# Remote home run entirely by generator



## Sonny (Oct 18, 2020)

I have decided to run my home entirely by generator. Utility company was charging me more than 600/month for power. What I need to know is how big of a generator will I need. I have a 220 well pump, 220 water heater(for now), propane forced air furnace along with wood forced air back up, refrigerator, small freezer, and lights. It is a three bdrm house. I had house wired for all 12v lights using military grade tank batteries until batteries started failing( very, very expensive to replace). Now everything back to "normal". Any help would be appreciated.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

How well is the house insulated and sealed. I would first consider improving that area. We are in E Texas and are all electric with a 3.5 ton Heat Pump for heat/ac, just replaced a 40 year old 220 volt water heater last year, new model is much better insulated, meaning at same temp for hot water, outside of water tank no longer feels hot, plus i put it on a timer, goes off early night comes back on in early morning. Storm windows, insulated entry doors. Basic 3 bedroom two bath with attached insulated garage. A few years back I had to replace garage door and went with insulated door, then added heat/ac duct as i use it as a hobby workshop and like to stay comfortable. My bill usually runs in low 200 range. I suspect if you go to constant generator use, your bill will be more than 600. To figure how big you need running and starting amps of all things, pump air furnace/ac, refrigerator, freezer, ect stove, toasters, microwaves, lights, tv, computer, ect, ect. Probably not all starting amps as everything will probably not start at the same time, but just guessing 60-70% of those to be safe. 
What are you going to do when the generator fails or needs maintance. You probably will need to stay connected to utility power, via a disconnect, but even then most places you will still pay a minimum monthly charge, Then there is routine maintance on generator engine, oil, filters, what is service interval so how often will all that need to be changed and what is cost. 
I have only seen a few full time home generator systems over in NE Louisiana growing up where people had gas wells on their property and the gas was free to them. Most had two generators so they could be alternated for service or problems, Also look for something with a lower speed 1800 rpm engine vs the more common 3600 rpm, for longer service life and probably lower fuel consumption. It might be feasible if you were running natural gas, but I have my doubts about propane or diesel, and for the long run diesel might be the better option if you can get fuel delivery, either way you are going to need a big tank or series of tanks.


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## motormonkey (Jul 10, 2016)

"I have decided to run my home entirely by generator."
Do you want a continuous duty generator with the capacity to power anything in your house, anytime, or are you talking about an intermittent duty generator that allows you you to power certain loads only at certain times? There's a HUGE difference in the cost, depending on what you want and are willing to pay for.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

First things first. Determine your KW needs. Your electric bill should show how much you use per month. Can you go online or call the utility to determine daily use and peak loads? It would also be useful to look at a years usage. e.g. Higher in winter than summer, etc.

If the generator isn't running, you don't have power. Unless you're looking at batteries and large inverter for non running times which gets expensive, particularly when you look at periodic battery replacement. Having two generators available would be one way to go, particularly as all generators need to be shut down for maintenance.

Sounds like you have propane, propane units in the size you're potentially considering are very thirsty, also, compared to a traditional gas unit are about 10-15% less efficient. You will probably need a bigger tank and larger supply lines from it also.

I'd suggest tightening up your house, as jkingrph mentioned, look at more energy efficient appliances, and generally try to get a handle on why you're paying so much. Depending on where you live, look into wind or solar generation to offset some of your costs.

Deciding to run your whole house by generator will be unbelievably expensive if done properly, and not as reliable as utility power. As motor monkey mentioned, a continuous use generator compared to intermittent run (whole house "emergency" generators, Generac, etc.") is a huge difference in cost. 

Unfortunately, the utilities have us as they can supply power cheaper and more reliably than we can generate it. Hard to believe, but $600 per month is probably a bargain-it's based on your KW usage.

Good luck,


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Sonny said:


> I have decided to run my home entirely by generator. Utility company was charging me more than 600/month for power. What I need to know is how big of a generator will I need. I have a 220 well pump, 220 water heater(for now), propane forced air furnace along with wood forced air back up, refrigerator, small freezer, and lights. It is a three bdrm house. I had house wired for all 12v lights using military grade tank batteries until batteries started failing( very, very expensive to replace). Now everything back to "normal". Any help would be appreciated.


lots of questions for you so far sonny
my first question is the exact location?
nearest city and state only.
and how far out are you from that city?

is wind or hydro power also an option?

also batteries can be from a junk yard!!
get in good with your local car salvage place!!
lots of good batteries every day gone to scrap!

one of the batteries you need to look in to is telephone co batteries.
super large, open batteries.
it takes a skilled person to watch over them...
but they last for more than 20 years.
I know of some that are over 40 years old still in use.

grid is always cheaper power...
unless you have to pay for super long run connection construction cost.
for some super remote areas that is an issue.
we get that in alaska.
way too remote to get power lines yet.

the big thing is the cost per kwh.
i can get by with less than 1 kw in the winter.

now your low volt dc system should work!!
but......
i would think on more batteries...
the higher the battery voltage the less the loss when making 125 vac with an inverter.


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## Gen10K (Jun 25, 2020)

Consider fuel cost and maintenance. I have my house wired for my gen. I use it as a backup because the Power Co is cheaper and save me gen for those days in need. I run a 5K on Natural Gas, if I use Gasoline 8K. So I have the ability of NG, LPG and Gasoline. With the gases is better for storage. The NG as long the service still up, the Gen can run indef on that cheaper fuel with less oil changes.

With 5K I can run the AC and Wash Machine. But is like camping, you have to pick an choose what you want to use.

A cool nice project could be installing an Air to Liquid Cooler to capture the exhaust engine heat and use it for heating. That will make the Gen more efficient. Just a thought.


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## HarryN (Jun 2, 2018)

Most off grid homes use 48 volt battery packs and inverters to run the 120 / 220 vac.

The value of this approach is that you can charge up the batteries from a variety of sources. Solar, wind, generator, grid or an engine driven 48 volt alternator.

You don't need an exceptionally large battery pack as long as you are able to routinely recharge it. An example pack would be 48 volts x 200 amp-hrs of LiFe batteries, so ~ 8 each of something like a battle born or equivalent.

Each battery can support ~ 500 - 600 watts of charging or discharging, so you can estimate the number of batteries based on the higher end of your load expectations.

It sounds like you will need at least 4 - 5 kW of power to run the house, so that is in the right range for inverter sizing.

Solar wise, panels produce about 1/2 of what they are rated for in a typical roof mount arrangement. If you can mount them so that they capture sunlight from early in the morning (east facing vertical wall) - all day long passing over your home, and then late evening (west facing vertical wall) it will help a lot. If you use solar, it will take about 10 kW of panels. Panels cost about $1000 per kW, not including mounting and misc stuff that doubles the price.

It might sound funny to think about solar panels being mounted on vertical walls, but the lack of this type of installation is part of what caused the large power shortages in California in August / September.

You could start your project by making the home "off grid" and keeping the grid power coming in to supplement charge the battery pack as needed. Then keep adding your own generating capability until the full transition makes sense to you.

Plan to spend $25 - 50K to pull it off.

That sounds like a lot, but the fuel bill to run a generator isn't small either.

I am not sure if this will make economical sense or not, but I do understand the frustration of high electric bills. What might be happening is that the utility has put your home on either a "time of use" or "demand response" tiered system. 

Time of use rates mean that the price of power changes depending on what time it is. Demand response means that they price is sold like a wall street commodity - the price can vary wildly depending on demand and the grid's ability to produce. In CA, demand response pricing can change 10X over a single day. What this means is that even a 2 hr battery pack storage can mean the difference between $0.10 / kW-hr and $ 1/ kW-hr. 

I think that it's criminal to do it, but it is all the rage in the utility world.

Another way to step into the fray is to start by taking a few critical loads off grid so that are still powered during emergencies. Example: refrigeration, well pump and some cooking.


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## Airstreamer67 (Oct 3, 2020)

Quote: "...What this means is that even a 2 hr battery pack storage can mean the difference between $0.10 / kW-hr and $ 1/ kW-hr.

"I think that it's criminal to do it, but it is all the rage in the utility world."

Nothing criminal about it. The principle is pure economics. California is finding that out. If the Green New Deal is implemented, this lesson will be learned exponentially.


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## Gen10K (Jun 25, 2020)

Solar Panel tech is not efficient as of today. Is cost prohibited unless the individual is so desperate to be off the grid, and the associated (cells, bat, instal, maint) cost is irrelevant.

Now, consider this scenario.

Let us say the individual has a nice array of solar panels and all sorts of cool power gadgets. Another individual or group of individuals might want it more than the person do.

When people lost all, they loose it all. Desperate people will do the most desperated things.

So that house with a highly visible Solar Panel Array, might be a prime target. Can you pack up and go? I totaly doubt it.

I am trying to find a way to totally silence my Gen. Do not want to broadcast to the entire world that I have power.

And to add to the Green New Deal... what a hoax and a bs full of stupid ideas. Is designed to slaved and robed people blind. Keep in mind these words *"Build Back Better"*. When you hear that, is the UN talking, Globalists, power hungry elite milieu/cliqué speaking. When someone say those words, they are speaking for such elites.

Want an example of socialist ideologies? Search on some called Pruitt-Igoe Project and you will see why "The Projects" are called "The Project".


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## motormonkey (Jul 10, 2016)

Let's leave the green new deal and socialist ideologies out of this.

The OP has not responded. OP, how about a little clarification.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I like the idea of a solar panels, a 48v battery bank, and 5k inverter. Add a 500 gallon or bigger propane tank and an EU7000 in An operating enclosure. Convert the generator to run propane and use a remote start unit like a GSCM-mini to automatically fire up to charge the batteries when they hit a low threshold. Non essentials and large loads can be wired to a separate panel fed only by the generator. A simple toggle switch in parallel ran to the GSCM can fire up the generator from inside the house when ever needed.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

good idea dr!
and expand on the battery bank when he has the extra cash.
BIGGER is better on the storage banks for sure.


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