# Champion no start



## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

I have a Champion 1500/1200 generator. I'm an over-the-road trucker. When I left to go on the road, two weeks ago, the Champion was working fine. I returned the other day, and the generator will not start, not even a sputter—nothing.

Any suggestions on where to begin looking for the problem?


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

When you ran it last, was the gas fresh, none ethanol, fuel treated with stabilizer? No? Then you’re likely looking at carburetor issues. Has the spark plug ever been changed and how’s the air filter look? Also is there gas in the tank now and is the Oil at the proper level? Start simple first. Dutchy


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

What is the use application of the generator? For what type of power solution and when? 

I agree that fuel related issues are first to check on and eliminate before going too deep. 

That having been said, I don't use much stabilizer in fuel, truth be told, and have run the same batch of gas for months at a time. I do run engines somewhat regularly to cycle them and have not had a problem in the past several years. I would find it hard to believe just 2 weeks would be enough to have a "fuel problem", but ya never know. If goop had been building up in the carb for a while maybe that was all it needed to jam a jet. 

Before I quasi-acquired my old generator ("borrowed" from grandma before she moved) grandpa had let fuel sit in it for, we assume, years without running. The fuel in the tank had crystalized and turned to varnish - and the same crust went all the way through the line and through the carb. I ended up throwing out the tank and fuel line it was so bad. The carb cleaned up nice. Dads bigger generator was a bit gummed up a few years ago too - didn't have the gunked up tank and line, but the carb needed cleaned. Same deal - cleaned up nice. Both units run great.

Pull the spark plug and see what it looks like inside also. 

Maybe even check wires. If you have an on/off switch make sure the wires are connected, that they havent been bumped and pulled off a terminal, or that mice haven't chewed through them. Make sure you are setting everything right (choke, switch on, etc) for starting also. Its easy to miss something.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

James Condon has an amazing Youtube channel focused on generator troubleshooting and repairs. His editing and depth of detail is excellent:


https://www.youtube.com/user/jcondon2007/videos


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

stonefly said:


> I have a Champion 1500/1200 generator. I'm an over-the-road trucker. When I left to go on the road, two weeks ago, the Champion was working fine. I returned the other day, and the generator will not start, not even a sputter—nothing.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to begin looking for the problem?


start with the basics first.
and some test gear is nice!
spark first.
oil level sensor will kill the spark.
so make sure the unit has plenty of oil.
and you can by pass the sensor for test.
if you have spark
look to fuel.
remove the carb bowl look for trash.
make sure there is some fuel in the bowl.
check flow as well.

check the air filter and make sure it is clean.
report back
what you find


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

I've had the unit for less than 5 months. It has about 400 hours on it. It has performed without fail, once it was running, but has always been difficult to start. It was winter. Sometimes I had to pull it 50 times before it started. I quickly learned to use starting fluid. I drilled a tiny hole in the air filter cover. My starting procedure was then: close the choke, give one short blast of starting fluid at the tiny hole (from a few inches away—only a tiny amount got to the carburetor but it was enough) and pull the cord. It sometimes started on the first pull, but usually the second.

I use mostly ethanol-free fuel but resort to 10% when there is no time to run to the nearest ethanol-free, 10 miles away. I usually let the machine shut off by letting it run out of fuel, and that is how I left it when I went back on the road two weeks ago.

The use of the generator is almost entirely for charging two deep-cycle 12-volt batteries in parallel. When the voltage gets low, I put gas in the generator, crank it up, and let it run until it runs out of gas. By then the batteries are sufficiently charged.

The spark plug has only about 400 hours on it and was working fine two weeks ago when I last ran the generator out of fuel so that there would be no fuel sitting in the bowl while I was gone. I had planned to be gone for longer but needed to come home due to a driveshaft issue with my Freightliner.

The air filter is clean. The gas was fresh when I last ran the unit two weeks ago, and I ran the tank dry before leaving. There is plenty of oil in the crankcase. I change the oil religiously. It looks like honey.

I've hit it with starting fluid, and it does nothing. It has plenty of compression—I can feel it. That only leaves the matter of spark. I disconnected the low oil level sensor, and the black wire coming out of the silver cube, with no change.

I haven't pulled the spark plug yet. That is next. Also, I'm thinking about removing the pull-starter and spinning the engine with my cordless impact wrench.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

get the spark tester
see if you have spark
hummmm
maybe a bad carb!
drop the fuel bowl and see if there is fuel in it!
or pull the spark plug and see if it is wet with gasoline!

rare but it could be a bad coil!
also check the on off switch... it could have internal damage if no spark.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Sometimes the clamp inside the spark plug boot comes loose. Make sure that metal grip to the top of the plug is solid.


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

iowagold said:


> get the spark tester
> see if you have spark
> hummmm
> maybe a bad carb!
> ...


This unit is _new._ It has never been left sitting for long without being used. It has never had anything but fresh gasoline, mostly ethanol-free. I usually allow it to shut itself down by letting it run out of fuel.

I have tried to start it with starting fluid many times, without any success. It has compression. That leaves only the matter of spark. It must not be getting any spark. The weird thing is that it ran fine for the few months that I've had it. Then, after sitting for two weeks, protected from the elements, it has no spark.

You mention a bad coil. This is a possibility. It was always difficult to start without ether, from the moment I took it out of the box. Maybe the coil was weak, providing enough spark to run, but not enough to easily start using the pull cord. Possibly in the two weeks I was gone, the coil died a quiet death from changes in the temperature and humidity.

With regard to a faulty on/off switch, I think I've eliminated that possibility by disconnecting the yellow and black wires coming out of the silver cube, which is a ground diode for the low oil sensor and for allowing the on/off switch to ground the ignition for shut down. With the black wire disconnected, the unit is permanently turned "on" regardless of the position of the switch.


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> Sometimes the clamp inside the spark plug boot comes loose. Make sure that metal grip to the top of the plug is solid.


The metal grip is so solid that I can't pull it off with my hands. My hands and fingers barely fit under the fuel tank in order to get a grip. The metal grip turns, but I can't get a good enough grip to pull it off. Is there a trick to it? I considered getting long-nosed vise grips in order to be able to apply a sufficient upward pull. But not knowing what might be holding it from easily coming off the spark plug, I'm hesitant about using the "brute force" method.


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

I pulled the plug and it looked clean. I reattached the metal boot and held it to ground. I pulled the cord.

Plenty of spark.

Compression is there but feels weak. I put the tip of my finger over the spark plug hole and there is some compression, but I don't know if it's enough.

Two weeks ago, there was enough compression to start the generator on the first pull. Then after only two weeks of sitting, there isn't enough compression to start?????

What gives?

I originally had an Ironton. I think it was 1400/1800. One day it wouldn't start. It had no compression. It was easy to feel that it had no compression, none at all. This Champion feels like it has some compression—at least _some_. The only thing I can think of at this point is to take off the pull start and see if it will start when being spun by a cordless impact wrench.

How can it go from enough compression to start on the first pull to not having enough compression to start at all after sitting for only two weeks, in a protected enclosure?

It's a mystery. I can't figure it.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

stonefly said:


> I pulled the plug and it looked clean. I reattached the metal boot and held it to ground. I pulled the cord.
> 
> Plenty of spark.
> 
> ...


Did you drain the fuel yet? Not sure why it wouldn't start with starting fluid and good spark. Compression is important, and it could be a valve adjustment issue but always try with fresh fuel first. I've seen some generators not work without a full tank of gas, and some are even labeled to that effect.

James had a heck of a time with this particular generator and corrected a lot of issues. Here is the part where he noticed the label about the gas level:


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> Did you drain the fuel yet? Not sure why it wouldn't start with starting fluid and good spark. Compression is important, and it could be a valve adjustment issue but always try with fresh fuel first. I've seen some generators not work without a full tank of gas, and some are even labeled to that effect.
> 
> James had a heck of a time with this particular generator and corrected a lot of issues. Here is the part where he noticed the label about the gas level:


It has fresh fuel. I got it the other day at the local BP. The fuel tank has been empty the last two weeks I was on the road. When I got home, I carried one of my 5-gallon gas containers to the BP and filled it. At the same time, I filled the tank in my NIssan. The Nissan runs fine. I always buy my fuel there.

_It's fresh fuel._

I took off the pull starter. I spun the unit with my cordless impact wrench. It took a while, but the unit fired up and ran, ran good, good as ever. I shut it down. (the on/off switch still works) I started it again with the impact wrench. It seemed like it needed to spin a helluva long time before it fired, but it did. Again, it runs good, good as ever. I shut it down. I left the choke off, sprayed ether into the carburetor, and spun it with the wrench. It started up a little quicker this time.

I replaced the pull starter. Now, when I pull the cord, I can feel full compression—no question about it. *BUT* It won't start. It has good compression, fresh fuel, (and/or ether) and excellent spark, but will only start when spun by the impact wrench. *AND* It arrived at this condition all by itself, in two weeks of sitting in a protected enclosure, while empty of fuel.

Some mysteries will never be solved. I think this one has the potential to be one of those.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

stonefly said:


> It has fresh fuel. I got it the other day at the local BP. The fuel tank has been empty the last two weeks I was on the road. When I got home, I carried one of my 5-gallon gas containers to the BP and filled it. At the same time, I filled the tank in my NIssan. The Nissan runs fine. I always buy my fuel there.
> 
> _It's fresh fuel._
> 
> ...


Hmmm. I would guess that there is an issue with the fuel delivery. When an engine is running, it is pulling vacuum on the fuel line via the carburetor. If there is a restriction or a dirty fuel filter, it may draw enough fuel while running, but perhaps not as easily when starting. Might want to trace from the gas tank all the way to the carburetor and see if there might be something in the line, or even a kinked line.


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> Hmmm. I would guess that there is an issue with the fuel delivery. When an engine is running, it is pulling vacuum on the fuel line via the carburetor. If there is a restriction or a dirty fuel filter, it may draw enough fuel while running, but perhaps not as easily when starting. Might want to trace from the gas tank all the way to the carburetor and see if there might be something in the line, or even a kinked line.


Starting Fluid. It wouldn't fire even with a blast of starting fluid into the carb, neither a tiny squirt nor a good blast.

However, the plot thickens, and now I figure I will be left with the mystery forever. It now starts immediately with one pull on the cord—no problems—no starting fluid—just turn on the choke, pull one time, and turn off the choke—like nothing ever happened.

I cannot figure it out and maybe I never will. It absolutely would not start, with or without ether, no matter how many times I yanked the cord. Then, I got it running by putting the cordless impact wrench on the end of the crank, (11/16 socket) and after spinning for an inordinately long period of time, (30 or more seconds) I could hear the engine running on its own and I pulled away the impact wrench. I did this three times, then I put the pull starter back on and tried it. *NO START* Yet I could feel compression. *BUT NO START* I hit it with ether. *NO START*

I gave up. I have other things to do. (I need to replace the clutch slave cylinder in my Nissan)

Yes! I gave up on it. I tried everything and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start with the pull cord—with good compression, good spark, and starting ether.

Then, I went back to it about an hour later, figuring, what the heck, no harm in giving it another try. I turned on the choke, (no ether) I pulled the cord, and it started, first pull. I've tried it several times since, and it starts on first pull.

It's now starting better than it ever did. 

I have no idea what happened.

none

none

none

none

If somebody else can figure it out, I'm all ears.


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

And thanks for all the replies from everyone.

Browse Deweb, the youtube link you provided is excellent.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

stonefly said:


> And thanks for all the replies from everyone.
> 
> Browse Deweb, the youtube link you provided is excellent.


My pleasure! I'm not ashamed to say that I watch these generator repair videos almost every night on my TV in the bedroom as a way to wind down before sleep. James Condon definitely has the best channel for this kind of stuff. 

Small Engine Mechanic is also pretty interesting but he does a lot of older diesel stuff:


https://www.youtube.com/user/SmallEngineMechanic/videos



If you're interested in off grid living, Shawn James is by far the best with his cinematography. He has two channels, one with little talking, and the other with shorter clips and discussion:



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIMXKin1fXXCeq2UJePJEog/videos




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5L_M7BF5iait4FzEbwKCAg/videos



If watching on a computer, you can use Adblock for Youtube to eliminate the ads & commercials.








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## Ground Fault (Jun 9, 2020)

Spark
Fuel
Compression
Timing

Beer thirty


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

Ground Fault said:


> Spark
> Fuel
> Compression
> Timing
> ...


I've known that all my life, practically. I started playing around with motors as a kid. Now I'm 75 years old. Spark, fuel, compression, timing—and it's got to run.

And now, I run into an engine that has good spark, good fuel, good compression, correct timing—and it won't start—not even a sputter.

I managed to start it by putting an impact wrench on it and spinning it faster than it ordinarily turns. It takes 30 seconds doing this for the engine to start running on its own. I do this three times. I put the pull starter back on—ether—no start.

I come back an hour later—it starts.

It now starts easier than it ever did.


Beer thirty


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## stonefly (May 25, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> My pleasure! I'm not ashamed to say that I watch these generator repair videos almost every night on my TV in the bedroom as a way to wind down before sleep. James Condon definitely has the best channel for this kind of stuff.
> 
> Small Engine Mechanic is also pretty interesting but he does a lot of older diesel stuff:
> 
> ...


Thanks, Browse Deweb—got 'em bookmarked.

(how much does the Adblock cost?)


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

stonefly said:


> Thanks, Browse Deweb—got 'em bookmarked.
> 
> (how much does the Adblock cost?)


Free


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## Airstreamer67 (Oct 3, 2020)

stonefly said:


> Starting Fluid. It wouldn't fire even with a blast of starting fluid into the carb, neither a tiny squirt nor a good blast.
> 
> However, the plot thickens, and now I figure I will be left with the mystery forever. It now starts immediately with one pull on the cord—no problems—no starting fluid—just turn on the choke, pull one time, and turn off the choke—like nothing ever happened.
> 
> ...



Watch the movie "Christine." 

Machines have feelings too. :-0


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

I’m thinking that there might have been some debris/carbon keeping a valve from seating fully. Spinning it fast with an impact and simply forcing it to run due to the high speed cranking may have dislodged the carbon??? Good news regardless. Dutchy


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## Benthere (May 28, 2021)

stonefly said:


> I have a Champion 1500/1200 generator. I'm an over-the-road trucker. When I left to go on the road, two weeks ago, the Champion was working fine. I returned the other day, and the generator will not start, not even a sputter—nothing.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to begin looking for the problem?


Ben there done all that. After a month of no starts I got ahold of an engineer who is familiar with these engines. He told me to Adjust the valves they were .003-4 thou. off settings .I adjusted the valves , I'll be darned Started first pull. Runs great since .


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

coil can still be bad.
some of the spark units are weak inside... and even check ok!
thermal bad as well as bad under a load.
if it had good spark, and compression of at least 70 psi it should start,
have you checked the valve lash settings?
that would be a great idea!
even with low hours i have seen them get tight to leave the unit in de compression.

also check any exhaust screens if there are any on this gen set.
some are at the out put to the muffler and some are on the inlet.


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