# What should I look for in a generator?



## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

I need a generator for the once or twice a year situation where the power goes out for 4 hours or more. Longest so far was 2 days. I see this Predator inverter generator $650 after coupon at Harbor Freight. I was thinking about getting that. Does that unit make sense or would I be better off with a different brand, size, make? I was thinking if I got something somewhat portable I could use it camping too. 

The other side of me says I should just get a permanent Generac setup with an automatic transfer switch. I was wondering if anyone can explain how I might hook up a transfer switch? I had an electrician take a look at my setup. He opened up the 100amp disconnect outside. I live in a mobile home and it is fed with a 100amp service from big throw switch outside by the meter. He said I had enough wire to disconnect it while it is live? Are things normally done like that?


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## aandpdan (Oct 8, 2012)

How big of a generator do you need? Take a look around your home and find the wattage of the things you NEED to run and those that you WANT to run when the power is out. 

Inverter generators are often more fuel efficient with smaller loads. A smaller generator also uses less fuel than a bigger one. Something to consider for those possible 2 days outages. What fuel source(s) do you have available?

Ideally your electrician would safely disconnect power, maybe by pulling the meter, before starting on such a project.


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

aandpdan said:


> How big of a generator do you need? Take a look around your home and find the wattage of the things you NEED to run and those that you WANT to run when the power is out.
> 
> Inverter generators are often more fuel efficient with smaller loads. A smaller generator also uses less fuel than a bigger one. Something to consider for those possible 2 days outages. What fuel source(s) do you have available?
> 
> Ideally your electrician would safely disconnect power, maybe by pulling the meter, before starting on such a project.


I guessing what he was trying to do is avoid pulling permits. I'm guessing if I did it properly with permits I would have to reconfigure my whole meter base and pay a crap ton of money. I guess what I'm wondering is if it is normal practice to work on a disconnect that is hot? Maybe its safe enough?


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## aandpdan (Oct 8, 2012)

It's not safe. Can it be done? Yes.

What other "shortcuts" is the electrician willing to do? I'm not saying his work would be substandard or not up to code. 

As you said "did it properly" can mean pulling a permit and having to update your meter. What does your AHJ require?


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## RonJ (Aug 5, 2015)

i realize you don't need to use it too often, but you sure want it when you go down for 4hrs or more, a I wouldn't invest in a permanent type like Generac. To me, I want the bang for the buck - with the Generac - it is for the house only. If you install a T/S and use a portable - you can use it anywhere; I use mine to operate equipment away from home. I had mine installed; insurance companies are ready to disavow a claims. I have 6000W portable that is about 10 years old; I need it about twice a year. Ron


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

RonJ said:


> i realize you don't need to use it too often, but you sure want it when you go down for 4hrs or more, a I wouldn't invest in a permanent type like Generac. To me, I want the bang for the buck - with the Generac - it is for the house only. If you install a T/S and use a portable - you can use it anywhere; I use mine to operate equipment away from home. I had mine installed; insurance companies are ready to disavow a claims. I have 6000W portable that is about 10 years old; I need it about twice a year. Ron


One side of me says I could spend under $1000 for a slightly used or new generator with a transfer switch. I really only need lights, furnace and refrigerator. I am just reluctant to hire anyone to do the work because I am cheap and I always end up getting burned by contractors.

The new generac 12KW Home Standby Generator is around $3000 for the parts. The Install is what worries me. I bet they want to mark up the unit and make the total cost $6000 or more.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

AZ? Been a long time since I was there, but remember it was HOT where I was. Guessing AC is a big part of your intended load(s). The 4KW unit you mention could handle one or two 120V window units and additional loads like frig, etc. If you have a 220V central unit, that could be 3KW alone, not leaving much for other loads. You're really talking apples and oranges 4KW portable vs Automatic start, transfer, etc. with a Generac. $650+ a couple of extension cords vs $3500+ a lot of wiring by an electrician if you're not comfortable doing that. Also, do you have natural gas or propane available which you need for a whole house unit. Going with a whole house unit, you will probably need a licensed contractor for the permit. Sure you can do it yourself, but that's a permanent installation and if there's ever a loss, the Insurance folks will be in looking for anything to disallow your claim. You have very few outages, I'd go with the portable and extension cords. If you want to be more "permanent" consider a Generator interlock and backfeed through a 30A breaker from a portable unit, cheap and legal. Since you haven't bought a genset yet, I'd go with a 5-6KW unit, not a huge difference in cost and more power available. Being a majority of one in this forum, not a big fan of the inverter gensets, we have as many computers, smart tv's, etc. as anyone and have had no issue with regular units.


Good luck,


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

exmar said:


> AZ? Been a long time since I was there, but remember it was HOT where I was. Guessing AC is a big part of your intended load(s). The 4KW unit you mention could handle one or two 120V window units and additional loads like frig, etc. If you have a 220V central unit, that could be 3KW alone, not leaving much for other loads. You're really talking apples and oranges 4KW portable vs Automatic start, transfer, etc. with a Generac. $650+ a couple of extension cords vs $3500+ a lot of wiring by an electrician if you're not comfortable doing that. Also, do you have natural gas or propane available which you need for a whole house unit. Going with a whole house unit, you will probably need a licensed contractor for the permit. Sure you can do it yourself, but that's a permanent installation and if there's ever a loss, the Insurance folks will be in looking for anything to disallow your claim. You have very few outages, I'd go with the portable and extension cords. If you want to be more "permanent" consider a Generator interlock and backfeed through a 30A breaker from a portable unit, cheap and legal. Since you haven't bought a genset yet, I'd go with a 5-6KW unit, not a huge difference in cost and more power available. Being a majority of one in this forum, not a big fan of the inverter gensets, we have as many computers, smart tv's, etc. as anyone and have had no issue with regular units.
> 
> 
> Good luck,


I've seen a number of Briggs and Stratton Storm Responder used generators for sale. Usually they are 6250-8000 watts. I'm thinking that would be the best setup for me cost and size. If I had to run to the store and grab a window unit for the summer I could. I guess the only question is what I would have to do to get the power shut off for a few hours. Extremely reluctant to spend $1800 on a new meter base. The poles are $100 each that they require. Not to mention the unistrut, and other boxes. Of course I could open the disconnect and just remove the entry to the house, but a little reluctant to do that too.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

???Why do you want to shut off the power? Use extension cords during the few outages you have. Even if you went with a Generac with transfer switch, you don't have to shut off the power coming in, just the main breaker in yur load center as you wire up the selcted loads.


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## sherlywang (Oct 18, 2017)

It depends on your needs. If you need it to supply a lot of electric stuff, then buy a higher power one. But if you only need it to supply few tools, then buy a low power. 
ATS (automatic transfer switch) is very useful as it can help you automatically switch the power in case of power cut.
An automatic transfer switch (ATS) is a device that automatically transfers a power supply from its primary source to a backup source when it senses a failure or outage in the primary source. When a failure occurs in a primary power system, the ATS invokes a standby source, such as an uninterruptable power supply. An ATS can also start up more long-term backup power systems, such as local diesel generators, to run electric equipment until utility power is restored.


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

For the short durations you're talking about......

That HarborFreight Predator Inverter Genny is X C Lent especially for that price ! You can't lose.

I had 2 generators but that one was SOOOO nice and full of groovy features I hadda have it. And it filled a gap between my 2000watt Honda and my 6250 Powermate noise machine.

Go for the Harbor Freight 3500 Inverter genny and you'll be happy as a pooh with a pot o honey. That said, they also have a 2000watt Honda EU2000i competitor for about $450. That is an awesome deal too. You can't lose with either of those. I was shocked at the good build quality on the Predator Inverter units.

And let me clarify that I have absolutely nothing to do with HF or the Predator brand. I just used that username here because I had just bought one and it was another slow thinking cap day for me.


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## sherlywang (Oct 18, 2017)

I purchased a 13,750kw Propane Generator from Central Maine Diesel a few years ago. 

20 HP Honda engine, Italian generator head. 
Paid about $2300 plus shipping via Paradise Freight which was a few hundred. 
I see the price is just a bit higher now... But the one I want most is Cummins which i saw from a website. 

Recently it blew a capacitor. Central Maine sent me 2 for the price of one even though it is out of warranty. $39 total for two. 

I looked at generators on island but a similar Honda at Quality electric was close to $6000 and it wasn't even a 13750kw. More like 8 or 9000kw if I remember right..... 

They have many generators at great prices but this is the one I settled for. 

Quiet, no smell, propane lasts forever........


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## sherlywang (Oct 18, 2017)

Predator said:


> For the short durations you're talking about......
> 
> That HarborFreight Predator Inverter Genny is X C Lent especially for that price ! You can't lose.
> 
> ...


That sounds great!


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

exmar said:


> ???Why do you want to shut off the power? Use extension cords during the few outages you have. Even if you went with a Generac with transfer switch, you don't have to shut off the power coming in, just the main breaker in yur load center as you wire up the selcted loads.


I'm a little confused what would be the best way. I would really like a way to power my furnace. I believe I could just disconnect the wire nuts at the furnace and use a cord. In my mobile home the panel is mounted in the wall in a door. It is very small. In order to back feed the circuit breaker I would have to mount a plug a or a transfer switch on the wall in my kitchen. I thought it would be easier to just pull the wires off the main disconnect outside by the meter going to the house(with the electric disconnected of course) and wire a whole house manual transfer switch outside. They are about $200 with the socket. Another option would be a suicide cord to the dryer socket. I could cut the main disconnect for safety. Just don't like the idea of a live cord that could come unplugged.


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## RonJ (Aug 5, 2015)

Do you really want to do something like that? Ron


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## thehandyman1957 (Feb 11, 2017)

Please don't do the suicide cord, they call it that for a good reason. :tango_face_surprise

Plus, we just had someone here burn out their fridge because of that

and the only reason it didn't fry everything else in the house was because he 

had shut off most of the house when they turned it on.:tango_face_sad:


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

truckinusa said:


> I'm a little confused what would be the best way. I would really like a way to power my furnace. I believe I could just disconnect the wire nuts at the furnace and use a cord. In my mobile home the panel is mounted in the wall in a door. It is very small. In order to back feed the circuit breaker I would have to mount a plug a or a transfer switch on the wall in my kitchen. I thought it would be easier to just pull the wires off the main disconnect outside by the meter going to the house(with the electric disconnected of course) and wire a whole house manual transfer switch outside. They are about $200 with the socket. Another option would be a suicide cord to the dryer socket. I could cut the main disconnect for safety. Just don't like the idea of a live cord that could come unplugged.





truckinusa said:


> I really only need lights, furnace and refrigerator. I am just reluctant to hire anyone to do the work because I am cheap and I always end up getting burned by contractors.


So far you said you "RARELY" would use the generator and that you really only need lights, refrigerator and FURNACE. The Furnace is potentially the only one that would require a bigger genset. The refrigerator and lights can be powered from a smaller genny.

Just keep in mind that the bigger the generator, the more it will cost to run it and the faster it will go through fuel. I always prepare for disasters of unknown length power outages so my thinking is to have the MINIMAL size generator for the job. That's probably why I have 3 generators. The smallest one can run the refrigerator and enough lights for about 12 hours on 1.5 gallons of gasoline.

If you have or can install a large propane tank, then running on propane might be your best bet for a large generator.
Large gasoline / diesel powered generators can consume a LOT of fuel. So if the disaster is extended like what happened in PR, you could run out of fuel. Also, the cost to run a large generator becomes a factor. Generators are never as cheap to run as the power supplied by your Utility Power Company. The cost per kilowatt hour is FAR higher running a generator.

Transfer switches are not normally installed outside, at least for portable units. They are usually installed INDOORS, right next to your breaker box / fuse panel. Can you please take a photo of your INDOOR breaker box and post it?

I installed a Manual Transfer switch in my home 10 years ago. It really was not so difficult. Understanding exactly what you are doing is the key. The beauty of a properly installed Transfer switch is that when installed properly, it is fool proof. In other words, you CANNOT accidentally backfeed or destroy your generator when the power comes back on because the switches will not allow it.

Do you know the power requirements of your Furnace? THAT is critical. You have to know the expected loads and surge requirements before you can buy a generator. Is your furnace the blower for both the homes AC and Heating? Is your heating GAS or ELECTRIC? If your heater is ELECTRIC, your portable generator is probably not going to have enough power to run the heater.
If it's gas, then it probably will.

If heat is your primary concern with regards to the furnace, have you considered a portable propane space heater and portable propane tanks for fuel for that? If AC is your primary concern with regards to the furnace, have you considered having window AC units onhand? I keep two 8,000btu window AC units onhand and install them when there's an extended power outage. They don't require anywhere near the surge amperage and runnng amps that the whole house units do. Just some alternative thoughts.
If you can afford it, and you can afford to have ample fuel stored, then a larger whole house genset is great. I didn't want to invest in one because I know that I am not going to stay where I am for much longer.

I know that if your home was mine, I could safely do what you are trying to do. Again, it's all a matter of REALLY understanding what you are doing. Knowing how the breaker panel works. Knowing how 120v and 240v are distributed in the panel etc. You should study home electrical wiring so that you are fully comfortable with it, then you'll be able to SAFELY do the things you are wanting to do.

Oh, and to be safe, I wouldn't work with live wiring. Always better to turn off the outside main before getting near those wires. Terrible things can happen VERY suddenly if anything goes wrong.

Over and out.....good luck.


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

Finally figure out what I am going to do. I purchased a eb2800i generator from Honda. My furnace "should" require 2340w with a 1/2hp motor and the generator puts out 2500-2800 watts. Specs on my furnace say it draws 8.6a at 120v with that 1/2hp motor. There is a bit of room in my breaker panel. I was thinking I am going to install one of those small furnace switches somewhere in or near the panel. Not a lot of room in there, but maybe I will take pics and you can help me figure it out. Worst case scenario I got an ugly box on the wall.


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## thehandyman1957 (Feb 11, 2017)

Please keep in mind that running a generator (any generator) at full load for a long period of time is a bad idea.

Also keep in mind that your start up current is going to be more than that 

Honda will put out if your furnace does indeed require 2340 watts. 

Is this a gas or electric furnace? The numbers don't add up. 8.6 amps = 1,032 watts.

What are the other 1,308 watts for? You really need to know this.

Also, is the furnace a 120 or 240 volt? Normally any electric furnace will be 240 volt.

If it's gas then you need to find out what the other power requirement is for.

Here are the wattage specs from Honda.

AC Output 120v 2800w max (23.3A) / 2500w rated (20.8A) 

This means that the normal output of the generator is only 2500 with a 2800 surge for a very short period of time.

Do you have a picture of the data tag on the furnace? How about a model #


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

Good stuff Handyman......I forgot about the 120v vs 240v possibility


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

Unfortunately or fortunately I live in a mobile home. It is definitely 120v. Brand new furnace BTW. VMC1-50D36N made by Revolv. Uses 120v and the motor is 1/2 hp. Total amperage is 7.15A or somewhere around there. I was just going by the generator guides that recommended a ~800w furnace needed 2340W to start. Am I correct? Hope so.

Link to furnace specs. I got the one on the left which is 50,000 btu. https://nofile.io/f/EgzeuHWzR1O/furnace+specs.pdf


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## thehandyman1957 (Feb 11, 2017)

Ahhh, ok. Now it makes sense. Yes, you are correct and you should be good to go. 

Something you might consider if your just wanting to run the furnace and a couple other small items 

is to put in a small transfer switch just for the furnace. 

At the solar outfit I work at we install 15 and 30 amp auto transfer switches all the time. 

They are fully automatic and you could just run a male extension cord off of it to the generator.

So when you plug in the cord, the transfer switch will automatically switch it over.

And you can wire it two ways. To switch to Shore power when power is present.

Here is what I'm talking about.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/POWERMAX-P...ash=item4403291014:g:7jsAAOSw5VFWQLXR&vxp=mtr

Very simple to wire in and fully automatic. So when you need power to the furnace, just plug in the 

transfer switch and whatever other low wattage items to your generator and your ready to go.

Or Switch to Gen power when power when it's turned on.


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

thehandyman1957 said:


> Ahhh, ok. Now it makes sense. Yes, you are correct and you should be good to go.
> 
> Something you might consider if your just wanting to run the furnace and a couple other small items
> 
> ...


I'm sure this comes with a wiring diagram and instruction. I assume I would have to buy a separate male outlet to wire up to this? I am also assuming it fails, with no power, to the generator side of things and as soon as power is restored it transfers back to the power company? Maybe it fails open and you have to manually activate the generator side of the switch? 

I probably should just take a picture, but I have this circuit breaker panel in a wall with a faux wood door that covers it. The wall is just a few feet across the hallway from the furnace itself which sits almost in the center of the trailer in a closet. The furnace has about a 6 in gap above it where I could mount a switch or plug outlet, but then I would have to drag the cord across the path of the hallway. The circuit breaker has a 4-6" gap on top and bottom but not a whole lot of room in general. Thinking maybe I need to wire something up where I punch a whole in the outside wall and wire to there? Just not certain where I could put something like this or just a simple furnace transfer switch. 

I would love to have solar too, but wasn't sure how I could get that going. I'd like to have a grid tie system, but the mounting systems seem very expensive. Not sure if there is a cheaper way to mount panels on the ground and I am not certain about how one ties the panels into the home with no available space in the circuit breaker panel like mine?


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## thehandyman1957 (Feb 11, 2017)

The transfer switch can be wired either way. Some folks want it to transfer back to grid if there is power present. 

Others want it the other way around. Wiring is super easy. If the furnace isn't too far from the outside wall 
you could just run a short stretch of 12/2 in conduit to a outside box with a normal 15 amp male plug.

Just some thoughts.

Solar isn't cheap, and cutting corners on mounts could cost you if you don't do them right.
If you got a big wind storm and they ripped off and damaged someone else's roof and they found 
out you cut corners with the mounts you could be held liable.

The only reason I'm even talking about this is because your generator won't run the whole house by a long shot so it would be over kill to wire the whole house unless you plan on getting something bigger down the road. 

A small transfer switch would cover your furnace without taking too much space and it would be fool proof.
the other stuff you could just run a couple cords to.

Now if it was my house, and I knew that I would not be using more than 30 amps worth of stuff on my generator.

I would use the transfer switch, and run a sub box with the circuits I wanted to have powered by the generator. 

This is a bit more in depth but not by much.

The picture below is of one of my jobs. The power feeding into the sub box is from the transfer switch.
The legs going out were the one's I choose to pull from the main box and put in this sub box. 

So now, when the power is on, the transfer switch see's the power and automatically keeps it there.
If I start up a generator it see's this power and switches it.

You can also set it up so that the transfer switch changes upon seeing shore power instead.
So if the power was on, it would switch to shore power and even if the generator was running 
it would not use the generator power until the shore power was shut back off. 

Or, to say it another way, if you had a power outage and were running the generator and the power 
came back on, the transfer switch would automatically switch over to shore power and even though 
the generator was still running, it would not be using any power from it.:tango_face_wink:


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