# Wrong voltage



## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

I have a small boat which I power with 2 x 24volt, 2000 watt, Electric motors. They are connected to 2 x 12v 100ah batteries wired in series for 24v. I have 2 x 200watt solar panels to charge them (given enough days between use). I decided I needed to supplement the system by adding a DC generator to the system for when I need more run time than the batteries can provide. So I looked around and finally found a 24volt 5000watt, Inverter controlled, auto start generator. Unfortunately it was from Asia and fairly expensive with shipping and everything but against my best judgment I ordered it. When it arrived it had a small sticker on the generator saying *72volt*. I tried returning it but I would have to pay all shipping costs both directions which is out of my budget so *I'm stuck with it*. So the first thing I did was get six batteries (72v) to try and start it. Nothing happened when I pushed the start button (no surprise). So I used the backup manual pull start and it started. Then I put a multimeter on the output and it said it was putting out 24v at idle and 60v at full throttle. Is there any way I can safely connect this to charge my 24v batteries? I admit I'm a amateur at this. 

Thank You


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I have a small boat which I power with 2 x 24volt, 2000 watt, Electric motors. They are connected to 2 x 12v 100ah batteries wired in series for 24v. I have 2 x 200watt solar panels to charge them (given enough days between use). I decided I needed to supplement the system by adding a DC generator to the system for when I need more run time than the batteries can provide. So I looked around and finally found a 24volt 5000watt, Inverter controlled, auto start generator. Unfortunately it was from Asia and fairly expensive with shipping and everything but against my best judgment I ordered it. When it arrived it had a small sticker on the generator saying *72volt*. I tried returning it but I would have to pay all shipping costs both directions which is out of my budget so *I'm stuck with it*. So the first thing I did was get six batteries (72v) to try and start it. Nothing happened when I pushed the start button (no surprise). So I used the backup manual pull start and it started. Then I put a multimeter on the output and it said it was putting out 24v at idle and 60v at full throttle. Is there any way I can safely connect this to charge my 24v batteries? I admit I'm a amateur at this.
> 
> Thank You


Not a problem. You really need one more item to do what you want.
It's normal for a DC generator to put out higher voltage without a load.
Also you need to have some way to control the current and voltage going into the batteries.
What you need to complete your project is an MPPT Charge Controller.
Read the manual in the second link I posted here.
This charger will accept up to 90v DC input.
These are normally used with solar panels to charge battery banks.









Renogy Rover 40 Amp 12V/24V DC Input MPPT Solar Charge Controller Auto Parameter Adjustable LCD Display RNG-CTRL-RVR40 - The Home Depot


Meet the newly redesigned 40A Rover MPPT Charge Controller. This smart charge controller is capable of conveniently self-diagnosing itself in the event of an error and can be used with the Bluetooth Module,



www.homedepot.com







https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/7b/7b19a3fd-fa94-473d-aa96-3a75baae1469.pdf


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

"When it arrived it had a small sticker on the generator saying *72volt*. I tried returning it but I would have to pay all shipping costs both directions which is out of my budget so *I'm stuck with it*. So the first thing I did was get six batteries (72v) to try and start it. Nothing happened when I pushed the start button (no surprise)."

Try a 12v battery for the starter. I think the 72v is in reference to max output voltage.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Not a problem. You really need one more item to do what you want.
> It's normal for a DC generator to put out higher voltage without a load.
> Also you need to have some way to control the current and voltage going into the batteries.
> What you need to complete your project is an MPPT Charge Controller.
> ...



Thank you

I was hoping I could run the electric motors directly off of the generator, they are 4000 watts (2000x2) but I guess that wont be possible. Also its weird the way its described (and looks) it doesn't have a separate starter. Instead the generator portion itself is the starter. This is the exact version I have (the 5KW Inverter version)











251.0US $ |3KW 4KW 5KW low noise 24V48V60V72V electric car tricycle four wheeler range extender gasoline generator|Flanges| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Thank you
> 
> I was hoping I could run the electric motors directly off of the generator, they are 4000 watts (2000x2) but I guess that wont be possible. Also its weird the way its described (and looks) it doesn't have a separate starter. Instead the generator portion itself is the starter. This is the exact version I have (the 5KW Inverter version)
> 
> ...


After shipping etc, it was $550 cad. Shipping it back and return would cost an additional $700


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> After shipping etc, it was $550 cad. Shipping it back and return would cost an additional $700


Also the MPPT you posted says its only good till 40amps, Isn't 5000 watts a lot more than 40 amps. Told you I'm a amateur. And again thanks for your help


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Is that a 3 wire output I see on that generator. All my information above is null if that is the case. Did you get any documentation or wiring schematics?
So, these are actually called range extenders according to that web page.
Also, I see farther down the page it says "
Remarks: Buy the inverter range extender, please note the voltage or contact us!"
Looks like you may have the 72v model.
I don't know where to go from here.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Is that a 3 wire output I see on that generator. All my information above is null if that is the case. Did you get any documentation or wiring schematics?
> So, these are actually called range extenders according to that web page.
> Also, I see farther down the page it says "
> Remarks: Buy the inverter range extender, please note the voltage or contact us!"
> ...


Thanks again 

It does have 3 wires coming out but then they go into a rectifier after that its just two wires (positive and negative). I did request the 24v model on the order page itself and in a private message they assured me that was what they sent and then when I got it, It said 72v on a sticker. But when I put a multi-meter on it I get between 24v and 60v. Never reaches 72v. It is called a range extender but I was told that the difference between a range extender generator and a normal one is a range extender generator is suppose to start automatically when the battery gets low. It did not come with any documentation. 
The idea I had hoped for when I ordered it was I run on batteries when they get low the generator starts and I can keep going on that. I had looked at running a regular household generator. But couldn't figure out how to change the voltage to 24v and still keep enough wattage (4000) to run the electric motors. If you have any ideas at all please.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Thanks again
> 
> It does have 3 wires coming out but then they go into a rectifier after that its just two wires (positive and negative). I did request the 24v model on the order page itself and in a private message they assured me that was what they sent and then when I got it, It said 72v on a sticker. But when I put a multi-meter on it I get between 24v and 60v. Never reaches 72v. It is called a range extender but I was told that the difference between a range extender generator and a normal one is a range extender generator is suppose to start automatically when the battery gets low. It did not come with any documentation.
> The idea I had hoped for when I ordered it was I run on batteries when they get low the generator starts and I can keep going on that. I had looked at running a regular household generator. But couldn't figure out how to change the voltage to 24v and still keep enough wattage (4000) to run the electric motors. If you have any ideas at all please.


Trial by error here.
Do this OUTSIDE, AT YOUR OWN RISK! Hey, hold my beer and watch this. (Stand back)
Find two cheap lawnmower 12V batteries. 
Charge them up with a regular battery charger. 
Wire them together as you would with your boat batteries. 24V
Connect your range extender like you would connect your solar charger. Set your multimeter up so you can monitor the battery voltage where your range extender is connected to the batteries. 
Connect a load to your batteries like you would connect your boat motors. Include an on/off switch. You could use a 110V space heater for this.
Turn your multimeter on so you can read the battery voltage.
Turn your space heater (if this is what you are using) on to low.
See if the range extender starts when the voltage gets below 12V.
If the range extender does not start then start it manually. If the voltage goes above 32V to for very long, shut it down.
Shut off the space heater and recharge your batteries using a standard battery charger.

Note: It would be a good idea to also have a clamp on AMP meter on one of the range extender wires connected to your batteries to monitor the current the range extender is putting out.

That's the best I can think of.
Be careful of exploding batteries.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Trial by error here.
> Do this OUTSIDE, AT YOUR OWN RISK! Hey, hold my beer and watch this. (Stand back)
> Find two cheap lawnmower 12V batteries.
> Charge them up with a regular battery charger.
> ...





Old man here said:


> Trial by error here.
> Do this OUTSIDE, AT YOUR OWN RISK! Hey, hold my beer and watch this. (Stand back)
> Find two cheap lawnmower 12V batteries.
> Charge them up with a regular battery charger.
> ...



Thanks
I will try this as soon as the weather improves a little bit. trying it in a blizzard not fun. Its been awhile since I blew anything up could be fun. One question you said I could use a space heater as a load. I'm guessing I would have to run that through a large inverter first? to get the 110v


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Thanks
> I will try this as soon as the weather improves a little bit. trying it in a blizzard not fun. Its been awhile since I blew anything up could be fun. One question you said I could use a space heater as a load. I'm guessing I would have to run that through a large inverter first? to get the 110v


A space heater is "resistive" heat. It doesn't care what the voltage is. It just won't get very hot. It will draw current just like a light bulb. You don't need to do anything but come up with a convenient way to wire it to the batteries. 
Sacrifice a cheap two prong extension cord. plug your fan into it, cut the male end off the extension cord. Strip the wires and hook them to your batteries.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Thank you again I will try that for sure


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Thank you again I will try that for sure


Be sure and keep us updated on your science experiment.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Be sure and keep us updated on your science experiment.


Quick question: (I haven't tried the experiment yet) : I know the voltage increases when the RPM increases. I'm assuming then that the watts do to? Its rated at 5000watts. I'm guessing it only achieves that at full throttle?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

null


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

iowagold said:


> watts is by the winding diameter of the wire size.
> more voltage the less watts by theory or ohms law with more speed...
> unless you are using a step down transformer.
> 
> ...


This unit puts out DC power. No hz in DC power.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

i retract my statement.
lol


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Quick question: (I haven't tried the experiment yet) : I know the voltage increases when the RPM increases. I'm assuming then that the watts do to? Its rated at 5000watts. I'm guessing it only achieves that at full throttle?


Could you post photos of the controller that hooks up between the range extender and the batteries? I'm interested in the wiring on the input side, and the output side to the batteries.

I understand the voltage increasing with RPM but, you can have higher voltage without higher current. The controller may limit the current(wattage) depending on the demand of the state of charge of the batteries (like a battery charger) and the load placed on the batteries by the item(boat motors, your heater or light bulbs, etc.).
It may be possible for this controller to limit the voltage to the voltage requirements needed for the batteries.
One thing I noticed on the pages linked to the product you listed, it showed two photos.one with the unit hooked up to batteries saying "Good" , and one photo with the unit not hooked up to batteries with a warning "Damage".

One point I will make here, This unit is not designed to be connected directly to your boat motors!
Photos of the unit and controller would be nice to study.


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## Todd_B (Aug 12, 2020)

Any luck solving your problem yet?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Not


Todd_B said:


> Any luck solving your problem yet?
> [/QUOTE
> Not yet :-(





Old man here said:


> Could you post photos of the controller that hooks up between the range extender and the batteries? I'm interested in the wiring on the input side, and the output side to the batteries.
> 
> I understand the voltage increasing with RPM but, you can have higher voltage without higher current. The controller may limit the current(wattage) depending on the demand of the state of charge of the batteries (like a battery charger) and the load placed on the batteries by the item(boat motors, your heater or light bulbs, etc.).
> It may be possible for this controller to limit the voltage to the voltage requirements needed for the batteries.
> ...


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Not
> 
> 
> View attachment 8714
> ...


The small green wires go to a momentary switch (start). The large Green,Yellow, Blue go to the rectifier. Red and black go to power


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

I think I know what happened. I opened the controller and pulled the board out and it says on the board 24v. What I think happened is. I ordered a 24v generator. And all there generators are 72v but the controller changes it somehow to 24v. So when I saw the 72v sticker I thought they sent the wrong one so I put 72v worth of batteries on it and fried the controller. Do you think that's possible?


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I think I know what happened. I opened the controller and pulled the board out and it says on the board 24v. What I think happened is. I ordered a 24v generator. And all there generators are 72v but the controller changes it somehow to 24v. So when I saw the 72v sticker I thought they sent the wrong one so I put 72v worth of batteries on it and fried the controller. Do you think that's possible?


Try it with just 24V of batteries. If the controller is still working it will put out 24V. If you fried it it will not put out any voltage.

In your first post you stated:
"Then I put a multimeter on the output and it said it was putting out 24v at idle and 60v at full throttle. Is there any way I can safely connect this to charge my 24v batteries?"

It is quite possible you were reading the battery voltage when you did that test.
Test again with 24V and a load on the batteries.
This is where a clamp on amp meter will come in handy, so you can see if the controller is putting out current as well as voltage.
Measure the current your load is drawing from the batteries without the range extender running first, then move the clamp meter to one range extender wire going to the batteries and you can see if it is putting out current.
If you don't have a clamp meter, often Auto Parts stores have a free tool loan service or tool rental.
Curiosity is killing the cat here!
Something like this:
Bside ACM91 1mA Clamp Meter DC/AC Current True RMS Auto-Ranging 6000 Counts Multimeter Live Check V-Alert Temperature Capacitance Frequency Tester with Back Clip: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

P.S. You can rewire those 6 batteries for 24V using a combination of series/parallel wiring.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Try it with just 24V of batteries. If the controller is still working it will put out 24V. If you fried it it will not put out any voltage.
> 
> In your first post you stated:
> "Then I put a multimeter on the output and it said it was putting out 24v at idle and 60v at full throttle. Is there any way I can safely connect this to charge my 24v batteries?"
> ...



I'll go buy an Amp meter as soon as the stores are allowed to reopen (Feb 8th). We are in Covid lockdown right now and basically only grocery stores are allowed to be open. Even places like walmart have to tape off all but the food aisles. When I tested the generator I removed the batteries to see if it was putting voltage out on its own. That's when I saw the 24v-60v 

Thank You Again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I'll go buy an Amp meter as soon as the stores are allowed to reopen (Feb 8th). We are in Covid lockdown right now and basically only grocery stores are allowed to be open. Even places like walmart have to tape off all but the food aisles. When I tested the generator I removed the batteries to see if it was putting voltage out on its own. That's when I saw the 24v-60v
> 
> Thank You Again


I suppose you could still test the output using only your volt meter. As long as the voltage is above 24V you will verify that it is putting out power.

Typically a charging system on a car or lawnmower will put out around 14.6V while running.
When the voltage of the battery is low or you have your headlights or AC turned on, the alternator will put out more current. As the battery voltage comes up or you turn off your headlights, the current will drop.

If your range extender is putting out between 28 to 30V, at least you know it is working.
You only need an amp meter to assure it is putting out the current required for the load placed on the batteries.

I would have to guess that if the battery voltage stays above 24V with the load connected, everything is working as it should.
Is the sun shining there yet? This is like reading a good mystery novel. Can't wait for the last chapter!


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Ok so I tried it with a load (space heater) and it still did the same thing 24 volts at idle 60 volts when I manually revved it up. From what I understand its supposed to increase rpm when you put more load on it. and it never did that. The load didn't seem to make any difference. Wish the stores could open so I could get a ammeter.


.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

PAUL, We aren't done here yet. Don't give up now!
What was the battery voltage with the heater turned on without the range extender running?

I know I stated at first to just turn the heater to low, but after some research I found out that low (assuming 750 Watts on a 120V heater will only be 1.2 Amps at 24V.
The heater is not going to draw very much current connected to the 24V battery. Turn it to high assuming it is a 1500 Watt heater and it will only draw 2.5 Amps, or 60 watts. It will not put out very much heat. turn it on to high. What is the voltage of the batteries at this setting?

Looking at your diagram, you need to connect the heater to the other end "+ and -" terminals of your battery setup. They should not be connected to the same terminals as your range extender for this test. You want the batteries to act as an accumulator between the load and supply.

Try the experiment again and leave the range extender on "auto". As you monitor the battery voltage will it ramp up as the voltage drops while the heater is on? It should reach around 30V to bring the battery charge up and maintain the 2.5 Amp draw from the heater.

Edit: I just read your post again and noticed you said" The load didn't seem to make any difference." 
I guess we need to verify their is actually verify there is a load by watching the battery voltage drop when the heater is turned on.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

I'll try it when I get home tonight but not sure what you mean by how to connect the terminals?
It is a 1500 watt heater.
There is no auto switch on the generator. The only buttons are two momentary buttons one start (which does nothing) and one stop button. 
I didn't check what the voltage was before starting the generator I'll have to check that too tonight. 
Yep got to admit getting discouraged. 

Thanks for all your help. Its really appreciated


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Does this help?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

*Ah now I get it. I'll try it tonight thanks*



Old man here said:


> Does this help?
> View attachment 8727


Sorry to be a pain but could you show me how to wire it with just Two batteries instead of six. I have six small batteries I was going to use when I thought I needed 72v but if I just need 24v I have two huge 12v batteries I would prefer to use.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> *Ah now I get it. I'll try it tonight thanks*
> 
> 
> Sorry to be a pain but could you show me how to wire it with just Two batteries instead of six. I have six small batteries I was going to use when I thought I needed 72v but if I just need 24v I have two huge 12v batteries I would prefer to use.


Small batteries 7.7 a/h
Huge batteries 180 a/h


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Small batteries 7.7 a/h
> Huge batteries 180 a/h


In this case the heater and range extender will need to be connected to the same terminals. That won't hurt anything though.
It may take a while for the heater to draw the voltage down on 180 a/h batteries. You could try it using just two of the small batteries as well.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

That's what I figured. Great graphics by the way. I'll let you know how it goes


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> That's what I figured. Great graphics by the way. I'll let you know how it goes


Thanks. Can't wait.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Thanks. Can't wait.


Ok here is all the voltages (I'll get ammeter next week when the stores are allowed to open again)


Just Battery = 26.3
Battery + Load = 24.4
Generator only = 26.9 to about 64
Generator + Load = 22.7 to about 60
Generator + Battery + load = 24.9 to about 45


Thanks yet again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok here is all the voltages (I'll get ammeter next week when the stores are allowed to open again)
> 
> 
> Just Battery = 26.3
> ...


Questions: 
What kind of volt meter are you using? Digital?
Are you using the 180 A/H batteries?
Are those high voltages from the generator created by just allowing the generator to do it's own thing, without any changes to the throttle by you?
Can you discharge the batteries for a while before testing again? Maybe allow them to discharge to 24V.

It is interesting that the voltage only goes up to 45V with the small load the heater is placing on the batteries.
It would be interesting to see what happens if you had a large load.
One thing I would be concerned about is the high voltage output damaging your boat motors and / or their controllers. That would not be cheap.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok here is all the voltages (I'll get ammeter next week when the stores are allowed to open again)
> 
> 
> Just Battery = 26.3
> ...


I suppose I could just turn up the idle slightly and charge the batteries really slow. Better than nothing.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Questions:
> What kind of volt meter are you using? Digital?
> Are you using the 180 A/H batteries?
> Are those high voltages from the generator created by just allowing the generator to do it's own thing, without any changes to the throttle by you?
> ...


Yes its a digital multimeter
No still using the small batteries but only two. I can change to the big ones if it makes a difference since that will be what I'm using on the boat in the end. 
at Idle it gives around 24 volts it gets 60 volts by me increasing the throttle to full
Sure I can discharge the batteries
No your right that would not be cheap. There around $2k

Thank you again and again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Yes its a digital multimeter
> No still using the small batteries but only two. I can change to the big ones if it makes a difference since that will be what I'm using on the boat in the end.
> at Idle it gives around 24 volts it gets 60 volts by me increasing the throttle to full
> Sure I can discharge the batteries
> ...


Thanks for the reply.
The reason I suggested to discharge the batteries some, is to see how the range extender reacts to low batteries and a load on its own, without any manual manipulation of the throttle (leaving the throttle on idle).
I would imagine it should have some sort of automatic throttle control (governor?) to increase or decrease the engine speed as required to control the output of voltage and current to match the demand.
As far as using the larger batteries, I think you could do that, but at this time it would be less of a loss to damage the small batteries. Plus you have four more as backups incase we kill the first two. 
One other thing that I would like to test out is how the range extender reacts to a large load (close to what the boat motors would draw at different speeds) that would require your big batteries though.
Oh, how we could use a clamp on amp meter here.
Let's not jump ship yet.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Paul, Can you attach a clear photo of your throttle control and governor setup?
This is the best I can find at the site where you purchased yours.
Also tell me more about the "start/stop switch or switches. How do you shut the engine off?
This is the best I can find:
The long silver lever would be a governor.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

The large Silver lever is the throttle in my picture I can't find the governor but there is a rod that disappears between the fuel tank and the motor. I can't see where it goes. The picture you posted doesn't have a fuel tank on it so it I'm guessing its the same. The stop button just goes to the motor there are two small wires that come out of the motor you can see them next to 72V sticker. I did a little research into what a rectifier does and basically it turns AC into DC. So I'm guessing the three big wires coming out are AC. The start button just goes into the controller. So I'm guessing since there is no external starter. When you press the start button it converts DC to AC and pushes power into the Generator turning the Generator into a motor to start the Engine. However right now pressing the start button does absolutely nothing. Inside the controller there must be some sort of reverse rectifier that turns DC into AC to do this. But I'm guessing. Sorry the pics are a bit fuzzy my camera doesn't like the cold. Wish I had a heated workshop. The Ammeter is supposed to be delivered before 9Pm tonight. Thanks again.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

you can't see (picture is to fuzzy) but the the three big wires coming out of the generator go straight to the rotor.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> you can't see (picture is to fuzzy) but the the three big wires coming out of the generator go straight to the rotor.


Great, an ammeter!
Do you use the red stop button to shut the engine down?
Does rod #1 or #2 move back and forth freely with a slight springy motion?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Great, an ammeter!
> Do you use the red stop button to shut the engine down?
> Does rod #1 or #2 move back and forth freely with a slight springy motion?
> View attachment 8751


Yes I use the red button to stop. It works fine. The rods move and are springy. Also when I lightly pull on the rods it revs up. Still waiting for Amazon to deliver the ammeter and once it gets here I have to figure out how to use it ;-).


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Yes I use the red button to stop. It works fine. The rods move and are springy. Also when I lightly pull on the rods it revs up. Still waiting for Amazon to deliver the ammeter and once it gets here I have to figure out how to use it ;-).


Sounds like they are connected to a governor, good.
What about the Black lever the arrow is pointing to, is that the Choke?

What ammeter did you order? 
Just turn it on, select DC current and clamp over one single wire going to your heater. If it reads -DC amps, just turn it over and it will read +DC. That will be the load the heater is drawing.
To check how many amps the generator is putting out, clamp it over the black wire going from the generator to the battery.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Is that a wire, circled in yellow? What is the red wire to the right connected to?
I would like to see details on how your start switch is wired. We can solve the auto-start issue later after we get the voltage/current problem resolved (I hope).
Was a wiring diagram included with this? Are you tired of me yet?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Good Morning. Still waiting on the ammeter. It said before 9pm and then at 8:50pm the date changed and now its supposed to be delivered today ugh. Anyways the wires you asked about are hard to see in the picture but they just go t the stop switch. It didn't come with a wiring diagram but I created this one. It came prewired to the rectifier but I saw in a picture yesterday they had the yellow and green switched. I'm scared to change it.
Thanks


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Good Morning. Still waiting on the ammeter. It said before 9pm and then at 8:50pm the date changed and now its supposed to be delivered today ugh. Anyways the wires you asked about are hard to see in the picture but they just go t the stop switch. It didn't come with a wiring diagram but I created this one. It came prewired to the rectifier but I saw in a picture yesterday they had the yellow and green switched. I'm scared to change it.
> Thanks
> View attachment 8757


Nice diagram! Please do not swap any wires.
Sorry, been busy so far today. 
Waiting for you to get your ammeter.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Nice diagram! Please do not swap any wires.
> Sorry, been busy so far today.
> Waiting for you to get your ammeter.


Ok got my ammeter. Not sure exactly what I'm doing. But it only has one amp setting that's 600amps. It says it has autorange. Which is supposed to switch but I don't see it. I attached the generator to a dead battery and it didn't rev up. It just sat at idle. But these are the numbers from the ammeter. I put the clamp around the negative wire between the generator and Battery. 
0.114 dead battery - no load
0.310 dead battery - load
0.140 full battery - no load
1.500 full battery - load
Guessing that's no where near 5000 watts. All were at idle. 
Thanks yet again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok got my ammeter. Not sure exactly what I'm doing. But it only has one amp setting that's 600amps. It says it has autorange. Which is supposed to switch but I don't see it. I attached the generator to a dead battery and it didn't rev up. It just sat at idle. But these are the numbers from the ammeter. I put the clamp around the negative wire between the generator and Battery.
> 0.114 dead battery - no load
> 0.310 dead battery - load
> 0.140 full battery - no load
> ...


What Ammeter did you purchase? Does t have a selection between Ac or Dc?
The auto range function is standard.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> What Ammeter did you purchase? Does t have a selection between Ac or Dc?
> The auto range is standard.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> View attachment 8763
> View attachment 8764


Good chance I'm using it wrong


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Good chance I'm using it wrong


Oh no, That clamp on does not measure DC current, it measures AC current only. It will give incorrect readings for DC current. Will not work for this. Can you return it?
This is the type you need:
Amazon.com: Auto ranging AC/DC Digital Clamp Meter: Home Improvement


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Also remember that your 110V heater will only draw around 2.6 amps on high at 24V.
Maybe it is time to move up to your 180AH batteries for testing.
If they are low on charge with your range extender connected maybe it will attempt to put more current into the batteries to charge them and increase the RPM automatically.
Here is a chart for battery state of charge for your reference.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

You didn't give up on us did you little buddy?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Nope still here. I thought I had the right ammeter and I thought it worked so I tossed the box etc. So no returning it. So now I'm getting another one. Just holding me up a couple days


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Nope still here. I thought I had the right ammeter and I thought it worked so I tossed the box etc. So no returning it. So now I'm getting another one. Just holding me up a couple days


Great, I think our next project is to figure out how to place a large (maybe variable) resistive load on your two 180Ah batteries to see how the range extender reacts with a load that simulates what your boat motors would create.

I know there are a lot of people following this discussion so if anyone out there has any ideas, free to chime in. Come on guys, open for ideas!


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Great, I think our next project is to figure out how to place a large (maybe variable) resistive load on your two 180Ah batteries to see how the range extender reacts with a load that simulates what your boat motors would create.
> 
> I know there are a lot of people following this discussion so if anyone out there has any ideas, free to chime in. Come on guys, open for ideas!


I still don't have a large Dc ammeter yet. But I did haul it out to the boat. The big batteries were near dead. So I connected the generator up to the batteries for a while just running at idle (27 volts). The generator slowed a little but did charge the batteries rather quickly. 15v up to 24v in about a hour. I tried the electric motors off just the batteries first but they wouldn't turn. So I tried again with the batteries and the generator and the generator nearly died. So I tried turning them by hand something Ive always been able to do but they wouldn't turn. I think there frozen (winter). But the generator did not rev up instead when there was a large load it slowed down to near stall


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I still don't have a large Dc ammeter yet. But I did haul it out to the boat. The big batteries were near dead. So I connected the generator up to the batteries for a while just running at idle (27 volts). The generator slowed a little but did charge the batteries rather quickly. 15v up to 24v in about a hour. I tried the electric motors off just the batteries first but they wouldn't turn. So I tried again with the batteries and the generator and the generator nearly died. So I tried turning them by hand something Ive always been able to do but they wouldn't turn. I think there frozen (winter). But the generator did not rev up instead when there was a large load it slowed down to near stall


Progress! Please disconnect the motors to protect them while testing.
From your description of the way the generator reacted (the fact that the generator is bogging down), it appears to be putting out current to charge the batteries
Once your ammeter arrives we will know more.

15V when you checked the batteries? That is not good for the batteries at all! 
10% state of charge is at 23.02V. What was the battery voltage after you shut off the generator. I suspect it dropped way back down.

Letting the batteries set at that low voltage will kill them in short order.
Those batteries really need a charge to protect them from freezing as well.

Did you try manually increasing the throttle at all while connected to see if the voltage increased? It would be interesting to see how high the voltage gets while attempting to charge those dead batteries. If it got up to as much as 32V, I wouldn't worry.
Those batteries really need a charge to protect them from freezing.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

I was really surprised to see the batteries that low. I keep my deep cycle batteries indoors during the winter and recharge them once, somewhere near the end of January beginning of February (mid-winter). 

This morning when I checked the Batteries they were at 22v. Using the Generator again I brought them up to 27volts. When I manually increased the throttle it went up to 45volts. I only did that for a second. 

Wish that **** Ammeter would get here. Anything else I should try while waiting?

Thank again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I was really surprised to see the batteries that low. I keep my deep cycle batteries indoors during the winter and recharge them once, somewhere near the end of January beginning of February (mid-winter).
> 
> This morning when I checked the Batteries they were at 22v. Using the Generator again I brought them up to 27volts. When I manually increased the throttle it went up to 45volts. I only did that for a second.
> 
> ...


Did you open the throttle fully open when you got 45V? 
Can you open the throttle just enough to maintain say, a constant 28 to 30V? If so, then try that for about 30 min. while watching the voltage. If the voltage starts to go up then start decreasing the throttle to maintain that voltage.
Check the battery voltage after they set for several hours.
Another thing you need to do is remove the caps so you can see if the acid is bubbling. That is a good thing to re-stratify the acid (just don't boil the acid out and watch the temperature of the batteries. Don't let them get hot.

Caution, keep the batteries as far away as you can from anything that could cause the escaping gas from exploding.

Hope the ammeter shows up soon. Hint with a DC ammeter, it will have a "zero" button on it.
Press that button each time after setting it to DC current before placing the clamp fver the wire you are going to measure.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

So get this. This is my luck. I received my new Ammeter this morning and I put batteries in it, turned it on and nothing. Replaced with different batteries still nothing. Looked more carefully inside the battery compartment and you can see there was corrosion all inside the ammeter. It was brand new. So at least this time I still had the box and sent it back for a replacement. Argh. Anyways I ran the generator for half an hour throttled up a bit to put out about 29 volts. The batteries never boiled or got hot. Mind you I did the test outside in nearly 30 below celsius. When I was done the batteries were at 27 volts and dropped to 23 after about 3 hours outdoors. Thanks again.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

It sounds like the vendor sent you a "returned, used ammeter", that is unfortunate. I hope you get a refund!
The results of the voltage increase in the batteries, verifies that the generator is working to produce the current to provide charge to the batteries.
Concerning the capacity of these batteries and the state of discharge they were in, the amount of charge you put into them is only a fraction of a "full charge". The voltage drop can be expected. Keep in mind, the batteries were severally discharged at 15V. Deep cycle batteries must to be fully recharged within 24 hours after use to prevent sulfation, I would suspect that you are due for new batteries as these will not give you the full Amp hour capacity they are rated for.
They will be good for our testing though.
Thank goodness you will not be out fishing for awhile. Wouldn't catch this old guy out there trying to catch a fish in this weather! I'll settle for a McDonalds Filet of Fish sandwich thank you. 

I wish I could be there with my tools to work with you, we would have this solved by now.
In the meantime, read up on the proper care of deep cycle batteries.

Here is a good article to read during this lousy weather, yes we have icicles hanging off the tree branches and 4 inches of snow here in WV!





Deep Cycle Battery Maintenance | U.S. Battery | Since 1926


Deep Cycle Battery maintenance is crucial to getting the most out of your batteries. These steps are designed to help deliver the longest battery life.




www.usbattery.com




I'm still hanging in there with you.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> It sounds like the vendor sent you a "returned, used ammeter", that is unfortunate. I hope you get a refund!
> The results of the voltage increase in the batteries, verifies that the generator is working to produce the current to provide charge to the batteries.
> Concerning the capacity of these batteries and the state of discharge they were in, the amount of charge you put into them is only a fraction of a "full charge". The voltage drop can be expected. Keep in mind, the batteries were severally discharged at 15V. Deep cycle batteries must to be fully recharged within 24 hours after use to prevent sulfation, I would suspect that you are due for new batteries as these will not give you the full Amp hour capacity they are rated for.
> They will be good for our testing though.
> ...


Yeah winter sucks and not having the proper tools. I have a question for you absolute worst case scenio could I put a MPPT on it to charge the batteries. I'd have to use the pull starter to start it. And not run it the same time as the motors. Since it just about stalls when there is a heavy load. Thanks for the deep cycle article. Oh and I found where I can buy a replacement controller if that is what I screwed up. Just rather on the expensive side so I'm hoping I don't have to


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Yeah winter sucks and not having the proper tools. I have a question for you absolute worst case scenio could I put a MPPT on it to charge the batteries. I'd have to use the pull starter to start it. And not run it the same time as the motors. Since it just about stalls when there is a heavy load. Thanks for the deep cycle article. Oh and I found where I can buy a replacement controller if that is what I screwed up. Just rather on the expensive side so I'm hoping I don't have to


Paul,
Let me do some research on the MPPTs, I'll get back to you about that.

Attach a link to the replacement controller please.

We need to verify what is going on during the operation of the range extender under differing conditions with the ammeter before making any more assumptions. 

Did you ever figure out if your boat motors turned free, or are they just frozen up with ice?

I'm not a cold weather person either. I spent about 4 hrs. today breaking up about 3/8" of ice under 4" of snow and shoveling off my steep driveway.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Paul,
> Let me do some research on the MPPTs, I'll get back to you about that.
> 
> Attach a link to the replacement controller please.
> ...




This is the same type of controller. I contacted them and they do have a 24 model (shown is 48v) which of course they are charging an Extra $50 for it,








74.8US $ 12% OFF|Free Shipping 48~72V Controller 9 mofset rectifier Gasoline Engine Electric tricycle four wheel car charging power generation|controller generator|engine controllerengine generator - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





My motors are frozen. Normally I can turn them by hand but they wont budge. I guessing they wont move till spring. 

yuch, breaking ice is always fun. 

This year hasn't been to bad for ice. However in the past we normally get massive ice storms. In 1998 we broke the worlds record. And it left some areas here without power for over 3 weeks. It broke every power line between every pole and brought down the massive transmission towers. Last night eleven inches of snow fell so today I'm firing up the snow blower. Truthfully this year has been pretty mild so I shouldn't complain. But anything that forces me to take my boat out of the water I'm going to complain about. West Virginia is mostly Mountains right?


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> This is the same type of controller. I contacted them and they do have a 24 model (shown is 48v) which of course they are charging an Extra $50 for it,
> http://[URL][URL][URL][URL][URL]https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32852264278.html[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
> 
> My motors are frozen. Normally I can turn them by hand but they wont budge. I guessing they wont move till spring.
> ...





paulbeauchemin said:


> Yeah winter sucks and not having the proper tools. I have a question for you absolute worst case scenio could I put a MPPT on it to charge the batteries. I'd have to use the pull starter to start it. And not run it the same time as the motors. Since it just about stalls when there is a heavy load. Thanks for the deep cycle article. Oh and I found where I can buy a replacement controller if that is what I screwed up. Just rather on the expensive side so I'm hoping I don't have to


After a lot of research today, I cannot recommend using a MPPT with your range extender without being absolutely sure about the actual wattage output. The issue I see is that the MPPT’s state a maximum input wattage depending on the output current. They do allow a broad voltage range though.

I am going to attach a PDF manual for the one I referred to earlier to in this discussion. I highlighted some items in yellow for you to read.

Let’s get back to your existing components for now.

I’m interested in your controller and rectifier.
In one photo of the rectifier, I could see part of the schematic etched on the side if it. I would like to see a clear shot of that if I could.

On to the controller, you said that you pulled the cover off of it at one time and said that it had a 24V label on the board. Could you remove the cover again and get a photo of the board for me? Both top and bottom.

Sorry to be a pain here.

Here in WV they call them mountains, I’ve been here since 2003. I lived in Washington state for 30 years before moving here.
In Washington, we had mountains! I call WV mountains “hills”.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> After a lot of research today, I cannot recommend using a MPPT with your range extender without being absolutely sure about the actual wattage output. The issue I see is that the MPPT’s state a maximum input wattage depending on the output current. They do allow a broad voltage range though.
> 
> I am going to attach a PDF manual for the one I referred to earlier to in this discussion. I highlighted some items in yellow for you to read.
> 
> ...


Haha I know what you mean I live north of Ottawa in the Laurentians they call them mountains but I grew up in Jasper Alberta in the heart of the rockies. I admit I know very little about West Virginia but Washington state I know pretty well. Spent quite a bit of time there. I was just getting at Mountainous areas are usually get a lot of snow. Thank you again for all your help. I really need this to work.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Haha I know what you mean I live north of Ottawa in the Laurentians they call them mountains but I grew up in Jasper Alberta in the heart of the rockies. I admit I know very little about West Virginia but Washington state I know pretty well. Spent quite a bit of time there. I was just getting at Mountainous areas are usually get a lot of snow. Thank you again for all your help. I really need this to work.
> View attachment 8787
> View attachment 8788
> View attachment 8789
> ...





paulbeauchemin said:


> Haha I know what you mean I live north of Ottawa in the Laurentians they call them mountains but I grew up in Jasper Alberta in the heart of the rockies. I admit I know very little about West Virginia but Washington state I know pretty well. Spent quite a bit of time there. I was just getting at Mountainous areas are usually get a lot of snow. Thank you again for all your help. I really need this to work.
> View attachment 8787
> View attachment 8788
> View attachment 8789
> ...


I had trouble focusing


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Haha I know what you mean I live north of Ottawa in the Laurentians they call them mountains but I grew up in Jasper Alberta in the heart of the rockies. I admit I know very little about West Virginia but Washington state I know pretty well. Spent quite a bit of time there. I was just getting at Mountainous areas are usually get a lot of snow. Thank you again for all your help. I really need this to work.


I actually lived in Spokane, WA. Looks like you migrated East like I did. I just didn't go far enough south though!

I was hoping to find some information on that board to identify it, so I could find a schematic. No dice though. I don't see any smoking guns where you may have let the magic smoke out.

I did find a schematic and specs on the rectifier though. Standard design for a heavy duty AC to DC rectifier. I don't think you could have damaged it. It is still doing what is designed for. If it was damaged, you would not get any voltage out of it. The operation of the rectifier does not regulate voltage at all. X AC Volts in = X DC Volts out.

I would hold off on ordering the replacement controller for now until you get your DC clamp on ammeter. Tools are a must have when working on problems like this.

Also, with the three wire output from the AC generator, any time you swap any one wire, it can/may reverse the voltage.
Who is to say that color coding is the same between the old and new controllers.
Do you have a shop or garage you can work in rather than being out in the weather?
You really need that DC ammeter to progress here.
Keep your head up and stay warm.

I'm still here. No place to go with the storm we have coming in tonight.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> I actually lived in Spokane, WA. Looks like you migrated East like I did. I just didn't go far enough south though!
> 
> I was hoping to find some information on that board to identify it, so I could find a schematic. No dice though. I don't see any smoking guns where you may have let the magic smoke out.
> 
> ...


I saw a thing on the news about the storm hitting down there. Hope your ok. I know Spokane. Back when I was a teen and the Canadian dollar was worth more than the USD. We would go down to Spokane to go shopping.
I have a shed with a workbench so I'm out of the snow and wind but it's not heated. I did have to take it outside when I ran it for awhile because there isn't a very big door on the shed and exhaust builds up quickly. 
I'm still waiting for the replacement Ammeter. They sent a return label but it doesn't say how fast for the replacement shipping. I'll let you know as soon as it arrives. 
I do have one question though something I can't figure out in my head. Looking at the wiring diagram and knowing the Rectifier just switches AC to DC. How if the controller was doing it's job can it control the voltage so it stays the same when the voltage coming out of the generator goes up with more throttle. 
I think I get how the starter works (or doesn't in this case). 
Thanks for sticking with me.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I saw a thing on the news about the storm hitting down there. Hope your ok. I know Spokane. Back when I was a teen and the Canadian dollar was worth more than the USD. We would go down to Spokane to go shopping.
> I have a shed with a workbench so I'm out of the snow and wind but it's not heated. I did have to take it outside when I ran it for awhile because there isn't a very big door on the shed and exhaust builds up quickly.
> I'm still waiting for the replacement Ammeter. They sent a return label but it doesn't say how fast for the replacement shipping. I'll let you know as soon as it arrives.
> I do have one question though something I can't figure out in my head. Looking at the wiring diagram and knowing the Rectifier just switches AC to DC. How if the controller was doing it's job can it control the voltage so it stays the same when the voltage coming out of the generator goes up with more throttle.
> ...


That's why I wanted to see photos of the controller board. I was hoping to find enough identifying information to get a wiring schematic.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Ok so I have DC ammeter. I did as you say and put the clamp around the negative wire. At idle it out out 6 amps and at full throttle it put out a bit more than 70 amps. Thanks again.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok so I have DC ammeter. I did as you say and put the clamp around the negative wire. At idle it out out 6 amps and at full throttle it put out a bit more than 70 amps. Thanks again.


What were the voltages at idle and full throttle? What was the battery voltage when you started the test?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

*Barteries were at 23.6 (after sitting for two days) engine at idle connected to just the batteries, no load is 24.7v and at full throttle 43v*


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> *Barteries were at 23.6 (after sitting for two days) engine at idle connected to just the batteries, no load is 24.7v and at full throttle 43v*


I do know how to spell batteries.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I do know how to spell batteries.


Darn cold fingers?
A test for you:
It appears that the controller is not going to control Voltage at different throttle settings.
One of the things that needs to be checked out is if it controls current output as the batteries become charged in the same way an automatic battery charger would.
Here is where your ammeter will come in.

paulbeauchemin said: 
Ok so I have DC ammeter. I did as you say and put the clamp around the negative wire. At idle it put out *6* *amps* and at full throttle it put out a bit more than *70 amps*. Thanks again.
CAREFUL here! You could blow up your batterie(s)!
Copied from the internet:
*BATTERY CHARGE/DISCHARGE RATE*
You’ll see references in battery books to the proper charge rate. C/10, C/20, etc. Sometimes it can be confusing. What you need to know is that it means the “time” it takes to fully charge a “dead” battery at a certain amp rate. For example: A 105AH battery will fully recharge (from dead) in about 10 hours at about 10 amps of charge (C/10) or about 20 hours at 5 amps of charge (C/20). 
Faster charge rates, like C/5 or C/8 shouldn’t be used with most batteries because the high amperage required for such a fast charge damages the battery. 
C/5 on a dead 105 AH battery requires pounding in over twenty amps. (This is sufficient reason to stay away from fast-chargers in service stations where a gigantic amount of amps are pummeling your battery when they “charge” (destroy) it in 20 minutes. And when you buy a battery off the shelf, don’t let the guy “put it on a charger for just a few minutes” or it will be damaged before you ever use it.

What you need to do is set the range extender speed so it is putting out around 29V while connected to the batteries and see what the current is.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Darn cold fingers?
> A test for you:
> It appears that the controller is not going to control Voltage at different throttle settings.
> One of the things that needs to be checked out is if it controls current output as the batteries become charged in the same way an automatic battery charger would.
> ...


At 29 volts it puts out 14.5 amps. Is that to fast to charge.


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## Grizzly6047 (Feb 21, 2021)

If you need a motor or generator shop to do system checks or rewiring of AC/DC equipment, I recommend Lang Electric Company located in Baltimore, Maryland.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> At 29 volts it puts out 14.5 amps. Is that to fast to charge.


That is a safe range for the large batteries as long as the current starts to drop as the batteries start to become more charged, these are 100AH batteries, correct?
Now on to the next step.

Let the generator charge the batteries for a period of time with the caps removed so you can see if they start to bubble. Also check that the batteries do not get hot.
Make sure each cell in the batteries has the correct level of water in them. Use only distilled water to top off the level if low.

Considering the condition of the batteries and the state of charge, it may take a long while for the state of charge to come up to a point the current reading should start to drop. That is what we want to see here. The current going down.
You may even see the voltage from the generator come up a little, that is ok.

If the batteries start to get hot or boil excessively, STOP.
You want to see something like this:


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> That is a safe range for the large batteries as long as the current starts to drop as the batteries start to become more charged, these are 100AH batteries, correct?
> Now on to the next step.
> 
> Let the generator charge the batteries for a period of time with the caps removed so you can see if they start to bubble. Also check that the batteries do not get hot.
> ...


Sorry it didn't give me a notification that you had replied. I will try running it for awhile when I get home tonight. But in the mean time. I have another question last night I was cleaning up and I came across a old 20amp PWM from my old cottage. It does both 12 and 24 volts. In the worse case scenio (test tonight doesn't work) could I use this to control the charge. Just turn the idle up till it puts out about 29v. I know PWMs are not as efficient as MPPT but spring is coming. And I need something before I launch my boat for the summer. Also the company I bought it from still owes me $125 they agreed to pay because it was the wrong model. So I'm seeing if they will send an replacement controller instead. Even if that's not the problem it would be good to have a second one. I do wish the electric start would work. Thanks Again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Sorry it didn't give me a notification that you had replied. I will try running it for awhile when I get home tonight. But in the mean time. I have another question last night I was cleaning up and I came across a old 20amp PWM from my old cottage. It does both 12 and 24 volts. In the worse case scenio (test tonight doesn't work) could I use this to control the charge. Just turn the idle up till it puts out about 29v. I know PWMs are not as efficient as MPPT but spring is coming. And I need something before I launch my boat for the summer. Also the company I bought it from still owes me $125 they agreed to pay because it was the wrong model. So I'm seeing if they will send an replacement controller instead. Even if that's not the problem it would be good to have a second one. I do wish the electric start would work. Thanks Again


Can you give the brand and model# so I can look up the specs?

Which company owes you? The one you purchased your range extender from, or the one you purchased your PWM from?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Can you give the brand and model# so I can look up the specs?
> 
> Which company owes you? The one you purchased your range extender from, or the one you purchased your PWM from?


Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.

As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me. 

Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.
> 
> As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me.
> 
> Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.


Oh yeah I cant find a model number on the PWM but its says CMG on the case. I tried to open it up but its sealed behind the heatsink. I found this online it looks identical. 








CMG-2420 12V 24V PWM LCD Solar Panel Battery Regulator Charge Controller : Amazon.ca: Everything Else


CMG-2420 12V 24V PWM LCD Solar Panel Battery Regulator Charge Controller : Amazon.ca: Everything Else



www.amazon.ca


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Ok its running right now I'll let you know more when it runs for awhile.
> 
> As for who owes me money. The original company that sent the range extender to me. We had worked out I guess you can call it a settlement since they sent me the wrong one and I didn't want to pay to ship it back and forth to China. But then they said they can only pay me via Wechat. Which I had never heard of but I looked up and apparently its monstrous in China and the most common way they transfer money. But the problem is in order to get a financial Wechat account you need a Chinese bank account. They said they had never heard of Paypal or Email transfers etc. It was quite frustrating. To be honest I was wondering if they were just trying to find ways not to pay me. Anyways I sent them a message to ask for the replacement controller instead but they have 48 hours to reply to me.
> 
> Yes the batteries are 105 a/h.


I would try and have them send you another controller then. Can't hurt.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Oh yeah I cant find a model number on the PWM but its says CMG on the case. I tried to open it up but its sealed behind the heatsink. I found this online it looks identical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is the owners manual:


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Here is the owners manual:


Sorry I wasn't able to finish my test last night I had to go get a car out of the ditch. But I did this morning. After running for over a hour the battery just got warm (no boiling). My levels are good. Also after a hour it hadn't reduced the voltage or power it was producing. Thanks for the manual but am I reading it right even if I put 24v 20a into it all it will charge is 12v 2a. Or are they just talking about if I attach a load to it's load output. Thank you again for all the time your taking with me.
If they do send me a new controller it will take a minimum of 6 weeks to get here ugh


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Sorry I wasn't able to finish my test last night I had to go get a car out of the ditch. But I did this morning. After running for over a hour the battery just got warm (no boiling). My levels are good. Also after a hour it hadn't reduced the voltage or power it was producing. Thanks for the manual but am I reading it right even if I put 24v 20a into it all it will charge is 12v 2a. Or are they just talking about if I attach a load to it's load output. Thank you again for all the time your taking with me.
> If they do send me a new controller it will take a minimum of 6 weeks to get here ugh


Sorry about getting the car stuck, I hate winter!
Your CMG-2420 will provide 20 Amps max charge current for your 24V battery bank as long as you are providing 20 Amps from your range extender.
The 12V 2 amp output is only related to the load output terminals 5 and 6.

Never exceed 40V input voltage, and try to hold the max input amps to no more than 21 to 22 amps.
You need to protect both the input side and output side of the CMG controller with fuses in the positive wires. I would put a 25 amp fuse between the rectifier and the CMG-2420, and a 20 amp fuse between the CMG-2420 an the batteries. Install the fuses the Positive wires.
You can get fuses and fuse holders at any auto parts store. The fuse holders should be rated for at least 30 amps and a minimum of 14 AWG




__





Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance






shop.advanceautoparts.com





I would say it's worth a try to use the CMG-2420 as a test since you already have it.
The CMG should lower the output voltage and current as the batteries become charged.
Like this -








Always have the CMG turned on before starting the range extender.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

By the way, what is the resting voltage of your batteries now, before starting anymore charge testing?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> By the way, what is the resting voltage of your batteries now, before starting anymore charge testing?


After sitting for over 24 hours in below freezing the voltage on the batteries was at 23.7v. 
Ok so using the CMG I can control the charge so it doesn't overcharge, if I set range extender to run at about 29-40v. (no more than 20a). Thats great now I can charge my batteries using it. Now if I could just get the electric start to work. Still wish there was a way to run the Electric motors directly off of it. But I would have to run it at nearly full throttle to get the amperage but that would be way to much voltage. I'd need a way to reduce the voltage to around 24v while running at nearly full throttle.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> After sitting for over 24 hours in below freezing the voltage on the batteries was at 23.7v.
> Ok so using the CMG I can control the charge so it doesn't overcharge, if I set range extender to run at about 29-40v. (no more than 20a). Thats great now I can charge my batteries using it. Now if I could just get the electric start to work. Still wish there was a way to run the Electric motors directly off of it. But I would have to run it at nearly full throttle to get the amperage but that would be way to much voltage. I'd need a way to reduce the voltage to around 24v while running at nearly full throttle.


23.7v is only about 37% charged. That was after charging for how long?
It may take four hours or more to bring them up to a full charge.
I hate to help you spend your hard earned cash but you need another tool here. don't buy the cheap ones with the swing style indicators. These will tell you the state of charge and the condition of the individual cells.
Buy a good one like this:
Amazon.com: OTC 4619 Professional Battery Hydrometer: Automotive

One thing to note, if the batteries are badly sulfated, a battery charger may not ever get to a point that the charge current will start tapering down.

It looks like your batteries may be badly sulfated from being over-discharged for a long period of time - weeks or months maybe. Or due to not fully charging as soon as possible after using them.
I think you need to set up the CMG and do some testing before getting too excited.

You stated that your boat motors are 2000 watts each, 4000 watts total. That is 166 amps at 24 volts.
Do you ever run them wide open and if so, for how long? 
What are the brand and model of these motors?

Let's test that CMG charger now.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> 23.7v is only about 37% charged. That was after charging for how long?
> It may take four hours or more to bring them up to a full charge.
> I hate to help you spend your hard earned cash but you need another tool here. don't buy the cheap ones with the swing style indicators. These will tell you the state of charge and the condition of the individual cells.
> Buy a good one like this:
> ...


I will go buy a Hydrometer and Fuse holders later today. Covid restrictions have lightened up. Stores are open again  Also I will go out and find the name and model of the motors after it quits snowing. I admit that's going to be a big job the motors themselves are under winter shrink wrapping. I'll have to cut it. I can get into the cockpit but the motors are at the back where its tight. But I'll do it. I remember its a Chinese name lol. I did find a bit of info I was wrong about the wattage they are 1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts. I had written it down and I just found the piece of paper. 

It depends where I am what I run them at. When I'm on the Ottawa river which is a big wide river I run full out, there is also a lake I go to a lot that I run full out (the lake doesn't allow gas motors). The motors are not very powerful together at full power I get 8 knots. I also spend about 50% of my time on the Rideau Waterway which is a 202km heritage canal and waterway. The speed limit there is just 5 knots so I run one motor at about 50% power. My limit of travel has always been what my batteries can hold. But I would like to travel a lot further. The Rideau Waterway connects to the American inland waterways and the ocean, not that I would ever go that far in this boat but I would like to travel further than my batteries will allow. 

Thanks again


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I will go buy a Hydrometer and Fuse holders later today. Covid restrictions have lightened up. Stores are open again  Also I will go out and find the name and model of the motors after it quits snowing. I admit that's going to be a big job the motors themselves are under winter shrink wrapping. I'll have to cut it. I can get into the cockpit but the motors are at the back where its tight. But I'll do it. I remember its a Chinese name lol. I did find a bit of info I was wrong about the wattage they are 1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts. I had written it down and I just found the piece of paper.
> 
> It depends where I am what I run them at. When I'm on the Ottawa river which is a big wide river I run full out, there is also a lake I go to a lot that I run full out (the lake doesn't allow gas motors). The motors are not very powerful together at full power I get 8 knots. I also spend about 50% of my time on the Rideau Waterway which is a 202km heritage canal and waterway. The speed limit there is just 5 knots so I run one motor at about 50% power. My limit of travel has always been what my batteries can hold. But I would like to travel a lot further. The Rideau Waterway connects to the American inland waterways and the ocean, not that I would ever go that far in this boat but I would like to travel further than my batteries will allow.
> 
> Thanks again


Quick question: what voltage should the batteries be at when full? And what is the highest voltage I can safely charge at?

Thanks Again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Quick question: what voltage should the batteries be at when full? And what is the highest voltage I can safely charge at?
> 
> Thanks Again


Don't rip your winter shrink wrapping off for the motor info, I was just curious.
Here are a couple of charts for you.
Max charge voltage should be 29.4V.
Full charge should be over 25V after a rest period after charging.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

Paul, you stated your motors are "1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts." Is this each motor, or the total wattage for both motors together?
It sounds like you have some beautiful areas for fishing up there.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Paul, you stated your motors are "1164watts, 48.5amps, 24volts." Is this each motor, or the total wattage for both motors together?
> It sounds like you have some beautiful areas for fishing up there.


It's for each individual motor. I may have to wait till tomorrow to go get that stuff it's turned into a blizzard out there. 

We might have crappy winters but we do have great scenery and great fishing. I practically live on the water during the shirt summer. Last year there was a thin layer of ice on the water before I took my boat out for the winter. How about in west Virginia? Oh yeah I was wrong I have been to WV. A million years ago in college I went to Morgantown to see a transit system they had at the University.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> It's for each individual motor. I may have to wait till tomorrow to go get that stuff it's turned into a blizzard out there.
> 
> We might have crappy winters but we do have great scenery and great fishing. I practically live on the water during the shirt summer. Last year there was a thin layer of ice on the water before I took my boat out for the winter. How about in west Virginia? Oh yeah I was wrong I have been to WV. A million years ago in college I went to Morgantown to see a transit system they had at the University.


Morgantown, that is a very scenic city. How's the blizzard doing?
I've been reading up on MPPT and PWM charge controllers the last two days as it's been raining here the last two days, so nothing better to do.
I've come to the conclusion that the basic ones may not be the best choice.
There are some MPPT charge controllers that can be setup for windmill and water turbine generators. I'll do more research over the next few days.
The issue with the basic charge controllers listed above is that once the batteries become close the being fully charged, these chargers actually start disconnecting and the input voltage to taper off the current and voltage. Basically they are turning off and on hundreds of times a second.
This would not be good for the controller for your range extender as it must always be connected to the batteries while the range extender is running. I am going to repost a photo from the vendors site that I posted early in this discussion.
You will see that it says you can damage the range extender controller if it is not connected to the batteries while the range extender is running!


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Morgantown, that is a very scenic city. How's the blizzard doing?
> I've been reading up on MPPT and PWM charge controllers the last two days as it's been raining here the last two days, so nothing better to do.
> I've come to the conclusion that the basic ones may not be the best choice.
> There are some MPPT charge controllers that can be setup for windmill and water turbine generators. I'll do more research over the next few days.
> ...


Im guessing this is a really bad sign. I opened up the batteries to use my new hydrometer and they are about a inch down on fluid. I had just topped them up in October. I assumed they would still be full. There is some kind of a baffle just below the current fluid levels so I wasn't even able to suck up enough fluid to test. I'll top them up in the morning. Everything closes early on Sunday. 
Blizzard ended now just a ton of shovelling before work in the morning


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Im guessing this is a really bad sign. I opened up the batteries to use my new hydrometer and they are about a inch down on fluid. I had just topped them up in October. I assumed they would still be full. There is some kind of a baffle just below the current fluid levels so I wasn't even able to suck up enough fluid to test. I'll top them up in the morning. Everything closes early on Sunday.
> Blizzard ended now just a ton of shovelling before work in the morning


Not good. Fill them with deionized water only.
I have a feeling that you are going to be shopping for new batteries this spring.
Do you have a good battery charger in your shop. Before you can use your hydrometer, they need to be recharged. Use the range extender if that is all you have.
Discharging under a heavy load like you do will also deplete the water level.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Sorry I wasn't able to finish my test last night I had to go get a car out of the ditch. But I did this morning. After running for over a hour the battery just got warm (no boiling). My levels are good. Also after a hour it hadn't reduced the voltage or power it was producing.
> 
> If they do send me a new controller it will take a minimum of 6 weeks to get here ugh


Paul,
Let's back up a few steps here due to the fact that the batteries were in a serious state of discharge and low on water when you performed the test above. Leave the caps off of the batteries.
DO THIS IN A WELL VENTELATED AREA!
Maybe you can salvage these batteries.?
After filling the batteries to the proper level with distilled water (I sometimes use the term "deionized" since I have worked with those systems in the past), use the generator to charge the batteries again with the voltage set to between 28.8 to 29.2V. The current condition of the batteries could cause this process to take several hours or more.


Bulk Charge Voltage 
The Bulk Charge Voltage of typical liquid electrolyte batteries should be about 28.8 to 29.2 VDC.

This recharge should result in some gassing (to mix the electrolyte) and hydrometer levels should be restored to the fully charged state.
Check your electrolyte every 1/2 hour to see if the level is rising.

During partial recharge (to 80%) only a slight rise in electrolyte temperature should be detected. This would be of the order of 5 degrees Celsius. A full recharge should see a maximum temperature rise of 10 degrees Celsius.

Here is a page with a Hydrometer temperature compensation chart:








Specific Gravity Temperature Correction


When taking specific gravity measurements, it is important to correct for temperature. See the table below: The above table shows the actual hydrometer readings of acid at a specific gravity of 1.265 @ 25ºC (77ºF). As the acid cools it c...




support.rollsbattery.com





Once the batteries are fully charged, you need to do an Equalization charge on them as follows.
Equalization Charge Procedure:
Adjust the range extender voltage to between 30 to 30.5V. You should not have your trolling motors connected during this phase

1. Complete a Bulk & Absorption charge to bring the battery bank to 100% SOC before starting a corrective Equalization.

2. Measure the temperature of a test cell and record the specific gravity of each cell in the battery bank. Identify cells with high/low readings.

3. Initiate the Equalization charge mode at a steady low DC current (5-10% of C/20 battery capacity). If grid power is not available, use a DC power source (generator) or PV array with sufficient current when possible.

4. Specific gravity will rise across the battery bank, ideally reaching 1.265-1.270 in each cell upon completion. Readings in some cells may be slightly elevated due to electrolyte temperature (Ex. 1.280) and will return to normal when cooled but should not exceed 1.30. If the cell temperature rises above 46ºC (115ºF) and approaches 52ºC (125ºF), terminate the Equalization process and allow the batteries to cool. If available, check individual cell temperatures using an IR temp sensor to isolate any possible damaged cells.

Much of the above information was copied from different web sites.

Did I wear you out yet?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

So I'm a idiot. A couple nights ago. I added distilled water to the batteries but then it was to late at night to charge them. Then last night again it was to late to charge them so today I went to charge them and realized what happens to water when it's not mixed or charged and left outside. It freezes. I brought them in but I think I might have wrecked them.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> So I'm a idiot. A couple nights ago. I added distilled water to the batteries but then it was to late at night to charge them. Then last night again it was to late to charge them so today I went to charge them and realized what happens to water when it's not mixed or charged and left outside. It freezes. I brought them in but I think I might have wrecked them.


Oh man, when it rains it pours.
Did they swell up? The cases didn't crack? If not, they should be ok.
Check the voltage once they are thawed out.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> So I'm a idiot. A couple nights ago. I added distilled water to the batteries but then it was to late at night to charge them. Then last night again it was to late to charge them so today I went to charge them and realized what happens to water when it's not mixed or charged and left outside. It freezes. I brought them in but I think I might have wrecked them.


Did your batteries ever thaw out?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

I let it thaw for a day then used the extender to charge them. I figured it's what I want to charge them in the future and it will charge the batteries simultaneously. But after running it for about an hour it ran out of gas (thought I had more) so last night night I ran and got more gas. This morning I charged it for a couple hours (had to stop it to run an errand. But it was at 27v after. This morning when I first started it was at 24.7. I checked it quickly with the hydrometer and each cell was not good at the far end of the red zone. Like I said I did it quickly and I didn't have my reading glasses with me so I couldn't read the number. But whatever the worst number is I sure that's it. I think the batteries are shot.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> I let it thaw for a day then used the extender to charge them. I figured it's what I want to charge them in the future and it will charge the batteries simultaneously. But after running it for about an hour it ran out of gas (thought I had more) so last night night I ran and got more gas. This morning I charged it for a couple hours (had to stop it to run an errand. But it was at 27v after. This morning when I first started it was at 24.7. I checked it quickly with the hydrometer and each cell was not good at the far end of the red zone. Like I said I did it quickly and I didn't have my reading glasses with me so I couldn't read the number. But whatever the worst number is I sure that's it. I think the batteries are shot.


Paul, those batteries were most likely pretty much shot before they froze due to the fact they have been in a state of low charge for an extended time.
Even if they did hold a charge, the capacity would be so low they would probably not get you too far out on the water. 
Don't be too hard on yourself for letting them freeze.
You may try a longer charge on them again. See if the reading comes up on the hydrometer. You need to get the water bubbling to mix up the electrolyte.
Keep us informed.


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> Paul, those batteries were most likely pretty much shot before they froze due to the fact they have been in a state of low charge for an extended time.
> Even if they did hold a charge, the capacity would be so low they would probably not get you too far out on the water.
> Don't be too hard on yourself for letting them freeze.
> You may try a longer charge on them again. See if the reading comes up on the hydrometer. You need to get the water bubbling to mix up the electrolyte.
> Keep us informed.


Just out of curiosity can you put two batteries of different capacity's (a/h) in parallel. I have a couple older (still need to test) 65 a/h batteries I might be able to add to my total capacity. Plus the company I bought the range extender from is giving me a run around on replacing the controller. Do you think I should pay the $150 for a replacement. 

Thanks again


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Just out of curiosity can you put two batteries of different capacity's (a/h) in parallel. I have a couple older (still need to test) 65 a/h batteries I might be able to add to my total capacity. Plus the company I bought the range extender from is giving me a run around on replacing the controller. Do you think I should pay the $150 for a replacement.
> 
> Thanks again


I don't recommend using different a/h batteries especially if they are old. Read this article, just one example:








Electrical Myths, Part 3: Mixing Batteries of Different Ages/Capacities


We’ve all been there at some point–a battery in a multi-battery bank is in need of replacement, and the salesperson is telling us that they should all be replaced together. Is mixing b…




rvnerds.com





As far as replacing the controller, that's your call. I don't know if your controller is actually bad. The new one may act the same way as the existing one. Information about these controllers is as rare as unicorns. I have not been able to find any description of their actual operation on the web. I wish I could be of better help on that subject.
If you have $150.00 you don't mind spending, it would at least answer several questions.

Test the 65 a/h batteries and if they look ok. Try charging them up just to see how they hold up.
How is the voltage holding on your other two batteries?


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Old man here said:


> I don't recommend using different a/h batteries especially if they are old. Read this article, just one example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would something like this work at all? How to Bring A Deep Cycle Battery Back to Life - Side Car


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Would something like this work at all? How to Bring A Deep Cycle Battery Back to Life - Side Car


You can give it a try. My son in law does something like this, but he flushes the batteries out one last time with demineralized water, then refills them with battery acid he buys from the auto parts store.
What are your voltages now? Do you have a standard automatic battery charger?


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Would something like this work at all? How to Bring A Deep Cycle Battery Back to Life - Side Car


Paul,
Read this also:




__





Epsom salt in lead-acid battery - Page 1


Epsom salt in lead-acid battery - Page 1



www.eevblog.com


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## paulbeauchemin (Jan 23, 2021)

Sorry I didn't get much chance to work on it this last week. I tried that battery fix I saw online with a older battery same type and make but smaller. And it seems to have worked. At least it seems to be better than it was before. I still need to leave it a bit to see if it holds a charge. Took a while to do because it was recommended to trickle charge it at 2amps. But if it does work on this battery which was really dead then I'll try it on my larger batteries. 
I do have a question though. I found a way to put a large load on the range finder. I connected a 1500watt pure sine wave inverter and a 1000 watt microwave to it. I found to keep the voltage up I had to increase the throttle manually. Anyways I was thinking about my motors they draw a lot of wattage and if I normally increase the throttle it puts out to much voltage. But if the voltage drops when it gets under heavy load what do you think the odds are that it will produce enough watts while throttled up if the draw keeps the voltage low enough. I'm sure the motors can handle a bit more than 24volts without hurting them. Wish there was a way to find out exactly how much voltage they could handle. Oh yeah and to manually control the throttle I attached a old throttle from a lawnmower ( the throttle on it is spring loaded) and I attached a really cheap volt meter in front of the throttle handle.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Sorry I didn't get much chance to work on it this last week. I tried that battery fix I saw online with a older battery same type and make but smaller. And it seems to have worked. At least it seems to be better than it was before. I still need to leave it a bit to see if it holds a charge. Took a while to do because it was recommended to trickle charge it at 2amps. But if it does work on this battery which was really dead then I'll try it on my larger batteries.
> I do have a question though. I found a way to put a large load on the range finder. I connected a 1500watt pure sine wave inverter and a 1000 watt microwave to it. I found to keep the voltage up I had to increase the throttle manually. Anyways I was thinking about my motors they draw a lot of wattage and if I normally increase the throttle it puts out to much voltage. But if the voltage drops when it gets under heavy load what do you think the odds are that it will produce enough watts while throttled up if the draw keeps the voltage low enough. I'm sure the motors can handle a bit more than 24volts without hurting them. Wish there was a way to find out exactly how much voltage they could handle. Oh yeah and to manually control the throttle I attached a old throttle from a lawnmower ( the throttle on it is spring loaded) and I attached a really cheap volt meter in front of the throttle handle.


As far as the throttle you hooked up, good old ingenuity at its best.  
I am surprised the generator does not have a governor to manage the throttle according to the load. 
Did you have the throttle installed before you hooked up the inverter and microwave?
Did you have your inverter connected to your 105 AH batteries while running this test? 
Did you measure the DC current with the microwave running?
I know, lots of questions here, just trying to wrap my head around the actions and reactions of your generator operation. Such as, why it does not automatically throttle up as the load increases. Maybe that could have something to do with the controller.?

It will be interesting to see how your battery reconditioning works out. I would not think you will get them back to full storage capacity though.

I have to think about the boat motor situation more, I'll get back to you about that later.
Keep on plugging at it.


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## Old man here (Nov 5, 2020)

paulbeauchemin said:


> Sorry I didn't get much chance to work on it this last week. I tried that battery fix I saw online with a older battery same type and make but smaller. And it seems to have worked. At least it seems to be better than it was before. I still need to leave it a bit to see if it holds a charge. Took a while to do because it was recommended to trickle charge it at 2amps. But if it does work on this battery which was really dead then I'll try it on my larger batteries.
> I do have a question though. I found a way to put a large load on the range finder. I connected a 1500watt pure sine wave inverter and a 1000 watt microwave to it. I found to keep the voltage up I had to increase the throttle manually. Anyways I was thinking about my motors they draw a lot of wattage and if I normally increase the throttle it puts out to much voltage. But if the voltage drops when it gets under heavy load what do you think the odds are that it will produce enough watts while throttled up if the draw keeps the voltage low enough. I'm sure the motors can handle a bit more than 24volts without hurting them. Wish there was a way to find out exactly how much voltage they could handle. Oh yeah and to manually control the throttle I attached a old throttle from a lawnmower ( the throttle on it is spring loaded) and I attached a really cheap volt meter in front of the throttle handle.


Are you still out there Paul? Any progress?


----------

