# For an 8000w with 15HP engine, the Natural Gas hose, is 1/2" ok, or does it need 3/4"? for 15 feet of hose



## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

I was looking into various pieces to assemble a NG conversion.
It seems looking at BTU for 15 HP, 1/2" hose is sufficient and about half the price or a little less.
A 1/2" NG hose can deliver a lot more BTU than 38,166.5, it delivers 75,000 BTU at 20 feet.
So what is the story?





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Converter Horsepower to Btu per hour


Convert Horsepower to Btu per hour, hp to btu/h conversion, 1 horsepower = 2544.4336113065 btu per hour, Calculator horsepower to btu per hour.




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https://fire-boulder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Gas-Line-Pipe-Sizing-Chart.pdf


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

3/4 min ID on 15 hp


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

I also looked at the costs to run 15HP engine for 24 hours.
Virginia Natural gas charges me 0.66, or 66 cents per ccf (100 cubic feet)

A calculator shows the HP*H to CCF conversion

Engine 15 HP * 24H(running 24 hours) is 360 HPH

360 HPH is equal to 916 cf (cubic feet of gas)

Divide by 100 to get CCF, so 916/100 is 9.16 CCF used by 15 HP engine in 24 hours, maxed out, it wont run maxed out though.
9.16 ccf cost is then $6 a day with gen maxed out

Am I looking at about the correct numbers and 24 price for my NG usage?And since gen wont be maxing out engine HP, cost could be much less, maybe $4 per 24 hour run time

Horsepower-hours to Cubic Feet Of Natural Gas | Kyle's Converter (kylesconverter.com)


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

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Convert cu ft N.G. to hp h | cubic foot of natural gas to horsepower hours


Diferent energy units conversion from cubic foot of natural gas to horsepower hours. Between cu ft N.G. and hp h measurements conversion chart page. Convert 1 cu ft N.G. into horsepower hour and cubic feet of natural gas to hp h. The other way around, how many horsepower hours - hp h are in one...




www.traditionaloven.com




I get the same number here, 916 cubic feet NG is 360 HP*H

verified that 916 cubic feet is 9.16 ccf




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Ccfs to Cubic Foots Conversion Calculator


Ccfs to Cubic Foots Converter



www.unitconversion.org


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

It seems to me in a few days of gen run time, the conversion is paid for.
It could cost on gasoline at $4 per gallon, assuming a gallon per hour, in 24 hours is 24 gallons of gas burned.

24 gallons times 4$ a gallon is about $96 per day to run a gen for 24 hours.

On NG, the cost might be $4 to $6 per day.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

What is the name of the adjustable brass valve that goes on the regulator?
Can it be bought separate from a kit? Someone have a link?


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

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SE-4 90° Fuel Adjustment Elbow


3/8" NPT Pipe x 1/2" Hose, 90 Degree




centuryfuelproducts.com




Ok found one. Simple name.

Actually may not be needed. I have been watching vids and people are making their own gas nozzle facing into the carb, I plan to do that too. Drill a hole and run a 1/2 copper line out the side of the metal air cleaner housing, if it will fit between air claner element and choke plate with an elbow. Right now just learning what i need to know.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

ok, went with this 3/4 inch Ngas hose, which has a quick disconnect. I got it for $104.
Amazon.com : DOZYANT 15 Foot 3/4inch ID Natural Gas Hose with Quick Connect/Disconnect Fittings for Generator, Construction Heaters and More NG/Propane Appliance : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I thought about using hydraulic hose like this, 20 foot for $89, but no fitings on the ends, which adds to the cost.

this is a really good strong hose
Amazon.com: VEVOR Hydraulic Hose 3/4 inch x 50 ft, Coiled Hydraulic Hose 3120 PSI, Rubber Hydraulic Hose with 2 High-Tensile Steel Wire Braid, Bulk Hydraulic Hose -20℃ to 140℃, Hydraulic Oil Flexible Hose : Industrial & Scientific


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Paid $45 for a regulator, got the last one.
Amazon.com: HUSWELL 039-122 Regulator for IMPCO C-039-122 Low Pressure Natural Gas Generator Regulator Converter Forklift LP : Industrial & Scientific

There is still a bunch of these on ALiExpress.
1pcs Low Pressure Regulator Generator 039-122 Converter Natural Gas Lp Garretson Impco Style G-kn / Garretson / Garretson-039-99 - Tool Parts - AliExpress


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Seen some people use the spring adjustment near the inlet valve to adjust gas flow, while others use a bolt elbow valve at the outlet. There is a lock down plug to unscrew to get to the adjuster at the inlet.
I was reading one guy said the manufacturer had used loctite to prevent adjusting it, so had to take regulator apart and use propane torch to free it.
You also dont have to have the bolt adjusting valve at the outlet, you can setup with no valve, or use a ball valve inline in the hose going to engine carb. I suppose you could pinch the hose too.
Adjust Garretson low pressure gas regulator 039-122 - YouTube


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Can Galvanized Pipe Be Used For Natural Gas? – Upgraded Home


Plumbing for natural gas service can be a tricky proposition. There is a huge difference between myths, rumors, and facts. Getting to the bottom of the galvanized pipe question is




upgradedhome.com




YES galvanized pipe is legal for NGAS today.
My house made in 1973 used it too. So I also will when adding the ball valve to the piping off the meter.
I was looking at my pipes and thinking I dont want rusting pipes.

I did find a cheap bronze or brass 3/4" street elbow for $7, I might get it for the regulator. Not sure yet or just use a galvanized street.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Kohler gen example with pipe size, pipe length and CFM requirements for both NG and LP


http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/g4097.pdf


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

sdowney717 said:


> I was looking at my pipes and thinking I dont want rusting pipes.


You can always get inline filters if you are concerned about debris from the piping...


https://www.honeywellgasdepot.com/gas-filtration-conditioning/in-line-threaded-filters.html


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> You can always get inline filters if you are concerned about debris from the piping...
> 
> 
> https://www.honeywellgasdepot.com/gas-filtration-conditioning/in-line-threaded-filters.html


I was really just thinking about the outside appearance.
I have watched vids of these demand regulators taken apart, they can get corroded on the inside, but they are super simple on the inside.

Generator conversion kit maintenance. - YouTube


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Oh.

Well, if you wanted to inhibit external rust on the pipes, then use a corrosion resistant paint made for metal such as...

Rust-Oleum 7786502 Brush On Paint, 32 Fl Oz, Gloss Smoke Gray
or
Rust-Oleum 7786830 Spray Paint, 12-Ounce, Gloss Smoke Gray


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

I was thinking that video, he seems to be in a foreign country and their gas may be wetter and have contaminates. NGas standards in the US are much better.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> Oh.
> 
> Well, if you wanted to inhibit external rust on the pipes, then use a corrosion resistant paint made for metal such as...
> 
> ...


I noticed Virginia Natural Gas painted their pipes nicely with a grey paint.
I will do something paint wise too.

My house was built in 1973 using galvanized pipe

My plan is put the disconnect-ball valve on the long vertical pipe, so 2 elbows then a TEE.

Going to unscrew the right side meter collar and unscrew the pipes. and have to support the meter, but they are really pretty light.

My NG 3/4 hose will follow the house a few feet behind the heat pump, then make a 90 out into the yard to hook up the gen.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Yeah, you can freshen up all the paint on the pipes and the meter. Make it all look great! Just tape off the labels, etc.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

sdowney717 said:


> What is the name of the adjustable brass valve that goes on the regulator?
> Can it be bought separate from a kit? Someone have a link?
> View attachment 11556
> 
> ...


your buzz word is "load block"
and you want tite no leak fine thread on those.
and make sure all fittings and valves are full port.

oh yea the plate style do restrict the cfm and HP.
like in the pix.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

I ordered a full port Apollo ball valve for this from H Depot, total was $9.26. I think I have a Nibco 3/4 full port at the boat I can use.

Got the reg and the hose, and both are very nice fit and finish.
The hose is superb, IMO. It can not be squashed. the brass ends do spin in the hose, so easy to connect to the regulator, AND that can help prevent hose kinking.

Nice HD yellow covers. Although one odd thing, one yellow cover was chosen for the NPT hose end, not the disconnect end.
I moved it over to the disconnect end and while it fits ok, it is a little loose, loose enough water would enter. I may heat shrink a small piece of tube on it to squeeze it to a tighter fit or something, the yellow covers are very soft.
instead of 15', it is more like 15.5' long hose.

Regulator outlet is 3/8 NPT, inlet 3/4 NPT, all threads are smooth and good, the reg works when tested by my mouth.

The hose could easily handle a lot more PSI.
The male disconnect can not be unscrewed from the hose.
The disconnect seals the hose with a poppet valve when disconnected.
I suppose that means you have a double level of protection on the gas line outlet to the hose, a ball valve and a poppet sealing disconnect. You supply the 3/4" ball valve.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i like quick disconnects on both ends of the hose.

where are you going to mount the demand regulator?


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> i like quick disconnects on both ends of the hose.
> 
> where are you going to mount the demand regulator?


On a block of wood on the ground. I originally thought to bolt a bar across gen frame, but then I saw your post about sitting it on the ground and thought that is a good idea. That way when putting it away, just disconnect at the ball valve and at hose going to engine.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Is there like a maximum distance between the carb and the demand regulator in terms of the hose length? The demand regulator should be able to detect subtle changes in vacuum to respond accordingly and instantaneously. The farther it is from the carb, will it cause propagation delay for the pulse to get back to the demand regulator?


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

👆 Yes, the shorter the hose there the better.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

The hose to engine is going to be 5/8" ID. And It will be maybe 5 foot long, It could be 3 foot. I think I saw Iowagold saying in another thread 6 feet or less. I will experiment with length and sizes if I have to do that. Instead of a load block, I am using an Apollo ball valve full port. . I also like the idea of not having reg permanently mounted to a gen, It can be stored in a safe place, and I can test the setup on other engines. And for a portable gen, this is a temporary thing running on NGas in a power outage only.

I dont know what effect hose size has on the signaling to the regulator. Bigger hose pass more gas. Smaller hose probably signal to the regulator diaphragm better, _maybe_, just dont know.

Any thoughts on that?


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Here is a pic, a 3/8 ball valve will go between elbow and hose end
I can use 3/8, 1/2, or 5/8 hose

At engine, will drill a hole thru the steel aircleaner housing and use a short piece of copper pipe to direct gas at the carb inlet.
Plan is to use 1/2" copper water pipe for that, but I have smaller stuff too.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

sdowney717 said:


> Any thoughts on that?


There isn't a go/no-go length or size per se. The shorter the hose, and the smaller the I.D., the better/quicker response from the demand valve to vacuum changes. It can be trial and error to see what the effects are for any given installation.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> There isn't a go/no-go length or size per se. The shorter the hose, and the smaller the I.D., the better/quicker response from the demand valve to vacuum changes. It can be trial and error to see what the effects are for any given installation.


Do you think 1/2" ID hose is sufficient? I plan to drill a hole in the air cleaner metal housing and of course easier to go up in size versus down sizing the hole. Maybe use a rubber grommet or shim then. What size are most people using.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

I decided to start with 1/2" hose to the carb. And see how it does under load. Waiting right now on ball valves, I had to order the 3/4. The house NG line, is also outside, so the ball valve needs external NGas rated one.
That is BRS125G must be printed on the valve for a USA rating.
A 5G125G is rated only for indoor NGas use. Kinda tricky...
These things have to be fire rated and pressure rated at high pressures, such as a fire heating the piping, the valve can not be allowed to fail, of course this makes sense. High heat means high PSI, even if the NGas pressure is normally very low.
And if a ball valve is rated _only 600 WOG_, that means it is not rated for NGas use at all.
Water, Oil, Gas, gas being a non flammable gas, like air, steam...
If the valve just says BRS somewhere, all that means it is made of brass.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Just thinking... I'm glad I don't have this problem. With the demand regulator piggy-backed to the carb, the line between them is just 2-3 inches long with a 1/2" ID, from what I can tell. lol


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

sdowney717 said:


> The hose to engine is going to be 5/8" ID. And It will be maybe 5 foot long, It could be 3 foot. I think I saw Iowagold saying in another thread 6 feet or less. I will experiment with length and sizes if I have to do that. Instead of a load block, I am using an Apollo ball valve full port. . I also like the idea of not having reg permanently mounted to a gen, It can be stored in a safe place, and I can test the setup on other engines. And for a portable gen, this is a temporary thing running on NGas in a power outage only.
> 
> I dont know what effect hose size has on the signaling to the regulator. Bigger hose pass more gas. Smaller hose probably signal to the regulator diaphragm better, _maybe_, just dont know.
> 
> Any thoughts on that?


yea 6 feet total or less on the demand reg to the carb.
and yes the shorter the better. 3 foot is ok... i have a couple at 7 foot with no issues..
make sure if you are to use 90 deg fittings or nipples they are full port.
pm if you need a cool no snag crimper setup that works well on these hoses.

i over drill the fittings for the eu7000is front panel mod.
and use the 3/8 quick coupler on the 13 hp on the gen side..
and deburr the opening on the male quick connect... 
some are almost closed off from the factory.
flow is real good.
no power loss.
pm if you need pix.
cool mod for tri fuel and 50 amp port on the gen set.
i like HD on this gen gear...
over kill is a good thing...
no chance of not large enough on the electrical side.

still working on cams for a shop video series.
wow the good production cameras are still up there in price...
but they are getting cheaper by the day.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

What’s so Special About Gas Ball Valves?


Gas ball valves require CSA approval in order to be used in combustible gas applications.




blog.boshart.com




Here is the info on NGas ball valves
--------------------
*Indoor Gas Ratings
The CSA gas ratings for indoor approvals are ½ PSI and 5G. Just as it sounds, valves with these ratings can be installed indoors only.* Both Canada & the USA use the same ratings for indoor valves. There are two different ratings because they have different applications, the ½ PSI rating is used for valves that are at appliances, while the 5G rating is for valves that are used in household piping systems.

*Outdoor Gas Ratings
For a gas valve to be installed outdoors it must have CAN 3.16 approval in Canada and BRS125G approval in the USA.*



*Testing Gas Ball Valves*
Working with combustible gas is not something you want to mess around with. Gas ball valves are no exception, they are tested to 1.5 times the stated working pressure. The one exception to this is the CAN 3.16 valves because they already require a much higher pressure. Here is what pressures the valves are tested to for the different ratings:

½ PSI - Test Pressure 3 PSIG
5G - 7.5 PSIG
CAN 3.16 125 PSI Valves - 125 PSIG
BRS125G PSI Valves - 188 PSIG (ANSI B16.33)
*PSIG = Pounds per square inch, gauge.*

It is possible for gas valves to have different pressure and temperature ratings under the same CSA approval. Valves with a higher pressure and temperature rating have been tested to the higher ratings upon request from the manufacturer. However, all the valves must have met the CSA minimum test parameters with respect to pressure and temperature as outlined in the standard.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> yea 6 feet total or less on the demand reg to the carb.
> and yes the shorter the better. 3 foot is ok... i have a couple at 7 foot with no issues..
> make sure if you are to use 90 deg fittings or nipples they are full port.
> pm if you need a cool no snag crimper setup that works well on these hoses.
> ...


Going to try 1/2" hose to the carb first.
But it is going to takes days to get the valve, I wont know anything for about a week. I got one off Ebay, new valve
It is a Crane 3/4" BRS125G full port.

I really got fooled by the indoor, outdoor rating.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ahhh
yea i do the outdoor rated for corrosion.
special coating on the outside.
and the seals are better.

that crane valve looks like a good one.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Made a wood bracket fit to hold the regulator, final color will be a grey. The heavy hose will keep this from tipping over, the scrap base I have the longer edge 90 degrees to the hose. Can also lay couple bricks on it if needed.
Bolted on securely so it cant move. I like the temporary nature of using this, no longer a problem of what to do with a huge stiff hose permanently attached to gen getting in the way. Easier storage of gen and hose when not used, and frees up gen if took it somewhere else to run on gasoline.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

a bit of rebar works to stake it down....
i would use treated lumber if you have scraps..
lasts longer.
or build it out of aluminum if you have material on the cheap.
light weight and would last a long time.
and is no sparking.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Wood is cheap and good enough here, and it wont stay on the ground 99% of its remaining life, which is many decades long. I know that piece on the bottom is a very old red fir, likely 50 years or more. I think salvaged from an old wood boat shelf. The uprights are PT SYP.

At my other marina, a lot of boats got scrapped, and I would take this or that, whatever was of interest to me. It was all going into the dumpster. I got all sorts of marine wire, motors, switches, pumps, fishing rods, teak wood, fire extinguishers, etc. And an MCCK generator. Extra engine parts that matched my own engines. A lot of bronze big bolts and screws, like 1/2" wide width and wider long keel bolts and brass went to the landfill too.

The marina scrapped every gas engine and only kept the diesels ones. A lot of good old gas motors went to scrap. At that marina, people would buy boats, and some fall on hard times, or the boats have some major problems, and not worth the costs of repair, including fiberglass boats, so the owners walked away, and then it is the marinas problem to dispose of the boats.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

Done, got the paint on, dried, and bolted up. And there is no way this will move or fall over, unless someone kicks it like a bully or vandal might. Anyone who has held that Ngas hose I have will know that, it is heavy and stiff, it resists moving.

The grey hose really reminds me of liquid tight non-metallic conduit. I wonder if that is a lot of what that hose is, I know the outer layer is PVC, and it has some kind od plastic reinforcing spiral, I just don't know if the inside is a gray rubber or also PVC lined


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## JohnNY (Apr 27, 2020)

sdowney717 said:


> I noticed Virginia Natural Gas painted their pipes nicely with a grey paint.
> I will do something paint wise too.
> 
> My house was built in 1973 using galvanized pipe
> ...


Your gonna tap into the meter directly??


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

JohnNY said:


> Your gonna Ng to tap into the meter directly??


Plan to turn off the gas. Then drill a hole in the meter, and tig weld an aluminum fitting to the meter can right thru the label.


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## JohnNY (Apr 27, 2020)

sdowney717 said:


> Plan to turn off the gas. Then drill a hole in the meter, and tig weld an aluminum fitting to the meter can right thru the label.


You're not serious? That would be tremendously illegal and extremely unsafe on so many levels. Your not allowed to touch a service meter AT ALL. You should be tapping off inside your house properly with its own isolation/shut off valve and a quick connect coupler outside on the wall.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

JohnNY said:


> You're not serious? That would be tremendously illegal and extremely unsafe on so many levels. Your not allowed to touch a service meter AT ALL. You should be tapping off inside your house properly with its own isolation/shut off valve and a quick connect coupler outside on the wall.


JohnNY, my boy, you have a lot to learn. Much better to tap off before the meter, then the gas is free.


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## sdowney717 (12 mo ago)

When people start going weird on a forum, as a certain poster did in this thread to me, then you can know the forum is becoming useless waste of time. This is why an ignore button is a good thing to have, which most forums do have, except this one does not.

I wont comment on my thread again till it is working.


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## JohnNY (Apr 27, 2020)

sdowney717 said:


> When people start going weird on a forum, as a certain poster did in this thread to me, then you can know the forum is becoming useless waste of time. This is why an ignore button is a good thing to have, which most forums do have, except this one does not.
> 
> I wont comment on my thread again till it is working.


Guess I didn't get your humor/sarcasm in your reply about drilling through the meter, plus I was tired as ****. My apologies, but there are people who have done some scary attempts as you describe, so you don't know what someone thinks is the correct way of doing things at times.


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