# Oil Change Frequency



## Sparky2021 (Dec 3, 2020)

I just bought a Predator 4375 watt generator. The maintenance instructions call for a oil change every 20 hours of operation. I just finished putting 20 hours on it and the oil looks as clean as when I put it in the engine. Is 20 hours just a "cover their ass" number or do I really need to change the oil every 20 hours?


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Don't know about the cover their ass. Does it have an oil filter, which would mean a pressure lube system. If not the oil as the generator gets older will get dirty quicker than one with a filter. I personally would change it. I change the oil in my Honda generators every time they are used, and I mean if only for a few hours. My big Honda cost over $4000 when I purchased it about 18 years ago, so I figure oil is cheap compared to a generator engine worn out due to running oil too long. It also sits for long periods of not being run so I would rather have fresh clean oil in it. I also use synthetic oil in it.


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## Sparky2021 (Dec 3, 2020)

jkingrph said:


> Don't know about the cover their ass. Does it have an oil filter, which would mean a pressure lube system. If not the oil as the generator gets older will get dirty quicker than one with a filter. I personally would change it. I change the oil in my Honda generators every time they are used, and I mean if only for a few hours. My big Honda cost over $4000 when I purchased it about 18 years ago, so I figure oil is cheap compared to a generator engine worn out due to running oil too long. It also sits for long periods of not being run so I would rather have fresh clean oil in it. I also use synthetic oil in it.


No, it does not have a filter. You are probably correct when you say just change the oil, and yes, oil is cheap. I was just wondering if since the oil that is in it after 20 hours of operation looks like I just poured it out of the jug, I would be safe to maybe run it for 40 hours between oil changes. Another reason, which is probably lame but I am 74 and it's hard to get down to ground level where the drain and fill plugs are located and get back up again. Maybe I will see if I can find a cheap engine lift which would make changing the oil and any other maintenance much easier. 
Thanks for you input.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

20 hours sounds about right for your typical Chonda generator.
*The maintenance break-in period will last about 20 hours of use. After this period: Change the engine oil.*​​On a similar size Honda EM5000SX, the break-in oil change is also at 20 hours, but 6 months or 100 hours thereafter. But that's a $2500 machine; yours is a $400 machine.


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## Sparky2021 (Dec 3, 2020)

tabora said:


> 20 hours sounds about right for your typical Chonda generator.
> *The maintenance break-in period will last about 20 hours of use. After this period: Change the engine oil.*​​On a similar size Honda EM5000SX, the break-in oil change is also at 20 hours, but 6 months or 100 hours thereafter. But that's a $2500 machine; yours is a $400 machine.


Thank you for your response. I am going to contact the company and see what they tell me. Have a Merry Christmas.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

I just checked and on my Powermate's LCT engine (China built) the break-in oil change is also at 20 hours, but at 40 hours thereafter. I would place that engine squarely in between the Predator and Honda in terms of quality/longevity. If they're saying 40, I would do the other Chinese engines more frequently.

These are the ones I know from owning/using them:

PowerMate PM0126000 40 Hours/6 Months LCT Engine
PowerMate PM1500 50 Hours/Annually Kawasaki Engine
Generac 3500XL 50 Hours/Annually Generac/Briggs Engine
Honda EM5000SX 100 Hours/Annually Honda Engine
Onan 2.8KVA 150 Hours/Annually Onan Engine


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Sparky2021 said:


> No, it does not have a filter. You are probably correct when you say just change the oil, and yes, oil is cheap. I was just wondering if since the oil that is in it after 20 hours of operation looks like I just poured it out of the jug, I would be safe to maybe run it for 40 hours between oil changes. Another reason, which is probably lame but I am 74 and it's hard to get down to ground level where the drain and fill plugs are located and get back up again. Maybe I will see if I can find a cheap engine lift which would make changing the oil and any other maintenance much easier.
> Thanks for you input.


Understand those age related issues. I'm 75 and have installed a Fumoto drain valve on my generator and a pressure washer, along with a nipple for an extended drain line. Just lift a tab rotate 90 degrees and they drain, and away from the frame which otherwise gets oily and hard to clean. Mine is stored in a small shed with a 3' ramp giving about 12-15" of rise, so I set it in the door, and an old paint bucket with the flex drain line extended to it, no mess. My fill plug on the generator is on the top, so that's easy.

Like I said mine is a Honda, I prefer to buy quality and buy once. My wife and I still drive a 2000 Mercury, now it's only got a little over 130,000 miles, but I have run Mobil 1 since we got it , still too nice and reliable to get rid of, plus it;s paid for.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

The break in oil change is one of the most important. I never heard of any problems from frequent oil changes. Moving forward 100 hours is ok, but if it’s looking dark and dirty just change it. Oil is cheap.


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## speedy2019 (Jan 29, 2019)

I did my first oil chance afer about 10-15hrs of use, and the oil was also clean, but I hadn't thrashed or used the gen more then 30mins at a time..... Question is is possible for oil to go black from it getting too hot?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Black oil is primarily soot from combustion.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Your generator probably takes less than a quart of oil Oil is cheap. Replacing a generator is not.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup on all of the replies.
i use magnets to help on the black trash out of the oil.
click here for the magnets page
the first oil change is the most important as well as the first few hours of engine run.
honda likes the engines to be ran at the normal run speed or any eco setting to be off.
think of the assy lube they use in the engines... as well as all of the fine materials in the oil
as bearings and rings are seating...
then there is the mfg trash left in the parts during assy..
that is why i like the magnets... dip stick, drain plug if you have one, and oil filter magnet if you have a spin filter.

first oil change 10-20 hours of run time at full run speed
on standard gx honda engines in a clean area 100 hours, 50 hours if in a dirty area.
on large gx engines with an spin oil filter in a clean area every 200 hours or every 100 hours if in a dirty area.

and if stored and test ran change it every year...
as well as do something with click here for gasoline additives if you run on gasoline.
and avoid ethanol fuel if you can.

clean oil and stored right... and operated with a proper load most good brands of modern gens should last over 10k hours.
and engines running on lp or ng do last longer! that clean burn fuel thing.

and with the storms getting worse... get spare parts for your gens and keep plenty of oil on hand.
who knows where this new lock down will be in another 60 days from now.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Paul, can you give a comparison to effectiveness of the magnets. On my Honda 20hp I just installed one of the oil filter magnets as well as one on my 26hp Kawasaki on myZTR mower, no way for an drain plug magnet or dipstick magnet on these engines. I do have the drain plug magnets on my little EU2000 generators. I am also rather obsessive about changing the oil, on the generator, after each use in a power outage,and don't think I have run it over 15 hours then. the ZTR twice a year which equates to about 20 hours between changes. Run synthetic and never had a problem, Generator is about 18 years old, ZTR is a mid grade Scag, 2006 model, so quality equipment all the way around.


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

speedy2019 said:


> I did my first oil chance afer about 10-15hrs of use, and the oil was also clean, but I hadn't thrashed or used the gen more then 30mins at a time..... Question is is possible for oil to go black from it getting too hot?


Oil gets dark due to the heat/cool cycles. If it gets black quickly in a gas engine it's due to the lighter oil ingredients burning off or fuel dilution like when the choke is left on too long, although on a diesel fueled engine oil gets black from soot washed off the cylinder walls and into the oil. Check your owners manual, but most would recommend either 50/100hrs or once every year if not run up to those hours. The once a year is to protect the engine from the increased acidity in the oil. Using oil analyses one of the indicators to change out is if the TBN (total base number) number has been reduced to half. So if your oil started out new as a 6 TBN it should be changed at 3 TBN. It's difficult to find what most oils are for TBNs however. I like AMSOIL Small Engine oil. It's a tough oil fortified with ZDDP, has a TBN of 8.5, and can run up to 200 hrs or once a year change out. I wouldn't run it for 200 hrs unless the motor had an oil filter, but during a catastrophic incident it's nice to know that the oil can be extended in an emergency. Like an extra level of protection...
Dutchy


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> most of the large gx hondas have a dual drain plug...
> one on each side of the base.
> i have pix on the other forum of black magnetic carbon material after just a few hours of run on magnetic dipsticks.
> we have an oil analysis system in house here as well as we mail it in to a lab when the numbers need a base line or annual.
> ...


I pulled my big honda out the the engine is a Gx620 and it does have dual drain plug. I had just gone by owners manual way back and had only seen the one mentioned. Can you please provide a link or tread size for a proper magnetic drain plug?
Also does anyone make a magnetic Filler plug for the honda gx200, I have a Fumoto drain valve in it, just used it today changing oil on the pressure washer. That valve with an extension hose sure prevents a lot of messes.

Thanks

Jeff

I got to doing some research and finally found the GX 620 plug shows at14x1.5 and found varying sizes on the GX200, 18 and 19x2.5. I then started thinking about how the filler plug on the GX 200 looked today, went out to my shed and got the little EU2000 generator out which has had a magnetic filler plug in it since day one and low and behold they are the same size so ordere another of those for my GX200 pressure washer engine. It probably took a couple hours of playing on the computer and combing the cobwebs of my mind to figure it all out. Apparently a lot of the makers of those magnetic dipsticks say that they fit just a few engines, and make no mention of a lot of others and do not give a thread size. I would think if they were a little more informative in their description they might have a larger market.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> try this set of pages
> yea the dip sticks are the same on a lot of the hondas.
> and drain plugs are small gx, large gx and twin gx for those 3 sizes.
> they are all on those pages as well as other gear too.


I ordered a 14x1.5 for the GX twin, hope it's the right size.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> that should be too small
> unless you have the older engine... it will be the same size on both sides of the block so if you ordered the smaller drain hose
> it will be the same smaller size..
> 
> ...


My engine dates to about 2003 or 2004, cannot remember exact date, but pre Hurricane katrina, by a year or so. I went ahead and ordered a 20mm. I don' want to drain oil before I have the plug in hand, and it has been so long since I put the fumoto valve in that I cannot remember the size. I saw the 20mm on the oil magnets page, but no ref as to what it fit. Just thinking back I think it looked to be about 3/4" which would be about 20mm.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea the the size charts are new as of 12/06/2020 on the site.
it should be the larger size.
pretty cool that they have the two drain plugs on the gx series!
it makes the engines fit more equipment....


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Yes, agree. I'm going to look at the little GX200 today and see if it has two also, or possibly two fill plugs. I saw somewhere that some of the clones have two filler locations, if so I'll stick two magnets in it.
I'm thinking with the Fumoto on one side of my GX620 I can drain, then take the magnet out of the other side, eliminating a lot of mess with oil running everwhere, clean it reinstall and be on my way in a few minutes. Guess I am lazy always looking for a way to make things quicker and easier. That's getting to be a must at my age, 75. Yesterday I changed the oil in the pressure washer, and greased my Scag ZTR, 15 zerks, There are four that are extremely hard to get to, so I installed extension hoses on them with zerks on the end so I can grease them remotely, Even after that my back was hurting so gave it up for a while. I will change oil in the big Honda when the magnets come in.

Finally warmed up here enough to go outside without a light jacket and looked at the little GX200. It does have places for two drain plugs and an extra inlet plug/dipstick location, so I am going to put a magnetic drain plug and and extra magnetic dipstick in it, Three magnets in a splash lubed engine should be a lot better than one, not knowing how oil might circulate in the pan.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

sounds like a plan!
yea those remote grease zerks rock!
they sure are a back saver!
Lincoln make them... as well as many other brands now!
we use those on industrial applications where they never turn off fans etc.
those high speed pillow block bearings need grease..
they also make memo lube units too!
programmable on time of day or some have run hours sensors.
we use them on gear that is robot controlled for under ground mining.
it keeps constant grease pressure on the bearings to help keep the dust and water out.


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

Mine are kind of "jury" rigged. zerks for the blade spindles are under the pulleys, so I put an straight extended length zerk , attached a locking grease gun spout then an right angle zerk into it so I can get to it from straight above. so basically going through two zerks for those. Four of the others basically the same type setup, but the locking spout onto the factor zerks, then a 12-15 hose with a zerk on the other end in an easily accessable place. I had fought getting to some of those things for years before I got somewhat smart. To me the ideal set up would be for an on board grease gun with hose going to all of the blade spindles, with the speed and load on them, I think they are the most important. You could occasionally give them a shot or two of fresh grease while running which seems to me to be the best way for a running bearing, but with belts flying and pulleys so close I have no intentiion of trying it even with my little extensions, everything is just too close for comfort.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

check out this page
memo lube site
they are expensive.
but they are an auto lube setup!
a real back saver as well as equipment saver!
no more thinking .. did i grease that?
LOL!
as long as you keep the unit filled with grease they rock!


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

That looks like the idea. I bet it is rather pricy also, wish they posted some base prices. I just don't know where I could mount something like that, My deck has to raise and lower so no room there unless on outside where it would be vulnerable to damage. Other places there would be hoses looping around, making tripping while getting on or off more likely. I had thought about making a bracket to mount a standard lever grease gun , adding a little 3 way manifold then hoses to the three spindle bearings, but just don't seem to have the energy to get up and try it. 

The thing that bothers me most nowdays is bending over to work on some of that smaller equipment, Actually the way things are set now I could place a short stool on one side and do that side , then move to the other for those, and only have to bend and twist for about 5 out of the 15 fittings. I have no experience with other brands, but these Scag mowers seem built to last, and I did not get the top of line commercial model with shaft drive to blades, I would probably have a gear box and universal joints to lube then.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

they use stainless braided whip hose for when things have to move.
and there is swivel grease fittings.

and they use a multi splitter block so one memo lube unit for the whole machine.
the cool part is you can take it with you if you sell the tractor or mower.
just remove the unit and put it back to stock!
save it for the next unit!

most memo units run 500 to 2000 bucks...
depending on the storage volume and flow size.

in the multi million dollar industrial setting the memo lube units are used to save the route size for a greaser guy on a large plant..
some plants have over 100k count in zerks that all need a shot per day or per hour depending on the equipment speed.
so at $60 to $200 per man hour for the billable time. a memo lube unit saves BIG money!

some equipment cannot be lubed with these...
but if equipment is designed right they can!


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

I could see the cost effectiveness in some of the industrial settings, but for me as a homeowner operating one unit, definetly not cost effective. When I start getting twinges in my back, I'll go in sit back and enjoy a cup of coffee and finish later or even another day. As is, I am probably lubing, changing oil, at roughly one half the recommended manufacturers interval.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

on mower decks you cannot get enough lube..
parts are under a lot of strain.
it is one of the places that an auto lube would rock for sure.
and if you are bad enough that it is a risk of throwing your back out.
the cost is not an issue! 
grin!
off healing up time is worth something!
just doing the remote zerks make sense!
but then you need to remember to grease them!

i have seen zerks that have never had any grease.
some folks just do not hit all of the places.
i use the zerk count method
put numbers by the zerks and hit them in order.
that method works!


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> on mower decks you cannot get enough lube..
> parts are under a lot of strain.
> it is one of the places that an auto lube would rock for sure.
> and if you are bad enough that it is a risk of throwing your back out.
> ...


I agree with all of this. I probably lube my mower deck every 5-6 hours of operating time along with front wheel bearings which are easy to access, using a high grade synthetic grease like Superlube, or Valvoline with moly. Some of the zerks are underneath frame, well inside, just in front of rear wheels, and I used to literally have to lie on the ground to reach them until I installed my extension hoses. I'm using either an electric or pneumatic grease gun so less strain there. Being retired $500+ for such system is not in the cards.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea after a while it gets cheaper just to have a lawn guy!
lol!
20k in just a good mower these days...
let alone all the other trim stuff.
then the hot days mowing..
we have guys here that do lawns still for 25 bucks! no kidding!
not worth the heat stroke!
GRIN!


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> yea after a while it gets cheaper just to have a lawn guy!
> lol!
> 20k in just a good mower these days...
> let alone all the other trim stuff.
> ...


My mower is so comfortable, the standard Scag seat is like a nice lounge chair that I don't mind mowing. Here in E Texas where during the summer mid day or afternoon mowing is unthinkable, I get up and generally have blades turning befor 8am, Another plus for early morning is if we have any dew it keeps dust down.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol
if we tried early am mowing here we get slaw mix!
thick heavy grass..
grin!
we mow here when the dew is off for a better cut.
I agree on the high heat mowing.
way too hot to enjoy it!


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## jkingrph (Sep 18, 2017)

iowagold said:


> that should be too small
> unless you have the older engine... it will be the same size on both sides of the block so if you ordered the smaller drain hose
> it will be the same smaller size..
> 
> ...


I had ordered a 14mm earlier, and after seeing this went ahead an ordered a 20mm. Both came in today, mine uses the smaller 14mm plug. Also ordered a 12 mm for the GX200 and it also was too large so got a 10mm which fits. Got the oil changed in both this morning as well as oil in pump on pressure washer so should all be good for a while. I have the generator running right now on its quarterly exercise, two 1500 watt electric heaters turned on high.


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