# EU7000is won't start - electrically dead



## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

Brand new EU7000is that has been started up a few times and worked perfectly
Tried to start it today - turned key, pressed start button. Made a little starter noise and then went dead.

By dead I mean no LEDs lit up... nothing, zip.
So okay I thought the battery was dead. I'm in Alaska and it's currently -20 so things don't work so great.
Took battery inside to warm and charge. 
It was not dead and charged to fully pretty quickly.

Re-connected the battery and still it's dead stick. LIke I said, not a single LED lights up just DEAD

And that's where I'm at.

?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Looking at the manual (p. 63), check the fuses (15A and 3A) if any of them are blown.

Try using the recoil to see if the engine is free to rotate. I'm guessing that the extremely cold weather may have caused the engine to seize and made the starter pull a lot of current.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

also what weight of oil are you using up there?
we use 0-20 oil in the cold weather on the eu7000is gens.
i bet the battery is frozen.
it need to warm up for at least 2 days or place it in a warm water bath below the top by 1/2 and inch till the case is at least 70 deg f.
then charge the battery.
a battery blanket is a great idea for below 10 deg F


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Yep, battery is toast. Have it load tested or replaced and Keep it on a maintainer if possible. Run the generator every month for 30 minutes with a load on it, or other problems will arise…


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## CrAshford (Dec 30, 2021)

fensterbaby said:


> Brand new EU7000is that has been started up a few times and worked perfectly
> Tried to start it today - turned key, pressed start button. Made a little starter noise and then went dead.
> 
> By dead I mean no LEDs lit up... nothing, zip.
> ...


Are there any codes on the I-monitor? I just posted in a thread where there was a batt code and unit would not run at all. I ended up replacing the GCU but hopefully this is not the case. Most units don't like the cold so like the other guys said. Keep the battery inside to let it warm up. My advice is to try and keep the generator in the warm if that's an option for you.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I hope you're not storing the generator in -20 degree weather. That would not be good for the battery or the oil. Internal wiring, imperfect solder joints and crimp connectors can also be affected by severe cold, though this is very uncommon. You can try hooking up a good 12V car battery to see if it will run using the electric start. Pull starting should also work. Highly recommend using a battery tender when not in use and thinner winter weight oil for your climate.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

fensterbaby said:


> Brand new EU7000is that has been started up a few times and worked perfectly
> Tried to start it today - turned key, pressed start button. Made a little starter noise and then went dead.
> 
> By dead I mean no LEDs lit up... nothing, zip.
> ...


Another option is to open the right side door (facing the unit) turn the key to on and attempt pull starting the unit. see what happens.


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

OrlyP said:


> Looking at the manual (p. 63), check the fuses (15A and 3A) if any of them are blown.
> 
> Try using the recoil to see if the engine is free to rotate. I'm guessing that the extremely cold weather may have caused the engine to seize and made the starter pull a lot of current.


Yup
Blown fuse
Will try to start via recoil but first going to warm it up a bit

battery is fine, never lost charge so didn’t freeze

battery won’t freeze as long as it has charge
Agree that I need to get a battery tender on there

thanks


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## VelvetFoot (Nov 11, 2019)

But why did the fuse blow?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

fensterbaby said:


> Yup
> Blown fuse
> Will try to start via recoil but first going to warm it up a bit
> 
> ...





VelvetFoot said:


> But why did the fuse blow?


Yeah, unusual, which of the fuses popped?


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

VelvetFoot said:


> But why did the fuse blow?


Good question
I’ve tried to start engines that were super cold before
Starter might labor mightily but never blew a fuse

hopefully once I get it warmed a bitI can start with recoil


drmerdp said:


> Yeah, unusual, which of the fuses popped?


It was the 15 amp.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Happy that you found what the issue was. Hopefully the blown fuse was just an anomaly and doesn’t happen again. Might be wise to have a spare. I use Amsoil Synthetic Small Engine Oil in my Honda engines, the 10w30, which is the preferred weight for Honda engines. But I’d suggest the 5w30 which has a pour point of -45C, due to your climate, if you can find it. Or order it online. pm for a link.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

fensterbaby said:


> Good question
> I’ve tried to start engines that were super cold before
> Starter might labor mightily but never blew a fuse
> 
> ...


The 15amp fuse is the master fuse, it feeds power through the 3amp which powers GCU Logic. It also appears to have a direct feed to the GCU as the power source for triggering the starter solenoid. The starter itself is high current is powered by the battery but the starter solenoid doesn’t require much current to activate.

Its unusual to hear of one of the fuses blowing to excess current, but extreme cold can be at fault and is an easy place to place the blame.

Lower viscosity oil definitely would be applicable for -20 degrees and would put less strain on the starting system. If a thinner oil doesn't remedy reoccurrences potentially there may be an intermittent short to ground (unlikely). Or a faulty starter (unlikely). A 20amp fuse in place of the 15amp (last resort) might be a reasonable work around. Assuming that this only occurs when temps are WAY below freezing.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

If adapting the generator for cold starting, I'd probably use a slow-blow 15A fuse instead of a standard 20A.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

OrlyP said:


> If adapting the generator for cold starting, I'd probably use a slow-blow 15A fuse instead of a standard 20A.


👍 I also thought about that, but I’ve never actually seen such that small of a slow blow(time delay) ATO fuse.


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

warmed up the gennie and it started on second pull easy peazy. So now I'm charging my battery bank

Am sure the fuse blow was cold related, Reading about -30 F. this morning. So in the future I'll have to warm it up when it's this cold.

I'm a long time user of Hondas but mostly EU1000 and 2000. This 7000 is a new thing for me so thanks for all the feedback and ideas guys!

Yeah we use 5-30 oil up here for pretty much everything


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

drmerdp said:


> 👍 I also thought about that, but I’ve never actually seen such that small of a slow blow(time delay) ATO fuse.


so far haven't found any slo-bo fuses below 20 amp


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Minus 30F must be an experience. I don't think I've ever experienced that low a temperature, though I did some high elevation skiing once on a day with high winds where the wind chill at the summit was said to be -47F. Not many people were out on the mountain that day. If you weren't fully covered with full face mask, you basically couldn't do it and your feet would freeze regardless. Kinda crazy.


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

Browse Deweb said:


> Minus 30F must be an experience. I don't think I've ever experienced that low a temperature, though I did some high elevation skiing once on a day with high winds where the wind chill at the summit was said to be -47F. Not many people were out on the mountain that day. If you weren't fully covered with full face mask, you basically couldn't do it and your feet would freeze regardless. Kinda crazy.


ha ha
Yeah it’s around -40 today so about as bad as it gets where I am. You really don’t even think about trying to start machines in this weather.

had to get the gennie going but turning over a truck engine? ***etaboutit

only go out the door to get an armload of firewood off the porch


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Oct 23, 2021)

Once we hit zero or thereabouts (quite a few times per winter season) on down to about -20 (lowest I've ever seen), we also give up on working with equipment outside. The gennies are OK to about 10 degrees, then iffy below that to zero, and then impossible below zero.

One thing this has forced on us in our off-grid location is the concept of heated utility sheds or outbuildings ... it isn't enough to keep the rain out all seasons, we also have to heat the structure (propane heaters w/ thermostats) in the bitter winter months.

In the case of gennies, which need pretty good ventilation, the structure is in place (8' x 16' open-air shed w/ roof) for those, but I'm still working out the panels that let us leave things open in the spring/summer/fall (for maximum work area where we run long materials thru the shop half, powered by the genny half), and close things in the winter months. We need just enough coverings (6 x 8'x8' sections) such that a propane heater raises the inside temp to something above freezing ...

Leaning towards a dense mesh covering material, but not really decided yet ...

If I achieve this, then the boss may make me work outside all winter long ... double-edged sword ...


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

fensterbaby said:


> ha ha
> Yeah it’s around -40 today so about as bad as it gets where I am. You really don’t even think about trying to start machines in this weather.
> 
> had to get the gennie going but turning over a truck engine? ***etaboutit
> ...


Yikes that’s cold. Iowagolds suggestion of 0w-20 or 0w-30 might be prudent.

I’m curious, did your eu7000 come equipped with the PCV heater? I think it’s standard on Canadian models and an option on US models.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> One thing this has forced on us in our off-grid location is the concept of heated utility sheds or outbuildings ... it isn't enough to keep the rain out all seasons, we also have to heat the structure (propane heaters w/ thermostats) in the bitter winter months.


A friend of mine added a nice big garage to his house. He installed a hydronic radiant floor heating system embedded into the poured concrete floor. The heat source is a basic 6 gallon 1500watt 120v electric water heater. He claims his garage is a comfortable 60 something degrees in the winter and it barely made a dent in his electricity bill. Once the concrete warms up it stays warm and requires very little energy to maintain temp. 

Given a fairly well insulated structure I wonder if this would be practical or even sustainable for an off grid setup. Maybe propane instead of electric. I dunno, just thinking out loud.


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## fensterbaby (Jan 4, 2022)

drmerdp said:


> Yikes that’s cold. Iowagolds suggestion of 0w-20 or 0w-30 might be prudent.
> 
> I’m curious, did your eu7000 come equipped with the PCV heater? I think it’s standard on Canadian models and an option on US models.


don’t think it does

a breather tube heater is an option


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

Um, mine is outside. Battery is 5 years old. It goes most of the summer without running. Still kicks off like new in the winter. I use 10-30 Mobile1 year around. Its gotten to 3f lately. I am in generator season and it runs 3hrs/day.

I ONLY run non ethanol gas. Fortunately I don't have to deal with temps below zero for more than a few hours overnight. Plz consider your fuel and fueling procedure. If ethanol, never turn the jug upside down for the last few drops.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

fensterbaby said:


> don’t think it does
> 
> a breather tube heater is an option


Hmm I’m surprised dealers near you would sell you the generator without the breather heater installed.


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

JRHill said:


> Its gotten to 3f lately.


Oh, sorry, I missed the post about how cold it was getting there. Wow, that's really cold. CV-19 just kind of falls to the ground, eh?


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Are we talking -20c or -20f here, because there's a big difference?


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Mr. Speedy, slow down and pay attention. He’s in Alaska. I know you’re in the UK, but anyone that hears Alaska mentioned knows how cold it can get there. Why -20C they’re still wearing shorts. At -20F they start thinking about wearing long sleeve shirts. Both temps are frigging cold…LOL Everything in Alaska is extreme. Mosquitoes there are killed with birdshot.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol on the skeeders and bird shot.....
i thought they used guided missiles to kill the skeeders in ak!
almost as big as the canada birds!
when the storms blow down a few from way up north
we see them here in Iowa...
BIG suckers!!
WOW!
you get a bruise when they land!
lol!
just having fun this am!
and -1 F this am here in Iowa and is to get down to -10F tonight 
super cold for sure..
hard on cattle!


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

iowagold said:


> and -1 F this am here in Iowa and is to get down to -10F tonight
> super cold for sure..


Between that and snow drifts almost to the power lines, tornados and summer humidity that is the same number as the temperature and a few more reasons - I haven't regretted moving to the PNW. But the people... I surely miss big hearted mid west country folk.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

-4 deg F at 11:00 pm here right now.
i just got back in from checking block heaters on all equipment here.
BURRRR!
lol!
wear a mask is a normal smart thing here in Iowa winter so you do not freeze the lungs when working outside.
you get a bit of pre heat when huffing and puffing when doing real work.
and thinsulate insulated item is a must for the wind!


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

fensterbaby said:


> so far haven't found any slo-bo fuses below 20 amp


You can use a fuse holder with its ends crimped onto a pair of spades that would fit the OEM 15A ATO fuse socket.

For the fuse, here's a 15A slow-blow ceramic fuse, which should fit the above fuse holder.

It's just a question of fitment or if there's room to route and hide the pigtail. I reckon there's some headroom in the battery compartment to slip this in.


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## Epotential (Dec 4, 2021)

speedy2019 said:


> Are we talking -20c or -20f here, because there's a big difference?


Not sure I get the Celsius vs. Fahrenheit thing. 

A number in Fahrenheit is colder than the same number in Celsius? 

But I knew a guy from Alaska who was visiting the Yukon when it was -40 C. He said it didn't seem any warmer than when it was -40 F in Alaska.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Epotential said:


> Not sure I get the Celsius vs. Fahrenheit thing.
> A number in Fahrenheit is colder than the same number in Celsius?


-20C = -4F
-20F = -29C


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Or -40F = -40C 😬 Dang cold no matter which scale…. Also water freezes at 0C or 32F and boils at 100C or 212F.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

Im guessing diesel engines are more likely to start than petrol engines in really cold conditions because of the warming up the engine from the glowplugs? But it takes more power out of the battery with the starting of the engine and heating up the plugs


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## Epotential (Dec 4, 2021)

Epotential said:


> ...
> But I knew a guy from Alaska who was visiting the Yukon when it was -40 C. He said it didn't seem any warmer than when it was -40 F in Alaska.


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

speedy2019 said:


> Im guessing diesel engines are more likely to start than petrol engines in really cold conditions because of the warming up the engine from the glowplugs? But it takes more power out of the battery with the starting of the engine and heating up the plugs


Not. Glow plugs do not heat the engine, only the combustion chamber or a moment. If you are not diesel oriented don't guess. Yes, glow plugs pull a bunch of amps but they also get the battery chemistry going before you turn the key to start. That's why there are typically two batteries. I takes a bunch of amps.

I love diesels. I don't have a diesel pickup cause I wouldn't work it hard enough. But I have several on site diesels and love em.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

I'd say that in sub-freezing temperatures, it's painful to watch either gas or Diesel engine struggle at starting. When they say that most of the wear and tear happens during cold starts, that's especially true in frigid weather.

I own a Diesel and the coldest it's been to is up in our local boonies in the low 10s °C weather. Using a 10W40 oil, it still takes a few seconds for the clatter in the engine to quiet down after starting from cold.

But BTT, how is the OP doing? Did replacing the 15A fuse solve the problem with the electrics? Might've missed that one if it did.


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

OrlyP said:


> I'd say that in sub-freezing temperatures, it's painful to watch either gas or Diesel engine struggle at starting. When they say that most of the wear and tear happens during cold starts, that's especially true in frigid weather.
> 
> I own a Diesel and the coldest it's been to is up in our local boonies in the low 10s °C weather. Using a 10W40 oil, it still takes a few seconds for the clatter in the engine to quiet down after starting from cold.
> 
> But BTT, how is the OP doing? Did replacing the 15A fuse solve the problem with the electrics? Might've missed that one if it did.


That's why God created the block heater.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

T


JRHill said:


> That's why God created the block heater.


True that.

If you have one for the car, it's typically a no-brainer to have one also for the generator.... unless it's always stored somewhere toasty.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i run block heaters, battery chargers, and battery blanket heaters on all of the equipment for winter.
i make cords that are one inlet plug and tri split for 3 outlets so in summer the heaters can be unplugged.
and we get 8 to 10 years now on the batteries as a result!
batteries are $120.00 to 190.00 usd each on these rigs....
so the heaters are a parking ticket compared to replacing a battery that is cold damaged split case due to frozen during an extreme cold start up.
yes at -20F or colder if you pull enough current on a battery it will instant freeze as the acid goes from that state to water.
and boom instant expanding ice block!
it will split a case on a battery and or damage the internal spacing on the plates to make the battery short out or not as good as designed.
more in another post!


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

You’d be amazed at the difference a good synthetic oil makes in an extreme temperature situation. Most notable in cold starts or in reduced operating temperatures during hot weather. I’ve experienced the benefits and use synthetic oil in every piece of equipment that I hold dear…😉


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## Terry Pedersen (12 mo ago)

fensterbaby said:


> Good question
> I’ve tried to start engines that were super cold before
> Starter might labor mightily but never blew a fuse
> 
> ...


I have 2 of these 7000’s at our cottage and they will not start using the electric start when below -28 to -30C around -20F give or take without the 15 amp fuses blowing. You have to hand pull them when it’s cold or you will go through a lot of fuses. Design flaw that is common if you google it. Tempted to try a 20 amp fuse some time but worried about the consequences. Mine are 2018 and 2020 models.


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## Terry Pedersen (12 mo ago)

Terry Pedersen said:


> I have 2 of these 7000’s at our cottage and they will not start using the electric start when below -28 to -30C around -20F give or take without the 15 amp fuses blowing. You have to hand pull them when it’s cold or you will go through a lot of fuses. Design flaw that is common if you google it. Tempted to try a 20 amp fuse some time but worried about the consequences. Mine are 2018 and 2020 models.


Failed to mention that I changed the batteries to external car batteries with battery tenders so no issue with power. The original batteries struggled with the cold.


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

Terry Pedersen said:


> Failed to mention that I changed the batteries to external car batteries with battery tenders so no issue with power. The original batteries struggled with the cold.


Fortunately we don't have temps that cold. In fact the genset is 4+ YO and I've never pull started it and have the original battery. But at last oil change the handle was hanging over so I pulled it slightly. OhNo, mouse damage on the cord! How the heck did that critter get in there? I wonder how many are in there? Anyway, I need to pull the cord while running or with the plug out, I don't want to lose the cord into the recoil. My gosh that is not a disassembly I want.

BTW, my EU7000 runs daily in the winter. I have not noted any sluggishness yet. It'll probably be one of those good today dead tomorrow things.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Terry Pedersen said:


> I have 2 of these 7000’s at our cottage and they will not start using the electric start when below -28 to -30C around -20F give or take without the 15 amp fuses blowing. You have to hand pull them when it’s cold or you will go through a lot of fuses. Design flaw that is common if you google it. Tempted to try a 20 amp fuse some time but worried about the consequences. Mine are 2018 and 2020 models.


In your experience, when the fuse pops does the starter…
A) crank the engine over momentarily before the fuse pops.
B) Starter engages with an audible click but doesn’t crank.
C) No audible engagement never cranks.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Terry Pedersen said:


> I have 2 of these 7000’s at our cottage and they will not start using the electric start when below -28 to -30C around -20F give or take without the 15 amp fuses blowing. You have to hand pull them when it’s cold or you will go through a lot of fuses. Mine are 2018 and 2020 models.


Terry, what oil are you using and what viscosity? A good synthetic oil will make a difference. Not all oils are made equal. They do have to meet “minimum” standards and that’s what most do, minimum. I use Amsoil Synthetic Small Engine Oil in all my small engines and it makes a difference. Very low pour point and yet a very high flash point too. High ZDDP levels to minimize wear and can protect up to 200 hours in a pinch. Sometimes at oil change time it still looks so good that I wonder if it was necessary. Car oils aren’t made for the extreme service that most small engines operate in. At the very least use a synthetic motorcycle oil if you can find it in the recommended viscosity. pm if you want a link to Amsoil. I order it factory direct and it’s usually on my porch within 2 days…😉


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## JRHill (Nov 19, 2020)

Terry Pedersen said:


> I have 2 of these 7000’s at our cottage and they will not start using the electric start when below -28 to -30C around -20F give or take without the 15 amp fuses blowing.


 Wow. One $4000 generator is a hit. And you bought another? Why not a third?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

I'm aware of the irony but it may be best to just use the recoil in sub-zero weather to save the main fuse from popping.

Is this something Honda should be aware of? Maybe put it in a service bulletin NOT to use the electric starter if the ambient temp is minus-X degrees or something?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Terry Pedersen said:


> Failed to mention that I changed the batteries to external car batteries with battery tenders so no issue with power. The original batteries struggled with the cold.


are you running battery blankets to keep the car batteries warm?
-20F is cold
what weight of engine oil are you running?
try a 0-30 oil
as well as a heater for the engine block.
you could use separated batteries from the start batteries to run the block and battery heaters.

or pipe waste heat in from the cottage to the gen shack.
do a heat re claimer coil setup around the wood stove pipe and run out to the gen shack.
you can use oil on that setup to make an oil piped convection heater.
better yet with a small flow 12 volt pump for the flow.


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