# Honda EU6500IS with tri-fuel conversion



## PeterB123

Well, I was in the market to get a generator to replace my old one, and after some research, I decided to go with the Honda Eu6500is. I also decided to convert it to tri-fuel. However, when I Google searched to find any information, I was blown away by how little information (essentially none) that I could find. So I decided to share my story so that if anybody else is in the same boat, this may help.

I live on the Gulf Coast near Houston. I bought my first generator a couple of months before Hurricane Katrina. It was a gasoline 6500/5500 unit that I bought from a big box store for around $550. I used it off and on using extension cords to the refrigerator, freezer, etc for about 6 hours after Hurricane Rita and during a few local power outages.

Fast forward a number of years, and I was in a different house, and we just had a number of bad luck scenarios with storms, cars hitting power poles, etc where the generator was used about 8 times for a minimum of 2 hours in under a year. At that point, I hooked up the always frowned upon back-feed. I installed a plug on the side of my house next to the breaker box. I'd just wheel it out of the garage, turn off my main, turn off the breakers, plug in the gen, fire it up and then start turning on the desired breakers. This worked fine, but I couldn't do it during a storm that would knock out power. 

Then we had Hurricane Ike, and my house was without power for 17 days. Luckily the weather following the hurricane was relatively pleasant. We slept in one room which I had threw in a window a/c. It worked; however, the generator was really loud, finding gas became a problem, the gas costs were expensive, I was always worried about it getting stolen (even though it was locked up) and I worried about a storm in the middle of the night destroying it.

Well, before the beginning of the hurricane season (that just now is ending), I decided to make a change. I decided that I wanted to get a Honda quiet generator and a quick search showed me that I could get one with the same wattage. I also noticed on eBay that there were tri-fuel kits available. On a bit of an impulse, I went ahead and purchased my Honda EU6500is from the place that most campers go for the best deal (not sure if we can name names here or not). So, I got my generator new at the best price.

A few weeks after it arrived, I began looking for a tri-fuel kit. Since my natural gas line/meter was 8 feet from the breaker box and back-feed box, my plan was to pour a concrete slap with eye bolts (for locking up) where I could park the generator when needed and hook it up to the natural gas and house.

I searched for the kit, and ended up going through Maine Diesel (I think I'm safe here since they seem to be the only non-eBay dealer). Instead of sending in my carb, I bought the kit that came with the carb. 

The kit arrived, and I'll just tell you there are essentially no instructions.

While trying to figure out when I was going to install the kit, I began to think more about my project, which I should have formulated before this began. It wasn't long after Hurricane Ike that I ran a 50 amp 220 volt circuit out to my garage, because it only had 1 15 amp circuit out there, lol. I installed another panel in the garage (detached). I thought how nice it would be to back-feed from there where the generator could stay in the secure and dry garage. 

Of course, I had two problems. 1. Exhaust fumes. 2. Natural gas.

I found on eBay and exhaust kit build specifically for the eu6500is that essentially bolts a flexible exhaust pipe right on. I purchased it. Now, I'd be able to vent out the exhaust.

Next came the bigger problem. I had to run a natural gas line to the garage. The total run was about 110'. After I did some research, I found there was really nothing to it but the cost. I bought a 150' spool of the flexible plastic tubing designed for natural gas along with the two risers. The cost for all three was around $260. I then paid someone to dig a 20" deep trench the whole way (by hand) for $120. Then I bought the additional hardware, galvanized pipe, fittings, valves - another $135. At this point, I also decided to have an outlet for a natural gas grill, since it is right next to my patio.

So, now everything was in place, and I decided to hook up my kit.

Like I said, it came with no instructions, and Maine Diesel said they didn't have any but that I could ask their techies any questions I had. I looked online and found a YouTube video of a guy changing out the carb on a eu6500is. So, I used that as a guide. 

The kit was nice and had everything I needed (other than instructions). I did have to drill 3 holes in my generator (2 for mounting the regulator and 1 for routing the fuel line). The first time I did the kit (notice "first time"), it took me about an hour. There really isn't too much to hooking it up, in fact, it's pretty easy. It took me this long, because I wanted to make sure I was drilling in the areas that would be best functionally and esthetically. Additionally, there are a couple of clips that are difficult to get to and down right annoying to get back in place.

Well, I finally get the kit on and go to start it up for the first time. 

At this point, it was lucky that I had done my natural gas grill connection and bought the grill. When I first hooked up my grill, I could hear the gas flowing, but it just wouldn't light. Finally, I laughed at myself, and realized than it would take a little bit to purge the regular air out of the 110' of 1" gas line. Duhhh!!!

So, I start cranking and cranking (by battery of course) the generator and adjusting the regulator with no success.

One of my goals, was to never put gasoline in the tank or run it through the carb. I called the kit provider, and he said that maybe there was a problem with the generator since I didn't even know if it ran.

Well, I ended up putting gasoline in, and no starty. I was pissed. I'd have the generator for nearly 3 months, and now I had drilled holes in it. I knew the warranty was considered void, but felt that I could put the old carb on and maybe Honda wouldn't notice.

I put the old carb back on and removed the regulator and lines.

I'm glad the lines didn't take long to remove and attach, because once my brain fart cleared, I turned the key and fired up the generator. It ran like a champ, and purred like a kitten.

Did I make a mistake during my installation of the kit and not reconnect something? Well, one way to find out. I put it all back on and tried to start it. No luck.

So, I pulled off the carb and called Maine Diesel. 

About this time, there was a hurricane heading toward the gulf.

I told the guys at Maine Generator to send me a replacement carb immediately, and told them just to charge my credit card for it and then do a refund when they received the one I was returning back. I said I'd pay for rush delivery since the last thing I wanted was to be stuck on gasoline again if I got the hurricane. Needless to say, my return arrived to them before they even got my replacement out the door. Figures. Luckily for me, and not New Orleans, Louisiana got the storm.

The replacement carburetor showed up about a week later. I could immediately see this was a used carb, even though I had technically paid for a new one. But at this point, I just wanted it to be done, and I figured that at least, in theory, it was a working carb.

I bolted everything back on (15 minutes this time) and started it up. It ran rough, but after a few seconds of adjust the regulator (a single screw), it began purring like a kitten. I then turned off the auto-idle to get the engine revs up, and it ran a tiny bit rough until I did another 5 second adjustment. Now it purrs at any RPM. 

BTW, I did run all of the gasoline out of the tank.

I really wish I had video taped the kit installation to put on YouTube for others, but it's too late now.

It was definitely not a cheap project. Per dollar, I'm guessing I couldn't get a more pricey per watt return unless I had paid somebody to do all the work. That would have been crazy expensive.

I like the fact that it's still a portable generator on wheels that I could take anywhere and run on gas.

It would have definitely been cheaper to go with a 17KW natural gas generator for the whole home that would have ran one of my central a/c's, so I still wonder in my mind if I went the best route. Obvioiusly, it would NOT have been the same in terms of quality and reliability as the Honda, but since it's just for emergencies, it's still a tough call.

I'll post what photos I have now, which, unfortunately, does not include the kit installation process. 

If anybody has any questions, just let me know.

Additionally, I take criticism well, so if you think I'm an idiot for the cost, backfeeding, installing my own natural gas or sub-panel, just voice your thoughts, because it won't hurt my feelings.


----------



## PeterB123

Here are the following photos: carb with ng line, riser off gas main, riser into garage, gas connections, exhaust kit, exhaust vent, gen.


----------



## Tumbleweed

Thank you for that - I joined the forum just to be able to see your pics, and it was well worth it.
I have the same generator, and the same tri-fuel kit (from the same source). I've been hesitant to install it due to the sparse instructions, just as you were. Your post and pics will make it easier.

Have you tried yours on propane? I'm wondering how many hours one would get out of a 20# tank? I have used mine with gasoline, and get an honest 14 hours out of a fill with a modest load, but I don't like to use gasoline due to storage issues and the gas going stale so quickly.
Again, thanks for your input!


----------



## PeterB123

I have not run it on propane as of yet. At some point, I'll get a hose so that I can try it out and have the option in the future.

If you have any questions, need advise or need any pictures to help with your install, let me know and I'll do what I can.

The installation really isn't that tough (assuming there are no issues with the carb). I think the most important thing is going slow and making sure you don't drop any screws or clips, because they are hard to get. One thing I'd recommend is buying one of those little extending probes with the magnet on the end. I dropped 2 clips and a bolt, and they would have been very hard to snag without the magnet. I'd also recommend getting a little light that straps to your forehead since an overhead light won't reach the areas you'll be working in and drop lights seem to always flop into the wrong position.


----------



## echo4747

I also joined this forum to see your pics. I was wondering if you can elaborate on the difficulty or ease of the carb removal and reinstallation. I hope to purchase the tri-fuel kit from the same place as you ... (since my eu6500is is used i will need to send my existing carb in to have them drill it it. ) Are you able to link to the video you saw on youtube thats shows carb removal? One other question when the unit is operating on nat gas with little to no load does the unit automatically lower the rpm (eco throttle) just like it does running on unleaded gasoline?
Thanks in advance


----------



## aandpdan

Here's some criticism.

Get yourself a proper transfer switch or interlock and use it. You have an accident waiting to happen. What happens when you're tired, or maybe had a few, and need to fire up or disconnect the generator? That suicide cord is an accident waiting to happen too.

Or, maybe you're not home but your kids are. They've seen Dad hook it up and want to do the same.

That yellow line you have for the natural gas, replace it with something that can take the vibration. It's one thing to use it for a stove but a whole different story to use it in something that vibrates. If you move the generator more than a few times it'll work harden and leak. 

Running it in the garage, albeit a detached garage, is not smart. Never run a small engine in an enclosed area. Your exhaust system can leak and you don't smell CO.

Sorry, I don't approve of this or your post. Someone else may think that if you got away with it that they can too.

Is any of this inspected? I thought not.


----------



## Tumbleweed

As always, constructive criticism from an articulate well mannered poster is always appreciated.

Perhaps one will join the thread at some point.


----------



## echo4747

Question regarding manual transfer switch. Do i need to use a 3PDT (switching the neutral) Or can I use a DPDT (switching only the hots)?


----------



## aandpdan

Echo, it depends on the generator.

If the neutral is bonded to the frame you need to switch the neutral.


----------



## echo4747

aandpdan said:


> Echo, it depends on the generator.
> 
> If the neutral is bonded to the frame you need to switch the neutral.


generator is the honda eu6500is. the neutral and ground are NOT bonded in the generator, however in my home panel neutral and ground are bonded. I'm thinking a DPDT switch is the way to go (just swithing the hot leads)




on a seperate topic... do you know if it is acceptable to use a flexible metal conduit as a ground for a subpanel (I know the sub panel must have 4 wires and the ground and neutral be kept separate)


----------



## aandpdan

The neutral and ground bond in the main panel is correct, and it should be the only bond. You don't need to switch the neutral.

Check with your AHJ. You're limited to 6' if using flexible metal conduit as an equipment ground. NEC 250.118(5) lists the requirements.


----------



## jra

*did the same exact thing*

I had purchased the Honda EM7000 which turned into the EU6500, it was the largest inverter quiet one the sold some 5 or 6 years ago and yes by the time I ran the gas line and put in transfer box and bought trifuel kit from same place, it was a few pennies, BUT, this thing has never let me down, NEVER, I know 2 people who didn't spend that much less on some Home Depot natural gas model after installation and they constantly have problems, mine a little more work, to to wheel into place, but it always works, mine sits on the back deck and in front of the house, you hear other generators 5 houses down, before mine. and i just honestly don't think I will have a problem the next 10 years. We live in an area with everyone on well water, people who gave me crap on buying a Honda, or for spending so much money on 6000 watts, are the same people that have one time or another came to me for water because their genny broke down. I have no regrets, but it is not as quiet as it used to be, what is that muffler thing your talking about?



PeterB123 said:


> Well, I was in the market to get a generator to replace my old one, and after some research, I decided to go with the Honda Eu6500is. I also decided to convert it to tri-fuel. However, when I Google searched to find any information, I was blown away by how little information (essentially none) that I could find. So I decided to share my story so that if anybody else is in the same boat, this may help.
> 
> 
> 
> I found on eBay and exhaust kit build specifically for the eu6500is that essentially bolts a flexible exhaust pipe right on. I purchased it. Now, I'd be able to vent out the exhaust.
> 
> Next came the bigger problem. I had to run a natural gas line to the garage. The total run was about 110'. After I did some research, I found there was really nothing to it but the cost. I bought a 150' spool of the flexible plastic tubing designed for natural gas along with the two risers. The cost for all three was around $260. I then paid someone to dig a 20" deep trench the whole way (by hand) for $120. Then I bought the additional hardware, galvanized pipe, fittings, valves - another $135. At this point, I also decided to have an outlet for a natural gas grill, since it is right next to my patio.
> 
> So, now everything was in place, and I decided to hook up my kit.
> 
> Like I said, it came with no instructions, and Maine Diesel said they didn't have any but that I could ask their techies any questions I had. I looked online and found a YouTube video of a guy changing out the carb on a eu6500is. So, I used that as a guide.
> 
> The kit was nice and had everything I needed (other than instructions). I did have to drill 3 holes in my generator (2 for mounting the regulator and 1 for routing the fuel line). The first time I did the kit (notice "first time"), it took me about an hour. There really isn't too much to hooking it up, in fact, it's pretty easy. It took me this long, because I wanted to make sure I was drilling in the areas that would be best functionally and esthetically. Additionally, there are a couple of clips that are difficult to get to and down right annoying to get back in place.
> 
> Well, I finally get the kit on and go to start it up for the first time.
> 
> At this point, it was lucky that I had done my natural gas grill connection and bought the grill. When I first hooked up my grill, I could hear the gas flowing, but it just wouldn't light. Finally, I laughed at myself, and realized than it would take a little bit to purge the regular air out of the 110' of 1" gas line. Duhhh!!!
> 
> So, I start cranking and cranking (by battery of course) the generator and adjusting the regulator with no success.
> 
> One of my goals, was to never put gasoline in the tank or run it through the carb. I called the kit provider, and he said that maybe there was a problem with the generator since I didn't even know if it ran.
> 
> Well, I ended up putting gasoline in, and no starty. I was pissed. I'd have the generator for nearly 3 months, and now I had drilled holes in it. I knew the warranty was considered void, but felt that I could put the old carb on and maybe Honda wouldn't notice.
> 
> I put the old carb back on and removed the regulator and lines.
> 
> I'm glad the lines didn't take long to remove and attach, because once my brain fart cleared, I turned the key and fired up the generator. It ran like a champ, and purred like a kitten.
> 
> Did I make a mistake during my installation of the kit and not reconnect something? Well, one way to find out. I put it all back on and tried to start it. No luck.
> 
> So, I pulled off the carb and called Maine Diesel.
> 
> About this time, there was a hurricane heading toward the gulf.
> 
> I told the guys at Maine Generator to send me a replacement carb immediately, and told them just to charge my credit card for it and then do a refund when they received the one I was returning back. I said I'd pay for rush delivery since the last thing I wanted was to be stuck on gasoline again if I got the hurricane. Needless to say, my return arrived to them before they even got my replacement out the door. Figures. Luckily for me, and not New Orleans, Louisiana got the storm.
> 
> The replacement carburetor showed up about a week later. I could immediately see this was a used carb, even though I had technically paid for a new one. But at this point, I just wanted it to be done, and I figured that at least, in theory, it was a working carb.
> 
> I bolted everything back on (15 minutes this time) and started it up. It ran rough, but after a few seconds of adjust the regulator (a single screw), it began purring like a kitten. I then turned off the auto-idle to get the engine revs up, and it ran a tiny bit rough until I did another 5 second adjustment. Now it purrs at any RPM.
> 
> BTW, I did run all of the gasoline out of the tank.
> 
> I really wish I had video taped the kit installation to put on YouTube for others, but it's too late now.
> 
> It was definitely not a cheap project. Per dollar, I'm guessing I couldn't get a more pricey per watt return unless I had paid somebody to do all the work. That would have been crazy expensive.
> 
> I like the fact that it's still a portable generator on wheels that I could take anywhere and run on gas.
> 
> It would have definitely been cheaper to go with a 17KW natural gas generator for the whole home that would have ran one of my central a/c's, so I still wonder in my mind if I went the best route. Obvioiusly, it would NOT have been the same in terms of quality and reliability as the Honda, but since it's just for emergencies, it's still a tough call.
> 
> I'll post what photos I have now, which, unfortunately, does not include the kit installation process.
> 
> If anybody has any questions, just let me know.
> 
> Additionally, I take criticism well, so if you think I'm an idiot for the cost, backfeeding, installing my own natural gas or sub-panel, just voice your thoughts, because it won't hurt my feelings.


----------



## PeterB123

echo4747 said:


> I also joined this forum to see your pics. I was wondering if you can elaborate on the difficulty or ease of the carb removal and reinstallation. I hope to purchase the tri-fuel kit from the same place as you ... (since my eu6500is is used i will need to send my existing carb in to have them drill it it. ) Are you able to link to the video you saw on youtube thats shows carb removal? One other question when the unit is operating on nat gas with little to no load does the unit automatically lower the rpm (eco throttle) just like it does running on unleaded gasoline?
> Thanks in advance


Sorry for the delay.

The carb removal and reinstallation is fairly simple, IMHO. 

The only tough part are those pesky 2 clips.

I'll see if I can locate that video and post a link.

Yes, on natural gas eco throttle acts just like it does on gasoline.


----------



## PeterB123

Found it.






This will get you past those clips for the air box. Once you get the air box cover off, it's easy at that point. At least until it's time to put those clips back on.


----------



## PeterB123

aandpdan said:


> Here's some criticism.
> 
> Get yourself a proper transfer switch or interlock and use it. You have an accident waiting to happen. What happens when you're tired, or maybe had a few, and need to fire up or disconnect the generator? That suicide cord is an accident waiting to happen too.
> 
> Or, maybe you're not home but your kids are. They've seen Dad hook it up and want to do the same.
> 
> That yellow line you have for the natural gas, replace it with something that can take the vibration. It's one thing to use it for a stove but a whole different story to use it in something that vibrates. If you move the generator more than a few times it'll work harden and leak.
> 
> Running it in the garage, albeit a detached garage, is not smart. Never run a small engine in an enclosed area. Your exhaust system can leak and you don't smell CO.
> 
> Sorry, I don't approve of this or your post. Someone else may think that if you got away with it that they can too.
> 
> Is any of this inspected? I thought not.


I appreciate your comments.

I'll address each real fast.

As far as the switch goes, I have a ton of "accidents waiting to happen" all over the place, especially if I'm tired or have been drinking. I have a drill press, I have a table saw, I have a circular saw, etc. etc. The steps are very simple and safe to do it right. If you cut off your main, followed by each breaker, plug in the cord (both sides), start the generator, and then start turning on your breakers for the stuff you'll use, it's perfectly safe. Are at least as safe, or probably more, than things like welding. I'm sure that it would be very dangerous for people who just follow the steps with no understanding of it, but if you have the knowledge, it's not a problem, IMHO.

My kids see me driving my car, boat, jetskis, etc. etc. They know not to touch the generator, but there are dangers for them everywhere. And since this thing may be fired up to use once or twice a year, I'm not going to sweat it.

The good thing about CO is that they sell CO detectors. I happen to have 2 of them in my garage since I work on jetskis, lawnmowers, etc. The reason I have two is for that safety redundancy; plus, the "test" switch tests the alarm and not the sensor. Additionally, I won't be staying the night in my garage, and if I'm in there for an extended period, I'd have the passage door open and the garage door at least partially up. But with the CO alarms, it doesn't matter that I can't smell the CO.

BTW, I'm running under the assumption that the vast majority of people coming to this forum are not your guys who are calling a wrecker to change their flat tires or an electrician to install a ceiling fan. There is no way I'd recommend my setup to either of my two brother-in-laws who take their cars in to have brake light bulbs changed. 

Now, on to that hose. I would like to hear more about why you believe it is a hazard. Can you show me anything documenting that those hoses harden? I know that is the same type of hose used on my gas dryer. I know that my gas dryer vibrates. I know that every so often, I pull out my dryer to sweep behind it or check the exhaust hose for lint buildup. If you can show me something, I'll be changing it out to another type. Which type do you recommend?

Finally, on to the subject of inspections. Did I have this inspected? ROFLMAO. I can say this, I trust the majority of my installations that I'll be using for years to come over the guy wanting to get the check and get to the next customer asap. It reminds me of when I had my gas line tapped out my old house for an in-ground grill that was being installed. After he gets the tap in and is about to move on, I ask him if he's going to spray it with a soap solution to check for leaks, and he responded (maybe not the exact words), "I use to be an inspector, so I know my work is good." He gave me the most pissed off look you could imagine when I came out of the house with a spray bottle and checked it. Now, maybe he was lying about being an inspector, but I have to question why somebody would work for the city as an inspector for a fraction of what they'd make doing the actual installations.

If you disagree with me, no problem, but I do like the fact that you gave your opinion and added to the discussion. So thanks again. Oh, and let me know about that pipe issue please.


----------



## aandpdan

Peter,

What you do in your own home is fine by me. I have no issues with any of that but please don't give someone else the idea that this is an acceptable (as in approved) means of hooking up a generator. 

For the hose, get a flexible hose, not a gas line. You can find them here: 

Hook-Up Hoses 

You might also consider some of the quick disconnects, just like an airline disconnect, so you can move the generator easily if you had too.

Being metal, the gas line you have can/will work harden. Sure a dryer vibrates some but not as much as your generator. Check out a professionally installed backup generator - some of the whole house systems. They are mounted to a pad and obviously don't move but the fuel line will have a short length of flexible hose in line with it.

I do agree with you on "inspections." In my town inspections are nothing more than a way to make money. The inspections themselves are a joke.

Thanks for tone of your reply. I know my criticism was harsh. Remember, I know nothing about your abilities and don't want someone that isn't at your level to "try it."


----------



## PeterB123

aandpdan said:


> Peter,
> 
> What you do in your own home is fine by me. I have no issues with any of that but please don't give someone else the idea that this is an acceptable (as in approved) means of hooking up a generator.
> 
> For the hose, get a flexible hose, not a gas line. You can find them here:
> 
> Hook-Up Hoses
> 
> You might also consider some of the quick disconnects, just like an airline disconnect, so you can move the generator easily if you had too.
> 
> Being metal, the gas line you have can/will work harden. Sure a dryer vibrates some but not as much as your generator. Check out a professionally installed backup generator - some of the whole house systems. They are mounted to a pad and obviously don't move but the fuel line will have a short length of flexible hose in line with it.
> 
> I do agree with you on "inspections." In my town inspections are nothing more than a way to make money. The inspections themselves are a joke.
> 
> Thanks for tone of your reply. I know my criticism was harsh. Remember, I know nothing about your abilities and don't want someone that isn't at your level to "try it."


I respect your opinion on the issue, and you are correct, this method is not for the majority of people out there.

I'll be swapping out that hose based upon your recommendation.

Have a great Thanksgiving.


----------



## PeterB123

jra said:


> what is that muffler thing your talking about?


enclosure exhaust components


----------



## bluejay

> I'll be swapping out that hose based upon your recommendation.


Very good choice. My friend installed hook up hoses on his propane range because he cleans behind it several times a year. He procrastinated a long time because the copper was working, however, he knew it was not ideal and wanted to change it. He did the same for a propane fridge. You need to get behind and clean and service these things periodically.


----------



## cadbob

*EU6500is tri fuel converion*

I just bought an EU6500is Living 12 days with no power after sandy the Coleman Powermate I had proved TOO noise (and thirsty) so I took the plunge and bought the Honda. I've been interested in the tri fuel converion kits available but was scared off by the local power equipment shop owner who claims they run too hot and destroy the engine. (quote, unquote) Hoping you guys can weigh in and shed some light on this.


----------



## Dqalex

I just bought a EU6500is too. I've had an Interlock on my home for a number of years with an outside plug. Here in NJ we were 5 days without power. I saw the kit online to vent outside. Me I just won't do it. The porch or alley behind the fence is good enough for me. One thing about a storm is most times you get a few days 
warning to prepare. After the storm I bought a 29 gallon gas carrier from pro bass shop. That will stay empty in my garage until I get a warning about a storm. I have a few other gas cans. I will be able to run at least a week on what I can store. The EU6500 is very fuel efficient. I just can't see drilling holes in my new Generator and killing my warrantee. I wish you luck with your project. The EU6500 is a great generator. I plan to buy two 2000i Honda's a link them up as a backup to my EU6500. I'm hooked on inverter generator's now thanks to Honda.


----------



## PeterB123

cadbob said:


> I just bought an EU6500is Living 12 days with no power after sandy the Coleman Powermate I had proved TOO noise (and thirsty) so I took the plunge and bought the Honda. I've been interested in the tri fuel converion kits available but was scared off by the local power equipment shop owner who claims they run too hot and destroy the engine. (quote, unquote) Hoping you guys can weigh in and shed some light on this.


I bought my EU6500is due to my experience with my EU200IS. I selected that after reading about generators on some of the camping forums. All of the "serious" campers use the Honda inverter type generators. I knew that people were running them on propane, but it wasn't until I saw the tri-fuel option that I began doing a bit more research. I went back to the camping forums and looked at posts from people who were running off of propane and IM'd them to see how their generators were doing. I'm IM'd 3 or 4 people who had been going on 3+ years of propane use on a very regular basis. Each one of them said they had no issues related to running on propane. Additionally, I didn't find a single post anywhere where someone has had an issue they thought may have been caused by running on propane.

Now, keep in mind that these people were running the 2000 and not the 6500, but I'm not thinking there should be that much of a difference. Additionally, if you buy a pre-converted 6500, the company gives them a warranty. 

I do know that CNG burns cleaner than gasoline.

But, the conversion will void your warranty.


----------



## Robert Coats

PeterB123 said:


> I do know that CNG burns cleaner than gasoline.
> 
> But, the conversion will void your warranty.


CNG and propane also burn hotter than gasoline. 

Honda used to sell a 4,000 watt generator fully configured from the Honda factory to run on propane only. It had different (more heat-resistant) exhaust valve and guide, as the engineers told me the regular valve and guide would prematurely fail due to the higher heat.

Converting a Honda generator to run on a non-gasoline fuel will NOT "void your warranty." Technically, nothing can void a warranty. What can happen is if there is a failure during the warranty period that is proven to be caused by modification, Honda will not pay for repairs. 

So, let's say you converted a Honda generator to run on propane, and 1 year into the warranty it started to leak oil. The dealer and possibly the Honda service rep would inspect the unit, and if the oil leak was not due to anything related to the conversion and was clearly a factory defect, Honda would pay for the repairs under the terms of the warranty.

But, if there was an exhaust valve failure, it would seem clear the higher heat of running propane was the source of the problem, and such a repair would not be covered under the warranty. Again, the warranty can never be voided, but modifications that lead to failures are not covered.

Finally, just so it's clear, the US EPA has regulations that prohibit any changes to the emissions (this means fuel, exhaust, etc.) systems on any small gas engine equipment certified for use in the USA. This is considered "tampering" and subject to EPA fines/enforcement. While the conversion parts suppliers might state their kits are "EPA certified" all that means is the individual parts are approved by the EPA. What isn't "approved" is modified engine; this is again considered tampering by the EPA, even if "approved" parts are used. Bottom line? It's the engine as a whole that is certified at the time of sale. If Honda sells it and the certification is based on unleaded gasoline, that's it. Nothing else is permitted. Now if a conversion company installs a propane kit, they would technically need to submit to re-certification by an EPA approved lab. Once the new "propane" certification is obtained, then yes, it could be legally sold/used in the USA.

Of course, it's unlikely a EPA enforcement official is going to start inspecting private citizens' generators for signs of tampering. The EPA tends to concentrate enforcement at the manufacturing and distribution levels. I have never heard of a single private citizen being fined for using a "tampered" engine. It's possible, but unlikely. More probable is the EPA busting an importer with a shipping container full of engines with fake EPA certification labels on them.

[email protected]
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.


----------



## PeterB123

Just a quick FYI for anybody who converts their Hondas over to tri-fuel.

I start my gen every two to three weeks just to make sure its running and to allow it to throw a little lubricant around as well as give the starting battery a charge. 

Well, Sunday night we had a cold front come through Houston which dropped the temperature about 40 degrees are so. We had a good amount of wind and lost power a couple of time throughout the evening. The next day, when I got home from work I decided to fire up the Honda since it had been a couple of weeks. The last time I ran it was on a Saturday in the afternoon and probably around 80 degrees are so. Monday evening it was around 42. 

The generator refused to start after a few tries. I knew something wasn't right. I splashed some gas into the tank and started it on that. After a couple of cranks to get the fuel into the carb, it fired right up. I switched over to natural gas and it puttered out. My next instinct was to play with the adjustment of the regulator. So, I loosened the nut that secures the adjustment in place and leaned it out (I believe I leaned it, but since the adjustment screw did turn when I loosened as I gave the locking nut a few turns, I'm not positive about that, but the main thing is that I did need to adjust it). I tried starting it and it fired up, but if was rough. I then adjusted the regulator until it smoothed out. Then I switched it off Eco mode and made sure it was smooth at full RPM.

The moral of this story is that apparently as the weather conditions change so does the adjustment to the regulator. I'm guess that the cold weather made the diaphragm, or whatever controls the flow, to stiffen or tighten up.

So, if you have a 6500 on natural gas or propane and it won't start, think about if the weather has changed much and try adjusting the regulator.


----------



## Dqalex

Peter, Do you notice any power loss running on natural gas? I've seen ratings on Generators, (Generac's) for instance that put out less power on natural gas, VS propane, VS gasoline.


----------



## PeterB123

Dqalex said:


> Peter, Do you notice any power loss running on natural gas? I've seen ratings on Generators, (Generac's) for instance that put out less power on natural gas, VS propane, VS gasoline.


Honestly, I just don't know. I have not tested it to see. 

From everything I've read, you can expect a 10% reduction in power generation. I don't know that this is true, but I've read it a whole lot.

I did the conversion under the assumption that I'd see a drop to 5000 watts from 5500 watts based upon this. (I can't substantiate that it's true).

I will say that you will see a drop in the potential HP of the engine. That's just a fact due to the energy released from the type of fuel. However, it's not the engine that creates the electricity, but the generator. If you think about the most basic generator, with less HP, the engine will spin the generator slower at maximum output causing a reduction of electrical output. Now, is there something about Honda such as the engine having more HP than necessary for that generator and that it senses the load and increases enough to make up for the difference? I don't know.

For me the decision came down to this: Would I rather have a 5500 watt generator that required gasoline or a 5000 watt generator running off a natural gas line which would not require me having fuel on hand or having to wait in massive lines post hurricane? For me personally, the potential loss (although not known by me if it's actual) is worth it.


----------



## Jackruf

I am awaiting the delivery of my EU6500. (Purchased from Harbor Cycle per a recommendation on this forum and got an outstanding deal). 

I previously owned a 5000W older Generac that I converted to natural gas using the US Carb kit. I was quite pleased with it. Can anyone chime in on experience/preference regarding the US Carb Type C or the CMD conversion kit for the EU6500?

Thanks


----------



## Robert Coats

PeterB123 said:


> Now, is there something about Honda such as the engine having more HP than necessary for that generator and that it senses the load and increases enough to make up for the difference? I don't know.


All Honda EU-series models will hold the throttle at idle, and then increase engine speed to produce enough power to rotate the generator so the needed about of current is supplied. At full or maximum load, the throttle may be opened all the way. Typically, maximum horsepower is achieved at or near the full throttle opening, so maximum current (wattage) is also reached at wide open throttle. An electronic governor prevents the engine from running to fast (<3,700 rpm). 

In contrast, a traditional generator will try and maintain 3,600 rpm when a load is applied, as this is necessary on these types to maintain a steady 60hz frequency. The throttle will still open and close per the load, but not as much as an inverter-type design generator.

Bottom line is you'll enjoy greater fuel savings, longer run times, less noise, and less wear-and-tear on the engine with an inverter type generator, even if it's running on propane or natural gas.

[email protected]
_Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


----------



## PeterB123

Robert, does the EU6500 run at that 3,700 rpm to get that 5500 watts? Or does it run less than that leaving extra "motor power" to spare so that if the unit is running on natural gas it can still achieve 5500 watts through the generator? (Sorry for the poor wording, but I'm guessing you know what I'm asking)


----------



## Robert Coats

PeterB123 said:


> Robert, does the EU6500 run at that 3,700 rpm to get that 5500 watts? Or does it run less than that leaving extra "motor power" to spare so that if the unit is running on natural gas it can still achieve 5500 watts through the generator? (Sorry for the poor wording, but I'm guessing you know what I'm asking)


It can be close, depending on the environment. At sea level, with outdoor temps below 50 degrees, the engine and genset work more efficiently. To make 5,550 watts in that situation may only require 75% throttle. However, at 5,000 feet up on a hot, humid day, the engine may need close to 100% throttle to make the same amount of power. Heat is the single biggest factor that effect efficiency in a generator.

Generally, the designers are usually conservative. Even in extreme heat (>95 F), most Honda generators can achieve maximum output for short periods of time, and almost always can provide rated output for as long as there is fuel to burn. 

[email protected]
_Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


----------



## PeterB123

Thank you for that information Robert, that is good to know that I may actually get my 5500 watts on natural gas (I'm at sea level and it's only about 50 days out of the year above 95)


----------



## PeterB123

So, Sunday morning we had a storm blow through that knocked out power for an hour. 

I waited about 5 minutes to see if the power would quickly return, and when it didn't, I went through my procedures to get going.

When I went to fire up the Honda on natural gas, it wouldn't start. If you read my post from about a week ago, you'll see my report of when the temperature drop caused my regulator not to be properly adjusted.

Well, it had warmed up since then, and the same issue occurred. I had to adjust the regulator again in order to run from natural gas.

It wasn't a big issue for me, since I immediately knew what the issue was, but here is the catch. If you don't keep your battery in really good shape, you could easily end up draining it too low to start while getting your regulator properly adjusted.

I've also found that the easiest way to get it adjusted is by starting it on gasoline and then switching it to natural gas. When it switches to natural gas, it starts to putter and then I quickly make the adjustment to get it running properly. 

So here is my new procedure for maintaining and starting my generator. I'll keep a small amount of treated (blue Stabil) gasoline in the generator gas tank. I'll start the generator on that gas, switch to natural gas and make the regulator adjustments and continue running on natural gas until the generator is no longer needed. When I exercise my generator every two or three weeks, I'll run it on gasoline for a little bit and then replenish the small amount with new fresh gas. Every couple of months, I may do a switch to natural gas just to run it through the lines. Obviously, I will not "switch on" power until I have swapped to natural gas and tuned the regulator.

Here is my reasoning. I'm fearful that I may kill my battery trying to get it started on natural gas if there has been a temperature change since my last adjustment. I also do not want to unnecessarily put additional stress on the Honda's electric starter. 

Do I wish that I didn't have to go through these steps and just be 100% natural gas? Yes. Knowing what I know now, would I still do the conversion? Yes.


----------



## PeterB123

Oh, and for the record, I did get the Honda up and running and it operated flawlessly. My wife was happy to have lights in the bathroom and the ability to make coffee, and my kids were happy to have their cartoons.


----------



## Dqalex

Nice Peter. Its a great feeling to have power and look outside and see darkness up and down the street. I get a sense of accomplishment.


----------



## PeterB123

I figured it wouldn't hurt to post an instant message I received along with my reply.

:

Hello Peter, I just purchased an EU6500IS and would like to convert it to tri fuel. Can you refer me to the Youtube link showing the removal of the Carburator? Also, any thoughts on the USCarb vs the Maine Diesel setup? I had good luck in the past with the USCarb tri fuel set up on a simple Generac.

Thank you

----------------------------------



Just go to this video (ignore the title) 



 and follow what he does until 4:23 in the video. You stop PRIOR to removing the bolt for the valve cover.

At this point, you just have to remove, I believe, 2 bolts that hold in the carb. Once you get to this point, it will be completely obvious how to get the carb out. You have the 2 bolts and then clips holding on 3 hoses. Like I said, once you get to the point where the air box is out, it's simple.

From my understanding, the USCarbs kit converts your generator to natural gas and doesn't allow you to run on gasoline after the conversion.

I don't know if you read my most recent posts, but I have found that whenever the weather changes you MUST adjust the regulator for natural gas. I have also found from first hand experience, it's much easier to start it on gasoline and then switch to natural gas in order to get it running and make the reg adjustment easiest without putting unnecessary strain on your battery and starter. This is possible with the Maine Diesel kit, but I don't believe it would be so with the US Carbs kit.

IMHO, there is no way I would consider the US Carb kit due to my first hand experience in dealing with the regulator adjustments I've had to make with the Maine Diesel kit.

Now, does the US Carb kit have a better setup where the regulator doesn't have to be adjusted like the one I received from Maine Diesel, I don't know. But unless I had somebody with first hand experience on using the US Carb kit through changing weather (not just the situation where they adjusted it, and started it without any issue while temps are within 15 to 20 degrees but 40 or 50 degrees change) experience, I wouldn't risk being the one to discover it. Additionally, I wouldn't want to limit myself to not having a gasoline option.

The biggest issue in making these decisions is that there is so little information out there on this particular model of Honda with the conversions. Which is why I decided to post my experiences.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Tumbleweed

I wonder if we could be lucky enough to have someone from Maine Diesel join this thread...we could probably learn a lot.


----------



## datspnkrok

*"yellow line"*

Hi everyone,
I just converted my eu6500is to tri-fuel. It worked with propane as a test and I am going to get the parts to set it up for Natural Gas.

I was wondering what did you reduce your 1" gas line to for the hook up (yellow flex pipe)?

It says 3/8" on central main diesel website, but is that for gasoline?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## aandpdan

Do not use yellow flex pipe. Get a hose made for use with gas. It will have threaded ends on it. The flex pipe is not meant to be moved around much and it will break.

You can get quick disconnects for your gas line, much like air line disconnects. They come in various sizes to match your existing line size or you can use a reducer.

You can get them here: A and C Kit Accessories

A little clarification about the US Carbs kit:

I have their kit. In over 5 years since the initial calibration, I haven't had to adjust the regulator once. They also have a tri-fuel kit that will allow you to run it on gasoline as well as propane/natural gas.


----------



## datspnkrok

Ok, I will buy the appropriate hose.. is it 3/8" though?

Also, I am having a problem getting the generator to run. I thought I had it running with Propane, but obviously we did not test it long enough. It turns on, then dies every time. The only way to keep it on is to keep the purge/prime button on the regulator pushed in, otherwise it dies. 

I've tried this with both eco mode on and off.

Any suggestions?

1" pipe going down to 3/4" pipe for about 40' then to a 1/2" MIP ->3/8" Flare yellow line (FOR TESTING). I think I am OK with the piping. 
It seems that the fuel suction is not pulling the regulator valve open..hence i need to keep the priming button pushed in for it to be fed fuel.

I've tweaked the block and found the sweet spot, however, it always kicks on then dies or, as stated above, it will remain on and run when the button is pushed in.

Based on central main diesel's website/instructions (or lack their of) there are no indications to touch to valve at the bottom of the regulator (and it is very tight) so I didn't want to touch it, thinking it might affect the NG or LP gas pressure it is set at.. 

Please let me know if anyone needs and additional information and thanks in advance.

~Dats


----------



## datspnkrok

Peter, when you say adjusting the regulator, are you referring to the load block above the regulator itself or the valve (flathead) piece just above the NG input?

My NG connected eu6500 is dying after it starts up. Meaning, I press the prime button on the backside, it fires up then dies. If I keep the prime button pressed it continues running. I am trying to get central maine diesel on the phone (they open at 8am says their voice machine, it's now 8:45!) Hopefully this is just a tweak and not a bad regulator????

Thanks in advance.


----------



## datspnkrok

*Running on NG!*

Ok, were able to get the EU6500is running on NG. 

We tapped into a 1" and ran about 40' of 3/4" down to outside the garage. There we had the 3/8" flare connection.

We initially had problems getting the NG to give a flow because we had to press and keep pressed the primer button on the back of the regulator.

Playing with the load block got us to a sweet spot, but it was still dying. 

We finally got Central Maine Diesel on the phone and he informed us of the other valve that regulates that prime button. Directly above the inlet of the NG or LPG there is another brass screw. You need to COMPLETELY remove this one, and then there is another one underneath it that tweaks the prime button strength/resistance. A few counter-clockwise turns and we loosened it and the generator stopped dying but was running rough. A quick modification up top on the load block and we were purring nicely at 3300 RPMs with ECO off and 2400 RPMs with ECO on (Same as running on gasoline)

Thanks everyone for your help and Central Maine Diesel for the kit http://www.generatorsales.com. Back to repairing Point Pleasant Beach, NJ from Hurricane Sandy.

Cheers,

Build it.
Build it. Home


----------



## ArubaRico

*I too have a problem*

I have a Honda em3800 sx. I purchased a tri fuel kit from png technologies. I installed the kit and I can get it to run. We can start it but only with keeping the purge valve depressed. It diesels and sputters. I am using lp. 3/4 pipe reduced to 1/2 It runs prefect on gas


----------



## Robert Coats

FYI, Honda used to have a propane-fueled generator, the EM6000GP. It has been discontinued for 8+ years (propane was, back then, much more costly that gasoline). 

A few lessons learned running a 4kw generator off LPG:

1. The LPG must have at least 95% pure propane content.
2. Outlet pressure (engine OFF) must be 11" ±2" w.c. (water column, e.g., pressure required to push a column of water up a tube 11 inches) 
3. Supply pressure must be 7" ± w.c. or more when engine is running at full load.
4. Supply volume must be 0.95 cubic meter per hour (34 cubic feet per hour)
5. Capacity of supply tank must be 150,000 BTU per hour. This is not possible from a standard 20lb. propane tank. 
6. For the Honda 4kw unit, Honda says a "tall boy" 33 lbs. propane tank is required. This is to ensure there's enough flow/pressure to supply the engine in a range of operating temps.

A few more tips I gleamed from the set-up instructions:

The supply line must be 1/2" I.D., and no longer than 39 feet, OR 3/8" I.D., 6.5 ft.
The supply line must terminate with a 1/2" NPT fitting (for this model)
Be sure the supply tank is kept upright, and away from any heat source, including the generator and its exhaust.
If other LPG devices share the supply line, confirm pressures required can be maintained when the generator is running. 

In cold conditions, the pressure of any propane tank will drop, so a larger tank is often required to provide necessary pressure & volume to supply the engine. 

I'll bet everything from the regulator, tank, fittings, etc. all impact the above, and can cause issued when trying to run an LPG-fueled generator in cold ambient temps.

[email protected]
_Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone._


----------



## PeterB123

ArubaRico said:


> I have a Honda em3800 sx. I purchased a tri fuel kit from png technologies. I installed the kit and I can get it to run. We can start it but only with keeping the purge valve depressed. It diesels and sputters. I am using lp. 3/4 pipe reduced to 1/2 It runs prefect on gas


And you've tried adjusting the regulator without success?


----------



## ArubaRico

My bad it is with ng that aim having this problem with


----------



## datspnkrok

*Purge Valve depressed OK - Fix Explained*

ArubaRico,
there is a flat head screw JUST above your NG intake (or somewhere on your regulator if you did not purchase your tri-fuel from generatorsales.com Central Maine Diesel). 
I'm not talking about the load block, i'm talking about another valved that actually regulates the your purge valve. I had the same thing with my NG. you have to completely remove this screw, and there is another screw beneath it that actually adjusts the purge valve strength. 

I adjusted mine then tweaked the load block slightly and she was up and purring. I post the vid at http://builditbb.com/trifuel/trifuelvid_sm.mp4 (4MB)


----------



## aandpdan

Please tell me that gas line installation was inspected. 

They make quick disconnects, like you'd find on an air hose but bigger, that you can use. Get rid of the flexible metal line and get a rubber hose for it that is approved for gas. Those lines are not meant to be put on/off repeatedly and can fatigue.

This page has everything I'm talking about: A and C Kit Accessories

Odds are the 3/8 flex line is what your problem is. You can't move enough flow through the line.


----------



## graymac

I have an EU6500is with the Maine Diesel conversion to tri-fuel, and have discovered 
it is very difficult to start in cold weather on propane. It will start readily on gas and run
well on propane once it is warmed up,( and the choke has opened). So I called CMD and Dan offered the suggestion 
that the problem could be with the automatic choke which the EU6500 has, and the smaller inverters do not. It seems that propane does not like to be "choked", so a solution could be to disconnect the auto choke and keep it open somehow, which it may 
well do just by disconnecting the electric plug to the solenoid on the carb. I am planning to try this on the next cold start test. The theory seems to explain the good running when warm on propane, and the good starting when cold on gas. In other words it is not the cold, but the closed down choke, which causes the difficulty.I first noticed this after
I had it nicely adjusted at the load block and running well for about an hour, then i shut it off, and when I tried to start it 3 weeks later it would not start on the existing load block setting from before, it would only start on gas first, and propane only when warmed up, (and the choke had opened?). This is in the cold weather of Upstate New York. So I am hoping the choke 
disconnect is going to solve the problem??


----------



## graymac

Further reading on the internet confirms that propane does not need a choke to start. This then seems to be the problem with the EU6500 cold starting on propane when it is converted. The automatic choke disconnect should be an essential part of the conversion,
and I believe this is mentioned on another thread.


----------



## graymac

At around 30 degreesF yesterday, I went through the procedure of first starting on gas and
then letting the EU6500is which has been converted to tri-fuel with the CMD kit, run for about ten minutes to get warmed up (and ensure the choke was fully open). Then I started it on propane with the previous load block setting, and did some small adjustments to it under load and ran it on eco and on full throttle to give it a proper test that the load block settings were confirmed ok. Then I let it cool for a good hour or so and disconnected the electric plug for the automatic choke, made sure it was in fact fully open, and attached a small alligator clip to a part of the mechanism to ensure it remained open. Then, yes indeed, it started on propane with no choke, and a cold engine!!!
So the next project is how to now attach a choke cable for manual operation and the convenience of running on gas when necessary.


----------



## PeterB123

graymac, nice job and great information!! Keep us posted on the progress. I'll probably be asking you some questions about it soon.


----------



## graymac

So far have not discovered how to attach a manual choke control. Northern Auto Parts sells a "Hand Choke Conversion Kit", at a very reasonable price, but I still would not know how or where to attach it to the carburetor. It does seem that this should be an essential part of the tri-fuel conversion, for any motor that has an automatic choke?!
Maybe the way to go, as suggested by a guy in the UK, would be an electrical switch to disable the choke?
He has just now made this suggestion: The choke is powered on, rather than off, so a single pole switch in one of the wires should work. Using an ECO throttle style switch would be neat. 
This does seem to be a very good solution to try!


----------



## graymac

There is a great three part video series on YouTube on how to remove the control panel:




 This will be very useful information when it comes to installing the switch to disable the automatic choke. The Honda generator guy in the UK has a website with lots of info at:http://www.petepower.co.uk/LPG-gas-conversion.html


----------



## PeterB123

Wise Sales guys, you need to offer a kit and a generator with a kit already on it.


----------



## Sixto

Installed the Tri-fuel CMD kit on the EU6500is, did a test with propane, all was fine. Tested with load, all seemed to be fine.

Recently had a natural gas line run, and while it would start and idle fine, it seemed to not be reacting to load very well.

Was doing some reading and the CMD kit comes with a Garretson regulator with a specification of 6oz (11" water column) which my natural gas is 6.5ish water column or 4oz.

I saw that a 4oz Garretson regulator is available and bought it, and now all seems to be fine as load gets added or removed dynamically.

I guess I could have tuned the 6oz version with the adjustment screw above the inlet, but I wasn't sure that I wanted to tinker with the factory setting.

I do have a question for the group here ...

There's a Gates 1/2" ID hose that should go from the regulator through the wall of the generator to the small hose that feeds the drilled carburetor. They are joined together with a 1/4" union.

I was worried about trying to make a 90 degree turn from outside the generator into the generator, so I bought some brass 1/4" piping and a 1/4" cutoff switch.

So I have the 1/2" hose go to a 1/4" cutoff, to a 90 degree 1/4" elbow, 1.5 inch pipe through the generator wall, to another 90 degree 1/4" elbow, to the smaller hose that feeds the carburetor. Anybody see any issue with this?

It seems to run ok, and it allows me to shut off the natural gas supply if I want to run on gasoline, without a need to touch the load block.

I just wonder if all this brass 1/4" piping that I've added would affect the ability for natural gas to flow, thinking maybe I should have use 1/2" piping, which I just bought but not sure if I should change.

All thoughts welcome!


----------



## PeterB123

Sixto, anything I'd have to say about that would be 100% speculation, so I'll defer to others.

On another note, we just had a power outage in my neighborhood that lasted for almost 6 hours last week. I took a different approach, and instead of starting on gasoline and switching to natural gas, I just started it on natural gas by reducing the flow into the regulator and then as it warmed up in a minute or so and started sputtering, I adjusted again to increase fuel flowing into the regulator. I like this approach because I don't have to start with the gasoline. I hate having gas sitting in the tank even with using a stabilizer.


----------



## Sixto

PeterB123 said:


> Sixto, anything I'd have to say about that would be 100% speculation, so I'll defer to others.
> 
> On another note, we just had a power outage in my neighborhood that lasted for almost 6 hours last week. I took a different approach, and instead of starting on gasoline and switching to natural gas, I just started it on natural gas by reducing the flow into the regulator and then as it warmed up in a minute or so and started sputtering, I adjusted again to increase fuel flowing into the regulator. I like this approach because I don't have to start with the gasoline. I hate having gas sitting in the tank even with using a stabilizer.


After lots of reading here and at the US Carb site, I decided to just disconnect the auto choke. Also got that recommendation from another knowledgeable person. They mentioned that disconnecting the auto choke should have zero negative effect when running on natural gas.

The EU6500iS starts now every time, first time, without adjusting the load block.

Will see if this continues ...


----------



## Jackruf

Peter, can you provide the steps for disconnecting the choke? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Sixto

There's two connections on the top of the carb, the auto choke is the connection on the right. I removed the plastic cap, disconnected the right connection, and put the cap back on. 

You also need to manually make sure the choke is open, and it should then stay that way. You set the choke to the open position by using your finger to move the plastic choke switch in the clockwise direction. You can see what to move by watching what happens when you switch the power switch to ON without turning on the engine. It closes the choke when the choke wiring harness is connected. When looking at the carb, the plastic switch needs to be moved to about the 8 o'clock position. I figured this all out because I replaced the original carb with a new tri-fuel carb from CMD, so I had the old carb to examine to see how it all works. The choke is on the right when looking at the front of the carb. If the choke is open then it closes as soon as you turn the key to the ON position before cranking the engine, a simple turn of the key to ON closes the choke when cold. 

I also confirmed this all with someone who I feel is knowledgable but no guarantees, but it certainly seems to work for the few times that I've now tried to start the engine cold. I haven't needed to change the load block at start and all seems to run fine. Love to hear from anyone who thinks that this would be a problem, and certainly would need to reconnect if running on gasoline which I'm hoping to never need to do since I seem to have things purring nicely on natural gas now.


----------



## Jackruf

6-2 thanks for the instructions. I will give it a try. Just out of curiosity, how many turns do you need to keep the load block out on a full load?


----------



## Sixto

Jackruf said:


> 6-2 thanks for the instructions. I will give it a try. Just out of curiosity, how many turns do you need to keep the load block out on a full load?


Good question, my reference has been the number of grooves in the load block screw from the open end of the screw to the load block lock nut. For me, for the CMD kit, it's 10 screw grooves. I use a pointy object or screwdriver to count the screw grooves.


----------



## Jackruf

Sixto, if I push the black plastic choke lever as far as it will go toward the back should that put the choke in the fully open position? I disconnected the auto choke wire. Still having a heck of a time getting it started on NG. I eventually get it going, but it takes 4-6 tries and lots of priming. Very frustrating and losing confidence. I really don't want to reintroduce gasoline to get it started, but that seems to be the only tried and true method for an easy start from my experience.


----------



## Sixto

Jackruf said:


> Sixto, if I push the black plastic choke lever as far as it will go toward the back should that put the choke in the fully open position? I disconnected the auto choke wire. Still having a heck of a time getting it started on NG. I eventually get it going, but it takes 4-6 tries and lots of priming. Very frustrating and losing confidence. I really don't want to reintroduce gasoline to get it started, but that seems to be the only tried and true method for an easy start from my experience.


As you're looking at it from the front, with the panel door open, you should push it to the left, clockwise if looking from the top.

I haven't tried mine in a couple of weeks, but the last few times it started right up.


----------



## Sixto

Not sure if I mentioned earlier in this thread but I also swapped out the standard Garretson regulator, was 038-122 (6oz). I switched to the 039-31173-1 which supports 4oz (7") water column NG pressure. There were suggestions on how to tweak the 038-122 for 4oz but figured that I'd go with the one setup for 4oz from the factory. Not sure if it helped with the start, but it does seem to react to load better. Also changed the spark plug to .20 gap.


----------



## Jackruf

thanks so much for your quick reply. I will give the suggestions a try.


----------



## Sixto

Jackruf said:


> thanks so much for your quick reply. I will give the suggestions a try.


Yeah, no problem. I'm learning as I go. Have spoken to CMD a few times along the way as well. Trying to get this perfect so that it runs well and I never need to use gasoline ever again, and I never need to stand on lengthy gas lines ever again. Last time was a nightmare, one day was an 8 hour search for gasoline.

The next 4-8 weeks are peak season. We'll see if the many months of planning and tuning will be needed.


----------



## GenPete

Just wanted to thank the chorus of people who appreciate the work Sixto and others have done on the EU6500 choke issue. It would be a shame to keep gasoline just to start it, and then have to worry about turpentine, etc... Better to use NG all the time, if you have it.

One thing I noticed recently...

After the local utility upgraded my service (increasing the diameter of the main service line and, thus, the BTUs), the engine was able to start more easily on Nat Gas (without the choke modification). But, the weather was warm when I tried, so I'll also be looking to see how this all works when it gets colder. 

As others have stated, it would be nice if CMD (or others) included a toggle on/off switch that could be used to shutoff the auto-choke.

What's the rationale for changing the spark gap?


----------



## Sixto

GenPete said:


> ... What's the rationale for changing the spark gap?


Read somewhere that NG burns differently and better with smaller gap. Made the change, not sure it makes any difference.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Everyone,

Noobie here. I just received my tri-fuel kit from CMD, and as everyone has noted the instructions on how to install the carb are non-existent.

Can someone walk me through this, or better yet provide a link or post some pictures? I've done a lot of googling, but found nothing.

I'm fairly handy, but I've never worked on small engines...

Thanks in advance!

-dan


----------



## Sixto

dkuster said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Noobie here. I just received my tri-fuel kit from CMD, and as everyone has noted the instructions on how to install the carb are non-existent.
> 
> Can someone walk me through this, or better yet provide a link or post some pictures? I've done a lot of googling, but found nothing.
> 
> I'm fairly handy, but I've never worked on small engines...
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -dan


There was a video on youtube where a guy (thought in Florida) showed how to add remote start and a fuel add-on kit, and the first several steps of that video were the same.

It's fairly easy but I did learn as I went.

The two key problems for me were 1) putting back the 4th clip on the bottom back for the air input plastic casing, and 2) there was a metal plate that attaches to the carburetor that I needed to cut to get the new carb installed correctly.

You remove the air unit, remove the caskets and carb, and then put everything back in the reverse order.

It should only take minutes for most of it, but it did take me almost an hour to get that back bottom clip on. I used tape and a long screwdriver finally to get it done.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Sixto,

Thanks for the quick reply. The youtube link earlier in this thread takes me to page that says the video is private, and I can't view it.

I found this. Is this what you were referring to?:






It discusses how to get the air intake clips off and a few other things, but it doesn't cover how to remove the carb.

I'm concerned about how to remove the carb, given all the hoses coming off the bottom and the electrical(?) connectors on the top.






Sixto said:


> There was a video on youtube where a guy (thought in Florida) showed how to add remote start and a fuel add-on kit, and the first several steps of that video were the same.
> 
> It's fairly easy but I did learn as I went.
> 
> The two key problems for me were 1) putting back the 4th clip on the bottom back for the air input plastic casing, and 2) there was a metal plate that attaches to the carburetor that I needed to cut to get the new carb installed correctly.
> 
> You remove the air unit, remove the caskets and carb, and then put everything back in the reverse order.
> 
> It should only take minutes for most of it, but it did take me almost an hour to get that back bottom clip on. I used tape and a long screwdriver finally to get it done.


----------



## Sixto

Yep, that's the link. The carb itself is fairly easy, you disconnect the two wiring harnesses at the top and the gasoline input, the other tubes come with the carb and get routed below through the same areas where the existing tubing is.

Other then that 4th clip, it's fairly easy.


----------



## dkuster

Hmm, CMD sent me a bare carb (might be new, might be used, for all I know) and it doesn't have any hoses coming off the bottom. 

I guess I can just swap them from over from the original carb.




Sixto said:


> Yep, that's the link. The carb itself is fairly easy, you disconnect the two wiring harnesses at the top and the gasoline input, the other tubes come with the carb and get routed below through the same areas where the existing tubing is.
> 
> Other then that 4th clip, it's fairly easy.


----------



## Sixto

Looking at my old carb right now ... I ordered a new carb and kept the old just in case. My old carb has two tubes still attached, one right above the gasoline input and the other coming out the bottom. The new carb came with those same tubes.

You remove the air intake, then the washers, then the carb, stick on the new carb, and re-attach everything. For that 4th clip on the lower back I used a piece of tape to hold it somewhat attached/hanging, then put on the air intake, and used a long heavy screwdriver to reach back to snap it closed. It took a long time before I figured out this method. Or find someone with really long fingers.  Or maybe some type of long item that is magnetized to hold the clip. I struggled with it for a long time.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Sixto,
I did the same thing - ordered the kit with a carb so I could keep the old one just in case. I'm peeved mine didn't come with the tubes.

I'm going to try to install the kit this weekend if I get a chance. Thanks for the tips on dealing with that fourth clip.

-dan





Sixto said:


> Looking at my old carb right now ... I ordered a new carb and kept the old just in case. My old carb has two tubes still attached, one right above the gasoline input and the other coming out the bottom. The new carb came with those same tubes.
> 
> You remove the air intake, then the washers, then the carb, stick on the new carb, and re-attach everything. For that 4th clip on the lower back I used a piece of tape to hold it somewhat attached/hanging, then put on the air intake, and used a long heavy screwdriver to reach back to snap it closed. It took a long time before I figured out this method. Or find someone with really long fingers.  Or maybe some type of long item that is magnetized to hold the clip. I struggled with it for a long time.


----------



## dkuster

Well, thanks to the help here that wasn't bad at all!

The tape trick worked on the rear airbox clip. It only took a couple of tries to get it on.

The only real issue I had was with the metal bracket between the carb and the airbox. It has a 90 degree bend in it, and there's a hole in it for a plastic clip that holds the two wiring harnesses. With the modified carb from CMD, the brass gas fitting protrudes enough from the carb body to interfere with the bracket. I was able to bend the bracket enough to get it to work, but not before ripping the gasket between the bracket and carb 

I laid the gasket in place and carefully lined it up. Hopefully it will be OK. I don't think it's a high pressure application...

After installing the kit I fired the generator up on gas to verify everything was OK. It purred like a kitten 

Now I just need to get the natural gas connection to the house made.

What's the size of the brass input fitting on the regulator? What kind and size of flexible hose should I use between the generator and gas supply? The hose that came with the CMD kit looks like it's generic fuel hose like the kind you can get at Autozone. Do I put a barb fitting at the regulator end? What about the connection to the supply? Is there a special type of quick-connect fitting that I need? (The hose between the generator and house will only need to be 6-8 feet in length.)

Finally, when running the generator on NG does "eco-mode" always have to be off?

Thanks!

-dan


----------



## dkuster

Sixto - How are you storing your original carb? Did you clean it or do anything special? I ran mine on gas when I got the generator to make sure everything worked. When I removed the carb I turned it upside down, tilted it, etc, to try and drain all the gas out. Then I just stuck it in a ziplock baggie.

Also, it was easy to swap over the pink drainage hoses - probably easier than removing/re-routing...


----------



## Sixto

dkuster said:


> Well, thanks to the help here that wasn't bad at all!
> 
> The tape trick worked on the rear airbox clip. It only took a couple of tries to get it on.
> 
> The only real issue I had was with the metal bracket between the carb and the airbox. It has a 90 degree bend in it, and there's a hole in it for a plastic clip that holds the two wiring harnesses. With the modified carb from CMD, the brass gas fitting protrudes enough from the carb body to interfere with the bracket. I was able to bend the bracket enough to get it to work, but not before ripping the gasket between the bracket and carb
> 
> I laid the gasket in place and carefully lined it up. Hopefully it will be OK. I don't think it's a high pressure application...
> 
> After installing the kit I fired the generator up on gas to verify everything was OK. It purred like a kitten
> 
> Now I just need to get the natural gas connection to the house made.
> 
> What's the size of the brass input fitting on the regulator? What kind and size of flexible hose should I use between the generator and gas supply? The hose that came with the CMD kit looks like it's generic fuel hose like the kind you can get at Autozone. Do I put a barb fitting at the regulator end? What about the connection to the supply? Is there a special type of quick-connect fitting that I need? (The hose between the generator and house will only need to be 6-8 feet in length.)
> 
> Finally, when running the generator on NG does "eco-mode" always have to be off?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -dan





dkuster said:


> Sixto - How are you storing your original carb? Did you clean it or do anything special? I ran mine on gas when I got the generator to make sure everything worked. When I removed the carb I turned it upside down, tilted it, etc, to try and drain all the gas out. Then I just stuck it in a ziplock baggie.
> 
> Also, it was easy to swap over the pink drainage hoses - probably easier than removing/re-routing...


That's great, yep, as referenced I had a problem with that metal bracket as well. I removed it and cut it a few inches shorter.

I have a 3/4 quick disconnect on the house, 3/4 flexible house from house to regulator, and direct connect to regulator. The hose is permanently attached to the regulator. I just need to quickly hook up the hose to the quick disconnect each time. I ordered everything from Natural Gas Connector Hoses and Quick Connect Fittings, Generator Connector Hose, Stainless Steel Overbraid Gas Hose

Just like you, cleaned up the old carb and it's in a baggie, as backup.

When you do get the NG hooked up, you'll need to play with load-block setting. I also disconnected the auto-choke, and since then it's starts first or second try.

I use eco-mode just fine. I do have a little problem if I'm running at about 4,000 watts and add load that spikes to 5,500 watts, it seems to surge somewhat and the lights flicker, but I'm not planning to run more then 2,000-3,000 watts steadily so mostly fine.

We did have a short outage recently and I had the house up and running within minutes. Roll it out, hook up NG and power cord, turn off street power, turn on generator breaker, presto, house powered. I could do it in 5 minutes if I needed to.


----------



## Sixto

And one other thing .... I didn't like the idea of bending the hose from the regulator to the carb thru the generator walling ... so I put a 90-degree brass fitting inside and outside the generator wall with a nipple between the two ... then hooked up the hose inside and outside to the brass fittings, with no rubber tubing going through the generator casing.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Sixto:

While I'm waiting for the plumber to get back to me regarding the NG hookup, I'm trying to work through what else needs to be done.

You previously mentioned you needed to change to a different regulator, and also disable auto-choke. I don't know what my NG pressure is, so I'm not going to worry about the regulator just yet. Should I wait to see if I have any issues before disabling auto-choke, or is this something that should definitely be done when running on NG? I've been looking at my original carb. After disconnecting the electrical connection, I should manually turn the actuator on top of the carb so the the vane is fully open, correct?

What's the procedure for setting the load block? The CMD instructions say to turn the screw full in, then back it out 1/4 turn for each horsepower of engine rating. So for the eu6500 that should be ~12HP x 1/4 turn = 3 full turns. But how do I verify that's the correct setting? Do I turn the screw in or out at idle until the engine smooths out? Or are adjustments done with the generator loaded?

BTW, thanks so much for all the help!

-dan




Sixto said:


> And one other thing .... I didn't like the idea of bending the hose from the regulator to the carb thru the generator walling ... so I put a 90-degree brass fitting inside and outside the generator wall with a nipple between the two ... then hooked up the hose inside and outside to the brass fittings, with no rubber tubing going through the generator casing.


----------



## Sixto

dkuster said:


> Hi Sixto:
> 
> While I'm waiting for the plumber to get back to me regarding the NG hookup, I'm trying to work through what else needs to be done.
> 
> You previously mentioned you needed to change to a different regulator, and also disable auto-choke. I don't know what my NG pressure is, so I'm not going to worry about the regulator just yet. Should I wait to see if I have any issues before disabling auto-choke, or is this something that should definitely be done when running on NG? I've been looking at my original carb. After disconnecting the electrical connection, I should manually turn the actuator on top of the carb so the the vane is fully open, correct?
> 
> What's the procedure for setting the load block? The CMD instructions say to turn the screw full in, then back it out 1/4 turn for each horsepower of engine rating. So for the eu6500 that should be ~12HP x 1/4 turn = 3 full turns. But how do I verify that's the correct setting? Do I turn the screw in or out at idle until the engine smooths out? Or are adjustments done with the generator loaded?
> 
> BTW, thanks so much for all the help!
> 
> -dan


Yeah, don't worry about the regulator, it was just a theory that I had, but not sure that the different regulator changed anything.

For the disable of the auto-choke it definitely helped me starting. I disconnected it and did the following:


Sixto said:


> As you're looking at it from the front, with the panel door open, you should push it to the left, clockwise if looking from the top.
> 
> I haven't tried mine in a couple of weeks, but the last few times it started right up.


Here's what I did with the load block:


Sixto said:


> Good question, my reference has been the number of grooves in the load block screw from the open end of the screw to the load block lock nut. For me, for the CMD kit, it's 10 screw grooves. I use a pointy object or screwdriver to count the screw grooves.


I fgured this out by finding the most closed state that ran smoothly, then applying load and opening it up little by little to just keep it purring nicely.


----------



## Jackruf

Sixto - with regard to fully opening the disabled choke - with the side door open, do you push the black plastic tab fully forward until it stops?


----------



## Sixto

Jackruf said:


> Sixto - with regard to fully opening the disabled choke - with the side door open, do you push the black plastic tab fully forward until it stops?


Yes. Clockwise.


----------



## dkuster

I won't be able to test anything until I get the plumber to do the NG hookup, but I followed the CMD instructions for setting the load block - screw all the way in, then back out 1/4 turn for each HP of the engine.

This exposed 6 grooves between the lock nut and top of screw. I know Sixto said he has ~10 grooves exposed. I'll post back once I get to try it out...


----------



## Sixto

dkuster said:


> I won't be able to test anything until I get the plumber to do the NG hookup, but I followed the CMD instructions for setting the load block - screw all the way in, then back out 1/4 turn for each HP of the engine.
> 
> This exposed 6 grooves between the lock nut and top of screw. I know Sixto said he has ~10 grooves exposed. I'll post back once I get to try it out...


Good luck!


----------



## gbow

*Another tri-fuel 6500*

I too just recently received my 6500 from CMD. I also want to thank everyone on here for all the great information about getting this thing set up and running properly. I live in a rural area and will be using propane, since I have a 500 gal tank in my yard. 

dkuster, when I got my generator from CMD, the load block was already set properly. CMD probably tested it and left it adjusted. 

That being said, the adjustment was a full 7 turns from closed, which is a LOT more than the 1/4 round per HP that was listed in their instructions. So your mileage may vary. Fortunately for me, when I started adjusting mine for propane I screwed it closed, but counted the turns when I did that. Then tried the 1/4 turn per HP, couldn't get it started, then decided to try what it was set at when I got it (7 full turns) and it fired right up. 

It does seem to be hard to start when cold, hence I will probably be modifying the auto-choke per the instructions from Sixto (thanks for that!). I would like to figure out a way to put a switch in the auto-choke as I might want to use it on gasoline once in a while. I might just put a toggle switch inside the cover on the wire and/or if I could put a connector inline with the wire that I could just disconnect that might work too. I don't anticipate changing it that often, but as sure as I disconnect it I'll have a need to run it on gasoline for some reason.


----------



## Sixto

Nice.

I first tried propane, before I had the NG line run, and it worked well. Now just NG.


----------



## vas1907

*EU6500is on LPG - with Central Maine Diesel tri-fuel conversion*

Thanks all for all the good conversion advice. Purchased my UE6500 in July 2012 and converted to LPG in November 2012. Instructions - crap, but figured it out. Would NEVER start on LPG. So for a year and 2,800 hours, I have been starting on gasoline and then converting to LPG while running. A manual pain in the butt that makes the remote start feature impossible. 

I cannot wait disable the auto-choke and see what impact this has. 

As for advice to others about the conversion. 
a) buy a couple of extra air box clips
b) use the long screwdriver and tape method for the back clip
c) get a magnet retriever before you start

In general - EU6500is is the best genny in the world. Love the machine. Reliable, quiet, efficient. Cant wait to see how long it will last. 5,000 hours? 10,000 hours? As for the CMD tri-fuel conversion, instruction, and support: C- at best.

If anyone has other advice to help the cold start on LPG - please bring it. This is the reason I signed up for the forum....

Why so many hours? check us out >> The Cliffhouse at Bear CreekBroken Bow, OK - Broken Bow Cabins


----------



## dkuster

Ok, well, update time:

I finally got my outside NG shutoff valve, quick connect, and hose set up, so today I tried out the generator on natural gas.

I had already adjusted the load block per the CMD instructions (1/4 turn per engine HP). 

It wouldn't start. So then I disconnected the auto-choke and made sure the actuator was fully clockwise (viewed from top) to open the vane. (Thanks to Sixto for the instructions!)

Still wouldn't start.

Next I started unscrewing the load block screw.

What a pain in the @ss!! I finally got it started, with ~ 10 screw grooves showing on the load block. While trying to start it there a bunch of loud "backfires" and it looked like the air box cover (the one with those clips) was going to blow off! I'm sure this isn't good for the generator but I don't know how to prevent it.

Next, I turned off the generator and tried to start it while warm. No go. I again had to fiddle endlessly with the load block.

Once I got it going I let the battery charge, since I'm sure all the starting attempts drained it. After a while I turned it off and let it cool down.

Next I tried cold starting. No go. 10 minutes of load block fiddling (again!) to get it running.

After that I gave up for the day.

It seems like the sweet spot once I get it running is 10 - 11 grooves. But it won't start (hot or cold) when set there. I think I have to back it out even more to start and then bring it back in once running to smooth it out.

Does anyone have an insight or suggestions? I spent a lot of money on the CMD kit and NG plumbing, and right now I'm fighting the feeling that it was a waste. 






dkuster said:


> I won't be able to test anything until I get the plumber to do the NG hookup, but I followed the CMD instructions for setting the load block - screw all the way in, then back out 1/4 turn for each HP of the engine.
> 
> This exposed 6 grooves between the lock nut and top of screw. I know Sixto said he has ~10 grooves exposed. I'll post back once I get to try it out...


----------



## Sixto

What size NG quick disconnect on house? Size hose? Length of hose? Size of connection into regulator?

Mine are all 3/4 and the 3/4 hose is 15 feet.

You should be able to get it working. I just tested mine last weekend, and it started cold perfectly. I pressed the manual primer a few times, and then I just let it crank for about 20-30 seconds and it started right up, and ran for 15-20 minutes fine.

You'll figure this out. Mine did take some time to get it right, but I now never need to touch the load block.

The only change that I made was I did switch from the Garretson regulator 038-122 to the 039-31173-1 which supports 4oz, "-1" for manual feed. Not sure if that helped but everything works fine now.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Sixto!

Thanks for responding so quickly...

The plumber T'd into the 3/4" NG gas line, but the piping is 1/2". He had to add maybe 4' (max) of 1/2" line to reach the outside of the house. From there, I have an 8', 1/2" quick connect hose all the way to the generator.

Does this give you any insight?

Should I try the alternate regulator you suggested? 

Did you have to do anything special with the spark plug? After some googling I read something about using a spark plug with a different gap measurement for NG versus gasoline...

Regards,

-dan




Sixto said:


> What size NG quick disconnect on house? Size hose? Length of hose? Size of connection into regulator?
> 
> Mine are all 3/4 and the 3/4 hose is 15 feet.
> 
> You should be able to get it working. I just tested mine last weekend, and it started cold perfectly. I pressed the manual primer a few times, and then I just let it crank for about 20-30 seconds and it started right up, and ran for 15-20 minutes fine.
> 
> You'll figure this out. Mine did take some time to get it right, but I now never need to touch the load block.
> 
> The only change that I made was I did switch from the Garretson regulator 038-122 to the 039-31173-1 which supports 4oz, "-1" for manual feed. Not sure if that helped but everything works fine now.


----------



## dkuster

Sixto,

Did I read that right? You let the generator crank for 20 to 30 seconds?

I only let it crank for 4 or 5, and if it doesn't start I wait and try again.

Am I doing it wrong??



dkuster said:


> Hi Sixto!
> 
> Thanks for responding so quickly...
> 
> The plumber T'd into the 3/4" NG gas line, but the piping is 1/2". He had to add maybe 4' (max) of 1/2" line to reach the outside of the house. From there, I have an 8', 1/2" quick connect hose all the way to the generator.
> 
> Does this give you any insight?
> 
> Should I try the alternate regulator you suggested?
> 
> Did you have to do anything special with the spark plug? After some googling I read something about using a spark plug with a different gap measurement for NG versus gasoline...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -dan


----------



## Sixto

They recommend 3/4" the entire way, but not sure that's your problem, I'd think that would more effect total capacity. 

For the spark plug gap I did change mine to 20ish, but also not sure that's your problem either. 

Yep, I do need to let it crank a little but it does eventually start for me. And if I try a second time then I make sure to press the manual primer a few more times again. 

You should try on propane, I used that first to make sure everything was working fine, before I invested in the NG setup. 

You also need to take it very slow, with only little changes at a time, and patience. 

Good luck.


----------



## Jackruf

Dkuster, try starting first on gasoline and then cutting over to NG after it warms up. To do so, you will need a shut off on the line between the regulator and carb. I have the US carb set up and it is very tricky to get set up correctly. I can get it started with NG, but I found starting on gasoline then fine tuning on NG the first few times speeds up the adjustment process. Plus this will give you the assurance it can run on NG? 

My EU6500 runs best on NG with the choke set at about 8:00 when standing in front of the door that exposes the choke and looking down. These EU6500s are tough NG set ups. I still question if I should have spent a few bucks more and gone for the full auto standby.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Sixto,

The supplemental instructions that came with my CMD kit specify 3/8" hose from the regulator to the fuel supply. So with 1/2" hose I would think I'm fine. It's an 8' hose from the generator to the quick-connect on the house.

I'll try adjusting it again. Maybe I can get it where it will both start and run. My adjustments might have been too course.

I'll also see if a different spark plug gap helps. It looks like that alternate garretson regulator is about $90. I might try that as a last resort.

Should I mess with the adjustment screw on the front of the regulator, or leave that alone??

Thanks for all the help. I'll look into getting a propane tank and hose as well...

-dan





Sixto said:


> They recommend 3/4" the entire way, but not sure that's your problem, I'd think that would more effect total capacity.
> 
> For the spark plug gap I did change mine to 20ish, but also not sure that's your problem either.
> 
> Yep, I do need to let it crank a little but it does eventually start for me. And if I try a second time then I make sure to press the manual primer a few more times again.
> 
> You should try on propane, I used that first to make sure everything was working fine, before I invested in the NG setup.
> 
> You also need to take it very slow, with only little changes at a time, and patience.
> 
> Good luck.


----------



## Sixto

You should try Propane first, for me it was perfect, then I moved on to NG.

The only reason that I switched the regulator was because I didn't think that it was reacting to significant fluctuations in load quickly enough, but honestly I'm not sure much changed with the new regulator. Same with the spark plug gap, just not sure what effect that had.

When I turned off the choke, all my starting problems went away.


----------



## dkuster

Hi Jackruf,

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to not have to start on gas to avoid the risk of gumming up the carb on stale fuel, but if I have to I'll explore that option. So, you're saying I would have to cut the hose somewhere between the regulator output and the carb and install a shutoff valve, correct? And then to switch between gasoline and NG you quickly shut off the gasoline supply using the knob on the 6500 control panel and open the NG valve at the same time?

So, if I read you right your choke is not fully open, but slightly closed down? My auto-choke is currently disabled and the vane is fully open. Sounds like there's yet another variable to play with 





Jackruf said:


> Dkuster, try starting first on gasoline and then cutting over to NG after it warms up. To do so, you will need a shut off on the line between the regulator and carb. I have the US carb set up and it is very tricky to get set up correctly. I can get it started with NG, but I found starting on gasoline then fine tuning on NG the first few times speeds up the adjustment process. Plus this will give you the assurance it can run on NG?
> 
> My EU6500 runs best on NG with the choke set at about 8:00 when standing in front of the door that exposes the choke and looking down. These EU6500s are tough NG set ups. I still question if I should have spent a few bucks more and gone for the full auto standby.


----------



## Jackruf

Correct, put a ball valve in supply hose between regulator and carb and close it when you start with gas. Let it warm up on gas, shut the gasoline valve and open the ball valve. It will putter for a few moments as the gas is depleted and the NG takes over. You can then adjust the NG to run smooth. I too wanted to avoid gasoline at all costs, but I finally gave in. I purchased a few quarts of the ethyenol free gas from Home Depot to keep in the tank. With regard to the choke -- I disconnected auto and found it runs best at 8:00 position. 

I don't think you have a supply issue.


----------



## PeterB123

dkuster said:


> I'm trying to not have to start on gas to avoid the risk of gumming up the carb on stale fuel, but if I have to I'll explore that option.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when you switch "during run" from gasoline to NG, won't any gas in the carb cycle through it meaning that there will be no fuel in the carb to gum up?


----------



## Jackruf

Peter, you are correct. That is why I don't worry about gumming up the carb. The gas in the carb is depleted when you shut the gas valve off and all residual should burn off. Just need to remember to periodically drain the tank.

The US Carb website states that some generators will not start on NG or Propane and need to warm up on gasoline before switching over.


----------



## PeterB123

Thanks. Sometimes I make assumptions that make perfect sense in my head that later turns out to be totally wrong. lol.

BTW, I really wish I had started this thread different and had been a little more concise. I just thought it might get a few dozen reads, so I wasn't too concerned about my rambling. Now that this has soared past 20,000 views, I wonder how many people have said, "Dude, just get to the point, I don't need all the background." lol


----------



## dkuster

*learned a few more things...*

Ok, I fiddled around some more over the last week and learned a few things. This is after installing a new spark plug with the gap adjusted to .020". (Google searches verified that this is the recommended gap size for natural gas.)

First, the generator starts and seems to run fine on gasoline with the smaller gap spark plug _and_ with the auto-choke disconnected and the vane set fully open. It's as if auto-choke doesn't have much of an affect on operation(?) 

After some fiddling I was able to start the generator on NG. It seemed easier this time. I made smaller adjustments (1/4 turn) at the load block and that seemed to help. Regardless of whether the generator is warmed up or not, the load block setting that makes the generator run smoothly does not seem to allow it to start(!?!?) I always have to adjust the screw (somewhere around 1 turn "in", I think) to start, and fiddle some more to smooth it out once it's started. I may try different choke vane settings (8 o'clock) as mentioned earlier in this thread to see if that helps.

I previously mentioned experiencing loud "mis-fires" when trying to start the generator on NG. I was very concerned that these could be damaging to the engine. I'm happy to report there are _no_ misfires anymore. I believe this, along with the somewhat easier starting, is due to smaller spark plug gap. Anyone experiencing difficulties might want to give this a try.

I'll post back here when I have more...


----------



## Sixto

Glad that you're making progress. I wonder if the regulator is the issue. I switched to that other regulator because NG pressure is lower, and I have no problems any more, but I also changed other things as well, so I never really knew which fixed it.


----------



## dkuster

Thanks, Sixto. I may try the other regulator as a last resort if I can't get it to work reliably...




Sixto said:


> Glad that you're making progress. I wonder if the regulator is the issue. I switched to that other regulator because NG pressure is lower, and I have no problems any more, but I also changed other things as well, so I never really knew which fixed it.


----------



## Sixto

There is a way to adjust the standard Garretson 6oz 038-122 regulator to match the 4oz 039-31173-1 regulator, but I didn't want to modify anything myself. There's an adjustment screw under the outer screw. I found a description of how to make the adjustment but I decided that I'd just invest the $90 and get the 4oz regulator, the swap was easy. Again, not sure if that 's the answer but I wanted the regulator that matched my NG pressure.

Just to be clear ... I have a 3/4 quick disconnect at the house, 10 feet of 3/4 NG hose, 3/4 connection to the Garretson 039-31173 regulator, I have the auto choke disconnected and always open, and I changed the spark gap to 18-20-ish. 

To start, I prime with a couple of presses, and then I turn on the electric start, and I let it crank for a good 10-20 seconds and it starts every time. I need to double check but I think I have it open 10 screw groves.


----------



## dkuster

Just a quick update: I did purchase the other regulator to try, but back in mid Dec I had an accident with the snowblower. I stupidly got my hand too close to the chute when i thought the fan/auger was off. The result - two fingers crushed in the fan. I should be ok but it's a slow healing process.

I'll try the regulator once i have the use of both of my hands again.


----------



## Sixto

Wow. You take care of yourself!


----------



## PeterB123

dkuster said:


> Just a quick update: I did purchase the other regulator to try, but back in mid Dec I had an accident with the snowblower. I stupidly got my hand too close to the chute when i thought the fan/auger was off. The result - two fingers crushed in the fan. I should be ok but it's a slow healing process.
> 
> I'll try the regulator once i have the use of both of my hands again.


Any updates on hand or regulator?


----------



## Derick Sharp

I know its been sometime since anyone has responded to this old thread, but im having problems with my EU6500 tri fuel conversion. I always need to start it on gasoline to get it running, i am aware of the choke issue, but it also has problems even after its warmed up. 



After its warmed up, i always need to adjust the load block a couple of turns, and then it will sound great.. but then it seems not to respond correctly or lags if i start to add load to the generator even with the eco throttle turned off sometimes causing the engine to sputter or cutting off the engine.. if i dont change the load, it runs fine; but no matter how much i adjust, i cant seem to get it run consistently. It does run fine on gasoline with changing loads .. runs perfect on gasoline. 



I am thinking of ordering the alternate regulator described by scipto to see if thats the problem .. i also need to check the spark plug gap which could be a problem, but its lag on adding load makes me wonder if somethings not right with the regulator so i am going to check the spark plug gap first though i keep thinking the regulator may be a problem.



I currently have a 3/4 inch natgas line coming in which is hooked to a 3/4 inch hose... the hose is 25' which is longer than most mentioned here .. im not sure if that could also be a problem. The other thing i have thought about was getting a vaccum guage to put between the carbertor and the regulator just to establish what going on there and to give some feed back to me as to the vaccum being pulled and how its running. 



In any event, if anyone has thoughts or further ideas it be much appreciated. thanks.


----------



## Sammydog

I have had the EU6500i US Carb conversion for several years. I had similar problems with getting it started on natural gas. Reducing the gap on the plug solved that problem. I have also experienced the issue of the demand regulator being insensitive to changes in the load block setting. US Carb sent me a replacement snorkel and that did not resolve the problem. My prior conventional generator worked great with the US Carb conversion kit. I expected to experience a 10% or so reduction in power vis a vis gasoline, but without the ability to control the inflow, I am experiencing a greater loss than 10%.


----------



## iowagold

just an update on the spark gap and plug for NG or LP conversions.
now they like the iridium ngk plug with the gap set to .020 inches or 20 thou.

it advances the spark a bit at that gap as well.
we also use this new gap and iridium plug on the new honda eu7000is us carb conversions for the late model honda generators.


----------



## hill

Wow - this is a great thread. It's nearly a decade old! Thanks to all the contributors. We've had our eu6500 (and its conversion done) roughly 10 years ago. One thing we noticed last time we fired the 6500 up was that the engine was starting to "surge" when sitting at eco/idle ... nearly sputtering out, then rev high, settle back into idle, then repeat. The 6500 wasn't specifically made for alternate fuels (propane/natural gas) so the warning applies ... "may cause premature wear on vales & their seats". Our only has maybe 250 hours on it, so premature wear seems unlikely.
Any thoughts? (presuming anyone is still around) Sorry in advance for reviving a zombie thread.
.


----------

