# What can go wrong during whole house generator install or usage?



## GreenThumb (Mar 31, 2020)

Hello, Ms. Newbie here with another question to help me prepare for my install.

What can go wrong during whole house generator install or usage?
Context - I'm looking at a 18 - 22 kw Generac or Kohler with an automatic transfer switch.

I realize a million things _could_ go wrong, but what are the risks I should proactively try to mitigate?
What problems that surprised you have you experienced during install and usage?

If there are a lot, that's OK, I can deal with each one, but I'd rather know than not know.

I've had bad recent experiences -
The master plumber (with tons of Yelp 5* reviews) flooded my house twice resulting from a new water softener install.
So I want to personally understand and mitigate the risks.
Especially now when I'm taking care of my favorite Auntie who needs electricity. 

I just had a visual of: On install day something happens that totally takes out the house power, and we can't find a hotel because of coronovirus closures, and...

Many thanks to iowagold, drmerdp, and ToolLover for replying to the first question I asked here (whether to run gas vs electric in the distance between the meters).

One example from that thread, implied by @iowagold:
_>> make sure you have real good UPS units on all sensitive equipment. this does include the furnace if it has late model computer controls._

- It sounds like sensitive equipment could get zapped in the transition from Electricity to Generator and back.


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## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

"


GreenThumb said:


> - It sounds like sensitive equipment could get zapped in the transition from Electricity to Generator and back.



There's the saying, "the devil is in the details", and for that reason I have a different take on this. 
As someone who has performed hundreds of power transfers to and from on-site generation (to utility provider), as well as extensive experience with small business, and large commercial UPS systems.... the comment about needing a UPS for your "sensitive" equipment unfortunately glosses-over (leaves-out, minimizes) a whole lot of real-world hassle and fine details.
For many reasons they're neither a necessity nor even practical. 

I don't recommend a UPS to even my geek friends because, (a) most aren't anal enough to maintain them, and (2) if you lived this long without one then you won't miss it.
IF you are worried about electronic failure then I recommend one of the cheaper and maintenance-free surge protector options.

Rather than get into a discussion of the how's and whys for my opinion, I'll just say I can think of many more arguments 'against' any home-type UPS while finding few valid arguments 'for'.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

I have never thought about the transferring between the main and generator power but I haven't got mine hooked up to the house.

But if you keep the generator in good working order, you shouldn't need a UPS. But saying that I do use a UPS to power all my stuff in my mancave/bedroom. Just from the stories I have heard on the net I would be a tad weary of powering my stuff without a UPS, plus now you can get inverter generators for your sensitive stuff, so it makes you think even more about running you sensitive stuff on a normal generator.... But whatever one you get make sure it has AVR

I have had my generator for a year and monitored the voltage a few times and never seen the volts go crazy so far, but as I say if you look after a generator and use it properly then nothing should go wrong. Plus people wouldn't be allowed to sell or make generators if they caused damage to your stuff.

Theres only really 1 thing that I am a tad concerned about with generators and that is, if the thing gets stuck or seizes up that controls the speed of the engine, because that will damage stuff if that happens.


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

GreenThumb said:


> Hello, Ms. Newbie here with another question to help me prepare for my install.
> 
> What can go wrong during whole house generator install or usage?
> Context - I'm looking at a 18 - 22 kw Generac or Kohler with an automatic transfer switch.
> ...


First, Deal with only those who have proven track records, not S/media reviews only. 
Second, Think everything thru w/o front money being involved. 
Third, Never buy any gen-set from any Mfg that sells to box/package stores. 
Forth, When asking for advice on the net, make sure you fully understand most relays are only based upon their take of your issue, an what experience level may or may not be in the EPG world.

Good luck with your project, but again, think everything thru before committing as a single missed detail, can be very expensive, or troublesome in the life cycle of the product you decide to buy an have installed.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

As far as install goes, the biggest issue is having no electricity as final connections are made. Having no natural gas for a short time is no big deal.

Make sure your contractor is getting proper permits. You want the job inspected For your safety and piece of mind. 

In operation, there aren’t many precautions to take. Surge protectors are a good idea regardless if running generator power or grid power. One neat thing I only recently stumbled upon is brown out protection. Single outlet devices resembling a surge protector wall tap that will CUT power in under/over voltage conditions until power stabilizes.

Make sure you follow the generators maintenance schedule. 

While your electrician is reworking your system I suggest a whole home surge protector that gets attached directly to your electrical panel. These units aren’t the end all be all of surge protection, but they play an important role with helping to protect your large appliances. You still need point of use surge protectors.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ok as far as ups, all you have to plan in the budget on is replacing battery's every 2-5 years depending on the battery type. and test them every month just like a smoke detector.
apc makes a good world class ups units... I use them in my data center locations.


- APC USA


- APC USA
and the cool thing any devices connected to the ups are covered on the insurance from apc.

power back up is more than just lights...
and expensive equipment in any household or biz.
a ups is a combo of surge and short term power backup..
and helps with the power jerks during storms.
and the better units have avr (automatic voltage regulation) as well.

I also run whole house surge protection as another layer of protection.

these devices protect your investment for the events leading up to the outage.

choose your contractor carefully...
the best reference is another client of the contractor!!
yea yelp is ok, as well as other services online... bbb and chamber of commerce is another tool.

most good contractors will have you pay for the materials direct under your name.
that way any issues with warranty etc. are direct with the mfg.
and is a good idea as some contractors may not be doing that brand in a few years as things change fast.

as a contractor I do this!
and have my new clients pay as we go. and they pay and order all of the equipment and parts as needed.
it just keeps costs down.
lol "I have a deal with my banker, I do not loan money and he does not try to fix equipment!!" lol
and the client pays what the materials cost. no jacking around with price markup!!

yup city and county permits when required, inspections as you go on the project, utility companies in the loop.
all good things!!
and get on a first name basis with those folks!! trust me it is a good thing!!

yea lots of stuff can go bad on a site..
gen shack too close to windows, air leaks in the house letting exhaust in, fuel leaks from not using the right sealers or not cleaning the parts right...
the list is endless of what can go wrong..
even bad materials like fittings, but a good tech has the proper tools and skills to help eliminate these issues.

oh yea go see if the contractor has any jobs that are done to see the work and system in person after it is all done.
and pictures are worth a 1000 words as well...

always ask questions... to me there is never a stupid question.
and I love teaching as well.

plan your system and get involved with every aspect.
make sure the system can be added on or updated.
and plan on a good budget, spare no expense if this is a place that you plan on living in for the next 20+ years.
buy the best in class gen set once... stay away from knock off gen sets..
they can be ok but why take a chance if your life depends on it.

and tri fuel is a good idea for places where a fuel source can be an issue during an outage.
watch building and fire codes for fuel and fuel storage.
in town there are strict rules on gasoline and propane (lp) storage in large tanks.
and how close they are to any building.
that is why most of us have selected natural gas (ng) for primary fuel.

oh yea be sure to have a natural gas and propane earth quake shut off device!!
even if you do not live in an area that has large quakes, the earth is shaking up right now.
heck we had an 5.0 here in the states last week in remote areas..
it was a 1.5 here..
it should be in every ones plan for this upgrade asap. even if you do not have a genset yet.
any good gas guy should be able to handle that installation.
and tell the insurance company and utility company you now have one.
there are reduction in insurance rates for safety stuff added to a home.

plan plan plan lol then plan some more.
that is the best advice.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

> I suggest a whole home surge protector that gets attached directly to your electrical panel.


yup these work!! and a re a real good first line of defense or system protection.
if you place these right in the system it will also cover the gen power as well.
just in case the avr fails on the gen...
you never know when the gremlins will show up...

and is a real good idea to get one asap before the gen installation is started.
this is the one I like and use in all my systems I design.
EATON CHSPT2ULTRA Ultimate Surge Protection 3rd Edition
EATON CHSPT2ULTRA Ultimate Surge Protection 3rd Edition 
right now 04/03/2020 they run $125.00 on prime.
you also need a 2 pole breaker for this as well depending on your breaker panel.
they also make a 3 phase version for those who have 3 phase.


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## Gizmo (May 21, 2013)

Although we have a Generac whole house generator, I use a UPS to keep our internet connection up and running when there is an outage. A cable modem reset can take quite awhile to come back online (5-15 minutes) from just a 1 second outage! Our security system, cameras and cell phone (micro cell service) all require internet service. Comcast has batteries from the head end to our home that last up to an hour or more. Our UPS instantly switches over without any delays and provides about 45 minutes of power and surge protection. You may only require surge protection and not a UPS. Maybe you only require a power strip surge protector if you’re only worried about a single medical device. Insurance companies don”t usually give you a break for whole house surge protectors. All electronics are considered disposable! ;-(


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

I maybe the extreme on the electronics..
a bit over $360K worth at home.. all the test gear.
so the ups units as well as the whole house protection. the insurance company gives me 10% off.
and I was able to get another 10% off with the security updates as well.
cameras, locks etc. lol most banks are not as secure..

keep your receipts for every thing.. scan them all. and a inventory record of all the purchase dates, serial numbers etc.
and be sure to get replacement cost insurance. most of the new policy's have this option for an extra cost.
photo inventory as well as a video walk through is advisable as well keep copy's of this in your bank box.

best advice is to plan plan plan...
and always go with the next size larger generator than you need.
it is always better to have a bit extra power available than not to have enough..

if you can visit with others who have systems...
see what they have done, and take notes!!
there are some cool systems out there!!
and if you get a chance to see an off grid system they are pretty cool.
but expensive power..
grid power is always lower cost...
but with all the stuff going on it the world it may not be dependable..
ask any of the cali bunch about the rolling blackouts!!
or the florida bunch about the hurricane power outages..
here in the Midwest it was tornados..


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