# Help me decide...



## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

Howdy all - first time poster.

I'm torn between two setups for my new home. I live in New Jersey (centralish) the power doesn't go out that often but I want to be prepared. I work in construction project management in Jersey City / NYC so I'm never too far from my house.

I'm looking for a partial home generator I'm open to standby / manual transfer.

I have a cape roughly 1300 square feet. I have forced hot air with central air hooked into forced air system.

My home consists of LED lights and gas appliances (stove, hot water, dryer). I do have a microwave and a toaster.

I am between a brigs and Stratton standby 12kw system or a Westinghouse 12000eh the model with THD under 5%. I am struggling to make the right decision and pull the trigger. Hopping someone can help me decide.

Best,
Joe


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

I forgot to add the biggest thing to my list.

I'm a salt water tank snob - I need to have redundant life for my tanks.

I figure I can keep the tank on a UPS for a short period of time until the generator would kick on or get hooked up.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I'm partial to inverter generators. Quieter, efficient, perfect waveforms. You may want to think about paralleling two lower cost inverters than going with a larger, louder unit. Also offers redundancy in case one craps out during an outage. Also consider a softer start unit for your HVAC, and getting a generator that can run on multiple fuels.

I have the Honda EU7000is. I can't recommend any other unit since I only have experience with this one. I converted it to run on natural gas using the MSK7000 kit. I don't run my main HVAC during an outage, but I do have a smaller mini split unit in the basement if we need to cool off.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea most in here know i am a BIG fan on honda eu series.

and the natural gas conversion kit works great!

take inventory on what your real power needs are.
make a BIG list of what needs to run in different category's

the fish are basic life support!
same as if you have an o2 machine for an elderly person in the hospital.
they cannot live with out it, same on the filters and tank heaters.

spread sheet works great for those handy with computers.
and makes it easy to change the priority etc.

volts are split for two groups 120 vac and 240 vac...
some of the mid sized hvac units will need the 240 vac for air con cool. 
but they make smaller units that are 120 vac in the mini split inverter units.
the mini split design is way better on what they do with a watt!

noise is a BIG thing if you are in the city...
that is why we love the eu7000is gen set...
super quiet before you do any thing extra like a gen shed.
exhaust is a BIG BIG thing if you are in the inner city area...
so a gen stack with a powered vent exhaust might be what you need if it is in a tight close in location.


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## Mike M (Sep 5, 2021)

I had a Protran transfer panel installed inside my home (by an electrician) with an inlet mounted on the outside.
I use a Honda EU3000is generator as my back up power unit.
When power is out, my gen can power:

heater (gas/forced hot air)
'fridge & freezer
office (router/computer/internet hub)
living room (TV, etc.)
The above is all we really need to get by in a pinch.
My set up is enough to get us through a power outage during the winter (nor'easter, etc.).

If power goes out during the summer I have a relative that has an extra 5000BTU window air conditioner (unboxed) in her basement - if we really need it..


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i prefer manual transfer for me.
i like to be in control.

but if you are away from home an full automatic might work out well.
and get the style that will let you know that you are on backup power.

or sign up for the utility alert lets you know if your power is out and that the power is restored.
text and email on that just in case the cell towers are down.


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

I think I'd go with a standby as well, but you have to ask yourself, how long am I going to be in that house? Also, are you on natural gas? If not you'll have to arrange for propane, and you don't want a small tank.

Going away for the weekend, sure the generator can run on its own. But, for a couple of weeks, you don't want that standby running until it runs out of fuel (propane) or oil. Never mind fuel is not cheap.

Maybe some kind of battery backup would work for those relatively small loads. You could even have it devoted to just the tank to conserve battery, but of course the house would get cold in the winter. Maybe add solar.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Hallowhead said:


> Howdy all - first time poster.
> 
> I'm torn between two setups for my new home. I live in New Jersey (centralish) the power doesn't go out that often but I want to be prepared. I work in construction project management in Jersey City / NYC so I'm never too far from my house.
> 
> ...


 Well the standby unit is $8-10k installed and the portable is likely $3500 for the generator and interlock/inlet wiring.

You can save many thousands of dollars going with the portable… But need to contend with gasoline storage(plenty of it), potential carburetor issues from bad gas, rolling out, hooking up, and starting it…


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## Mike M (Sep 5, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> Well the standby unit is $8-10k installed and the portable is likely $3500 for the generator and interlock/inlet wiring.
> 
> You can save many thousands of dollars going with the portable… But need to contend with gasoline storage(plenty of it), potential carburetor issues from bad gas, rolling out, hooking up, and starting it…


The $3500 figure sounds about right....

I like my (EU3000IS) portable as: rolling it out / starting / connecting, is not a big deal for me.
In my location I've never had an issue with acquiring gasoline for my generators.
I have three 5 gallon gas cans that I use - one of which is always full (I dump its contents in my truck / refill with fresh on a monthly basis). 
If I see a storm on its way I fill all three....

Since my unit is portable I am able to transport it to different locations to helps friends that have lost their power.......or use it with a remote sound system for performances.

FWIW: We have friends that have a Generac backup generator installed that-did-not-work during a 4 day outage.
They immediately called the company that installed it for warranty service and the guy came a week later.......

Call me anal-retentive but I trust _my_ maintenance.....


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

I've settled more towards the generac 7.5kw powerpact. 

I'll do all the installation. So won't be any cost associated with labor. It is about 2000 plus another 500 for wire gas pipe.

It can't run my AC but can run everything else. I'm debating going for the 10kw but battling with I'm probably not in my forever home.


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

I don't have any personal experience with the power pact, but I have read that the 10kw unit is built better.


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

VelvetFoot said:


> I don't have any personal experience with the power pact, but I have read that the 10kw unit is built better.


Do you have any articles on this?

Naturally it's a bigger unit. Power punch.


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

I think it's more than just being bigger. I've been following the forum below and the ziller one since before I got my 22kw not too long ago. I just recall reading this, and maybe a couple others.

"These Powerpact units are nothing more than a portable in a plastic box. Complete with half moon voltage regulator and splash lube engine.'






Generac 6998 7500 watt Installation issue - Generac Generator Troubleshooting, Help, and Repair Forum | Gentek Power







gentekpower.com


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

VelvetFoot said:


> I think it's more than just being bigger. I've been following the forum below and the ziller one since before I got my 22kw not too long ago. I just recall reading this, and maybe a couple others.
> 
> "These Powerpact units are nothing more than a portable in a plastic box. Complete with half moon voltage regulator and splash lube engine.'
> 
> ...


Interesting. It's redundant power for me. Not an off grid scenario. So if I use it once a year it would be a lot.


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

How much more is the 10kw.


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

VelvetFoot said:


> How much more is the 10kw.


The 7.5kw is 2,000 + tax, the 10kw is 3,500 + tax. The 10kw also allows entire house for me, including my AC. It seems like for another $1,600 bucks I get a much better unit and the ability to handle my air. Just bought my house, and feels like a lot. My family is persuading me to get the larger unit.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

10kw at the minimum, seems like a waste to have a standby that can’t run the AC.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i would look in to portable air con units..
those little air units on wheels for room..
400 bucks up on those... watch the power draw on the tags.

and some time all you need is to get rid of a bit of water in the air during a summer run..

and you could put up plastic for summer or winter to make a BIG house smaller inside.
that zip wall stuff is cool for this.
they use it for construction dust.
reusable as well!


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## Hallowhead (Dec 17, 2021)

I went with this unit.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-Guardian-Series-WIFI-Enabled-10000-Watt-LP-9000-Watt-NG-Standby-Generator/1001270096



I'll begin the hunt for discounted wire and run my gas lines.

Outside of that - does anyone else see anything else I'll need ?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Just be sure to familiarize yourself with the applicable gas and electrical codes. I have no idea what level of expertise you have in these trades, but a proper install is no small task.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Oct 23, 2021)

Important lessons for me, when I was running a Generac standby unit ...

1. it must be installed per their "installation" guide, included with the unit, carefully, with all I's dotted and T's crossed. If not done this way, they will easily use that to get out of warranty items. Typically, you sign up for a local auth'd dealer to come out and install it; they would also be the ones to come out and service it. If you don't do things the "generac way", you might be going the route of "self-supported", which isn't the service model they want, and which gets Generac out of the warranty business.

2. Generac's on-board computer (evolution controller board) logs much info, including whether or not scheduled maintenance items (A & B schedules), are being done at reasonable times. Typically, your service guy does this for you. He'll help you set up monthly exercising and other such stuff.

3. There is some (fairly easy) way to get an "extended warranty", so look into that from your vendor of the unit. It'll probably be in the paperwork.

4. use Ziller's forum for more info ... a great forum, with helpful folks who sell/service these things.

I couldn't take advantage of any of this, as I was out in a rural area, and off-grid to boot. This "violates" Generac's rules on installation, so I had no warranty, and little to no support; a service call totalling $500 was not atypical, so I went self-supporting. Managed to install and operate a 22kw standby model for about 2 years (two hours per day, every day), before it went belly up w/ stator/rotor needing replacement. It's now sitting off to the side to be parted out, as stator/rotors are somewhat expensive to replace, if not under warranty ... as we don't have access to the nifty "field service guide" that auth'd technicians have, such field work is outside the scope of an average handyman.

You should get way more life out of yours, if not needing it more than a few times per year.

Again, just remember that Generacs (standby and larger) have a "service model" that hinges strongly on being installed/serviced by an auth'd dealer, along with regular service visits and such.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Hallowhead said:


> and run my gas lines.


If you are going underground, you might consider something like this...
HOME-FLEX Underground 3/4in IPS New Install Kit (1)3/4inx100ft Pipe, (2)3/4in Couplers, (2)3/4in Meter Risers, Gas Line Detection-18-429440-007 - The Home Depot


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

Some of the new ones have hydraulic lifters (14kw?). That might be worth thinking about


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## JVazquez53 (Jul 8, 2021)

Hallowhead said:


> I forgot to add the biggest thing to my list.
> 
> I'm a salt water tank snob - I need to have redundant life for my tanks.
> 
> I figure I can keep the tank on a UPS for a short period of time until the generator would kick on or get hooked up.


I would go for inverter generators. I have two Honda EU7000is, best investment I have made. Very efficient, like 18-20 hours on 5 gallons of gas, super quiet. Also electronics friendly. I use those at nighttime and during the day i have a non inverter Firman. Powerful but noisy and not as efficient like the Honda. Why three? I live in hurricane alley (Caribbean) and when a hurricane hits, its at least three weeks to a month without power. Last Cat 5, we had no electricity for 4 months.


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## macdenewf (Sep 3, 2021)

Hallowhead said:


> Howdy all - first time poster.
> 
> I'm torn between two setups for my new home. I live in New Jersey (centralish) the power doesn't go out that often but I want to be prepared. I work in construction project management in Jersey City / NYC so I'm never too far from my house.
> 
> ...


The 1st thing you have to sort for yourself is if you want convenience power or portable power. 
If you want convenience - go with the hard wired standby generators. 
If emergency power and you don’t mind rolling it out when the power goes off….get a portable.

if portable consider inlet box, wired to a dedicated breaker and a mechanical interlock. They way you can select what you want on or off. Much more functionality than a hard wired manual as you only get access to what you include on the initial install.

if you have access to nat gas, make sure your portable can be converted. Personally I like the pulsar 12k as it’s already propane and gasoline so a real easy conversion to nat gas.

if noise is an issue, get an inverter generator. The Honda’s are awesome. And even if you buy 2 of them ( enough to run your AC) you don’t need to roll them both out unless you need the AC on ( say 6 months of the year). But it’s an option when needed.
Cheers.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

From what I've read, a standby unit tends to be high maintenance. They're super great when they work... until they don't. Then you're at the mercy of the dealer, delays and all. 

If you're a handyman yourself, I'd get a portable one which are vastly easier to maintain and repair. Dual- or tri-fuel models affords you the option of choosing fuel that makes the most sense, in real time. You can still use one or the other fuel types as backup if your primary fuel source becomes scarce.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

JVazquez53 said:


> I would go for inverter generators. I have two Honda EU7000is, best investment I have made. Very efficient, like 18-20 hours on 5 gallons of gas, super quiet. Also electronics friendly. I use those at nighttime and during the day i have a non inverter Firman. Powerful but noisy and not as efficient like the Honda. Why three? I live in hurricane alley (Caribbean) and when a hurricane hits, its at least three weeks to a month without power. Last Cat 5, we had no electricity for 4 months.


Which Firman model do you have? I got a 3602 back in 2018. I've been adding to my generator collection since. 

My cousin just got an EU7000is. He really likes it. He got an interlock installed so he's ready for whatever winter has in store for Texas this time around.


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## somedumbguy (Sep 17, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> Just be sure to familiarize yourself with the applicable gas and electrical codes. I have no idea what level of expertise you have in these trades, but a proper install is no small task.


ditto that. It's likely that a building permit is required for the permanent installations required for this type of generator. I see neighbors getting professional, permitted generator installations and some of what is commonly done doesn't seem obvious (or even sensible) to me. Intuition and previous electrical and plumbing/gas experience may not be enough here. Towns that may otherwise be a little lax in code enforcement might tighten up when your work is outside, easily visible, and involves the trifecta of fire, electrocution, and explosion risks!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

as well as insurance.
some insurance companies are tricky on the fire payout when tie in is not up to code.

and others are cool about it when you exceed code and are working with the fire marshal's on the why.

take your time, do the research for your area, make sure to have a good plan for tri fuel.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

I own the westinghouse wgen12000df and I couldn't be happier. I've had a few generators prior (durostar ds12000eh, wgen9500df) and the 12000df is so much nicer on every level. The pressurized oil system is superior to the splash and the AVR on this thing is rock solid. On the other two generators the frequency jumps all over the place especially with varying loads. This sucker stays rock solid between 59.9 and 60.5. Runs my 3.5 ton AC no problem too. I have mine converted to natural gas which if you're planning on doing is insanely easy on this particular generator


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Sure your going to hear all sorts of setups people are using, and that's good info.
I have a portable 8000 watt 13500 watt surge TroyBilt with a 15HP Briggs engine and electric start. Starts my 3.5 ton heat pump. I installed an Interlock in my breaker panel with a 60 amp breaker, you can run the whole house easily using it. It is a simple device, you turn off the main breaker, lift a slide and then can turn on the gen breaker, it keeps the mains locked off so only one or the other never both main and gen breaker can be on at the same time. No need for a subpanel, it is of course manual changeover, but why would you need auto switching anyway?

Only thing I dont bother running on a gen is the dryer or the oven. But I bet it could run them too.

I can see the attraction of running it on NGas, but you can buy a kit for it.
Not sure if gen has to be derated doing that.

Other thing, I have a thread on here about a way to easily drain a gasoline tank using a 2 way valve, works very well for me, biggest issue with a portable gen, is the gas goes bad, and carbs clog. So if you can mitigate that issue, then a gasoline generator is fine, especially for short to medium power outages.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Another advantage of a portable gen, is... its portable. Not tied to your house bolted down immovable cant use it any other places, take it with you if you move too.

I suppose a disadvantage, someone might try to steal it.


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