# ES6500K1- No Spark



## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

I have a ES6500 K1 that has no spark. The oil pressure light goes out seconds after cranking. I replaced the coil with new OEM Honda unit.. Still no spark.. Thoughts on what to try next?


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Common no-spark causes can be a faulty key switch or oil pressure switch. Disconnect the grounding wire from the keyswitch to the coil first to see if it runs then. Disconnect the oil switch next if the keyswitch wire isn't the issue.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Will do.. I've tried disconnecting the single black wire to the coil.. still no spark.
So next.. Disconnect the single wire going to the sensor in the block?


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

I thought since the oil light went out during cranking that the switch was OK .. I was wrong.. I disconnected the wire and now have spark.. and new spare coil pack.. 🤣


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

lol!
we have all been there on bad days!!

yea oil sensors are an issue!!
they are a engine saver if the gen is left unattended for hours on end..
but can be a real pain if they go bad.

you have to split the case to replace the oil switches on the hondas.
i wish they would go to a external replacement on them...


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Now that I have spark by disconnecting the oil sensor wire.. It will not start. Is a functioning sensor required to run ?
Cleaned the carb.. Fresh fuel.. And fuel bowl probe sensor is functioning by attaching 12 V.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

The schematic can be found on page 44 of the manual.


http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/manuals/31za0723.pdf


Going backward from the ground then thru the oil sensor via Yellow/Red wire (YR, not shown in the legend) to a seven pin plug that is doubled with a 5 pin plug. Leaving the plug it then connects to the Y/R wire at the oil pump lamp. The Y/R t's off and goes a 7 pin plug and changes to Y and goes to the Alert unit.
The schematic shows the OPS at rest, so you have to begin somewhere, so we have to back up from the Alert Unit but first we have to identify the Alert Unit wires.
BL/Y jumps to the switch and then goes to the Ignition Coil. and surprise surprise it is the power wire to the IC.
Now before we go further, there is a little item we have to address and that is what is happening in the switch?
Well, the start switch supplies power to the IC while the oil pressure is building.
Now if the oil pressure is building then it stands to reason that when the pressure increases the OPS opens. The Alert Unit would normally hold the voltage on the IC, but without the OPS it removes the voltage and stops the engine.
Pressure loss would then ground pin R/Y on the Alert Unit, therefore allowing it to run only at start then shut down while giving you the impression that you have a spark at least until the motor spins and the oil pressure shows to be missing.
Maybe the OPS must be in the circuit to set the Alert Unit to begin with.
I guess there is a way around the Alert unit, but I lack the sequence and writeup from Honda to put it together and they only know what is going on inside the Alert Unit. Probably timers etc. I would Ohm the switch and see if it is open or closed.
You would be advised to replace the OPS and get things back in order.

(But we need to know what is happening with the Y/G, R/W and BL.
Any of these faults would stop the spark by removing the voltage, but you lack these faults.)
Or in your case you have removed the OPS wires and that bugs me to no end.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

ToolLover said:


> The schematic can be found on page 44 of the manual.
> 
> 
> http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/manuals/31za0723.pdf
> ...


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

ToolLover.. Video shows slight fuel ignition when start key released.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Site stated video uploaded 100%.. don't see it attached on my end.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

Video???


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

I tried to attach a video of it firing when start key released (only sputtered a couple times) but it would not attach to my reply.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

@Millwoodva: The connection between the key switch and the AU by passes the Alert Unit and is what allows the start for just a second or two. Then the Alert Unit removes the power to the IC because the OPS is missing. Read and try to understand the explanation above.


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

Millwoodva said:


> Now that I have spark by disconnecting the oil sensor wire.. It will not start. Is a functioning sensor required to run ?
> Cleaned the carb.. Fresh fuel.. And fuel bowl probe sensor is functioning by attaching 12 V.


fuel valve at the carb bowl.
it is part of the auto shut down.
have you cleaned the carb yet?
and or verified fuel at the carb?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

have you tried to run this on lp?
take an lp torch (do not light it!!)
and stick the torch head to the carb inlet and see if it fires.

make sure to have a spark indicator inline when testing to make sure the spark is working all of the time!!

if this is a oil pump pressure oil setup the oil sensor is reverse.
as in you have to have ground signal for spark to work.

we need to know what is missing during the crank and start up
this is basic fuel, air , spark setup.

click here for the test tools page with spark tester
the lisle inline spark tester is a must.
also this is a twin right?
get two of the inline spark testers so you can look at both coil outputs


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

ToolLover said:


> @Millwoodva: The connection between the key switch and the AU by passes the Alert Unit and is what allows the start for just a second or two. Then the Alert Unit removes the power to the IC because the OPS is missing. Read and try to understand the explanation above.


Trying to put my head around it.. disconnect B


wire fromj


ToolLover said:


> @Millwoodva: The connection between the key switch and the AU by passes the Alert Unit and is what allows the start for just a second or two. Then the Alert Unit removes the power to the IC because the OPS is missing. Read and try to understand the explanation above.


Trying to put my head around it.. disconnect BL/Y from key switch to Alert unit?


iowagold said:


> fuel valve at the carb bowl.
> it is part of the auto shut down.
> have you cleaned the carb yet?
> and or verified fuel at the carb?


Removed fuel bowl valve and tested.. plunger actuates with 12V..
Carb cleaned.
Fuel carb as I put my palm over the mouth to act as choke.. Palm is saturated with fuel..
Tried propane torch.. not lite.. Would not fire.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

, post:




Trying to put my head around it.. disconnect BL/Y from key switch to Alert unit?

Removed fuel bowl valve and tested.. plunger actuates with 12V..
Carb cleaned.
Fuel carb as I put my palm over the mouth to act as choke.. Palm is saturated with fuel..
Tried propane torch.. not lite.. Would not fire.
[/QUOTE]
Also ground the oil sensor wire.. would not fire.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

iowagold said:


> have you tried to run this on lp?
> take an lp torch (do not light it!!)
> and stick the torch head to the carb inlet and see if it fires.
> 
> ...


New OEM coil installed


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

but do you have spark indicators on both spark plugs?
we need to verify that spark is working all of the time..

have you done a compression test yet?
good idea if you have not.
some of the auto parts stores have them on the rental tool plan so it is just a cost up front that is refunded when you return the tool.
or see the repair tools page to buy a good compression tester 
click here for the generator repair tools page
there is an otc unit that works well 
i have 2 of them for doing the 2 cyl units at the same time.

compression should be at least 65 psi to 145 psi depending on the compression relief.
oh yea have you set the valves yet??
and it is good to verify that the valves are working right as well.

if you have spark and still no fire..
maybe the time belt has an issue?


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

iowagold said:


> but do you have spark indicators on both spark plugs?
> we need to verify that spark is working all of the time..
> 
> have you done a compression test yet?
> ...


Compession 115 psi both cylinders. Inline spark testers show spark while cranking.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Could charging coil behind flywheel be at fault?


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## iowagold (Jan 22, 2020)

is it checking bad?


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

I was asking if the charging coil could cause my no spark issue... I would need to procure a puller to remove the flywheel.


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

I bought a puller from Harbor Freight.
You will need to remove the fan bolts, take one to Lowes or Home Depot and buy long bolts so the puller can reach the fly wheel.


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Will do.. won't get back to it for a week or so..


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## Millwoodva (Sep 2, 2020)

Just now getting back to this. Appears it as jumped timing..
The crank gear was packed with dirt allowing the belt to slip.
There are 2 sets timing marks on the Cam gear.. Which do I use?
There is no blue paint indicator on either set of marks.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

Millwoodva said:


> There are 2 sets timing marks on the Cam gear.. Which do I use?


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## ToolLover (Jan 13, 2020)

@tabora: When I had my ES6500 opened up I was careful to not let the pulleys move when I replaced the belt, but here is a question: What if the belt had broken? How would you know which marks to use as there are two sets of marks on the cam shaft pulley and that puzzles me.


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## tabora (Sep 6, 2018)

ToolLover said:


> @tabora: When I had my ES6500 opened up I was careful to not let the pulleys move when I replaced the belt, but here is a question: What if the belt had broken? How would you know which marks to use as there are two sets of marks on the cam shaft pulley and that puzzles me.


One of the T marks is supposed to have a blue marking on it as shown in his video. I've been told that's the one that should be lined up with the arrow, however looking at the relative sizes of the crank/cam pulleys, I believe that either one would be correct, especially since the shop manual page does not specify it. It looks like a single revolution of the crank will bring you to the other T mark. 4 cycle two cylinder, so I think that makes sense. Either one can be cylinder #1.


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