# Help locating replacement spark plug



## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

I have a westinghosue wgen12000df and wanted to replace the spark plugs with something better than the junk TORCH plugs that came with it. The manual lists part 97110 (5357). At first I thought it was a denso since that part number matches but when I pulled the plugs they're actually Torch GAS 5357. Strange looking three pronged plug. For the life of me I can't find any cross reference matches for this, only websites in chinese that will allow you to order the same replacement. I emailed Denso and NGK as well as Westinghouse. Has anyone had any experience with these?


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

The manual lists the NGK replacement as the BP7ES. It's located on page 27 of the manual.

ETA: Oddly, it lists a Bosch plug as OE.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

LaSwamp said:


> The manual lists the NGK replacement as the BP7ES. It's located on page 27 of the manual.


I believe you're looking at the manual for the single cylinder 9500df. Ironically I own the 9500 as well. There is no mention of any NGK replacements in the 12000df manual, only lists 97110 (5357)


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

This is the link to the manual. It says it's for the 12000DF.

Link


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

LaSwamp said:


> This is the link to the manual. It says it's for the 12000DF.
> 
> Link


I'm not sure what that is but I think that site has incorrect info. I have the manual that came with the gen and when you download the manual direct from westinghouse it gives you different part #'s. That says that the plug is a Torch F7TC. That is the stock plug in the 9500df. I pulled the stock plug in the 12000df and it is is different - Torch GAS 5357. Here is a link to Westinghouse's manual 


https://cdn.westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/owners_manuals/Westinghouse_WGen12000DF_manual_web.pdf



You'll see it has different info than that link. Appreciate the help but I think that site just has that manual mislabeled. I still can't believe I can't find a cross reference for that plug!


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

LaSwamp said:


> This is the link to the manual. It says it's for the 12000DF.
> 
> Link


If I had to guess they may have changed what plugs they put in there at some point and updated the manual. That may be for an older 12000df


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

Are there any other markings on the Torch plug?


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

LaSwamp said:


> Are there any other markings on the Torch plug?


Nope just Torch GAS 5357


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

That plug number doesn't appear anywhere for Torch that I can find. 

You may have to contact Westinghouse directly and ask them about the plug. They may be able to shed some light on the specs. It may be something made just for Westinghouse.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

The Torch GAS 5357 does not seem to have a direct cross, but the NGK BPR7EIX is probably the correct plug. The Torch F7TC is listed as the plug here: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/westinghouse-ffb00e6ea3d8951c4d4f402dbc7f8073.pdf


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> The Torch GAS 5357 does not seem to have a direct cross, but the NGK BPR7EIX is probably the correct plug. The Torch F7TC is listed as the plug here: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/westinghouse-ffb00e6ea3d8951c4d4f402dbc7f8073.pdf
> View attachment 11145


The bp7r7eix is the same plug that their 9500 watt generator uses. I wonder what the deal this torch plug is! I do have emails out to westinghouse, denso, and ngk in hopes of finding a replacement


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> The Torch GAS 5357 does not seem to have a direct cross, but the NGK BPR7EIX is probably the correct plug. The Torch F7TC is listed as the plug here: https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/westinghouse-ffb00e6ea3d8951c4d4f402dbc7f8073.pdf
> View attachment 11145
> 
> 
> ...


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Yeah, probably just a change in plug from factory. The Torch F7TC crosses to NGK BP7ES (non-iridium), which in turn crosses to NGK BPR7EIX Iridium.


https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/assets/Uploads/NGK_Upgrades.pdf


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

Interesting that they make a Torch CNG 5357 also. Likely it is just a difference in spark gap.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

GenKnot said:


> Yeah, probably just a change in plug from factory. The Torch F7TC crosses to NGK BP7ES (non-iridium), which in turn crosses to NGK BPR7EIX Iridium.
> 
> 
> https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/assets/Uploads/NGK_Upgrades.pdf


I would guess the same thing. The factory switched to a different plug. They didn't redesign the engine. The different plug was probably a running change to better facilitate the dual fuel capability. The previous plugs, with their cross-reference parts, probably all work fine.

ETA: They may have had issues with the Bosch plug. If I'm not mistaken, Bosch plugs tend to run cold and that might have been problematic. So they switched to a hotter Torch part.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

LaSwamp said:


> I would guess the same thing. The factory switched to a different plug. They didn't redesign the engine. The different plug was probably a running change to better facilitate the dual fuel capability. The previous plugs, with their cross-reference parts, probably all work fine.
> 
> ETA: They may have had issues with the Bosch plug. If I'm not mistaken, Bosch plugs tend to run cold and that might have been problematic. So they switched to a hotter Torch part.


Would it do any damage if i try a bpr7eix and it isn't correct?


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> Yeah, probably just a change in plug from factory. The Torch F7TC crosses to NGK BP7ES (non-iridium), which in turn crosses to NGK BPR7EIX Iridium.
> 
> 
> https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/assets/Uploads/NGK_Upgrades.pdf


think it could hurt the engine if i try that plug and its not correct?


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> think it could hurt the engine if i try that plug and its not correct?


I think the odds of it hurting the engine are zero since the Torch F7TC is specified. If running on propane, you would probably want to close the gap down to .022-.023
https://www.autolite.com/docs/defau...ions/autolite-sparkplugs-alternative-fuel.pdf


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

did you look at Ngk Izfr5g


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

As long as it's gapped correctly and fits in the block, it will likely work fine.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

iowagold said:


> did you look at Ngk Izfr5g


I noticed from another thread that the OP is using NG. The IZFR5G may be too hot.


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## Browse Deweb (Jan 16, 2021)

I use the NGK 6637 Iridium IX Spark Plug - BPR6EIX on my Honda, gapped down to about .025 for natural gas. I would go with iridium if you can. Works great.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> think it could hurt the engine if i try that plug and its not correct?


If you can confirm that the thread diameter, thread pitch, and reach are exactly the same as what you have, there'll be no fitment issues. Plug characteristics is another thing (Resistorized or not, electrode material, heat range, etc.)


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> did you look at Ngk Izfr5g


I did not, is that particular one a match for this?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Here's some information I found in Chinese, and one that I've Google Translated...

It might help you with validating the dimensions, at least.


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

You might also want to check into the newer Ruthenium type plugs. They are an upgrade from Iridium.

I believe the NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S Ruthenium plug is the correct upgrade for NGK 4055 BPR7EIX Iridium.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> You might also want to check into the newer Ruthenium type plugs. They are an upgrade from Iridium.
> 
> I believe the NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S Ruthenium plug is the correct upgrade for NGK 4055 BPR7EIX Iridium.


oh I've never heard of Ruthenium? The only reason I am getting iridium is because it supposedly works better when running natural gas. I'll have to look into this!


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

OrlyP said:


> Here's some information I found in Chinese, and one that I've Google Translated...
> 
> It might help you with validating the dimensions, at least.
> 
> ...


that was a **** of a find!


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> I've never heard of Ruthenium


Yeah, Ruthenium plugs are fairly new to the market, but are an upgrade to the Iridium type. They do cost a little more, but with most gens you only have 1 or 2 plugs, so not much difference in $$. I would have bought one for my gen, but I had already purchased the NGK Iridium.

Just FYI... If you want to reverse engineer a plug when you have its specs but don't know the NGK equivalent or the upgrade, there is a way to do it here:





NGK.com: Search


NGK.com specializes in hard to find NGK products.




www.ngk.com


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

I heard back from NGK and e3 today - they said they have no cross reference for that plug - two down two to go. Still waiting for westinghouse and denso.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

FINALLY actually got a response from westinghouse. They did confirm that the Torch F7TC will work in my generator which is what those other manuals reference that were posted here. Not sure when or why Westinghouse switched to that weird 5357 three pronged plug but I'm glad I got some confirmation that the NGK BPR7EIX (torch f7tc iridium equivalent) will work. What's even stranger is that westinghouse doesnt even offer that weird plug that I have as a replacement. They sell the F7TC as the replacment, so I couldn't buy that 5357 plug even if I wanted to. I have a few BPR7EIX plugs laying around, now the question is this: is it worth upgrading to the iridium plugs now or wait a few years till I put some more hours on those stock ones? I wonder if there are any real advantages to the Torch plug with the three prongs over the BPR7EIX? Probably gonna just throw the iridiums in but would like to hear everyone else's thoughts on it.


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

Those generators are OEM'd in China so those plugs most likely came from the factory, not Westinghouse.

I changed to an NGK iridium and kept the Torch as spare. I have used the Torch at least a few hours to know enough that it is working fine before relegating it as a backup plug. I have read that since LP burns hotter, conventional copper-electrode plugs doesn't last long. It's probably just anecdotal but I needed to keep a spare plug anyway.


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## LaSwamp (Mar 16, 2021)

The plug switch was probably due to issues they were having with the original plug when burning LGP. The iridium plug would be a nice upgrade. I use only gasoline so I'm not using iridium plugs in my generators.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

OrlyP said:


> Those generators are OEM'd in China so those plugs most likely came from the factory, not Westinghouse.
> 
> I changed to an NGK iridium and kept the Torch as spare. I have used the Torch at least a few hours to know enough that it is working fine before relegating it as a backup plug. I have read that since LP burns hotter, conventional copper-electrode plugs doesn't last long. It's probably just anecdotal but I needed to keep a spare plug anyway.


are you running natural gas? Wondering if I should lower the gap on the plug down to .020 or just leave it at .030. It's running great as is - I would like it to be able to run both natural gas or gasoline so I was thinking of going right in the middle at .025?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

ajnuzzi said:


> are you running natural gas? Wondering if I should lower the gap on the plug down to .020 or just leave it at .030. It's running great as is - I would like it to be able to run both natural gas or gasoline so I was thinking of going right in the middle at .025?


20-25 thou in inches is a good place...
20 thou is advanced more than 30 thou.
it will spark sooner.
so for NG it is a good thing at 20 thou to 22 thou.
and yes on the iridium on NG it rocks for sure!

and not so much on gasoline....

and iridium plug will last for years in an NG setup as a back up gen...
i would say change out every 3,300 hours to 5,000 hours on NG.
but check them every 1,000 hours just to be sure.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> 20-25 thou in inches is a good place...
> 20 thou is advanced more than 30 thou.
> it will spark sooner.
> so for NG it is a good thing at 20 thou to 22 thou.
> ...


I haven't touched the gap on the factory spark plug and it's running fine on both fuels as is. I wonder what would have more tolerance, NG or gasoline? In other words if I want to be able to run both fuels which one would function better with the plug slightly out of spec: gasoline at .020 or natural gas at .025?


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## OrlyP (Oct 19, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> are you running natural gas? Wondering if I should lower the gap on the plug down to .020 or just leave it at .030. It's running great as is - I would like it to be able to run both natural gas or gasoline so I was thinking of going right in the middle at .025?


Running on LP. Engine is smooth on the pre-gapped iridium plug. I think it's set to somewhere around 0.7mm (0.027 inches).


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

best to keep the gap at the right spec for gasoline.
unless you are running 93 oct or higher.
the higher the oct. the more advance it will stand.

and it has to do with flame kernel...
those tri tip setups shoot flame up not out to the side...
ask any big time drag racer about indexing spark plugs to gain a few thou in seconds in the 1/8 mile!


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> I have a few BPR7EIX plugs laying around


If you didn't already have those, then I would definitely check out the NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S ruthenium plugs. They are designed for turbo & supercharged engines which is a pretty harsh environment. Propane and NG also subject the plug to a much harsher environment than gasoline. Who knows, the ruthenium plug might last the life of the gen.








NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S Ruthenium HX Plug


NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S Spark Plug - Same Day Shipping. Free Returns. PayPal Accepted. Secure Online Ordering. Est. 1969.




www.ngk.com





You also mentioned that you switch from gasoline to NG. I do the same thing. I loan out my gen and so I have a plug gapped at .030 (spec for my unit) so that they can run it on gasoline. When running at my house on NG, I change to an iridium plug gapped at .020.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> If you didn't already have those, then I would definitely check out the NGK 92400 FR7BHX-S ruthenium plugs. They are designed for turbo & supercharged engines which is a pretty harsh environment. Propane and NG also subject the plug to a much harsher environment than gasoline. Who knows, the ruthenium plug might last the life of the gen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have any experience with the e3 plugs? Only reason I'm even looking at them is because they have the same tri pentode design as the stock plug that came with my generator. Can't seem to find much reliable information on them. It's either "they're great and do wonderful things" or "they'll make your engine run like crap". They're relatively inexpensive compared to the ngk iridiums. Considering my generator ran just fine on the Torch plugs it came with I'm probably not going to be able to tell a difference either way


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## GenKnot (Dec 20, 2021)

ajnuzzi said:


> They're relatively inexpensive compared to the ngk iridiums.


I think that says a lot about the E3. A good plug is not going to be inexpensive. And you generally can't re-gap them either.

Yes, the OEM Torch plugs will work fine...until they don't...and that usually happens when you really, really need the gen to work. They are okay as a backup plug.


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

GenKnot said:


> I think that says a lot about the E3. A good plug is not going to be inexpensive. And you generally can't re-gap them either.
> 
> Yes, the OEM Torch plugs will work fine...until they don't...and that usually happens when you really, really need the gen to work. They are okay as a backup plug.


I replaced the torch's with the NGK iridiums gapped at .025 and both fuels are running great. You're right those e3 plugs don't look as though you can gap them, same thing with the Torch's. In fact, one of the torch plugs looked like a prong was bent. I bought a pack of the e3's and am going to keep them as a spare although I doubt the generator will outlive the iridium plugs


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

iowagold said:


> best to keep the gap at the right spec for gasoline.
> unless you are running 93 oct or higher.
> the higher the oct. the more advance it will stand.
> 
> ...


Happened to have an outage last night for about 12 hours. I had gapped the NGK iridiums to .025 and when the power first went out I ran on gasoline for 2 hours until I switched over to NG for the rest of the night since it didn't come back on. Ran flawlessly on both fuels. Was really nice to get to see all the time and $$ I put in to these back up plans save the day.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

yup rewarding to have lights when things go bad!

and be able to live like no other!


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## anderep (9 mo ago)

i just bought a wgen12000df, will replace plug immediately. those Chinese plugs don't last long, plug failed on my westinghouse 2000i. just replace and toss in trash. thanks for the cross-reference.


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## wgoo199126 (2 mo ago)

ajnuzzi said:


> Happened to have an outage last night for about 12 hours. I had gapped the NGK iridiums to .025 and when the power first went out I ran on gasoline for 2 hours until I switched over to NG for the rest of the night since it didn't come back on. Ran flawlessly on both fuels. Was really nice to get to see all the time and $$ I put in to these back up plans save the day.


 were these the ones you used? *NGK Spark Plug Iridium-IX BPR7EIX NGK*


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## ajnuzzi (12 mo ago)

wgoo199126 said:


> were these the ones you used? *NGK Spark Plug Iridium-IX BPR7EIX NGK*


 Yup those are the ones I put in my wgen12000df running on natural gas. Work perfect


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## wgoo199126 (2 mo ago)

thats the one we bought and want to have a few extra in stock. Thanks!!!


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## Dutchy491 (Sep 18, 2019)

Be sure to buy plugs from a reputable retailer, preferably brick and mortar store. Lotsa NGK fakes online….😬


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