# AMATEUR MISTAKE



## soberdude (Dec 3, 2020)

Dont be haters--it can happen to a guy like me...pulled out my etq tg72k12 generator to test before a big wind storm...fired it up..hooked up my power cord to the transfer box..went in the house and engaged the switch on my breaker box. went out and turned on the main breaker on the generator and it instantly bogged down and began running like crap.only later did i realize i hadnt shut off the power to the house. suspect i may have fried some electrical in the generator. now only tries to start but wont...hopefully there is an easy solution. looking for all the things I might test/try to remedy. ps..will need it spelled out--including the equipment needed to do it. dont assume I have any knowledge of electrical principles or small engine basics if thats not already obvious. thanks for any help--really need a working generator and not ready to buy another one just yet...don


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Well soberdude you have violated the golden rule of connecting a generator to your system.
Every owner knows to turn off the main before attempting to back feed.
Back feeding is dangerous.
Obviously there was no reason to connect your generator to a hot main.
I must add that if your utility has been down because of line problems you could have induced 4400 or 7200 volts thru your generator onto the lines and killed a lineman.
Back feeding does not stop at your service.
You have fried your genny and best prepare to buy new.
By the way, get a transfer switch before you make this mistake again.
You could be facing a police officer that could be asking if you are really a soberdude.


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## motormonkey (Jul 10, 2016)

Backfeeding to the power line is SERIOUS. If you can't afford a true generator transfer switch, install a generator interlock. It will prevent the main breaker and the backfeed breaker from being turned on at the same time. They're made for almost any brand of breaker box. The one below is an example.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Generator Interlock Kits | Electrician Interlock Kits | GenInterlock


The GenInterlock.com generator interlock kit provides an economical and dependable way to meet your electrical needs.



www.geninterlock.com


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

you are in violation of the 3 rules of back up power.
rule #1 interlock
rule #2 see rule #1
rule #3 see rule #1
lol
you get to sit in the corner and go to bed with out supper!
grin!

yea you are lucky to be alive!
please use an interlock!
your life and your family's lives are worth the 100 bucks for the parts.

we use interlocks as most of us are in bed or in a hurry to get set up fast during a real bad storm.
the interlock is a cool tool that keeps it easy to switch over and is safe!
make a step by step gen plan, put it on paper, laminate it and keep copies posted by the gen inlet as well as the breaker panel.
this helps family members switch over to gen power if you are not there.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

From Soberdude's post, I think he just plugged it into a garage outlet that was already connected to the grid.
This connection could happen to anyone that does not use the proper procedures to back feed.
Sorry Don, but get the interlock that Motormonkey suggested before you buy a new generator.
And leave the burnt out unit sitting in the garage as a reminder.


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## soberdude (Dec 3, 2020)

ToolLover said:


> From Soberdude's post, I think he just plugged it into a garage outlet that was already connected to the grid.
> This connection could happen to anyone that does not use the proper procedures to back feed.
> Sorry Don, but get the interlock that Motormonkey suggested before you buy a new generator.
> And leave the burnt out unit sitting in the garage as a reminder.


ToolLover--the feedback recieved was a real eye opener to say the least..I am embarrassed and humbled. what i did was hook it to a dedicated transfer box in our garage that runs to the house and breaker box. unfortunately, the flimsy toggle interlock between the breakers isnt idiot proof. it is still possible to engage the generator breaker and not shut off the main which I did.. we plan to afford a standby with automatic transfer switch so that I am no longer in the equation.


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## soberdude (Dec 3, 2020)

soberdude said:


> ToolLover--the feedback recieved was a real eye opener to say the least..I am embarrassed and humbled. what i did was hook it to a dedicated transfer box in our garage that runs to the house and breaker box. unfortunately, the flimsy toggle interlock between the breakers isnt idiot proof. it is still possible to engage the generator breaker and not shut off the main which I did.. we plan to afford a standby with automatic transfer switch so that I am no longer in the equation.


ps..fyi--yes I am actually sober in AA over 33 years...go figure....


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## bwswede (Sep 13, 2020)

Interlocks are great and are highly recommended but you have to have a main breaker on your panel to use one. Since ours does not have a main breaker I simply pull the meter and when power to the neighborhood is back on I call the power company and they come out reseal the meter, no questions asked.

Blane


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

bwswede said:


> Interlocks are great and are highly recommended but you have to have a main breaker on your panel to use one. Since ours does not have a main breaker I simply pull the meter and when power to the neighborhood is back on I call the power company and they come out reseal the meter, no questions asked.
> 
> Blane


our utility company would freak out on a meter pull these days!
one word "diversion"
$5000.00 in fine and make the list for no power!

we used to use our own meter when setting up systems.
and they would bill the total used every month.
those days are long gone now..

cut tags are a bad thing here...
they cut it at the pole!
and then you have to deal with the diversion legal team!

this is why they now want to have the outside breaker by the meter on the new systems.
at least in our new local code here.


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## bwswede (Sep 13, 2020)

I figure if they can provide me reliable power then I have to do what I have to do. What if I have some sort of medical device that needs to have power 24/7 to keep someone alive in the house? Are they going to fine me because they can't keep the power on?

Nonetheless, your comment regarding an outside breaker near the meter is intriguing. Do you have any information on these items?

Blane


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## bwswede (Sep 13, 2020)

If they *CAN'T* provide...


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

rock and a hard place for sure!

so for new they want this
click here for the meter and breaker
or this
click here for the 200 meter and breaker

I just set an outdoor 200 amp breaker by the meter


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## bwswede (Sep 13, 2020)

We have multiple houses (for investments) and they all have either a meter-main at the point of power entry or a main breaker inside the house at the panel, or both. The house we live in is the oldest of all of them and doesn't have any of the above. I am curious to know how you set an outdoor 200 amp breaker by the meter. I don't think I have ever seen this retrofitted to an old meter. Do you have any photos handy?

Thanks,
Blane


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

iowagold said:


> our utility company would freak out on a meter pull these days!


I was waiting on a Central Maine Power meter pull to install my GenerLink, when we had an ice storm that knocked down a birch tree on my service and tore everything off the house. The line crew came by and dealt with the tree and rehung the wires to a hook on my house, but I had to remove the meter to bolt the meter base and conduit back onto the house. I took the opportunity to install the GenerLink, and the power company has never even come back to look at things, let alone reseal the meter.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

I don't think you would call it a breaker, it has no circuit breakers involved. My electrician friend called it a double throw disconnect, rated 200 amps. Cannot remember the brand and it's raining now so don't want to go out and get wet. It was installed between my meter and the inside circuit breaker panel. It has three positions , up is input to house from power company, center is all off and down is input to house via an inlet plug we also installed to connect my big portable generator. We called the power company to disconnect the power lines so it could be wired in. Lady on the phone at the time said it might be next day to reconnect. When the lineman who came out saw what we were doing he gave us his cell phone # and said call when we were ready to reconnect and he would come back even if he was done for the day. Did not take that long and he came back and said he appreciated what we were doing in the interest of safety.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Tabora, YAY for Central Maine! AEP sends a letter ever 3-4 months recommending that we purchase their "service insurance," or whatever they call it. Essentially, they own the entrance wiring and meter, however, there is a ....$250....charge to disconnect and another to reconnect should something like you experienced happen. I think it's $8/month. Calling a licensed electrician won't help as they won't touch AEP wiring. So, $250 twice or $8/month. Reattaching things to your house, etc. isn't covered by the "insurance" get your electrician. Sigh, I think there was a time that state PUC's weren't in the pocket of the utilities they oversee.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

exmar said:


> Essentially, they own the entrance wiring and meter


In Maine, the utility owns everything up to the drop head where the mechanical connectors attach to the house service wiring, plus the meter itself. Everything else belongs to the homeowner.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

As per Iowagold"s advice, I am waiting for a electrical contractor to give me an estimate to install a Siemen's 200 amp exterior breaker between my main and the utility panel. My age is slowing me down from installing it myself.


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## sportplumber (Nov 16, 2019)

jkingrph said:


> I don't think you would call it a breaker, it has no circuit breakers involved. My electrician friend called it a double throw disconnect, rated 200 amps. Cannot remember the brand and it's raining now so don't want to go out and get wet. It was installed between my meter and the inside circuit breaker panel. It has three positions , up is input to house from power company, center is all off and down is input to house via an inlet plug we also installed to connect my big portable generator. We called the power company to disconnect the power lines so it could be wired in. Lady on the phone at the time said it might be next day to reconnect. When the lineman who came out saw what we were doing he gave us his cell phone # and said call when we were ready to reconnect and he would come back even if he was done for the day. Did not take that long and he came back and said he appreciated what we were doing in the interest of safety.


Maybe something like this:









GE 200 Amp 240-Volt Non-Fused Emergency Power Transfer Switch TC10324R - The Home Depot


Run your backup generator with the GE 200 Amp 240-Volt non-fused emergency power transfer switch. This emergency power transfer switch offers a NEMA type-3R metal enclosure for outdoor use. For use with



www.homedepot.com


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

sportplumber said:


> Maybe something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That would be exactly like mine, except the brand on mine is Cutler-Hammer. I don't remember paying nearly that price, I think my electrician friend arranged a better price at the electrical supply house.


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