter generators already equipped with their trifuel conversion though I think that they are Yamahas. I don't know much about the Yamaha but I believe that they are also well regarded.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

email4eric said:


> Lots of good advice here that I won't pile on to. I have a Honda EU6500is (predecessor to the 7000) with the Motorsnorkel trifuel kit on it. I've never run gasoline, used to use NG at my former residence, and now use propane. I have a dedicated 500 gal tank. This generator has worked flawlessly on both gaseous fuels.
> 
> I might offer that US Carboration, the providers of the Motorsnorkel kit, also sell new inverter generators already equipped with their trifuel conversion though I think that they are Yamahas. I don't know much about the Yamaha but I believe that they are also well regarded.


not so much love for the yam gear here....
check out the wave form sometime....
and the basic regulation on the inverter units...
i do not know if they got it fixed yet...
but back in 2013 when we tested a bunch of the yam gear....
it failed in a bad way...
at that point we decided to go all honda.
and have never had to look back...


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

iowagold said:


> not so much love for the yam gear here....
> check out the wave form sometime....
> and the basic regulation on the inverter units...
> i do not know if they got it fixed yet...
> ...


I came very close last year to buying a lightly used yamaha ef6300 for a smoking deal. the Ef6300 was not intended for parallel use but the eu7000 was. So I bit the bullet and went with the Honda. I’m glad I did.


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## IdahoBrian (Jul 1, 2021)

Thanks .. Motorsnorkel bookmarked (US Carburetion website is Home - Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion). Things are gelling up in my mind ... probably will buy the 3000 series Honda (Pure Sinewave) for most of the shop, then use my Harbor Freight cheap generator to individually run the drier or range/oven as needed. Those two items will have a separate receptacle, NOT part of the rest of the shop AND will go away when the house is done and we move out of the shop. Spotted a contractor with a filthy old-looking 7000 series riding on his back bumper ... he said he's been using it on job sites all day every day for YEARS and it's been flawless. Score one for Honda!


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## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> .. considering getting a second EU7000is as a backup as well as potentially running both in parallel for my 4 ton HVAC unit..


We run a 4 ton (48,000 BTU) heatpump for cooling and heating on a Honda EU3000i, with power to spare.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

pipe said:


> We run a 4 ton (48,000 BTU) heatpump for cooling and heating on a Honda EU3000i, with power to spare.


48,000btu HVAC unit sounds quite large for a 120v supply voltage.


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## pipe (Jun 27, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> 48,000btu HVAC unit sounds quite large for a 120v supply voltage.


Four of these in a workshop
*PIONEER WYS012AMFI22RL Mini Split Heat Pump, 12000 BTU-110/120 V








Pioneer Inverter++ Energy-Star 12,000 BTU 1 Ton Ductless Mini Split 21.5 SEER Wall-Mounted Air Conditioner Heat Pump-WYS012AMFI22RL-16 - The Home Depot


For full technical specs and other information, please refer to the pdhvac website. Pioneer's newest WYS series wall mount mini split ductless Inverter++ air conditioning and heat pump system allows heating



www.homedepot.com




*


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Yeah. Inverter mini-split HVAC units are nice. We have a 15k BTU Mr. Slim unit in the basement that only draws 1kw. If ever the old 4-ton unit craps out, we'll get a much more efficient system installed.


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## JJ Ranch (Apr 23, 2021)

Our EU7000is ran our house (2500 sq ft) including a two zone ducted mini-split (two evaporators) and a 240 volt pump in our water storage tank. It is quite an amazing portable generator. My 7000's are a backup to my backup diesel generator. ✅


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

I want to add that if you use a 120v-only generator and have multiwire branch circuits in your house, you need to be careful about combining the hots to feed both sides of a 120/240 panel through an interlock kit. If you use a 2000W generator, you'll be fine. Anything bigger and you need to be aware. This is just as important as turning off your 240V circuits.

Speaking of interlock kits, make sure you know when you need a floating or bonded neutral. Some generators can be converted either direction.

I won't go into specifics here, but that should give you enough Google search terms if you aren't familiar with those points.


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