# Oil in the valve chamber



## TMackey (Oct 22, 2017)

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum and to generators in general so bear with me.

I bought an off-the-grid property that had a Generac Guradian Series 8kW propane generator, but a Generac repair guy had told the previous owner that the generator needs a "valve job" (that's all she could tell me)

So I opened up the valve chamber to readjust the valve clearances and there was oil all over the rocker arms and the springs–pretty much everywhere. I assume that's not kosher, right? And if not, how do I proceed from here? I attached a photo underneath.

Thanks,
Thomas


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

Oil has to be in there. It's perfectly normal to have oil in that area on pretty much any motor that's oil lubricated.

Your next step should be a valve adjustment and then a compression test. HarborFreight has a $20 compression tester if you don't already have one.

If you remove the valve springs, you can check the side to side valve stem movement and compare that to factory specs for that motor. That can give you an idea of the condition of the valve guides.

Any idea how many hours are on it? Having been run on propane, it should be pretty clean in the head.


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## truckinusa (Oct 17, 2017)

A compression test give you a great idea of what condition it is in. You could also rent a compression tester for free from Autozone, Oreilly, etc. Personally I would just do a leakdown test. 

(copied directly from random Generac manual)
PROCEDURE:1. Remove a spark plug.2. Gain access to the flywheel. Remove the valve cover.3. Rotate the engine crankshaft until the piston reaches top dead center (TDC). Both valves should be closed.4. Lock the flywheel at top dead center.5. Attach cylinder leak down tester adapter to sparkplug hole.6. Connect an air source of at least 90 psi to the leakdown tester.7. Adjust the regulated pressure on the gauge to 80psi. 8. Read the right hand gauge on the tester for cylinder pressure. 20 percent leakage is normally acceptable. Use good judgement, and listen for air escaping at the carburetor, the exhaust, and the crankcase breather. This will determine where the fault lies. 9. Repeat Steps 1 through 8 on remaining cylinder.

If compression is poor, look for one or more of the following causes:
❏ Loose cylinder head bolts.
❏ Failed cylinder head gasket.
❏ Burned valves or valve seats.
❏ Insufficient valve clearance.
❏ Warped cylinder head.
❏ Warped valve stem.
❏ Worn or broken piston ring(s).
❏ Worn or damaged cylinder bore.
❏ Broken connecting rod.
❏ Worn valve seats or valves.
❏ Worn valve guides.


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## TMackey (Oct 22, 2017)

Thanks a bunch, Predator and Truckinusa!

I'll try these things out and see what happens.

Predator, unfortunately I have no idea how many hours are on the Generac, the previous owner didn't track anything.


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

truckinusa said:


> A compression test give you a great idea of what condition it is in. You could also rent a compression tester for free from Autozone, Oreilly, etc. Personally I would just do a leakdown test.
> 
> (copied directly from random Generac manual)
> PROCEDURE:1. Remove a spark plug.2. Gain access to the flywheel. Remove the valve cover.3. Rotate the engine crankshaft until the piston reaches top dead center (TDC). Both valves should be closed.4. Lock the flywheel at top dead center.5. Attach cylinder leak down tester adapter to sparkplug hole.6. Connect an air source of at least 90 psi to the leakdown tester.7. Adjust the regulated pressure on the gauge to 80psi. 8. Read the right hand gauge on the tester for cylinder pressure. 20 percent leakage is normally acceptable. Use good judgement, and listen for air escaping at the carburetor, the exhaust, and the crankcase breather. This will determine where the fault lies. 9. Repeat Steps 1 through 8 on remaining cylinder.
> ...


A properly done leak down test is better.....but the only problem with a leak down test is that if you don't have a compression tester, it's often likely you're not gonna have a compressor either. Also, we have no idea if TMackey can do engine repairs himself because if he can't the cost to have the repairs done might not be justifiable compared to buying a used but working genset....thoughts?


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

TMackey said:


> Thanks a bunch, Predator and Truckinusa!
> 
> I'll try these things out and see what happens.
> 
> Predator, unfortunately I have no idea how many hours are on the Generac, the previous owner didn't track anything.


Cool!
Would be great if you can get it working again without going through too much.
Are you able to take the head off yourself if necessary?


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

FWIW, it might be smart to find out how much the Generac tech wants to do the valve job before you start buying miscellaneous tools if you're not familiar with them and have no one to show you the tricks. Question to ask would be can it be done in a service call or do they come out, remove engine, haul back to shop and then return at their leisure leaving you in the dark. I didn't notice any "symptoms" in the OP other than "previous owner said Generac...." Things like excessive oil consumption, excessive smoking and what color, noisy, etc. 


I'd also investigate the replacement cost of the engine. 8KW is not going to require a large engine probably a single cylinder and if the age and condition of that one is questionable.... Also, the Generac Guardians come with transfer switches, etc. which you don't need off grid. Could be useful to investigate replacing with a simple 8KW propane unit without all the "bells and whistles," for "down the road" consideration.


Good luck,


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## TMackey (Oct 22, 2017)

Predator said:


> Cool!
> Would be great if you can get it working again without going through too much.
> Are you able to take the head off yourself if necessary?


Heh, I'm so new to generators that I'm not even sure what part the head is, but I'm pretty good with my hands and have a decent set of tools. Not sure if that will do though...


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## TMackey (Oct 22, 2017)

exmar said:


> FWIW, it might be smart to find out how much the Generac tech wants to do the valve job before you start buying miscellaneous tools if you're not familiar with them and have no one to show you the tricks. Question to ask would be can it be done in a service call or do they come out, remove engine, haul back to shop and then return at their leisure leaving you in the dark. I didn't notice any "symptoms" in the OP other than "previous owner said Generac...." Things like excessive oil consumption, excessive smoking and what color, noisy, etc.
> 
> 
> I'd also investigate the replacement cost of the engine. 8KW is not going to require a large engine probably a single cylinder and if the age and condition of that one is questionable.... Also, the Generac Guardians come with transfer switches, etc. which you don't need off grid. Could be useful to investigate replacing with a simple 8KW propane unit without all the "bells and whistles," for "down the road" consideration.


Thanks for the ideas, Exmar. I don't have any special tools and am just getting into generators but I've lived off the grid before for many years (someone else used to do the generator-related stuff then) so I'm used to figuring stuff out.

The issue with my generator is that it tries to ignite but it won't start running. There's no black smoke coming out or anything, the ignition is just trying to do its thing and the engine is cranking but never gets going.


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## thehandyman1957 (Feb 11, 2017)

Considering the OP didn't know that there should be oil in the valve cover. 
I would be a bit hesitant to give him to much 
hard info being it might simply overwhelm him.

If he has a friend that has this knowledge and can help him with these tasks then I would say ok.

But if he's flying in the dark, he could easily miss something very important and perhaps do damage to 
the generator or himself. 

I agree with exmar, if you don't have all the tools for this kind of job it could end up costing you more 
than having someone else do it for you. Especially if you miss something important.

And as exmar said, off grid systems are much simpler. Do you have a couple of pictures of the 
generator set up?


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Sigh, if it isn't even running, and you're not sure what the head is, time to call generac, or a local small engine shop and ask "how much will it cost to find out how much it'll cost " to get this fixed, including their best guesstimate of age and condition. With that info, you can evaluate repair or replace. These online forums are, at best, to get ideas, or opinions, or to suggest a pont of departure to resolve an issue. What I think I can glean from the info presented, is that it won't even start an a tech said it needs a "valve job." Could be, but not knowing the hours on the engine or maintenance or lack of the previous owner provided, I'd be suspicious. Given the off grid usage, think it would be safe to assume it's a high hours machine.


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## TMackey (Oct 22, 2017)

Well, I'm happy to report that the generator is running. I reset the valve clearances, exchanged the air filter, the oil filter and the battery and it worked. The rocker arms loosened up after running it for a while so I reset the claeraences and now it seems to be running fine. I'm thinking though that some parts have worn out and I will have a continous problem with the rocker arms loosening, but time will tell.

I'm pretty glad I did it myself instead of paying hundreds of bucks to a repair guy for a relatively simple task.


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

TMackey said:


> Well, I'm happy to report that the generator is running. I reset the valve clearances, exchanged the air filter, the oil filter and the battery and it worked. The rocker arms loosened up after running it for a while so I reset the claeraences and now it seems to be running fine. I'm thinking though that some parts have worn out and I will have a continous problem with the rocker arms loosening, but time will tell.
> 
> I'm pretty glad I did it myself instead of paying hundreds of bucks to a repair guy for a relatively simple task.












:tango_face_smile_bi


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Glad it worked out for you! Thanks for sharing the results, many posters just disappear.....


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## Predator (Sep 19, 2017)

exmar said:


> Glad it worked out for you! Thanks for sharing the results, many posters just disappear.....


Internet's version of "hit and run".....


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