# Gen/Ceiling Fan Problem



## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

Purchased a new Hunter Ceiling fan to replace an older model. The first time we lost power I hooked up the Honda 3000i to the electrical system as usual. The new fan would not function. Everything else in the house worked as before. This includes the ceiling fan in another room. Then I unhooked the Honda and hooked up the Ridgid Gen to run the well pump the new fan function as it should. I've checked the wiring and install of the new fan and all is according to the instructions. I called Hunter customer service and was told that this could not be the case. Any Ideas?


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

Jerry the Ferret said:


> Purchased a new Hunter Ceiling fan to replace an older model. The first time we lost power I hooked up the Honda 3000i to the electrical system as usual. The new fan would not function. Everything else in the house worked as before. This includes the ceiling fan in another room. Then I unhooked the Honda and hooked up the Ridgid Gen to run the well pump the new fan function as it should. I've checked the wiring and install of the new fan and all is according to the instructions. I called Hunter customer service and was told that this could not be the case. Any Ideas?


Is this a remote control capable fan, if so did you try operating it w/o the remote? Some gensets produce a wireless signal that will interfere with some remote controls. Some only do it when under certain loads yet others do it when running no load only. As technology advances, the need for proper shielding grows by leaps & bounds, however some mfg's could careless as long as it works for the average consumer. A spectrum scope will find it should that be the case. Normally when things like this happen, start with the simplest, an work towards the technical. 
Many things are effected by ghost signals, these days but they all can be tracked down very easily with the right gear in the right hands.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for your reply.
There is a wall switch that supplies power to the fan. the only thing that makes the fan turn on, change speeds or turns the light on/off is the remote. I've tried turning off the AC wall switch before and after hooking up the Gen. Same results. I had a feeling that something in the electronics of the fan was not playing well with the Gen. You would think that the Honda 3000i would have clean power. Go figure


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

This discussion sounds familiar... deja vous.

Your eu3000 is a 120v generator, your house is a 120/240v system. 

How you are feeding your house with the eu3000.


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> This discussion sounds familiar... deja vous.
> 
> Your eu3000 is a 120v generator, your house is a 120/240v system.
> 
> How you are feeding your house with the eu3000.


Yup. 

Generator/Ceiling Fan Problem

Jerry, is this circuit powered at all when powering the house from the EU3000? You said previously that your Ryobi generator is 240V. As mentioned last time, it could be something as simple as this fan is on the "other" leg of your house power. If the 3000 feeds leg A, but the fan is on leg B, it won't run when using the EU3000. 

There are multiple ways to check this. One would be to look at the electrical panel, and see which leg the different fans are connected to. Or, if you have safe access to the back of the switch, for instance, check if those wires are getting 110V when on the EU3000. Or see if they're both in the same circuit breaker. If they're on the same breaker (and both fans stop when you turn off that one breaker), then this concern shouldn't apply.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

The only thing that changed in the house is the new fan. It is wired to the same wires that the previous old fan was connected to. The 3000i ran both older fans without a problem.


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## drmerdp (Apr 10, 2018)

For the sake of cover all bases.... How are you feeding the home on generator power? Inlet style, cords used...

With the eu3000 feeding the house, pull down the electrical cover on the fan and check voltage from hot to neutral and make sure your getting 120v.


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

Yeah. I'm not an electrician. But a 110V generator, feeding one leg of the panel, is different than utility power, or a 220V generator. There's also bonded-neutral stuff.

I wonder if, say, there's something really weird, like the fan is using the hot from leg A, but the neutral from leg B, if such a thing is even possible. 

Agreed with checking for voltage at the wall switch, and/or at the fan, on 3000-generator power.

I'd be surprised if it's an issue of unclean-power, personally. I'm more inclined to suspect something related to 220V input to the house, vs 110V.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

@RedOctobyr: You are right, you are not a electrcian. There is only one neutral.


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

That's ok, that's why I said it  I'm on my phone, didn't feel like trying to look that up. Thanks for clarifying that. 

But maybe there's some sort of "oddball" situation that could explain it, somehow.

Because on the surface, I'd sort of be inclined to agree with the company, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that should happen. 110 should be 110, I would think.

But I don't dispute that it _is_ happening. So just scratching my head as to what a possible cause could be.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> For the sake of cover all bases.... How are you feeding the home on generator power? Inlet style, cords used...
> 
> With the eu3000 feeding the house, pull down the electrical cover on the fan and check voltage from hot to neutral and make sure your getting 120v.


I'm feeding from the 2, 110 volt outlets on the Gen with 2, 10ga. cables. The cables are separately connected to a breaker on each side of the breaker box.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

hey jerry post a picture


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## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

A voltmeter should quickly solve this.

While this one does seem a bit of a head scratcher.. in my former life I worked on some very, uh, interesting (euphemistically speaking) electrical AND mechanical situations that defied belief. 

So keep digging, you'll figure it out.


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

FWIW, my money is on some sort of strange wiring, rather than it being due to something like unclean power from the inverter. 

As Melson said, the multimeter is where I'd go next. If you have an outlet tester, you could start by checking other outlets that are on that same circuit breaker. That would give you a way to at least check something on that circuit for unusual wiring. 

That's not as conclusive as checking the wiring for the fan itself, of course. But it doesn't require removing anything, messing with wires, etc. It's a start, and "non-invasive", and the tool is inexpensive (Home Depot and Lowes carry them too). 
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Gear-Receptacle-Indications-50542/dp/B002LZTKIA


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## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

I,too, don't believe that rf noise is affecting. 
But, I have dealt with inverter noise in the form of superimposed kilohertz square waves make a thyristor controller go absolutely silent.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> ...But maybe there's some sort of "oddball" situation that could explain it, somehow...


Well, @*Jerry the Ferret*'s entire setup is kind of oddball, for starters... He's feeding the two 120V busses from two 120V outlets on the generator that are in phase, as opposed to 180 degrees out of phase, which would be the normal 120/240V situation.

Jerry, I hope you at least have legal interlocks (somehow) to prevent accidental backfeeding of the grid. See here: Backfeeding Generator Danger—Backfeed Danger| Norwall


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## KRE (Nov 29, 2011)

*Jerry the Ferret*
By any chance is the wall switch an combo dimmer or fan speed control? If so that will explain much.


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## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

@KRE, brilliant idea. Could explain everything.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

iowagold said:


> hey jerry post a picture


Do not have camera.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

RedOctobyr said:


> FWIW, my money is on some sort of strange wiring, rather than it being due to something like unclean power from the inverter.
> 
> As Melson said, the multimeter is where I'd go next. If you have an outlet tester, you could start by checking other outlets that are on that same circuit breaker. That would give you a way to at least check something on that circuit for unusual wiring.
> 
> ...


I've done these with no solution.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

tabora said:


> Well, @*Jerry the Ferret*'s entire setup is kind of oddball, for starters... He's feeding the two 120V busses from two 120V outlets on the generator that are in phase, as opposed to 180 degrees out of phase, which would be the normal 120/240V situation.
> 
> Jerry, I hope you at least have legal interlocks (somehow) to prevent accidental backfeeding of the grid. See here: Backfeeding Generator Danger—Backfeed Danger| Norwall


The feed was done by a licensed electrician. Like I said previous fan worked correctly.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

KRE said:


> *Jerry the Ferret*
> By any chance is the wall switch an combo dimmer or fan speed control? If so that will explain much.


No, just a 15 amp wall switch.


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## RedOctobyr (Aug 8, 2018)

What about coming at it from a different direction. 

Can you use the 220V generator, but connect it like the EU3000? Don't connect it using the 220V output. Instead, use a 110V outlet, and connect it to the house the way you do with the 3000.

Now see how the fan behaves. 

You know the fan is happy with the output from the 220V generator. So this might provide a way to separate the "quality" of the power it's getting, from the 110V/220 aspect. 

Use the "good" power, but provide it as 110V. If the fan still won't run, that would point towards something with how it's wired, in my opinion.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Jerry the Ferret said:


> Do not have camera.


no smart phone?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

something is up on the wiring for sure...
wish you were closer!!
this is the kinda stuff i do well!


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

RedOctobyr said:


> What about coming at it from a different direction.
> 
> Can you use the 220V generator, but connect it like the EU3000? Don't connect it using the 220V output. Instead, use a 110V outlet, and connect it to the house the way you do with the 3000.
> 
> ...


I'll try that next time I dig out the 220v generator. I'll report back.


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## Jerry the Ferret (May 13, 2020)

iowagold said:


> no smart phone?


No cell phone. No cell phone service within 15 miles.


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## Melson (Dec 8, 2019)

I am not clear if you have used a dVOM to check for voltage. 

If a voltmeter shows 120 vac across 
the black and white fan feed wiring on _both generator and commercial_, yet it runs only when commercial, then the only sensible thing to me is some sort of electronic interaction goingon.
I have seen this before, but only twice. One of those times it was generator electronics causing interactive issues with (what we thought was rugged) scr firing. The other time I have forgotten the exact components. 
My point is that crazy stuff can occur. And maybe KRE's rf theory gains traction? 
The answer is out there, only waiting for proper troubleshooting.


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