# Split panel feed question



## Fig (Mar 16, 2021)

My home has 2 electrical panels in the garage with 400A service coming in. The main panel has more high demand things on it than the secondary panel. I would say they are about 70/30 speaking in terms of load demand. I have the *Powerhorse Generator with Electric Start — 27,000 Surge Watts, 18,000 Rated Watts *on the way*. *It puts out 12,000 watts through the 50A plug and the remaining 6000 through the others. I plan on feeding the main panel with the 50A inlet plug, and the secondary panel with the 30A 240V inlet plug. Here is my question. The 2 panels are connected together via wire and a 100A double pole breaker. Can I turn on that breaker, connecting the 2 panels together allowing either panel to access the full surge watts if needed? If not, then I am limited to 12K watts on the main panel and 6K on the secondary. I am thinking it should be ok since all the power is coming from the same source, but I also don't want to damage the gen or burn anything up trying this. I know ideally I should have a transfer switch, but I do have a 400A disconnect that feeds the panels, by turning that off it is doing the same thing as a transfer switch. Thanks for any assistance that can be provided.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Fig said:


> My home has 2 electrical panels in the garage with 400A service coming in. The main panel has more high demand things on it than the secondary panel. I would say they are about 70/30 speaking in terms of load demand. I have the *Powerhorse Generator with Electric Start — 27,000 Surge Watts, 18,000 Rated Watts *on the way*. *It puts out 12,000 watts through the 50A plug and the remaining 6000 through the others. I plan on feeding the main panel with the 50A inlet plug, and the secondary panel with the 30A 240V inlet plug. Here is my question. The 2 panels are connected together via wire and a 100A double pole breaker. Can I turn on that breaker, connecting the 2 panels together allowing either panel to access the full surge watts if needed? If not, then I am limited to 12K watts on the main panel and 6K on the secondary. I am thinking it should be ok since all the power is coming from the same source, but I also don't want to damage the gen or burn anything up trying this. I know ideally I should have a transfer switch, but I do have a 400A disconnect that feeds the panels, by turning that off it is doing the same thing as a transfer switch. Thanks for any assistance that can be provided.


best to do a LARGE main disconnect breaker at the meter with breakers there for the whole property.
then do a generator inlet with interlock or transfer switch there.
it is code now for 2021 nec to have a disconnect at the meter.. 
now might be a good time to update..

I would do the super expensive 100 to 150 amp inlet setup..
they run 500 bucks an end or more.... and then you are looking at BIG cable for the drop cord...
4/4 at the min and 4/2 at the nom size..

you are looking at thousands of bucks in the cords and ultra H duty connectors.

I would take the generator to a good generator service shop with a real good HD load bank and test it first....
1000cc is awfully small engine for 18kw of real power...

it might be over rated and the real power closer to 10kw to 12 kw by the math....
do some generator testing before you invest in the super expensive inlets etc.


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## BobS (Aug 26, 2020)

Looking at the manual, this generator requires frequent maintenance. Oil changes every 25 hours and valve clearance every 100 hours. The specs also show the frequency ranges from 56.5 to 63.3 hertz. Most battery backups and sensitive electronics will not work at the end of these ranges. This monster will eat gas like crazy, even when producing very little power. I also questions the max. power produced on a 999cc engine. Running this generator at a high load may shorten its lifespan.


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## Fig (Mar 16, 2021)

Beginning to wonder if I would be better off with two of the 7500 workhorse inverters paralleled together. Just wish they had fuel injection like my Honda did.


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## BobS (Aug 26, 2020)

I would determine what your must have load is and also how much gas you are willing to keep around. I would list your biggest loads and see if there are other options in an emergency (ie: portable AC's, etc). The above powerhourse would require 48 gallons per day at a 50% load with a daily oil change. If your must have loads are that high you may need to look into other options (standby, trailer, different fuel source, ....).


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

iowagold said:


> I would take the generator to a good generator service shop with a real good HD load bank and test it first....
> 1000cc is awfully small engine for 18kw of real power...
> 
> it might be over rated and the real power closer to 10kw to 12 kw by the math....
> do some generator testing before you invest in the super expensive inlets etc.


 Has anyone ever tested the Generac 17500. It's using a bit smaller engine, and rated about the same. 17500 continuous watts and 26500 surge. I'd say that would be an good indication if the specs can be achieved.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

BobS said:


> Looking at the manual, this generator requires frequent maintenance. Oil changes every 25 hours and valve clearance every 100 hours. The specs also show the frequency ranges from 56.5 to 63.3 hertz. Most battery backups and sensitive electronics will not work at the end of these ranges. This monster will eat gas like crazy, even when producing very little power. I also questions the max. power produced on a 999cc engine. Running this generator at a high load may shorten its lifespan.


 Do some other generators have longer intervals? I remember after Katrina gas stations ran out of oil because everyone was changing at 30 hours per local news for all generators. I looked at options but found only other generator near size had high distortion. This generator claims 5% distortion so should be safe for sensitive electronics if that spec is accurate. Is it possible to have both 56.5 to 63.3 hertz range and still have 5% distortion? Even though that's the range, wouldn't the generator have to be pretty stable if that' the true distortion is 5%?

Looks like the value clearance at 100 hours is common. But changing oil every 25 hours is not. Cummings makes some home standby generators that are close in price to this generator and have much longer oil change intervals.


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## BobS (Aug 26, 2020)

Bulldogger said:


> Do some other generators have longer intervals? I remember after Katrina gas stations ran out of oil because everyone was changing at 30 hours per local news for all generators. I looked at options but found only other generator near size had high distortion. This generator claims 5% distortion so should be safe for sensitive electronics if that spec is accurate. Is it possible to have both 56.5 to 63.3 hertz range and still have 5% distortion? Even though that's the range, wouldn't the generator have to be pretty stable if that' the true distortion is 5%?
> 
> Looks like the value clearance at 100 hours is common. But changing oil every 25 hours is not. Cummings makes some home standby generators that are close in price to this generator and have much longer oil change intervals.


The only gas generators I have use Honda engines which are 100 hour oil changes and valve adjustments at 300 hours. My diesel 11kw is 100 hours per oil change and my Isuzu 20kw is 250 hours. The hertz is dependent on the speed of the engine and does not effect the TDH. The quality of the generator head determines the TDH. The governor type and load on the engine determines the speed of the engine which determines the hertz (and possibility the voltage). If the TDH is very high or the hertz or voltage are out of range, then battery backups and certain electronics (including lights) may have issues. The TDH, voltage and hertz determine the quality of power.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

BobS said:


> The only gas generators I have use Honda engines which are 100 hour oil changes and valve adjustments at 300 hours. My diesel 11kw is 100 hours per oil change and my Isuzu 20kw is 250 hours. The hertz is dependent on the speed of the engine and does not effect the TDH. The quality of the generator head determines the TDH. The governor type and load on the engine determines the speed of the engine which determines the hertz (and possibility the voltage). If the TDH is very high or the hertz or voltage are out of range, then battery backups and certain electronics (including lights) may have issues. The TDH, voltage and hertz determine the quality of power.


 Thanks! Guess I can assume that the engine is not a Honda clone then, lol, or at least not a very good one. I'm also wondering if the maintance schedule isn't a ploy to evade warranty. This is very good information. This site has helped me immensely. I was going to cancel my order but am going to proceed. "Perfect is the enemy of good." If I wait, I'm just going to get caught unprepared like I did with the last freeze.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

some food for thought
compared to a car with a spin oil filter.
25 hours = 1500 miles
50 hours = 3000 miles
100 hours = 6000 miles

this is why some like the synthetic oils the best and use the zddp additive.
and why i say use the oil magnets on all engines! even with a spin filter if you have one!


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

BobS said:


> Looking at the manual, this generator requires frequent maintenance. Oil changes every 25 hours and valve clearance every 100 hours. The specs also show the frequency ranges from 56.5 to 63.3 hertz. Most battery backups and sensitive electronics will not work at the end of these ranges. This monster will eat gas like crazy, even when producing very little power. I also questions the max. power produced on a 999cc engine. Running this generator at a high load may shorten its lifespan.


Yah, oil changes every 25 hours gets old real quick. Especially during an emergency. I would think that after several oil changes done at the recommended interval, if at the very least to preserve the warranty, it would be fine to increase the oil change interval to 50 hours. If you wanted to go farther do a UOA sample. Kinda overkill though on a unit that would only have a qt or two in the sump. I'm not sure if this engine has a spin on oil filter or not but it would be a good idea to find a magnetic drain plug for it regardless. I use AMSOIL synthetic small engine oil in my small engines (mostly Hondas) and it can go as far as 200 hours. It's not recommended, as explained in the link below, but is a good safety margin during an emergency, when you maybe can't shut down to change the oil as often as you should. Dutchy





4 Stroke Power Equipment: Shop Oil for 4 Stroke Equipment - AMSOIL


Shop for 4 Stroke Power Equipment at AMSOIL. Find the full line of premium AMSOIL products and buy online for delivery to your home.




www.amsoil.com


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm having trouble getting my head around this generator. 18,000 watts but not a dual fuel? Gas consumption would be astronomical. 510lbs, however it does offer an optional wheel kit.  Claims THD of 5%, but my opinion of THD in generators is the same as HP in small engines. $3,000 which does put it at the high end, not Honda, but up there. It does offer 50A and 30A connections, the OP intends to use both. It seems that when a generator has both, the intent was either/or and not both to be used-asking a question. 

I would think that the best way to use this was to convert to NG or LPG connected to a large tank. Which would be a backwards way of getting into a "sorta" whole house generator, but not really. There's also the 10-20% derating or less KW depending on fuel chosen. 

If the OP genuinely needs 18KW in an outage scenario, that's where a whole house unit comes in. Not cheap for generator and installation but if there's a genuine need..... I think that most of us can get by with <5KW to power only critical items and get through an outage. 

The discussion on oil change frequency I find amusing, during an outage I run my generator 12-14 hours and shut off. Adequate to keep frig and freezer happy and let everyone charge phones, tablets, watch TV, etc. That translates to oil change every four days which is not a problem. I purchase 5W-30 synthetic in five quart containers and use it for all small engines so always have plenty on hand. Also, guess I'm conservative, but don't like the idea of a gas engine running with everyone asleep.









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JMHO


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

exmar said:


> I'm having trouble getting my head around this generator. 18,000 watts but not a dual fuel? Gas consumption would be astronomical. 510lbs, however it does offer an optional wheel kit.  Claims THD of 5%, but my opinion of THD in generators is the same as HP in small engines. $3,000 which does put it at the high end, not Honda, but up there. It does offer 50A and 30A connections, the OP intends to use both. It seems that when a generator has both, the intent was either/or and not both to be used-asking a question.
> 
> I would think that the best way to use this was to convert to NG or LPG connected to a large tank. Which would be a backwards way of getting into a "sorta" whole house generator, but not really. There's also the 10-20% derating or less KW depending on fuel chosen.
> 
> ...


 I spoke with Northern Tool. They say generator is 5% distortion at 18000 watts or any load it's rated for. They were sure.. Generac wants $11K for a comparable standby generator installed. It think it's like $200 or $300 a year for some maintenance plan? I see 13k to 14k total in 10 years. This generator is a bargain in comparison even if you add another 2k for install.. Generac uses a smaller engine for 22KW standby. Northern tool assures me it meets all specs. I think 999cc is in the 37 horse power range. I called today.

I am working on the natural gas conversion/ tri-fuel conversion. I agree, gasoline isn't going to be very practical but you're not getting a generator with dual fuel and 18000 watts @ 5% distortion anywhere near 3k. My hope was that I could get a company to do it. Matt at PNGtechnologies says NO, and not unless he has actual generator to load test and make custom kit, but one monkey don't stop no show. I'll figure it out with some help if no company does it for me.

I want a big generator. " I don't want to just live. I want to party!" I went through Hurricane Katrina in my home town, New Orleans, with a 5500 watt/6500 surge generator and some more after that. Window unit in the bed room, Directv, tuna and crackers, "poke-n-beans"  in da microwave, cold showers, and pistol under the pillow; well I still do that .. and I have had enough of that. Most of my family,.90% is on the Gulf Coast from Houston to New Orleans. All the guys with means, and that's most, are getting Generacs. I'm still thinking a total of 14K for 10 years coverage for maybe 2 weeks without power? Naw, they aint' gettin my money!

Oh, the wheel kit with 13 inch tires is standard not optional. At the weight of generator, that's still a big concern. But for hey 3k, vs Generac, I'll figure it out.


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