# Elect Start Generator Battery reqmnts



## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

Hello,
I have a Troybuilt 7000W Portable Generator and after the battery died, we started it using the pull rope. It started instantly and ran for 5 hours before it shutdown. I can't see any problems, I checked the air filter, spark plug is new (Gen only has about 10 hours on it since new). Does the 12V battery need to have a charge for the engine to run? Does this Gen have a Alternator? I have read the manual backward & forward and cannot find the answers. It's a Model #190000 or #250000 . (The documentation on this gen is pretty poor, BTW).

I wanted to drain the float bowl but there doesn't seem to be a drain plug. The bottom of the bowl has a device held onto the bowl with a flange and 2 phillips screws (which are extremely tight), which may be a solenoid?

Suggestions?


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## rotorgoat (Jan 21, 2019)

Unless the oil wasn't checked when taken out of the box and now with only 10 hours I wouldn't think it to be an issue. BUT check the oil level. Most gens have a low oil level auto shut off. Next try loosening the fuel tank cap in case the vent is plugged. How many hours is it supposed to run with a full tank?


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

If that is a solenoid under the carb bowl, and if that solenoid is powered by the 12V battery, then that could probably cause it to not start. I would certainly hope that it would charge itself while running, but I suppose that's not necessarily a given. 

Have you measured the battery voltage? If it's definitely low, what happens if you jump it using a car battery? Did it include an wall-powered charger for the 12V battery? You could use that to recharge the battery gradually. 

Do you have spark? 

Will it start if you spray a bit of gas, or starting fluid, into the carb's intake? That would at least help bypass a fuel-supply issue due to a closed solenoid. If it runs for a few seconds, you'd learn something. 

If you turn the ignition off and on, you might feel/hear the solenoid click. If it doesn't click, and the battery is charged, you could try gently tapping the solenoid with something, in case it's stuck. 

Good suggestions about the oil level and gas cap.


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## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

rotorgoat said:


> Unless the oil wasn't checked when taken out of the box and now with only 10 hours I wouldn't think it to be an issue. BUT check the oil level. Most gens have a low oil level auto shut off. Next try loosening the fuel tank cap in case the vent is plugged. How many hours is it supposed to run with a full tank?


Checked the fuel, still has 1/2 tank. But the fuel may be old. I am trying to find a fuel bowl drain plug on the bottom of the float bowl but there seems to be a electr device (solenoid) at the low point of the carb. I topped the oil off. Thx for the suggestions -


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## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

*Elect Start Gen Battery Reqts*



RedOctobyr said:


> If that is a solenoid under the carb bowl, and if that solenoid is powered by the 12V battery, then that could probably cause it to not start. I would certainly hope that it would charge itself while running, but I suppose that's not necessarily a given.
> 
> Have you measured the battery voltage? If it's definitely low, what happens if you jump it using a car battery? Did it include an wall-powered charger for the 12V battery? You could use that to recharge the battery gradually.
> 
> ...


Yes, it has a charger, I kept it plugged in so it would start when needed. I will try to jump start it - and I will use some starting fluid to help diagnose. I;m really frustrated by the poor quality of the parts diagrams available for this gen. So far I have not been able to find out if there's anything like a Alternator but perhaps the magneto that fires the plug can charge the battery? I just don't know. This gen was bought in 2012 so the battery has 7 years on it. I'll try jumping it and see. As you said, even is something doesn't fix it, I'll learn something. When we push the start button it will turn it maybe a few inches, the starter is engaging but there's not enough juice to turn the engine over. I'll try my automotive Batt charger. I was hoping to find if the battery was being charged when the motor was running and if the battery needed a charge to operate the engine (the solenoid needs juice perhaps)? I really think that thing on the bottom of the carb is a solenoid because it has 2 wires going to it.

Do you have spark? Haven't checked yet.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

If your generator is the TB7000XP, the wiring diagram is attached below. Looks like it depends on an external battery charger through a float port to charge the 18Ah battery. That generator is actually a rebadged Briggs & Stratton power product. I think the B&S model number may be 80012552WS. 


lturn9 said:


> This gen was bought in 2012 so the battery has 7 years on it.


After 7 years, that battery is done. Get a fresh one at walmart.com for $42 delivered: https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-18AH-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-for-AGM/195489805


lturn9 said:


> I'll try jumping it and see.


Be certain not to have the car running. The car's alternator output can destroy the generator's starting circuit.


lturn9 said:


> I'll try my automotive Batt charger.


Don't charge that small battery at more than 2.5Amps. Ditto the above caution!


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

Even if the battery isn't powerful enough to start it, it should hopefully be able to at least run the carb solenoid, if you'd had the battery plugged in. 

Checking spark, and trying starting fluid, should help better understand what's going on.


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## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

Hi All,
The Plot thickens, 2 days ago I tilted the gen on the end of gen away from the carburetor. I also have the fuel flow valve in the Off position. All was good until a few hours ago. Went to run a errand at 12:30 and all was well. We returned at 2PM to find fuel dripping from the air cleaner! We caught it before it went too far making us think it must have started 10-15 min before we got home. Wiped up the fuel and put the gen in the sunshine to force the evaporation. I'm really baffled why it would do this since the carb/air filter was at the high end. Anyone who knows this model (rubber wheels on 1 end and metal braces at the other end) will understand how what I did looks like it was designed to be tilted so the carb area can be worked on more easily. 
Anyway, if time permits tomorrow I will try the starter fluid and the other suggestions. 
Thx again...


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## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

You wrote: Don't charge that small battery at more than 2.5Amps. Ditto the above caution!

Thanks for that. I'm good with mechanical stuff but I struggle with electrical..

My charger has a setting for 2.0A IIRC. I'll try that. wish me luck! ;-)

BTW, I wanted to thank all who use these forums. I have a lot of complaints about social media, but THIS kind of media provides a great way for people to talk to each other to solve real-world problems.

Larry


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

lturn9 said:


> Hi All,
> The Plot thickens, 2 days ago I tilted the gen on the end of gen away from the carburetor. I also have the fuel flow valve in the Off position. All was good until a few hours ago. Went to run a errand at 12:30 and all was well. We returned at 2PM to find fuel dripping from the air cleaner! We caught it before it went too far making us think it must have started 10-15 min before we got home. Wiped up the fuel and put the gen in the sunshine to force the evaporation. I'm really baffled why it would do this since the carb/air filter was at the high end. Anyone who knows this model (rubber wheels on 1 end and metal braces at the other end) will understand how what I did looks like it was designed to be tilted so the carb area can be worked on more easily.


I don't think I'm quite picturing this tilting setup. But with gas leaking unexpectedly, you may want to check the oil. Make sure the level isn't too high, and make sure the oil doesn't smell like gas. In cases of the carb overflowing with gas, like due to a bad needle shutoff valve in the carb bowl, the excess gas can sometimes make its way to the cylinder, get past the piston rings, and get into the crankcase. 

This can raise the oil level, and contaminates it with gas, in which case it doesn't lubricate as well. That can result in engine damage. 

It's just something to check. With the fuel valve closed, I'm not sure why you would have had dripping gas, at least more than the contents of the carb bowl. That assumes the fuel valve is actually closing off the gas supply properly, though.


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## lturn9 (Jan 20, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't think I'm quite picturing this tilting setup. But with gas leaking unexpectedly, you may want to check the oil. Make sure the level isn't too high, and make sure the oil doesn't smell like gas. In cases of the carb overflowing with gas, like due to a bad needle shutoff valve in the carb bowl, the excess gas can sometimes make its way to the cylinder, get past the piston rings, and get into the crankcase.
> 
> This can raise the oil level, and contaminates it with gas, in which case it doesn't lubricate as well. That can result in engine damage.
> 
> It's just something to check. With the fuel valve closed, I'm not sure why you would have had dripping gas, at least more than the contents of the carb bowl. That assumes the fuel valve is actually closing off the gas supply properly, though.


It's the strangest thing I've ever seen and I've worked on engines since the late 60s. Try to visualize this, the end with the carb/air cleaner is tilted so it's about 8" off the floor. I left it like that waiting for the weather to warm up some. It leaked but only about a pint or less. IMO less leaked that would be found in a lawn mower engine but probably about right for a large 4 bbl carb found on the old muscle cars.

ALl good points about the oil being contaminated. I should have thought of that but didn't. I have a Oil Analysis business so I know what happens when oil is diluted. Thanks for the suggestion, it's much appreciated.

I haven't had a chance to do your suggested fixes, hopefully tomorrow, it's supposed to be in the 60s and nothing else is going on. I'll let you know what happens. BTW, when we were cleaning up the gas I could tell by the smell it was "off" meaning stale as I'm sure you know. I should have drained ALL the fuel in the TANK instead of just the fuel in the carb (by running it til it quit after turning the fuel line valve off) - I may have avoided all of this drama if I had followed that simple rule.

Thanks again for all your help!


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