# Question on back up home generator and trifuel conversion



## UNCMo96 (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm a newbie this whole area and never used a generator before so forgive me if these are stupid questions.
I'm renovating my backyard and my electrician is installing a 50amp plug for a portable generator. (for a variety of reasons I can't do the Generac style built in generator which I would prefer)

1. He feels like I would need 50amps at 220V or 11000 running Watts for the generator. What are some good options in this range. How is the Westinghouse WGen12000?

2. I have natural gas in my backyard for my grills. I see there are options to convert this generator to tri-fuel. Is it possible to convert a dual fuel generator to NG like you would with a gas grill?. It seems like this would be easier than doing a trifuel conversion. I notice the Westinghouse comes as dual fuel which is why I ask.

3. From a practical if the power goes out and there is precipitation can you leave these types of generators outside? I see there are covers but I imagine this is for storage and not during use? 

Thanks!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

UNCMo96 said:


> I'm a newbie this whole area and never used a generator before so forgive me if these are stupid questions.
> I'm renovating my backyard and my electrician is installing a 50amp plug for a portable generator. (for a variety of reasons I can't do the Generac style built in generator which I would prefer)
> 
> 1. He feels like I would need 50amps at 220V or 11000 running Watts for the generator. What are some good options in this range. How is the Westinghouse WGen12000?
> ...


 The WGen12000DF looks like a great choice, remote start, low distortion and dual fuel. There are two models, one with without dual fuel. Really you likely need more of an adjustment to the gas regulator than a conversion to natural gas. Natural gas has to be "opened" up a bit.


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## exmar (Jun 29, 2015)

Dual Fuel is good for lots of reasons. Be aware that the wattage for the generator gets decreased 10% for LPG and 15-20% for NG, so the 12000W would become 9600. If you need 11,000 you're into a bigger generator. There have been posts here concerning using grill connections for a generator. It seems that usually the grill connection is inadequate for the amount of NG the generator requires resulting in running a new line from the meter. Chat with a plumber and have the NG consumption of the intended generator.

A rule of thumb on the portables is they should be run at HALF their rated wattage for fuel consumption and generator longevity. so 11,000W steady state becomes suspect in a portable. Maybe you don't need everything running you initially thought to decrease load? 

Generators definitely don't like to be in the rain-period. If you don't have a porch or other protected space a generator shed with louvers and interlocked fans would be needed.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you're trying to turn a portable into a whole house unit. It can be done, but cost is going to increase substantially and in the final analysis you have a portable "sorta" acting like a whole house unit. Lot of negatives and few positives of a true whole house unit.

I'd take a hard look at how much power you realistically need during an outage and see if a smaller unit could be used.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

exmar said:


> Unfortunately, it sounds like you're trying to turn a portable into a whole house unit. It can be done, but cost is going to increase substantially and in the final analysis you have a portable "sorta" acting like a whole house unit. Lot of negatives and few positives of a true whole house unit.
> 
> I'd take a hard look at how much power you realistically need during an outage and see if a smaller unit could be used.


 That's what I did. I'm very happy with decision to use large portable. I could not justify cost of standby generator for the amount of outages I see and I do see them a few times a year. I am in the deep south and it's hot in the south. If you are not in the south, the 100% humidity and 100 degree temps might not be a consideration for the amount of power one needs. I need enough power to run at least one of my central air units. Really this generator is the "sweet spot " cause 50 amps is really all you can really get out of portable for one connection. I bought a used 120 gallon/420 pound vertical propane tank to run my generator and I have two 25 gallon tanks. One of my cousins called me after Ida," Did that big generator of yours come on automatically?" He knew it didn't. My retort was how many months have you been waiting for that Generac that's costing you 12k installed?


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## agksimon (Jan 25, 2021)

I see a lot of places lost natural gas delivery during IDA, so you can't depend on that either, in hurricane prone areas.


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## UNCMo96 (Sep 4, 2021)

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I'm in Long Island NY. With Hurricane Sandy we lost power for about 6 days. However, I'd say at least 1-2 times a year we lose power for a few hours due to trees taking out power lines from storms and hurricanes sometimes more than a few hours. Initially I did want to put one of those generac automatic transfer natural gas units on our house. However, due to being in NY there's all kind of code and permit issues (we'd need a variance to put one where we want to put it). 

With the backyard reno since we were running new wiring anyway for a hot tub my electrician said it would be easy to just conduit the 50amp wire for the generator and said he did something similar in his own house. I realize I won't be able to power EVERYTHING. We have dual zone central air so I know that's not possible. However, my biggest concerns are our fridges and freezer so we don't lose the food and have lights to function and keep the internet going (although I know that can go out as well along with the natural gas). I think I'll give the westinghouse a shot. I found a pretty easy NG conversion kit. Thanks!


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

UNCMo96 said:


> I found a pretty easy NG conversion kit. Thanks!


 What kit? I thought you were getting the dual fuel version and had just not included the DF. Seems like dual fuel version might be easier to convert to natural gas.


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## UNCMo96 (Sep 4, 2021)

Bulldogger said:


> What kit? I thought you were getting the dual fuel version and had just not included the DF. Seems like dual fuel version might be easier to convert to natural gas.


This kit:





Westinghouse Generator Kits


Propane and Natural Gas Kits for Westinghouse Generators



pngtec.com


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

UNCMo96 said:


> This kit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ok. Should be easy install. The expensive solution for weather protection is Generator Enclosures | Soundproof Generator Sheds (zombiebox.com) . You may need to build or modify a shed to protect it. I didn't have anything built so for Ida, I used a tent to cover mine but lowered and tied to cinderblocks. Quest Q64 10' x 10' Instant Up Slant Leg Canopy | DICK'S Sporting Goods (dickssportinggoods.com) Of course tent will not work in high winds but after the storm passes it works.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I'm on long island and I converted my Honda EU7000is to run on natural gas. It runs the whole house, with the exception of the main 4-ton HVAC unit. I have a mini-split in the basement that can cool a large area in the event we need air conditioning during an outage. We have mostly gas appliances, so the power draw is typically only around 2-3kw. That includes the variable speed pool pump. The gen runs off of a 1/2" gas line that used to feed a gas fireplace insert.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

@*Browse Deweb*

what brand and model on the mini split?
any real world run numbers on it?


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

UNCMo96 said:


> This kit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Their kits look pretty good. Everything is labeled custom kit, I assume mounting locations and hardware are all well thought out. Many kits are universal and make it work. The fuel outlet adapter looks a lot like UScarbs “motor snorkel” minus the tube through the throat the the carb. 

Their hose kits look a little unimpressive. The hose ends are only worm clamps instead of being crimped.


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## Bulldogger (Feb 19, 2021)

drmerdp said:


> The fuel outlet adapter looks a lot like UScarbs “motor snorkel” minus the tube through the throat the the carb.
> 
> Their hose kits look a little unimpressive. The hose ends are only worm clamps instead of being crimped.


 I think Matt gets a lot of his stuff from UScarbs. UScarbs is a lot more helpful company than PNGtech. His videos are detailed however.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

I’ve only used USCarb for conversions, but they have been excellent.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hutch has good hoses.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

good choice with the westinghouse 12000df - I say that only because it may be the EASIEST TO CONVERT TO NG! Since it already comes with a Garretts kn regulator you pretty much just have to bypass the lpg regulator and put your connections on it. As others have said you really need a gen tent or a shed to run the generator in. As far as natural gas goes I wouldnt run off your bbq hookup. It's most likely not going to be big enough. I tapped in right at my meter and put a T valve in and run a hose straight to the generator. This way you know you're getting full pressure and you're not going to starve any other appliances. The money you save on labor is offset by the cost of the hose unfortunately depending on how long you need. I'm running a 50ft to my durostar 12000 and it runs great.









Premium Natural Gas Hose with Quick Disconnect Kit


Whole Home Emergency Power Solutions in a Portable Design, Made in the USA with Premium Honda Engines




ab3power.com


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

what did you end up getting?


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## UNCMo96 (Sep 4, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> what did you end up getting?


 I literally just ordered the westinghouse. it's been out of stock for MONTHS! your messaged prompted to check. As far as the NG. How much output is needed? I have about 150,000 BTUs of grills that I'm supplying.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

UNCMo96 said:


> I literally just ordered the westinghouse. it's been out of stock for MONTHS! your messaged prompted to check. As far as the NG. How much output is needed? I have about 150,000 BTUs of grills that I'm supplying.


Which westinghouse did you get the 9500df or the 12000df? I have 6-8 wc on my meter's regulator and ran a 50ft natural gas hose right from the meter to the generator. The 9500df runs perfectly with this setup with a standard NG conversion kit that I got from century fuels. As for the 12000df, I swapped out the stock regulator with a century kn 039-122 and just connected that straight to the oem hose that goes to the carb for propane (bypassing the propane regulator. It runs half decent but under load I can tell it's starving for fuel. I'm going to try a straight 3/8 to 1/2 fitting instead of the power valve elbow, I think that will give me just the little boost I need. But if you have the 9500df you shouldn't have a problem getting that to run as long as you're running a 3/4" hose. I should have the new fitting in a few days so I'll let you know. If that doesn't work then it could be the 50ft run is too long for that big of an engine. Moral of the story - the 12000df twin cylinder requires significantly more fuel than the 9500df (obviously). I had no problems getting enough fuel to the 9500 but looks like I'm right on the cusp with the 12000


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## UNCMo96 (Sep 4, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> Which westinghouse did you get the 9500df or the 12000df? I have 6-8 wc on my meter's regulator and ran a 50ft natural gas hose right from the meter to the generator. The 9500df runs perfectly with this setup with a standard NG conversion kit that I got from century fuels. As for the 12000df, I swapped out the stock regulator with a century kn 039-122 and just connected that straight to the oem hose that goes to the carb for propane (bypassing the propane regulator. It runs half decent but under load I can tell it's starving for fuel. I'm going to try a straight 3/8 to 1/2 fitting instead of the power valve elbow, I think that will give me just the little boost I need. But if you have the 9500df you shouldn't have a problem getting that to run as long as you're running a 3/4" hose. I should have the new fitting in a few days so I'll let you know. If that doesn't work then it could be the 50ft run is too long for that big of an engine. Moral of the story - the 12000df twin cylinder requires significantly more fuel than the 9500df (obviously). I had no problems getting enough fuel to the 9500 but looks like I'm right on the cusp with the 12000


I got the 12000df. I'll ask my plumber who set up my outdoor kitchen to see if the specs match. So you have 2 generators?


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

UNCMo96 said:


> I got the 12000df. I'll ask my plumber who set up my outdoor kitchen to see if the specs match. So you have 2 generators?


Yes I have the westinghouse wgen9500df and wgen12000df. I just switched the fitting on my regulator on my 12000df and now it's running absolutely perfect on natural gas. The other thing I will say about this generator that's impressive is the frequency. It's nearly dead on 60hz. Both the wgen9500 and my old duromax 12000 would fluctuate between 59 and 62 depending on the load. This thing doesn't skip a beat! I haven't even nearly pushed it to it's limit but just running my house without large loads (hot tub, A/C) it literally hasn't even hiccupped. If you're planning on converting your westinghouse 12000 just search on you tube - PNG technologies has a how to video that shows how simple it is. Instead of using a the "power valve" he references in the video I used this:








Everbilt 1/2 in. Barb x 3/8 in. MIP Brass Adapter Fitting 800199 - The Home Depot


These hose barbs are made of durable, corrosion resistant and lead-free brass while conforming to NSF 61 and 372 and are registered in Mass. They have several barbs to hold when inserted into tubing. Best for use with plastic, vinyl or rubber tubing. Pair with a hose clamp for a more secure fit.



www.homedepot.com





The power valve wasn't letting enough fuel in. This worked perfectly. The rest of the parts you can get at home depot too, it's basically just a 3/4" 90 degree street elbow (black iron), a couple 3/4 nipples, a full port ball valve, and a quick connect (you could just screw your NG hose on and off every time). Good luck with your new gen and NG install if you have any questions lmk


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