# Advice on 15w40 oil/API for diesel generators



## Wes (Oct 25, 2020)

Had an issue here with some Generators as per the attached photos And the issue came up that it could be the 15W40 Oil and Different API specifications. They are 500 KvA generators from Perkins.

Was wondering what oil people are using including the brand and API number(s);
For those who may be using Zinoil or Petrogulf or Mirroil (all of which are CH-4 API), have there ever been any complaints as to their performance?
We have been using Zinoil and Petrogulf these past two years With no incident and suddenly this happened, leading to generators engine failure.

The Generators’ Perkins manual indicates that CG4 is acceptable and CH4 is ideal, so I am clueless as to what the problem could be.

Attached some photos.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we use shell synthetic in the diesels.
they make a 15-40 and a 10-30

or royal purple.

use a remote oil filter system on the diesel gen set!!
get larger flters for the dual head!


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

were the head gaskets trashed??


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

head gaskets are a 5 to 10 year thing.
as long as they have plenty of coolant.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

No cllue about those oils. I am guessing from a quick goggle search that they are marine oils. I am running a 2003 Ford F250 Diesel, bought new and have always used synthetic oil in it with a bypass oil filter. I use either Mobil 1 or Shell Rotella 5w-40 and have never had a problem. From my limited experience I think most readers and posters here are using much smaller generators than your 500KW, mine is a 11Kw, so huge difference and gasoline powered. It also is much older, but rather low hours and I have always used full synthetic oil, and change the oil if the use is only a few hours, figuring oil is cheap vs repairs, and my generator only uses 2.5 quarts, so at $7.00/quart thats about $16 for an oil change.

I don't know what spec oil those big engines require, but newer diesel oils for engines like my truck and larger OTR tractors use Ck-4 spec oil which is several generations beyond the CH-4 you mentioned.

I wrote all this late last night before the others posts and forgot to enter it.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

I had a friend that oversaw a fleet of trucks.
I owned several diesel tractors and trucks and he recommended Shell Rotella 15W40 for summer and 5W40 for winter.
He said they never lost an engine due to oil problems.
By the way, five engines I owned were Perkins.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

we see head gaskets a lot as an issue on older diesels...
at least in the ones that sit un used a lot.
antifreeze goes acid... and eats on the head gasket!
they need to test that every year!!

and the severe heat and pressures trash the metal in the head gasket..
I have pix of that!!
we doc all the repairs we do...
and school the owners of why on PM's

and yea change the anti freeze every 3 to 5 years in all equipment!!
and every year use the antifreeze test strips!!
ford makes the solution they add to the antifreeze to get it back to a base from acid.
expensive stuff, but it sure beats an ate up aluminum head!!


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

I am going to add a little different note that is related to antifreeze.
I was replacing my timing belt on the ES6500 Honda. I found the water pump impeller was almost eaten away by the antifreeze.
Being an aluminum engine and an aluminum impeller I used the pink antifreeze made by Mercedes Benz which is for aluminum engine blocks.


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## Wes (Oct 25, 2020)

jkingrph said:


> No cllue about those oils. I am guessing from a quick goggle search that they are marine oils. I am running a 2003 Ford F250 Diesel, bought new and have always used synthetic oil in it with a bypass oil filter. I use either Mobil 1 or Shell Rotella 5w-40 and have never had a problem. From my limited experience I think most readers and posters here are using much smaller generators than your 500KW, mine is a 11Kw, so huge difference and gasoline powered. It also is much older, but rather low hours and I have always used full synthetic oil, and change the oil if the use is only a few hours, figuring oil is cheap vs repairs, and my generator only uses 2.5 quarts, so at $7.00/quart thats about $16 for an oil change.
> 
> I don't know what spec oil those big engines require, but newer diesel oils for engines like my truck and larger OTR tractors use Ck-4 spec oil which is several generations beyond the CH-4 you mentioned.
> 
> I wrote all this late last night before the others posts and forgot to enter it.


Yeah, I saw most posts were about smaller engines. Will look for another chart.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

I used to have a 600KW Caterpillar and we used this: *130-7055: Cat® DEO 10W-30 (200 L) *
Comes in the convenient 200 Liter Drum! Here's the spec sheet download link for both the 15W-40 and 10W-30:


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjeto_8gtPsAhUJCc0KHcihCRUQFjACegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.petersoncat.com%2Fsites%2Fcat%2Ffiles%2Fdownloads%2FCat%2520DEO.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1ZhWwdlmMmv1EEsj6L3RzY


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Wes said:


> Yeah, I saw most posts were about smaller engines. Will look for another chart.


I think after you get it repaired, I would consider a newer spec oil, CJ or CK 4 oil, but check exact specs on that oil. Most form some makers like Mobil, & Shell, the only two I am familiar with, are generally backward compatible to earlier standards. I think as you can get from my earlier post that I am a firm believer in the synthetics. From everything I have read they are more temperature stable, and less prone to breakdown, being designed with more uniform molecular structure. I personally use synthetics in both my truck, my wife's 20 year old Mercury Grand Marquis (it still does not use any oil), my big riding Scag lawn mower, bit Honda generator along with two small generators, pressure washer, and even my two cycle equipment.
When you get it back in service, you might consider at regular points to send an oil sample into one of the labs that does testing, Blackstone is the one that comes to mind. They can give an analysis that shows how the oil is holding up, and what metals might be present in the oil which will indicate wear and type of wear.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Yikes that’s a lot of sludge. That’s from a lack of oil changes, and not so much the oil choice. Rotella is an excellent inexpensive oil but I favor full synthetics, preferably amsoil. At that point manual intervention is the only way to clean up that sludge. I’ve heard of people having success with running a quart of trans fluid in the oil for a 100miles and changing the oil...Every few thousand miles but that’s an old school method and I wouldn’t try it with a new vehicle. And old diesel might be just fine, just a bit thin on viscosity. 

Antifreeze is so often overlooked, it has corrosion inhibitors which loose their effectiveness over time. Which is why it needs to be replaced. OAT antifreeze is okay but HOAT is much. G06 or German antifreezes are top quality and what I personally use in my VW and GM vehicles.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea it will be a total pain to get all of that flaky trash out of the hidden passages!!
you have to get it all out!!
just saying!! lots of work dealing with that mess!!
ultrasonic and hot dip is the way to deal with it...
what is the cost on a rebuilt crate engine??
$10,000.00 usd to $15,000.00 usd?
those man hours add up on a larger diesel fuel engine rebuild to do it right..


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> Yikes that’s a lot of sludge. That’s from a lack of oil changes, and not so much the oil choice. Rotella is an excellent inexpensive oil but I favor full synthetics, preferably amsoil. At that point manual intervention is the only way to clean up that sludge. I’ve heard of people having success with running a quart of trans fluid in the oil for a 100miles and changing the oil...Every few thousand miles but that’s an old school method and I wouldn’t try it with a new vehicle. And old diesel might be just fine, just a bit thin on viscosity.
> 
> Antifreeze is so often overlooked, it has corrosion inhibitors which loose their effectiveness over time. Which is why it needs to be replaced. OAT antifreeze is okay but HOAT is much. G06 or German antifreezes are top quality and what I personally use in my VW and GM vehicles.


That's what I was thinking, but not being a mechanic and have never torn down an engine did not want to make that comment. I did not know that about antifreeze, I remember when we drained and changed every year, and radiator leaks were common. My wife's Mercury is 20 years old and I think it has only been changed once and is showing no problems, but I think I will take it in for a flush and change.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Wes said:


> Had an issue here with some Generators as per the attached photos And the issue came up that it could be the 15W40 Oil and Different API specifications. They are 500 KvA generators from Perkins.
> 
> Was wondering what oil people are using including the brand and API number(s);
> For those who may be using Zinoil or Petrogulf or Mirroil (all of which are CH-4 API), have there ever been any complaints as to their performance?
> ...


That is an unbelievable amount of sludge. I'm not familiar with the oils used but part of the blame is on the person overseeing the maintenance of these units. Just visibly inspecting the oil regularly should have provided an indication of an issue. However, This is a good reason for used oil analyses to determine the condition of the equipment and the condition of the lubricant used. A very good oil, as mentioned earlier by someone, is AMSOIL synthetics. It is an American company and was the First Synthetic Oil available in North America. Not only do they provide a superior oil but used oil analyses as well. The combination is very useful in determining maintenance schedules or discovering an issue before it becomes an expensive problem. 
Below is their Signature Series Max-duty Synthetic Diesel Oil - DME 15w40
API CK-4/SN, CJ-4, CI-4+, CF








10W-30 Synthetic Small Engine Oil


Shop 10W-30 Synthetic Small Engine Oil at AMSOIL. Find premium synthetic oil, filters and more online. Fast, free shipping available.




www.amsoil.com




or 
AME 15w40 for pre 2007 diesels, 
API CI-4+/CI-4/CH-4/CF/CF-2/SL/SJ








SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Oil


Shop SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Oil at AMSOIL. Find premium synthetic oil, filters and more online. Fast, free shipping available.




www.amsoil.com





Both of these long life oils are more than adequate for your application and with a reliable history as well. Shipped right to your door too. 

Keep us posted if you can, Dutchy


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Disregard the first link to small engine oil, my fat fingers....
This is the one I meant to send DME 15w40 oil 








Signature Series Max-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 15W-40


Shop Signature Series Max-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 15W-40 at AMSOIL. Find premium synthetic oil, filters and more online. Fast, free shipping available.




www.amsoil.com




Dutchy


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

I hear thin gs about amsoil, mostly good, but the price is out of reach for a lot of us. My Ford diesel pickup uses 4 gal and at $47/gal that would be $180+ just for oil in a change, then add filter, and I have a bypass filter in addition to the factory filter, so I would be way north of $200 for a change, and have not mentioned the labor/service charge. I'll stick with my Mobil 1 turbo diesel or Rotella full synthetic, at about half that price.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Yes somewhat true about the price of Amsoil. But most folks can't afford diesel pickups either, unless they are using them to make a living, and then you want to use the best products out there. That being said this topic was started by Wes who now has expensive bills and down-time due to inferior products or bad maintenance or a combination of both. Using a good Synthetic oil like Amsoil and following a UOA schedule will easily extend the oil life twice or longer and show any issues before they become a problem. Just my 2 cents... Dutchy


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Back in 99&2000 I was somewhat pushed by my mother, wife and sister to get one. Got a big long bed crew cab 4x4, and honestly it's a dream on a good road. Rough road and you know it's a truck. The 2000 Ford 6 L diesel is noted for shearing and breaking down oil, and recommends 5000 miles for sever service or 7500 normal, I drive mine mostly highway miles and never hot rod it so go 7500. For me that equates to an oil the mileage I am now driving to every 8 to 14 months, Since retiring $200+ for that interval is not in the cards when I get good oil and pushing 200,000 miles with no problems seems to be working fine.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

they make the better kidney systems now for the large oil systems.
they work great for diesel trucks.
just change the socks, and treat the oil with an acid remover sock to remove the sulfides.
some of that oil looks better than the day it was poured in!
but you have to know what you are doing on those systems.
and oil testing is a good thing!

we have a csi oil testing unit for the basic in house testing.
best $60k we spent for the service shop!
works well to see if you need to change the socks.
and each month send in the oil sample to the big lab at $60.00 each track the wear.
I bet these days you can get those csi units on the cheap..
we purchased ours back in 1998... with the vibe tools for predictive maintenance.
total package deal...
it was paid for in a month of industrial testing...

yea the dual filter system is the way to go on the diesels!
change the filters every 1-2k miles depending on how it is driven and the load.

the issue on the small engines are the filters are way way too small..
they cork up fast... and go by pass when cold...
grrrr... lol!
better filters sure make a system!
and now that trucks are 65 to100k depending on how you custom set them up...
a person cannot afford to trade them every 2 years to stay ahead of the warranty any more...
so they just drive them...
a dodge with the cu engine if you take care of it will go way over 500k miles..
the trans or the truck body will fail before that!

and on the dodge trans issue... there is a shop near us that makes the conversion kits for the Allison trans to fit the dodge!!
I like the Allison as it has that spin filter you can change every other engine oil change and stay ahead of the trans oil issues!
that is a beast setup!!
now if dodge would do those as factory!!
I might buy a new dodge diesel!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Rotella is great for the price, no qualms with that. I know a few guys that run the 15w-40 on their gas work trucks with HUGE success. The powerstroke HPOP systems are very tough on oil. The 6.0s get a bad rap, if you delete the EGR cooler and don’t go past a modest tune they are powerful and reliable. I strongly recommend FASS or equivalent fuel upgrades.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

amen on fass on any diesel!
high flow rocks on the pumps..
makes a pump last that million miles.
and it sure helps on winter startups.
we have noticed that the trucks with the fass get better power as well as mpg on the interstate.
cool upgrade for sure.

yea oil changes on all engines are important!
one of my clients changes oil every 2000 miles!!
but then again it is heavy duty driving..


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