# Portable Generator to Power House



## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

New to this generator talk so take it easy on me. 

I am looking to purchase a generator for backup power for my house. I live in the country, so sometimes it takes a few days to regain power after a hurricane. I do not have natural gas available. 

I would like to run my A/C (4 ton, I believe it runs at 5kw?), lights, 2 fridges, freezer, tv, and water pump.

What size would I need? What are the brands to look at?

Thanks so much for the help. I have been driving myself crazy trying to decide on a unit.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

Also, someone just said that you can pair 2 generators together? Is this safe to do so?


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

WesGen said:


> New to this generator talk so take it easy on me.
> 
> I am looking to purchase a generator for backup power for my house. I live in the country, so sometimes it takes a few days to regain power after a hurricane. I do not have natural gas available.
> 
> ...


Look at the LRA (locked rotor amps) rating on your 4-ton AC condensing unit. Without a soft start installed, this will be the current it will draw upon each startup cycle. Most portable generators won't give you more than 30-50 amps at 240V.

I have the Honda EU7000is which is rated to supply about 5500 watts continuously, which is about 23 amps at 240V. I have a 4-ton AC unit, but it won't be running during an outage. We have a smaller mini-split unit in the basement we can use to cool down.

You can parallel two inverter generators together to get more power, but that will also use more fuel. Storing a lot of gasoline isn't ideal, so you may want to look into generators that can run on propane as well.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Welcome. 

Good questions.



WesGen said:


> I am looking to purchase a generator for backup power for my house.
> ....
> I do not have natural gas available.
> .....
> ...


I would look at 15kw and up units.

With no natural gas your two options are propane and gasoline. Do you use propane for heat/cooking already? If so - it may be easier adding a generator. If not - not a huge issue, just something you have to plan for. 

Please keep in mind that in a disaster scenario - such as the post-hurricane back-up power situation you allude to - acquiring fuel is going to be an issue. What fuel can you get - if any? If you can not get fuel and you dont already have it then your generator is a giant paperweight. 

With that having been said - if you can do it - get a large propane tank set up for your generator. Propane won't go bad like gasoline will. 

A 15kw class generator will run in the range of 4 pounds of propane an hour. So for 24 hours of operation that is 96 pounds of propane per day of operation. Speaking of propane tank sizes - the typical grill size tank is 20lbs. You can get those "portable" tanks up to about a 100lb size (there are larger ones, but they are not generally considered portable or common). 1x 100lb tank, as big as it is, will get you 1 day of generator run time. So do the math. If you loose power for a week that is 7 days, or ~700lbs of propane, or 7x 100lb tanks. 

Conversely, propane weighs about 4.2lbs per gallon. So if you had a 250 gallon installed tank on your property that would equate to 1050lbs, 262.5 hours run @ 4lbs/hr, and just shy of 11 days run time. 

Installed propane tanks you can have filled by a truck also. That might be the easiest way to get enough fuel to get you going for days in a disaster scenario - if you can get the propane delivery company to fit you in to their swamped schedule. 

Before you select what kind of generator you want think about how much work you want to do as an owner. Are you mechanically inclined? Or do you want to open your wallet and pay money for what you don't want to do? If you want to pay money to have things done for you then you will be at the mercy of all the services you require. If you are mechanically inclined and are willing to do the work yourself you will be able to work to your schedule and what is important to you and your family when it is important. If the main circuit breaker fails on your set up during a power outage and you have to call for service - how long are you going to be out of power before the service dude - who is going to be swamped with calls before you - can get to you and help you out? Or if you have the part in your garage ready to throw in and are mechanically/electrically inclined to do the repair you may be out of power for only the time it takes to diagnose what the issue is. 

Something else to keep in mind is there are different classes of generators. Are you wanting only emergency power? Or do you want reliable primary power for long periods of time? Your usual portable and home back up "screamer" generators use engines that run at 3600 RPM, are air cooled, splash lubricated (bigger units are likely pressure lubed), and use carburetors as opposed to fuel injection. "Prime use" generators - think building back-up units like what a hospital would have - run at much lower RPM's, like 1800, are liquid cooled, pressure lubricated, and likely have fuel injection. This is like the difference between a lawn mower engine and a car engine. A car engine will last, with proper maintenance, much longer than any small engine will. Then again, you aren't running your small engines around the clock. Except for a generator... When you are out of power for a week can you trust that intermittent-duty engine to run around the clock during that week? What maintenance is going to be required on that engine - and when? Will you have the parts and materials on-hand to maintain that engine so it can survive the constant beating? Or are you going to rely on a service company - who is going to be swamped during the same period everyone else and their brothers are out of power also - to make sure your intermittent duty generator engine is going to survive? If they can't fit you in to their schedule - how are you going to do your own maintenance so you don't blow up your generator and are permanently without power until the grid comes back up?

Lots to think about.



WesGen said:


> Also, someone just said that you can pair 2 generators together? Is this safe to do so?


Most "Inverter" style generators you can do this. The application is called "parallel operation". The "paralleling" comes from tying the two inverters together so they synchronize the AC outputs together - doubling the power.

You CAN NOT "parallel" rotary alternator/conventional style generators because there is no way to syncronize the AC output. Only inverters can do that because the AC is computer controlled - the computer is what does the synchronizing.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

WesGen said:


> and water pump.


I assume that "water pump" is a "well pump"?

We have a Jaccouzi that runs on 120v at the cabins. That is a pretty hard starting/hard running load. I want to say it is a 15 amp rated pump motor.

In any event, the larger load for you is going to be the central AC. As was previously mentioned - you can get soft-start kits that will decrease the start up load. The "water" pump will add a lot more load to the system, but if you have a generator that will power the AC you will have the power to run the pump - maybe not at the same time. If your AC is running and the water pump cycles that would be a lot of power.

Something else to consider is if the water pump is 120v that is going to pull on 1 leg of the generator. Your AC unit is 240v so it is going to draw power from both legs.

For example - if the water pump is 15a on 120v like the one we have - lets say the AC unit runs 34 amps. That 34 amp draw from the AC unit is on both legs of the generator alternator. If you add in the 15 amps from the water pump (not counting starting load here) that is 49 amps on one leg of the generator (34 + 15). You would need a generator - just for these 2 loads - with a running wattage of (49 x 240)= 11,760 watts*, or round up to 12kw. That will put you right at the 15kw class generator requirement because the generator classes are largely spec'd by peak/starting wattage with lower continuous running wattage ratings.

*You have to factor the amperage together across BOTH legs of the alternator, not one, because the amperage is your limiting factor on the generator - not the wattage. If you were feeding an RV or boat, for example, that only had 120v - a single leg load center as opposed to a split phase dual leg load center like what you have in your house - there is no way to draw the rated wattage of a generator from the 1 leg. You would have to split your loads and "balance" them across both legs. So when you factor loads together to figure up the size of a generator that is required you have to use the amperage combined across 240v in the calculation, not simply the "wattage" added up because the wattage is not the limit of the generator - the amperage is and that affects each leg individually the same as it does both legs combined. When using the amperage in the calculation against the 240v voltage you cover your bases and get the right "wattage" number you need for your sizing. Again, using "wattage" is not entirely accurate to sizing a generator because that in and of itself does not answer the balancing issue. For that you need amperage - most across 1 leg then calculate that against both with 240v.

An example - my 15kw unit is 13,500 watts continuous, not 15,000w.

The higher the running wattage, to a point, the better. If you are at 75-80% of your running wattage rating that would be an ideal range. That way you aren't at full bore on the ratings - it will help the longevity of the alternator and engine.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

As you describe, you're looking at some big $$ to satisfy all your requirements. IMHO, review duration and frequency of previous outages to provide a point of departure on what your real needs would be. The central air is going to push you into a large, fuel guzzling unit. Perhaps put a small window unit in one location, fans, or just sweat. If you don't have propane getting a tank delivered, filled, line run to generator location ain't cheap. Gasoline is problematic as to storage but can be dealt with by adding fuel preservative and then yearly using that gas in your vehicle and replacing. How much gas to store goes back to duration of outages. Don't assume you can just refill gas cans locally as widespread outages affect gas stations too. Do you want an automatic system, e.g. the power goes out, generator starts, and power is back? That's the most expensive. Are you able to wheel out a portable, connect via a generator disconnect and only power select circuits, well pump, frig, freezer, etc.? That's the least expensive, but will probably require an electrician to do the wiring. There are connections that use the meter socket and don't require an electrician but are pricey. 

A lot of folks get by with a 5KW generator as only the absolutely critical things are powered. Personally get by with a 3500W. The smaller the generator the less fuel consumed. Also, smaller generators should only be run "steady state" at half load to increase their life and minimize fuel consumption.

Ask your neighbors what they have for generators and how they get through outages.

Good luck


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

If I wanted to power my 4-ton AC unit, I could parallel my generator with a second one and get a soft starter kit for the main AC, but that would mean replacing and rewiring the inputbox and breaker from 30A to 50A. 

It would ultimately be cheaper for me to just get a secondary, efficient AC unit for use during an outage.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

As Exmar noted, rather than run the whole-house a/c unit, you could run a couple of window a/c units instead if you want to use portable generators. I live in an area that's prone to hurricanes and power loss afterwards. The goal is to have the equipment in order to be reasonably comfortable for the days of power loss that can happen, realizing there will be compromises when using portables. If you want to run everything in the house full throttle, you're probably going to need a whole-house generator in the 15-20kw range. Those are very nice, but also quite spendy.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yea you are better off using a portable room ac unit when on smaller gens.
and using a large bladder tank setup for the well water so you can run for a days worth of water then turn off the power to the pump and run the rest of the house.
make sure to use good quality check valves on that system.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

I recommend you buy a Sense product or something similar to get you an idea of how much electricity you use. It's peanuts compared to picking the wrong generator.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup
best to have a good inventory of the exact power consumption and when!
pm me for a meter panel idea.
i came up with a good cool solution on my system...
easy to read and see what is going on live!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

My 2 cents... Its budget vs convenience. A 15-20kw standby unit, will power everything in your home at the cost of ~$15,000. And it will do it automatically. Generator, ATS, 250-500 gallon propane tank.

If $15,000 or more sounds a bit steep the. A smaller portable generator with Appropriate house connection can be had for as little as $1,500. Then it’s just sizing and fueling logistics. As the unit gets bigger and better the price goes up.

Central AC is the biggest monkey wrench in a generator plan. If you disregard central air a 5kw unit with careful load management can handle the home with minimal issue and ease of fueling. 7-8kw reduced load management but complicates fueling. 

Personally, I have an eu7000 and a soft start on my Old Tired 3.5 ton central AC. It CANNOT start my unitby itself... If I pair my eu2000 with it, the pair easily starts the AC. This is a last resort ace up my sleeve. I have a 15k btu portable AC unit tht is my plan A.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

Thanks for all of the info! I am dumb when it comes to this, mainly because I just have zero hands on experience in it.

I have been looking at the following portable generator.









WGen12000DF Generator - Dual Fuel


For your toughest power needs, the Westinghouse WGen12000DF Dual Fuel Portable Generator is an ultra duty generator engineered for strength. With 15,000 peak watts and 12,000 running watts, the WGen12000DF is built with a brawny 713cc V-Twin OHV Westinghouse Engine to yield up to 11 hours of run ...




westinghouseoutdoorpower.com










Harbor Freight Tools – Quality Tools at Discount Prices Since 1977


Harbor Freight buys their top quality tools from the same factories that supply our competitors. We cut out the middleman and pass the savings to you!




www.harborfreight.com













9500 Watt SUPER QUIET Inverter Generator with CO SECURE Technology


Amazing deals on this 9500W Co Secure Inverter Generator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com





I am assuming these would be safe to run electronics on?

My thought process is to store gasoline at the beginning of season and use by the end of season.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

All those are Chinese clones. I'm not saying that's bad, but it could be (especially for spare parts). But the cost of admission to get a Honda EU7000iS is very expensive. The dual-fuel ones are nice for sure.

There is a big difference in noise between the closed inverter models and everything else. Only you can answer if that matters.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

Robh said:


> All those are Chinese clones. I'm not saying that's bad, but it could be (especially for spare parts). But the cost of admission to get a Honda EU7000iS is very expensive. The dual-fuel ones are nice for sure.
> 
> There is a big difference in noise between the closed inverter models and everything else. Only you can answer if that matters.



I agree, but these will probably be used MAYBE twice a year.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

That Harbor Freight 9500 looks pretty good. There is a dual fuel variation of the unit by a different company for a bit more $$.









DuroMax XP9000iH 9000-Watt 459cc Dual Fuel Digital Inverter Hybrid Portable Generator with CO Alert


WHERE TO BUY EXTENDED GALLERY × DuroMax Retailers One of the largest digital inverters available on the market, the XP9000iH is excellent for emergency home backup or power on the jobsite. Use clean power to operate your television, laptops, and other sensitive electronics. This inverter comes...




www.duromaxpower.com





If I were to buy a big inverter generator that’s not a Honda, I’d lean more toward the powerhorse 7500.






Powerhorse Inverter Generator 7500 Surge Watts, 6500 Rated Watts | Northern Tool


This Powerhorse® Inverter Generator provides more power with less noise, plus low 1.5% total harmonic distortion for safely running sensit...




www.northerntool.com





Remember that all these Chinese generator have very loose guidelines to their power ratings All of which are embellished.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> That Harbor Freight 9500 looks pretty good. There is a dual fuel variation of the unit by a different company for a bit more $$.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see Duromax ads pretty often. I never heard of them. Are they good generators?


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

None of them are good and all of them are good. 

There isn't much difference between the quality of the Chinese generators. Champion might be one of the few exceptions. Other than this forum, YouTube probably has the best reviews.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

Robh said:


> None of them are good and all of them are good.
> 
> There isn't much difference between the quality of the Chinese generators. Champion might be one of the few exceptions. Other than this forum, YouTube probably has the best reviews.


Champion being one of quality?


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

I can't say for sure that Champion is better than the rest, but they are well respected here. They also stand by their products. The QC should be better.

Someone else may correct me, but I view (portable/inverter) generator quality to go like:

Honda
Yamaha
Champion
Clones that use genuine Honda or Yamaha engines
Everyone else to varying degrees


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

Robh said:


> I can't say for sure that Champion is better than the rest, but they are well respected here. They also stand by their products. The QC should be better.
> 
> Someone else may correct me, but I view (portable/inverter) generator quality to go like:
> 
> ...


My concern with Champion was that the THD rating was a little high. If I run electronics on surge protectors, I should be good?


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## mtucker (May 9, 2021)

WesGen said:


> My concern with Champion was that the THD rating was a little high. If I run electronics on surge protectors, I should be good?


 My little Champion inverter generator (100899) has both a better looking sinewave and lower THD than my house power. The Champion sinewave visually looks perfect and THD was 1.5% with a 1kW load (it does about 1.7kW on propane). House power is 2.4%THD. House power has to deal with all the power supplies in our house and in neighbors homes that only pull power on the sinewave peaks which distorts the waveform.

The sinewave on the traditional generator I have doesn't look too bad and I have run backup power to my home with it (power large TVs and electronics). The THD was 11.5% at 1kW, but as long as you don't have big spikes most devices won't care. Inverter generators are nice, but I wouldn't lose sleep worrying about the THD of generators.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

WesGen said:


> My concern with Champion was that the THD rating was a little high. If I run electronics on surge protectors, I should be good?


Surge protection and THD are like comparing apples and cats. Not even closely related as fruits/veggies. Surge protectors won't protect any against high THD. From what I know at the moment - nothing will (I could be wrong, perhaps that is "no realistic/sensible method will"). The cure for high THD is to recreate the AC power. So that would have to come from another form of power generation - such as converting to DC then from DC back to AC with a power inverter. That is the principal behind an "inverter" style generator from the get-go - the input to the "inverter" is DC, which was rectified from the alternator spun by the engine. The Inverter does the "creation of the AC wave". With a rotary generator that is producing the AC directly (no conversion from DC) you gets what you gets.

THD = Total Harmonic Distortion. This is how far off the AC waveform is from a pure sine wave. I posted this in another thread recently when looking for a comparison of example waveforms at differing amounts of THD. This waveform is at 12%:







'

Power surges, conversely, are spikes in line voltage. You could say that is a deviation from a pure side wave waveform of the AC power, but it is a voltage spike that affects the voltage peaks (every 180 degrees) in the waveform, not something that affects the entirety of the waveform - all 360 degrees. 

Think of THD as a "fuzzy" waveform. If you equated the image quality of the waveform to sound it would be like a crisp clear AM radio station and one that is really far away that has a lot of static and is harder to hear. 

Also for example - this is the waveform from my 15kw rotary unit. It is a Mecc Alte alternator with a THD spec of <4% (pretty good - especially for a rotary). You can see its not a "perfect" sine wave and on the rise just to the right of the first redicle to the left of center there is a notch in it. I don't have a way of "measuring" THD at the moment, so I can not tell you numerically what the THD represented by the waveform on the 'scope screen is yet, but interesting to see none-the-less.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

FWIW I just bought a Champion as a second or back up generator based on reviews, and discussions here. I also called them to ask a couple of "loaded" questions and was very impressed by the knowledge available and they weren't reading from a script!! 

One last thought, buying a generator is like everything else, comes down to "what do you have more of, time or money?" If you have the time to do manual load shedding, turning off breakers turning on breakers. Only turn on well pump when needed to replenish water. e.g. It used to be SOP in Hurricane country to fill bath tubs for water to flush toilets. When your generator is connected, turn on breakers one at a time and let load stabilize before going to the next one. The determining factor in sizing would be the well pump and the generator would have to have 120/240. That's the least costly option. From there, you go up in initial installation cost, generator cost and fuel consumption, higher cost for more convenience. For me it's how often do I have to do this and duration of outage.

Champion admits that their generators have a THD of 15-25% which is considered high. Getting THD numbers on other generators is kind of ..... difficult and numbers available are suspicious. Champion has at least "bit the bullet" and published what other folks won't. I get along with "open frame" non inverter generators and have never had any issues. I'd guess we have the usual Frig, Freezer, flat screen tv's, desktops, laptops, etc. If you have super sensitive electronics, maybe that's a concern. The whole house generators which do everything for you aren't inverters and are open frame with higher THD ratings. Also, THD increases as load increases which folds back to portable generators should be run, steady state at half load. My guess is that your electronics will get along with an open frame unit, but I'm a majority of one here.


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## Robh (Aug 19, 2019)

WesGen said:


> My concern with Champion was that the THD rating was a little high. If I run electronics on surge protectors, I should be good?


Champion makes regular and inverter generators. It depends on which one you're looking at. I'd recommend inverter style generators regardless of brand.

The only thing Champion doesn't have going for them is large quiet (enclosed) inverter generators that some of the other companies offer.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

WesGen said:


> My thought process is to store gasoline at the beginning of season and use by the end of season.


Do your math.

For example: My 15kw unit supposedly sucks down 1.5 gallons an hour, I think that is around 1/2 load, then it goes up to about 1.8 gallons an hour closer to rated load if I recall correctly. For math purposes I've been using the 1.5 number and was comfortable with it so I'll use it for the time being until more real world testing to get a better number for the way I use it.

Think about that for a minute - 1.5 gallons every hour of operation, on average.

In 24 hours that will be (1.5 x 24) = 36 gallons per day.

If you loose power for a week, thats 7 days, or (7 x 36) = 252 gallons.

If you loose power for 2 weeks.... Thats (14 x 36) = 504 gallons.

How are you going to store all that gas?

I have the ability to hold around 80 gallons if I filled up EVERY container/tank. Thats a pain in the arse. At the moment I have about 45 gallons, or less than 2 days, and I try to cycle through it so it isn't sitting around all year.

Now - instead of storing the gas you could go to the gas station and refill a days worth of gas every day, or a couple days worth of gas every couple days, right?

WRONG.

If you are in a big power outage your gas stations are going to be closed down also. We ran in to that many years ago. The remnants of a hurricane went through the midwest and caused a big wind storm that left us out of power for close to 2 weeks. In the early days we had a lot of trouble finding gas stations that were even open. And when we got there - the lines were horrendous. We'd be in line for a couple hours just to get to a pump.

The above scenario is if you are lucky and CAN find a gas station open that can pump gas and.... has gas left to pump.

You can not rely on that.



FlyFisher said:


> Please keep in mind that in a disaster scenario - such as the post-hurricane back-up power situation you allude to - acquiring fuel is going to be an issue. What fuel can you get - if any? If you can not get fuel and you dont already have it then your generator is a giant paperweight.


I state again - if you can not get fuel and don't already have it on-hand your generator is a giant paperweight. 

You need to have better plans than "a bunch of gasoline". That ain't gonna work too well. 

Now, you could get a small inverter generator like a Honda EU2200i that sips gas and run your essentials - refrigerator, lights, fans. That will run around 8 hours on a gallon of gas, or around 12 times the run time of the 15kw example above. In that case - you could get by on gasoline because it is so fuel efficient. But - you are NOT going to run your AC on that. For that same week period of time you would go through ~21 gallons of gas instead of 252 gallons, or for 2 weeks ~42 gallons instead of 504 gallons. Big difference. 

When you're talking big power and whole home back up - natural gas makes a whole lot of sense because it is piped in and "there". You CAN run long run times and big watts - as long as the fuel supply is there. And that is the kicker. If the gas gets shut off you are hosed. Then you're back to tanked forms of fuel - propane and gasoline. Trying to feed a big watt generator on tanked in fuel, as illustrated above with the gasoline numbers, is a hurdle. That is where smaller generators that are much more fuel efficient are a blessing. Yeah you might have to sacrifice some things - but you will have some power for the essentials.

Speaking of essentials - I consider refrigeration an essential. We can't eat spoiled food. Yeah, when it is 90deg and humid AC would be nice - but if we are rationing fuel it, unfortunately, has to go because the draw is so huge on the fuel. And we have generator options - 15kw rotary, 2600w rotary, and a 2200w inverter. I wish I could bridge the gap with something in the 5kw class. At some point I will - I just happened to stumble in to a deal on the 15kw so thats what I went with - and the bigger thought with it was there are some things my other units won't run so if I was in a scenario where I needed more power I could fire up the 15kw for that purpose only, then shut it off. Options.


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## WesGen (Jun 2, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> Do your math.
> 
> For example: My 15kw unit supposedly sucks down 1.5 gallons an hour, I think that is around 1/2 load, then it goes up to about 1.8 gallons an hour closer to rated load if I recall correctly. For math purposes I've been using the 1.5 number and was comfortable with it so I'll use it for the time being until more real world testing to get a better number for the way I use it.
> 
> ...



If I am out of power for a week...I'm going somewhere else that has electricity. I see myself using my generator for 12 hours a day for maybe 3 or 4 days. Anything more than that...I am gone! haha


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

WesGen said:


> If I am out of power for a week...I'm going somewhere else that has electricity. I see myself using my generator for 12 hours a day for maybe 3 or 4 days. Anything more than that...I am gone! haha


(12 x4) = 48 hours

48 hours x 1.5 gal/hr* = 72 gallons

*use what ever consumption you want, the 1.5 here is just an example to illustrate.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

FlyFisher underscores why you must determine the absolute minimum power required and then go from there.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

and the honda is still the best.
buy what you want.
for us here the honda works for us.
or if you are looking at larger gen sets
look at cat.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

exmar said:


> FlyFisher underscores why you must determine the absolute minimum power required and then go from there.


Just tossing out there "food for thought", I realize I am complicating things but I think it is very wise to "think through". Hopefully everything I throw out there helps others in that thought process, if at the very least it gets their wheels turning. 

Determining the absolute minimum power required isn't necessarily a "go from there" determination. 

There is a threshold of every generator to produce power before a change in fuel consumption. 

If you have a 35kw generator and draw 1kw from it you are not going to decrease the fuel consumption from if you were drawing, say, 10kw. 

As to where that threshold is, I am not sure. The point I am making is there is a level of wattage that you can draw from a generator before the fuel consumption increases. 

So with respect to the "minimum wattage" thought - if you only have 1 generator you are at the mercy of its fuel consumption no matter what. The only way to benefit (in terms of lower fuel consumption) from knowing the "minimum" is to start small right off the bat with a very fuel efficient inverter generator. Yes, you will have some strict limits. If you need more power than what the little inverter can - have another generator that can provide that next step up. 

The idea is to get the wattage you need while making the best use of the fuel you have/can get. If you are max'ing out the wattage on a generator you need to step up. If you aren't using the wattage within the threshold of where the fuel consumption of a larger unit goes up then you have too big of a generator. 

I've heard numbers between 50-75% duty cycle being where you want to plan generator sizing for. What i would say is to use the 75% figure - off of the running wattage, not the starting wattage. What this means is when you add up all the wattages of your devices that total should be no more than 75% of the running wattage of the generator you're looking at. This will give you head room for starting loads without hitting in to the starting wattage figure, or at least minimizing it. Even though the unit is spec'd for 25% more on the running wattage that 25% cushion will run the alternator cooler. And at 75% of the running wattage you are well in to the loading of the engine that will make the fuel consumption go up. So with lighter loads the fuel consumption will drop.

To get more detailed - if you can figure up the loading on each half of the split phase power system (think house breaker panel and the even vs odd numbered breakers) and match the highest load count (not the breaker amperage, but all the devices running on all the breakers on each leg and what they draw, not what the breakers are) to the 75% figure above that would be ideal. This gets in to load balancing somewhat, but that can be a bit tricky. What ever the highest power draw is on a leg take that as your 75% and the rest won't be as important.

If you are running extension cords from a portable generator then try your best to even out the loads, if it is a split phase 120/240v unit. Otherwise, if it is 120v only like a lot of the inverter units - it is all the same.


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## Masterpower Generators (Jun 2, 2021)

WesGen said:


> New to this generator talk so take it easy on me.
> 
> I am looking to purchase a generator for backup power for my house. I live in the country, so sometimes it takes a few days to regain power after a hurricane. I do not have natural gas available.
> 
> ...


Hello, Depending your electric consumption in your home, a 12kVA diesel generator would be perfect for you. You can check our website in the profile


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

and on the older diesel generators think on wet stacking...
they like a 15 to 25% load as a min.

i guess this is why I like the idea of tri fuel gasoline, LP, NG
and right now my favorite is the NG...
at least as a priority fuel..
way less fumes.... and it is fuel on tap.... you pay for what you consume...
and the same on LP..
except you have to have a delivery truck or get your own fuel on LP...

the other thing to keep in mind you are at 25% more cost than grid power when on a gen set...
at a min...
just throwing out numbers....

now if a new gen set came on the market that would be a true all fuel generator...
Diesel, gasoline, natural gas, Liquid propane.....
and make it pass epa and all of the world standards with out any add on fuel exhaust trickery like a DPF.
now you would have an all in one gen set!
then areas where bio fuel is a BIG thing (NG and diesel renew fuels) you would be covered.

do that as a larger inverter generator maybe is the range of 30 to 60 kw to give you room.
and make it where the fuel consumption when at lower levels of power demand would be 
proportional to the fuel consumed...
then you would have something!
think 2,4,6,8 CYL progression.... with electronic valves, direct CYL injection.
total electronic fuel management by octane sensor...

yup I would buy one or two right now!
and the onboard inverter would make it work with other power sources as well.
it could be selected as primary master of secondary slave for the sync step.

lol mic drop...
stay safe out there!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

On the subject of THD here’s the sine wave from my old champion 7000w generator. Not too shabby.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> and on the older diesel generators think on wet stacking...
> they like a 15 to 25% load as a min.
> 
> i guess this is why I like the idea of tri fuel gasoline, LP, NG
> ...


Paul you make very interesting points.

Diesel is one fuel I don't have a way to burn in a generator. And my truck is diesel so I am SOL on siphoning from its large tank as backup generator fuel. I've thought of going the route of a DC generator at some point (combined with the power consumption side of an alternative energy system - the batteries and inverter side - where the DC generator charges/maintains the battery bank). Having a diesel engine for that would be awesome - and a gasoline that could be set up as tri-fuel. In that case I could cover all bases. 

I am not sure I like the staging of firing cylinders idea in a larger engine. I would be surprised if there is much market for a home backup generator north of 25kw. I'm sure there are probably some mansions out there that have 6 central AC units etc etc and have 100kw generators... but that is the far exception, and at that point commercial prime units are out there to many hundreds of kw so that rare "home" market is already covered. If you have a house that big you probably don't need to ask the price of anything anyway. For the more normal folk - the vast majority - with a home that has 1 AC unit, refrigerators, the usual TV's, computers, lights - I can't see needing more than 25kw, and that still sounds awfully high unless you are trying to run at a pretty low duty cycle. If there were an inverter generator that covered that base alone I think that would be good. I am not sure how the wear would balance between cylinders if only some are firing. I know there are vehicle engines today that do something similar - run 4 cylinders of a v8 in economy mode or what ever. It just seems like it would throw off the balance on the engine - and you're dragging the other 4 cylinders along for the ride. I suppose with computer control it would be possible to do it, just seems like an odd concept. 

Just the ability to throttle the engine through its' RPM range from idle to full throttle depending on the power required would be a huge help on fuel consumption on the bigger units. 

I'm sure big inverter generator technology is coming - its just a matter of time. And of course it is going to be pretty expensive off the bat. Look at where Honda is today vs, say, Powerhorse in the price game for comparable units. Its a name brand that has the better product and generally is early, then other manufacturers follow after the trail has been blazed to bring down the price point and compete with the name brands. 

Although - it would be interesting if a large inverter generator could be made with 2 engines. As the load surpasses what one engine can provide have the 2nd engine start and come on line. I am not sure what the response time needed would be and if the 2nd engine could start and come up to speed "in time", or if a capacitor bank could be used to stretch that time period of the capacitors providing for what the 1 engine isn't until the 2nd engine can come online and keep up, but it would be an interesting concept. Sort of like a hybrid vehicle, although you aren't concerned with voltage/frequency drop in the time lag of the engine coming online. 

It would be easier to match DC power on the input to the inverter than it would be to synchronize AC power on the output. With DC the voltage doesn't matter - the base voltage of the system will balance and what ever ability which ever alternator has to push a higher voltage will simply translate in to higher current as the wattage the alternators can produce will be there, just with restricted voltage = the other variable is current will rise. Thats the same principal in a wind turbine powered off-grid system that uses batteries - the power from the turbine is converted to DC for charging and that charging restricts the voltage vs the turbine spinning free with no load.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> On the subject of THD here’s the sine wave from my old champion 7000w generator. Not too shabby.
> View attachment 9443
> 
> View attachment 9444


The sample rate of your 'scope isn't fast enough to resolve the waveform with much detail. I agree, though, it does look decent. 

On digitals you get a basic overview but the pixelation of the waveform hides the detail. Without spending a fortune on a high end digital 'scope your best bet is a CRT - the analog 'scopes do not have the pixelation. They don't have the fancy math features etc etc that the digital ones do, but you can't touch their ability to resolve waveforms with a 10ft pole 

The two 'scopes here are of the same leg of my 15kw unit at the same time. If you look at the digital 'scope you can interpret some of the detail, but if you didn't have the CRT to compare to it would be impossible to see anything other than the one notch on the rise of the wave and one spot on the fall you can correlate, towards the top of the wave. The rest of the wavy'ness on the CRT is buried in the pixels of the digital.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

just keep in mind every time you convert energy from one state to another there is a % of loss....
thermal, friction etc...

yea if battery tech gets better i could see a battery storage and a inverter for each different items in a house...
idle current only till it kicks in....
and then use a gas generator for a battery charger to be on call for when the battery charge management calls for a charge.
it could work!
we just need low cost 20+ year batteries.....
i am still watching the salt water batteries...
they could be the ticket!
there is also the flywheel system out there that has low loss in the storage...

for now the little systems we have.... they work ok!
who knows where we will be in another 20 years from now!


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I look forward to improved battery tech. And I’m thinking of experimenting with some solar stuff. A solar shed.

On a recent YouTube rabbit hole I watched some stuff on flywheel systems. Neat enhancements have mad a niche for them.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup things have gone "full circle" for sure GRIN!
every thing out there has loss...
the trick is to get that loss as low as you can get it....

same on the fuels....
minimize the damage to the pocket book!
or get the max the bang for the buck.

and for storage of power.
get it as small as you can and the most power you can.

just think 122 years ago we were dependent on coal and steam power.
who knows where we will be in the next 50 or 100 years!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

I purchased a Powerhorse 27000 watt starting and 18000


WesGen said:


> New to this generator talk so take it easy on me.
> 
> I am looking to purchase a generator for backup power for my house. I live in the country, so sometimes it takes a few days to regain power after a hurricane. I do not have natural gas available.
> 
> ...


 I purchased a Powerhorse 99932, 27000 watts starting and 18000 continuous. THD 5%. I finally got a tri-fuel conversion kit working, one small regulator main problem. It will do all you want. To get all the power have to use the 50 amp plug and the 30 amp plug. I am not sure how I'm going to set this up. Will get an electrician out to give opinions. It will run everything.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> I finally got a tri-fuel conversion kit working, one small regulator main problem. It will do all you want. To get all the power have to use the 50 amp plug and the 30 amp plug. I am not sure how I'm going to set this up. Will get an electrician out to give opinions. It will run everything.


If you are already in to modifying the generator for multi-fuel why not put a larger circuit on the unit? IE - use something like an Anderson connector rated to 120 amps and put a circuit breaker that matches the wattage - so at 240v 27kw would be 112.5 amps. Running amperage would be 18kw/75 amps. Considering that breakers are delayed tripping, unless there is a dead short, matching your running wattage/amperage with a breaker would be a good place to start - 75 amps. 

Here is an example of the 120a Anderson connectors. The housings are color coded - the colors have to match to connect together (the "key" in between the pins is sized differently with each housing). The pins for the size connector are all compatible, however they are wire gauge specific. So you can connect a 2 gauge cable to a 6 gauge cable with the same housing - just get the right pins for the wire size. You can not mate a blue connector to a gray connector, however. 

For 4 conductors (ground, neutral, L1, L2) you would parallel 2 sets of connectors and make a block of 4 pins.









Anderson Power Products SB120 SB Series 120 Amp Connector Kit


Available in Blue, Gray and Red. Recommended for use with 2, 4 and 6 gauge wire. Kit includes the housing and contacts needed for a single connector.




powerwerx.com


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

FlyFisher said:


> IE - use something like an Anderson connector rated to 120 amps


Here is a commercially made generator (22kw starting/19kw running, 100a breaker) that has such a connector configuration on it:



https://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/uploads/PD/Spec_Sheets/Portables/SP-269_WL22000VE-C.pdf


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

FlyFisher said:


> If you are already in to modifying the generator for multi-fuel why not put a larger circuit on the unit? IE - use something like an Anderson connector rated to 120 amps and put a circuit breaker that matches the wattage - so at 240v 27kw would be 112.5 amps. Running amperage would be 18kw/75 amps. Considering that breakers are delayed tripping, unless there is a dead short, matching your running wattage/amperage with a breaker would be a good place to start - 75 amps.
> 
> Here is an example of the 120a Anderson connectors. The housings are color coded - the colors have to match to connect together (the "key" in between the pins is sized differently with each housing). The pins for the size connector are all compatible, however they are wire gauge specific. So you can connect a 2 gauge cable to a 6 gauge cable with the same housing - just get the right pins for the wire size. You can not mate a blue connector to a gray connector, however.
> 
> ...


bad idea on the anderson they are for low volts.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Bulldogger said:


> I purchased a Powerhorse 27000 watt starting and 18000
> I purchased a Powerhorse 99932, 27000 watts starting and 18000 continuous. THD 5%. I finally got a tri-fuel conversion kit working, one small regulator main problem. It will do all you want. To get all the power have to use the 50 amp plug and the 30 amp plug. I am not sure how I'm going to set this up. Will get an electrician out to give opinions. It will run everything.


yea they make 100 amp and up industrial connectors...
but they run 400.00 or more for each side of the connection..

you could use the high voltage connectors for like welders.
but you have to make sure to match the colors...
and they are just not as safe as the all in one connectors

pm me if you need links for the high voltage Heavy Duty connectors!
we use those in the large mining gear.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

try this link
100 Amp Pin and Sleeve Devices | 100 Amp Plug | ElecDirect


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> bad idea on the anderson they are for low volts.





FlyFisher said:


> Here is a commercially made generator (22kw starting/19kw running, 100a breaker) that has such a connector configuration on it:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wincogen.com/wp-content/uploads/PD/Spec_Sheets/Portables/SP-269_WL22000VE-C.pdf


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> If you are already in to modifying the generator for multi-fuel why not put a larger circuit on the unit? IE - use something like an Anderson connector rated to 120 amps and put a circuit breaker that matches the wattage - so at 240v 27kw would be 112.5 amps. Running amperage would be 18kw/75 amps. Considering that breakers are delayed tripping, unless there is a dead short, matching your running wattage/amperage with a breaker would be a good place to start - 75 amps.
> 
> Here is an example of the 120a Anderson connectors. The housings are color coded - the colors have to match to connect together (the "key" in between the pins is sized differently with each housing). The pins for the size connector are all compatible, however they are wire gauge specific. So you can connect a 2 gauge cable to a 6 gauge cable with the same housing - just get the right pins for the wire size. You can not mate a blue connector to a gray connector, however.
> 
> ...


 What motivated the generator purchase was the effort I had to exert to keep my pool plumbing from freezing during the last winter ice storm in the south. The cost of breaking up the concrete to get to plumbing would be multiples of the cost of the Powerhouse generator so I bought it. I lowered the pool level and pumped pool anti-freeze in the line. A big hassle because I had to blow the water out of the lines with my shop vac first.

In the event of another such freeze, I'd just disconnect my pool from the power grid and run a line straight off the generator. The running watts on the pump says 2700 watts but a about 20% more when it's priming. The main circuit panel that feeds my home does not have breakers for the central a/c but does for the furnace. The disconnects for the central a/c are outside below the meter, along with ones for dryer and pool. The only way converting all the power to a single outlet would be feasible is to inject right after the meter I am guessing? How would I do that? Then I would not have to worry about sending power to pool and the reminder to house. Without the central a/c powered, the 12500 watts is more than enough to power the household. I would like the option of powering one of my central a/c units in summer and not powering pool. In winter, I would power pool and not central a/c.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> The main circuit panel that feeds my home does not have breakers for the central a/c but does for the furnace. The disconnects for the central a/c are outside below the meter, along with ones for dryer and pool.


Where is your service entrance panel? This is the panel that will have the main service breaker - 100 amp, 200 amp, 300 amp, 400 amp.... It should have a sticker on it that says "service disconnect" on the breaker. This panel is the one you would have to feed in to with an interlock set up. Or, you could put a transfer switch between the service feed (from the meter) and the main panel. That would require a lot more work and would also involve the electric company killing power to your branch from the pole or transformer box (your branch has a service disconnect at the utility line - but the utility company would have to work it, coordinated with your electrician doing the install/wiring of the transfer switch).

What ever panel(s) are after the service disconnect breaker will be a "sub panel". Each sub panel will have its own main feed breaker on the main service entrance panel. 

If you have breakers on the utility feed from the meter to your main panel you don't have a service disconnect - you have the main breaker plus each individual other breaker that would have to be cut off to "disconnect service". That doesn't make any sense and I don't know that would even be code compliant? 

The point is the feed from the utility "should" come in to one panel then it can branch out any which way - through additional breakers to feed those branches.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> Where is your service entrance panel? This is the panel that will have the main service breaker - 100 amp, 200 amp, 300 amp, 400 amp.... It should have a sticker on it that says "service disconnect" on the breaker. This panel is the one you would have to feed in to with an interlock set up. Or, you could put a transfer switch between the service feed (from the meter) and the main panel. That would require a lot more work and would also involve the electric company killing power to your branch from the pole or transformer box (your branch has a service disconnect at the utility line - but the utility company would have to work it, coordinated with your electrician doing the install/wiring of the transfer switch).
> 
> What ever panel(s) are after the service disconnect breaker will be a "sub panel". Each sub panel will have its own main feed breaker on the main service entrance panel.
> 
> ...


 Hmnm, without getting into this too deeply. Multiple sub panels, one for house, one for pool. No way to feed all with a single connection unless that connection was able to go between line coming in from power company like say what a Generlink does.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

iowagold said:


> bad idea on the anderson they are for low volts.


More info. SB120 is rated to 600v AC/DC. See page 3 of the spec sheet:


https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SB120/ds-sb120.pdf



The PP series, or PowerPole, is easier to stack (IE - you can link them in a square block of 2 rows x 2 columns for your 4 connections for split phase 120/240v AC). I didn't think they made them past 50 amps or so but they do. I am not sure on the Winco generator which series, PP or SB, they use. In any event, the rating on the PP120's is also 600v AC/DC. See page 3 of the spec sheet:


https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/PP120/DS-PP120.pdf


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Bulldogger said:


> What motivated the generator purchase was the effort I had to exert to keep my pool plumbing from freezing during the last winter ice storm in the south. The cost of breaking up the concrete to get to plumbing would be multiples of the cost of the Powerhouse generator so I bought it. I lowered the pool level and pumped pool anti-freeze in the line. A big hassle because I had to blow the water out of the lines with my shop vac first.
> 
> In the event of another such freeze, I'd just disconnect my pool from the power grid and run a line straight off the generator. The running watts on the pump says 2700 watts but a about 20% more when it's priming. The main circuit panel that feeds my home does not have breakers for the central a/c but does for the furnace. The disconnects for the central a/c are outside below the meter, along with ones for dryer and pool. The only way converting all the power to a single outlet would be feasible is to inject right after the meter I am guessing? How would I do that? Then I would not have to worry about sending power to pool and the reminder to house. Without the central a/c powered, the 12500 watts is more than enough to power the household. I would like the option of powering one of my central a/c units in summer and not powering pool. In winter, I would power pool and not central a/c.


just do a main service disconnect panel by the meter and then do the interlock at that box.
or replace the meter box with a new service disconnect / meter box.
make sure it has room for a sub breaker.
and that they make a interlock for it as well.
pm if you need help on locating the parts


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

For the pool, consider getting a variable speed pump. I just switched from a 1HP Hayward SuperPump (drawing over 1500 watts) to a Pentair 3HP VSP and most of the day it is running at 1500 rpm and less than 200 watts.

I agree that a main service disconnect with interlock is probably the best solution.


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> Multiple sub panels, one for house, one for pool. No way to feed all with a single connection unless that connection was able to go between line coming in from power company like say what a Generlink does.


I am not sure you are understanding the theory. 

To simplify the example - consider a single panel. Leave the sub panels alone for the thought process here, we'll bring them in later. 

The service entrance panel will have your main breaker on it (rated to the service you have - say, like ours here, is 200 amp service so we have a 200 amp breaker). The main service breaker is the "on/off" switch to the power grid, if you will. 

Here is the main point to understand - the rails of the service panel/main panel are all the same circuits. Every breaker that mounts to that box is connected to the same circuits (I say that plural because household power is split phase so on 120v you have 2 - 2 hots and one neutral, on 240v the breakers for those loads tie the two hot rails together, which is why they take up 2 spaces in the box - to connect to both hot rails). 

Now - take the above thought and REVERSE it. If the rails in the breaker box are fed from the power grid through the main breaker then the small breakers distribute to the loads - what happens when you disconnect the power grid and "back feed" from your generator, through a smaller breaker, to those same power rails? The same thing happens as when the power grid power hits the rails - the power goes out to all the small breakers. 

This is why finding your service entrance panel is key - that is the one that will have your disconnect for the power grid. And.... it is also the one that will do the initial load distribution. 

Now bring in the sub panels. Each sub panel will have a breaker on the main panel. So, think of each sub panel as an individual load. The breaker for that panel will be on the main panel and that breaker is the on/off switch for the power going to that whole panel to be further divided*. 

*I presume your AC etc being on another panel was because that was upgraded later and the original panel was not big enough to carry the additional load. So instead of upgrading the original whole panel, they moved the service entrance and set up the original panel as a sub-panel then fed it off a higher capacity service entrance panel on which the higher AC load etc is also placed. That is just a guess. However, the cost to upgrade a whole house breaker box - to rewire ALL those circuits, install the new box, etc, etc - would be more expensive than leaving that box intact and adding another one - probably by quite a bit more due to the time involved in rewiring. A lot of times you can't simply use the same wires because when they were installed they were specific to the box that was there. If the wires are too short you have to lengthen them. That all takes time and an electricians time is good money $$$. 

Your Generlink idea is one way. That, electrically speaking, is the exact same thing that I am getting at with feeding your main panel. It is another method, but electrically it works identically. It allows you to disconnect the service feed and run your generator power in to the rails on the main panel. There is no difference between that and feeding through another breaker, really. The power distribution is the same once your on the main rails in the box. Though, I think Generlinks are rated up to 30 amps I believe. If you have an 18kw running wattage generator you are leaving a LOT on the table limiting yourself to 30 amps. 

Hope this helps clear up the mud!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

Browse Deweb said:


> For the pool, consider getting a variable speed pump. I just switched from a 1HP Hayward SuperPump (drawing over 1500 watts) to a Pentair 3HP VSP and most of the day it is running at 1500 rpm and less than 200 watts.
> 
> I agree that a main service disconnect with interlock is probably the best solution.


 That's the pump I have. My pool would turn green running at that speed. My pool may be a lot larger. I checked it primes at 2700 watts and is running at 1800 watts. 200 watts, no way my pool would run on that.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> I am not sure you are understanding the theory.
> 
> To simplify the example - consider a single panel. Leave the sub panels alone for the thought process here, we'll bring them in later.
> 
> ...


 Nope. You make a lot of assumptions that aren't accurate. With the natural gas conversion, I had the company that supplied the kit offering tech support as well as a local propane supplier. I am not about to modify my generator without the same sort of support. You and Gold seem to be disagreeing even on what kind of pins to use in the plug??? It's clear you have never done this. Naw. I'll leave my generator alone and do as I originally intended. Thanks for idea.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Bulldogger said:


> That's the pump I have. My pool would turn green running at that speed. My pool may be a lot larger. I checked it primes at 2700 watts and is running at 1800 watts. 200 watts, no way my pool would run on that.


My pool is 33k gallons. It's big. Starts up at 2300 rpm for a few hours for priming and skimming, then runs at 1500 rpm the rest of the day. The wattage isn't linear to rpm. You get a huge electricity savings running a bit lower rpm. Check the pump display and you should be able to read the wattage at each speed.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> Nope. You make a lot of assumptions that aren't accurate. With the natural gas conversion, I had the company that supplied the kit offering tech support as well as a local propane supplier. I am not about to modify my generator without the same sort of support. You and Gold seem to be disagreeing even on what kind of pins to use in the plug??? It's clear you have never done this. Naw. I'll leave my generator alone and do as I originally intended. Thanks for idea.


...Unless there is something very unusual or wrong with your homes electrical system, flyfisher is pretty much spot on...


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## FlyFisher (Jun 30, 2018)

Bulldogger said:


> Thanks for idea.


There are more ways than one. If nothing else we've given you food for thought and enough to get a better handle on both the generator side and your specific power distribution. 

If you do, in fact, have devices running off the service feed between your main breaker in the house and the meter - you have multiple "service disconnects". I'm not saying it's impossible, but that raises some concern to me. 

Good luck with it and let us know what you come up with. Just don't cut yourself short on the amperage you can push from that generator through 1 plug.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> There are more ways than one. If nothing else we've given you food for thought and enough to get a better handle on both the generator side and your specific power distribution.
> 
> If you do, in fact, have devices running off the service feed between your main breaker in the house and the meter - you have multiple "service disconnects". I'm not saying it's impossible, but that raises some concern to me.
> 
> Good luck with it and let us know what you come up with. Just don't cut yourself short on the amperage you can push from that generator through 1 plug.


 Do I have to say that I don't plan to keep the generator but a few years? I actually would not want to limit the generator to a single outlet. I don't wish to modify it. You do realize I could just buy a standby generator if that's what I wanted? You kind of jumped in with all fours in a topic that seemed so good that it's crazy not to do it. Whoa buddy, whoa. Appreciate you trying to solve this "problem," for me, but you really have to ask questions of the person to really give good advice. Otherwise you are giving advice based upon a lot of assumptions. I also wanted to try to keep thread on topic and was trying to avoid a discussion on how one might convert a generator to higher amperage single outlet especially when it's not advice I desired.

From my prospective, if one wanted have a only a standby generator, you can just buy one for near cost of my generator. The 200 amp transfer switches are about what $700 or $800? Plus install. Do I have to say, that I'm close to retirement and don't plan to keep this house? Thus, the 50 amp line and an interlock switch is going to work fine and lose less money. Running separate line to pool and that fore-mentioned approach will save me thousands of dollars between just switch and install on what's a few years use at best? Installing a standby generator at a house that you will sell in a few years will not provide a return on investment. I've sold a couple of big portable with ease and the same will happen with this one.


Browse Deweb said:


> My pool is 33k gallons. It's big. Starts up at 2300 rpm for a few hours for priming and skimming, then runs at 1500 rpm the rest of the day. The wattage isn't linear to rpm. You get a huge electricity savings running a bit lower rpm. Check the pump display and you should be able to read the wattage at each speed.


 It's not running pump under normal conditions that was the intention. It's freeze conditions at say 10 degrees. Most of guys that have been through this tell me , that you can not just run the water at low speed to keep it from freezing in teens or single digit temps. I would assume there are a lot of variables besides RPM of the engine that would determine flow the the water like the type of filter being used, and and the filter medium if using a sand filter. I use an artificial sand in a large sand filter which increases pressure and reduces flow. My pool is 36k gallons.. I have tried the approaches you cite, kind of why you buy a pump like this to run at variable speeds. Ended up with so much algae it looked like green jello on the steps. I think there is a design flaw, but that's another off topic tangent. I would agree there there is likely some combination that would work if I continued to seek it but that's not the purpose of generator. During another ice storm I'd likely run the pump at max rpm and that's my load consideration and hence the large portable. I bought the generator run pump to prevent the pool from freezing at low or single digit temps.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

FlyFisher said:


> Though, I think Generlinks are rated up to 30 amps I believe. If you have an 18kw running wattage generator you are leaving a LOT on the table limiting yourself to 30 amps.


 40 amp or 30 amp model. You have to first contact your local utility and see if it's allowed to use a Generlink. Entergy for example does not allow it but there are a lot that do. The 40 amp Generlink would cover most peoples needs. I have Entergy.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> ...Unless there is something very unusual or wrong with your homes electrical system, flyfisher is pretty much spot on...


 Down a rabbit hole.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

Bulldogger said:


> It's not running pump under normal conditions that was the intention. It's freeze conditions at say 10 degrees. Most of guys that have been through this tell me , that you can not just run the water at low speed to keep it from freezing in teens or single digit temps. I would assume there are a lot of variables besides RPM of the engine that would determine flow the the water like the type of filter being used, and and the filter medium if using a sand filter. I use an artificial sand in a large sand filter which increases pressure and reduces flow. My pool is 36k gallons.. I have tried the approaches you cite, kind of why you buy a pump like this to run at variable speeds. Ended up with so much algae it looked like green jello on the steps. I think there is a design flaw, but that's another off topic tangent. I would agree there there is likely some combination that would work if I continued to seek it but that's not the purpose of generator. During another ice storm I'd likely run the pump at max rpm and that's my load consideration and hence the large portable. I bought the generator run pump to prevent the pool from freezing at low or single digit temps.


If the temps are really low, a higher RPM will surely help. No doubt about it. 

The algae thing is a whole different story. First thing is that it is extremely difficult for algae to grow in water temps below 60 deg F, so that won't be a concern during a winter outage. My pool is closed from November through March with no running pump or filter and I open to a clear pool every April. 

Most people who haven't spent much time on the TroubleFreePool site don't fully understand pool water chemistry and believe what the pool store tells them (i.e. free chlorine levels between 1-4 ppm). There is a very important relationship between free chlorine (FC) and stabilizer (CYA) highlighted in this FC/CYA chart that must be followed in order to prevent algae from growing. The FC/CYA relationship and science/chemistry behind it is well documented here. The main reason people develop algae in their pools is not due to circulation but to lack of adequate sanitizer.

I highly recommend anyone who owns a pool and wants to get a better handle on how to maintain it go visit the TroubleFreePool forum and read the information at their leisure. There is no better group of people on the internet when it comes to pools.


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## square1 (11 mo ago)

If the 3400w peak will work, you could try this Champion3400-Watt Dual Fuel. I have a champion that we use to charge batteries all the time at work.
Nice quiet generator with electric start.


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## square1 (11 mo ago)

Thanks


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## square1 (11 mo ago)

They are fine for cheap knockabout units for running motors and pumps, but they will destroy sensitive electronics.


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